Rippetoe's Fundamental Flaw
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I like Wendler's book better. Just my 2 cents.
I strive try to stay North of Vag and very PC at the same time.
What page is that on? :bigsmile:
Page 69. Totally serious!0 -
I like Wendler's book better. Just my 2 cents.
I strive try to stay North of Vag and very PC at the same time.
What page is that on? :bigsmile:
Page 69. Totally serious!
:drinker:0 -
Rip says a lot of "offensive" things that are clearly meant as jokes, but don't seem to be coming up in here...
I don't recall the exact reference (I think it was to bench pressing with an open handed grip) but he recommended against using that grip and followed it up with something like "If you are going to do that, please have the courtesy to use the bench nearest the door of your gym so when the paramedics arrive to haul you out in an ambulance it doesn't disturb anyone else's workout."
Nobody is upset by the offensiveness of this post, when, in reality, if you've been injured while lifting and had to get medical assistance, the idea that your biggest concern should be to not disturb others is pretty offensive, but in this case we can all recognize it as a joke.
I see most of the statements that show up in this thread in the same light, his actual view, followed by something else meant as a joke.
My takeaway from the thread is that if you want to be offended, you'll find something to be offended by.
I think the problem isn't that he's humorously insulting. It's that he's blatantly sexist and homophobic when doing so. I realize he's an older guy, and an older Texan at that, but it's not really cool in today's culture.
Calling a guy a *kitten* or girl as an insult isn't really funny. It was funny 20 years ago, but it's not funny now. It's just offensive to anyone with a sense of dignity.
In other words, the problem isn't that Rip thinks anyone is actually gay for wearing gloves. The problem is that "gay" is Rip's idea of a funny insult.
I guess I'm just not bothered by that... In life I've dealt with a lot of people who use slurs matter of factly in their daily life without trying to be offensive about it, its just the way they speak. Sure, its not the most enlightened way to communicate, but that's what they know.
Reading Rip's book, I definitely never got the idea that he was against women in the weight room. Hell, probably 30% of his example pictures in the book were of women properly performing some sort of heavy lift. Coming from a non-lifting background, I was surprised by how many women were featured in the pictures and wondered if he was going out of his way to show a higher proportion of women to make the book more "appealing" to that demographic (pretty sure that isn't the case now), but I definitely don't think it means he has something against women.0 -
I believe the book would have been better served with tighter editing and less humor and meandering. As something akin to a reference book it could have made better stylistic choices.0
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It doesn't bother me when someone calls someone else a gay or a girl or whatever as a dig depending on who is saying it and if they are meaning to hurt them. I know a lot of offensive jokers (including myself) who will say something bad but mean well, and hope to God nobody else is getting hurt by it and takes it as a joke and either 1ups me a burn or they just shake their head at me in a "I can't believe you just said that" kind of way. But this guy seems to say it because he believes it. In other words, it's insulting to wear gloves, so you're a girl...it's insulting to do whatever specific thing, so you're gay. This is purposely meant to insult women and gays and the people being insulted. If I'm joking around with someone (that I know well) and I'm trying to motivate them and say something like you lift like a girl for example, I know girls that can outlift them, and I do not care if they can't lift much. Thus, it's not insulting to be a girl, it's not insulting to lift less weight. I have nothing against girls, I just have a bad sense of humor that a lot of my friends find hilarious...I don't think Rippetoe is trying to make someone laugh.Rip says a lot of "offensive" things that are clearly meant as jokes, but don't seem to be coming up in here...
I don't recall the exact reference (I think it was to bench pressing with an open handed grip) but he recommended against using that grip and followed it up with something like "If you are going to do that, please have the courtesy to use the bench nearest the door of your gym so when the paramedics arrive to haul you out in an ambulance it doesn't disturb anyone else's workout."
Nobody is upset by the offensiveness of this post, when, in reality, if you've been injured while lifting and had to get medical assistance, the idea that your biggest concern should be to not disturb others is pretty offensive, but in this case we can all recognize it as a joke.
I see most of the statements that show up in this thread in the same light, his actual view, followed by something else meant as a joke.
My takeaway from the thread is that if you want to be offended, you'll find something to be offended by.
I think the problem isn't that he's humorously insulting. It's that he's blatantly sexist and homophobic when doing so. I realize he's an older guy, and an older Texan at that, but it's not really cool in today's culture.
Calling a guy a *kitten* or girl as an insult isn't really funny. It was funny 20 years ago, but it's not funny now. It's just offensive to anyone with a sense of dignity.
In other words, the problem isn't that Rip thinks anyone is actually gay for wearing gloves. The problem is that "gay" is Rip's idea of a funny insult.0 -
Rip says a lot of "offensive" things that are clearly meant as jokes, but don't seem to be coming up in here...
This is true. This isn't about whether he's offensive per se. That, in and of itself, is irrelevant. It isn't relevant that he's "mean" as taunto said, nor do I feel that it's relevant that his message is "coarse" as dbmata said.
Discussing what's 'faggy' and effeminate as support of his assertions about weightlifting directly affiliates his prejudices with his recommendations. It's a stupid thing to do, it is directly counterproductive with respect to his life's work, and it perpetuates the sorts of attitudes that some commenters in the thread are displaying that people need to sack up.
Please trust that I needn't sac up; this is an academic concern over which I won't be crying myself to sleep tonight.
To Johnnythan - I wasn't deliberately misinterpreting you; I was asking for clarification in good faith because I didn't believe that you meant what I thought you said. Thanks for clarifying. I believe that Rippetoe and Irvine were successful despite their attitudes, not because of them. That's how phenomenally talented they are. Competence speaks for itself, it doesn't need a stupid bow-tie and clown shoes.0 -
And yet, no one has addressed the hilarious truncation of his screen name on the MFP forum.0
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Funny because I thought his biggest flaw was his complete unwilling to take on board anything that's happening in exercise science over the last 10 years and resorting to telling anyone who offers an alternative to his methods a *pu$$y* despite what evidence may be provided
His latest article on t-nation in relation to single leg training was quite possibly the biggest pile of absolute poop I have ever read.0 -
Competence speaks for itself, it doesn't need a stupid bow-tie and clown shoes.
Except it often doesn't.
Only the people who already know what's up really notice competence. GI3 and JJ would not have started a virtual revolution in diving if not for GI3's attitude and volume, despite their unquestionable competence and achievement.
The other side of the coin is that GI3 and JJ probably would not have accomplished what they accomplished without GI3's attitude and dogmatism.0 -
Funny because I thought his biggest flaw was his complete unwilling to take on board anything that's happening in exercise science over the last 10 years and resorting to telling anyone who offers an alternative to his methods a *pu$$y* despite what evidence may be provided
His latest article on t-nation in relation to single leg training was quite possibly the biggest pile of absolute poop I have ever read.
I never heard of this. tl;dr Summary? My first thoughts when single anythings pop up is balance practice.0 -
And yet, no one has addressed the hilarious truncation of his screen name on the MFP forum.
It was funnier before the mods made me change it yesterday. Used to be luscious_cocktail.Except it often doesn't.
Only the people who already know what's up really notice competence. GI3 and JJ would not have started a virtual revolution in diving if not for GI3's attitude and volume, despite their unquestionable competence and achievement.
The other side of the coin is that GI3 and JJ probably would not have accomplished what they accomplished without GI3's attitude and dogmatism.
This is an unprovable but interesting question. How many great minds were overlooked because they refused to make spectacles of themselves? How many relatively mediocre minds achieved spokesperson status because they were audacious? Hard to say.
If this entire discourse could be boiled down, I believe his asides substantially detract from his message - and I believe that you think his message would be lost without that audacity.
I can appreciate that as a fundamental disagreement on two valid possibilities.0 -
It was funnier before the mods made me change it yesterday. Used to be luscious_cocktail.
They did? I'm disappointed. I was all inspired to try and come up with something clever myself.0 -
And yet, no one has addressed the hilarious truncation of his screen name on the MFP forum.
It was funnier before the mods made me change it yesterday. Used to be luscious_cocktail.Except it often doesn't.
Only the people who already know what's up really notice competence. GI3 and JJ would not have started a virtual revolution in diving if not for GI3's attitude and volume, despite their unquestionable competence and achievement.
The other side of the coin is that GI3 and JJ probably would not have accomplished what they accomplished without GI3's attitude and dogmatism.
This is an unprovable but interesting question. How many great minds were overlooked because they refused to make spectacles of themselves? How many relatively mediocre minds achieved spokesperson status because they were audacious? Hard to say.
If this entire discourse could be boiled down, I believe his asides substantially detract from his message - and I believe that you think his message would be lost without that audacity.
I can appreciate that as a fundamental disagreement on two valid possibilities.
Edison v Tesla comes to mind.0 -
Edison v Tesla comes to mind.
Bat**** crazy brilliant inventor versus brilliant businessman and shameless self-promoter. Tesla was pretty freakin' audacious himself but I think that principally his craziness is what left him destitute in the end.0 -
Edison v Tesla comes to mind.
Bat**** crazy brilliant inventor versus brilliant businessman and shameless self-promoter. Tesla was pretty freakin' audacious himself but I think that principally his craziness is what left him destitute in the end.
It's just something that came to my mind. Not completely applicable but worth thinking about.
Even great ideas rarely get very far without someone promoting them. Particularly if they run contrary to accepted wisdom.0 -
OP--thanks for protecting us from bad old Rippetoe, but as a woman reading his book, I never felt insulted or neglected or patronized.
Yes, I noticed the macho line about gloves, but it made me laugh when I read it. I appreciated, however, that he adjusted his advice for female anatomy where appropriate, and that he uses pictures of a female model just about as often as a male. I frankly felt more patronized (and pandered to) by the authors of The New Rules of Lifting for Women.
In case you are wondering whether I just don't know any better, I might mention that I am a professional woman with a fairly nuanced appreciation of feminist issues.0 -
Eh, I could careless about his personal opinions............................I'm more interested in his exercise philosophy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But imagine how much more fit you would be if matched your bag to your gloves. Bro, do you even accessorize?0 -
Eh, I could careless about his personal opinions............................I'm more interested in his exercise philosophy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But imagine how much more fit you would be if matched your bag to your gloves. Bro, do you even accessorize?
LOL0 -
Yo, I'm gonna let you finish, but gloves do weaken your grip. Aight? Aight.0
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I'm pretty sure once you pass the age of 15 no ones comments should hurt your feelings anymore, regardless of what they are, unless it's someone very close to you intending to hurt you. People need to get some thicker skin and let the stuff they consider to be BS roll off their backs.0
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