Eating Clean - No Such Thing

1568101118

Replies

  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    @OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

    Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

    Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

    Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?
  • kellyskitties
    kellyskitties Posts: 475 Member
    2v8lp1g.gif

    I got the drinks and popcorn - want to sit down front?
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member


    I've seen a lot of posts on this forum by people who bash "clean eaters" and look like bodybuilders. That's all fine and dandy. But I couldn't give two craps about the fact that they reached their fitness goals. I care about what life will be like for them at 70 or 80.

    Logically a lot of us will be dead due to things unrelated to actual health. Just throwing that out there.

    Given my preferred means of transportation that will more than likely apply to me as well. But, I like to plan for the unlikely event that I will not have died in a motorcycle wreck before then.

    I'm not sure I see the point in living my life in such a way that on the off change I make it to 80 I'm slightly more healty than the 80 year old lady in the bed next to me in the nursing home.

    Also I'm not sure the way I eat means I'll be any less healthy to 80, but if you have some studies or something to contrary I'd love to see them.
  • kellijauch
    kellijauch Posts: 379 Member
    Some people are concerned about more than fat loss. Eating crap food at a deficit will indeed cause weight loss but it doesn't necessarily equal physical health.

    ^ this Exactly! Skinny does not mean Healthy. If all you want is to be skinny, sure you can eat all the McDonalds you want and work out all day and that should do it. If you want to be healthy, maybe you should look into not pumping your body full of chemicals. It's pretty simple.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Some people are concerned about more than fat loss. Eating crap food at a deficit will indeed cause weight loss but it doesn't necessarily equal physical health.

    ^ this Exactly! Skinny does not mean Healthy. If all you want is to be skinny, sure you can eat all the McDonalds you want and work out all day and that should do it. If you want to be healthy, maybe you should look into not pumping your body full of chemicals. It's pretty simple.

    Can you quantify what you mean by healthy? In other words, how do you determine whether someone is healthy without looking at the food they eat?
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Some people are concerned about more than fat loss. Eating crap food at a deficit will indeed cause weight loss but it doesn't necessarily equal physical health.

    ^ this Exactly! Skinny does not mean Healthy. If all you want is to be skinny, sure you can eat all the McDonalds you want and work out all day and that should do it. If you want to be healthy, maybe you should look into not pumping your body full of chemicals. It's pretty simple.

    If you don't pump your body full of chemicals you'll die, which doesn't seem very healthy
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    @OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

    Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

    Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

    Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

    I'd love to see any credible sources for these claims as well.
  • Mia_RagazzaTosta
    Mia_RagazzaTosta Posts: 4,885 Member
    Some people are concerned about more than fat loss. Eating crap food at a deficit will indeed cause weight loss but it doesn't necessarily equal physical health.

    ^ this Exactly! Skinny does not mean Healthy. If all you want is to be skinny, sure you can eat all the McDonalds you want and work out all day and that should do it. If you want to be healthy, maybe you should look into not pumping your body full of chemicals. It's pretty simple.

    So if I ate "clean" at a deficit and stayed in bed all day I would be ripped?

    I fail to see your point. Being healthy and being fit are two different things. People successfully eat McDonald's, work out, and have bangin' bodies.
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
    [/quote]
    Can you quantify what you mean by healthy? In other words, how do you determine whether someone is healthy without looking at the food they eat?
    [/quote]

    I'm interested to hear also. Just want to see where I stand on this sliding scale of health...
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    @OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

    Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

    Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

    Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

    Let me ask you this: By your logic, a person could live entirely on Donuts and use whey protein shake mix to supplement the lack of protein in donuts and see no adverse health effects after years upon years of doing so, provided they matched their ideal carb/fat/protein profile. Is that what you're saying?
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    @OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

    Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

    Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

    Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

    Let me ask you this: By your logic, a person could live entirely on Donuts and use whey protein shake mix to supplement the lack of protein in donuts and see no adverse health effects after years upon years of doing so, provided they matched their ideal carb/fat/protein profile. Is that what you're saying?

    That's not in any way an answer to my question. I'm in a good mood so I'll answer it anyway. The answer is no, because donuts and whey do not contain all the essential nutrients. The diet would be severely lacking in fiber, vitamins, and minerals. I suppose the method of donut preparation would determine whether the fatty acid profile would be sufficient to meet essential nutrient needs, as well.

    I'm asking if you can quantify what you mean by health effects, and give some evidence to back up the claims you are making. Alternatively, you could provide a method and metric by which one can determine their personal health/risk of disease. Either would be acceptable to me.
  • PhattiPhat
    PhattiPhat Posts: 349 Member
    So if I ate "clean" at a deficit and stayed in bed all day I would be ripped?

    I fail to see your point. Being healthy and being fit are two different things. People successfully eat McDonald's, work out, and have bangin' bodies.

    61a.gif
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    I am not saying or advocating the idea of giving up foods like donuts or Doritos completely. Hell, I do it myself as evidenced by the Reese's in today's diary (and my Doritos addiction). But admitting that there are health benefits to eating those sorts of things in moderation vs. living entirely off of them is common sense. Not really something you should need a scientific study to prove. My guess is the reason there aren't many out there is because it's a matter of common sense.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    there are health benefits to eating those sorts of things in moderation vs. living entirely off of them i

    Oh, so you were talking about a comparison that absolutely no one was making.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Here's a great panel from a long comic The Oatmeal just put out about why he's a runner.

    running_6eating1.png
  • btwinkles
    btwinkles Posts: 54 Member
    2v8lp1g.gif


    love it!! Hysterical!!
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    there are health benefits to eating those sorts of things in moderation vs. living entirely off of them i

    Oh, so you were talking about a comparison that absolutely no one was making.

    Maybe I'm the idiot for not reading in between the lines, but whenever this argument pops up about clean eating vs. fitting your macros, that is the exact extreme example of both that pop into my head. IIFYM = living off of donuts and whey because macros = c/p/f, and when taken literally it can assume ONLY those numbers matter and that there is no such thing as "quality" of food or other essential nutrients. By that same token, I take clean eating as meaning nothing but fresh fruits, veggies, and meats, which I also don't buy into.

    Again, maybe I'm an idiot here, but I always see people such as yourself and others arguing that the idea of "making your macros fit" without making a point of stressing other essential nutrients, quality of food, and other such things, as meaning "you could live off of ANYTHING as long as you make c/p/f fit without ANY adverse effects." After all, If It Fits Your Macros. That's what it says, right?

    Anyway, if you feel that sort of thing is common sense and shouldn't have to be said (and I can somewhat agree there), I apologize. But in any point, "processed foods" is a blanket term that could mean anything from canned vegetables to Doritos or Donuts. And I guess that's the whole problem with these arguments. We argue about terms that could be taken a number of ways without specifying exactly how we mean them.
  • kellijauch
    kellijauch Posts: 379 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.
  • deb3129
    deb3129 Posts: 1,294 Member
    I'm not telling people to go stuff their face with unhealthy food, no. All I'm saying is feel free to mix it up every once in a while. Eat foods that love. If you love eating these "clean" foods every single day, then go ahead. But most people I know who are dieting don't do it this way, because cravings eventually do kick in and mentally you'll start caving in, trust me. It's easy to say "Oh I've been eating clean for 7 days", that's cool, try doing it for the rest of your life.

    I have been eating clean for about 16 months, and the cravings for the sugary stuff have gone away. I don't see them suddenly returning. I also love what I am eating, and plan on doing it this way forever. Not judging anyone who doesn't, but it has made an amazing difference in my life.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    IIFYM = living off of donuts

    No. IIFYM = eating whatever foods make you happy while making sure they fit into good, scientifically valid nutrient goals. Those nutrient goals can, and should, include things like protein, fat, fiber, vitamins, and minerals.

    You can do IIFYM while eating "clean" if you want to for some reason. IIFYM isn't about making people eat Taco Bell if they don't want to.
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    1339427125641.gif
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    IIFYM = living off of donuts

    No. IIFYM = eating whatever foods make you happy while making sure they fit into good, scientifically valid nutrient goals. Those nutrient goals can, and should, include things like protein, fat, fiber, vitamins, and minerals.

    You can do IIFYM while eating "clean" if you want to for some reason. IIFYM isn't about making people eat Taco Bell if they don't want to.

    Taco Bell is gross. I also don't like donuts or poptarts.

    And yet. Still doing that whole IIFYM thing.
  • kellijauch
    kellijauch Posts: 379 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    IIFYM = living off of donuts

    No. IIFYM = eating whatever foods make you happy while making sure they fit into good, scientifically valid nutrient goals. Those nutrient goals can, and should, include things like protein, fat, fiber, vitamins, and minerals.

    You can do IIFYM while eating "clean" if you want to for some reason. IIFYM isn't about making people eat Taco Bell if they don't want to.

    Taco Bell is gross. I also don't like donuts or poptarts.

    And yet. Still doing that whole IIFYM thing.

    Exactly. I love Taco Bell so I eat it regularly. You don't like Taco Bell. I don't care whether you eat Taco Bell or not.

    If you tried to tell me Taco Bell is killing my insides, will give me cancer, will prevent me from getting abs, etc., then I'd have issue with that. But you're not telling me that, so we're cool.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

    So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    IIFYM = living off of donuts

    No. IIFYM = eating whatever foods make you happy while making sure they fit into good, scientifically valid nutrient goals. Those nutrient goals can, and should, include things like protein, fat, fiber, vitamins, and minerals.

    You can do IIFYM while eating "clean" if you want to for some reason. IIFYM isn't about making people eat Taco Bell if they don't want to.

    Taco Bell is gross. I also don't like donuts or poptarts.

    And yet. Still doing that whole IIFYM thing.

    Exactly. I love Taco Bell so I eat it regularly. You don't like Taco Bell. I don't care whether you eat Taco Bell or not.

    If you tried to tell me Taco Bell is killing my insides, will give me cancer, will prevent me from getting abs, etc., then I'd have issue with that. But you're not telling me that, so we're cool.

    Good sir, I would even buy you Taco Bell

    But then I'm weird. I don't believe that just because I don't eat something no one else should eat it either.
  • kellijauch
    kellijauch Posts: 379 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

    So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?

    Don't you have anything better to do with your life than berate people for their individual opinions? If you wanna eat big macs all day and die of a heart attack at age 50, be my guest, it'll be one less jerk in the world.
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

    My health markers are excellent. I eat ice cream, pop tarts, corn bread, cereal...daily.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

    Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

    No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

    So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?

    Don't you have anything better to do with your life than berate people for their individual opinions? If you wanna eat big macs all day and die of a heart attack at age 50, be my guest, it'll be one less jerk in the world.

    So you have no answer, and you blatantly insult me while saying so.
  • Seefylol
    Seefylol Posts: 197
    I'm not telling people to go stuff their face with unhealthy food, no. All I'm saying is feel free to mix it up every once in a while. Eat foods that love. If you love eating these "clean" foods every single day, then go ahead. But most people I know who are dieting don't do it this way, because cravings eventually do kick in and mentally you'll start caving in, trust me. It's easy to say "Oh I've been eating clean for 7 days", that's cool, try doing it for the rest of your life.

    I have been eating clean for about 16 months, and the cravings for the sugary stuff have gone away. I don't see them suddenly returning. I also love what I am eating, and plan on doing it this way forever. Not judging anyone who doesn't, but it has made an amazing difference in my life.

    I liked reading this. Nothing nasty, nothing one sided. It was just the truth and experience. This is what people should say in forums so thank you! =)

    I have my Dr look at myfitnesspal diary as well as asked them to set up my macros. And i defiantly could tell the difference in how i felt. Before eating 1 meal a day which would be junk food. And snacking all day on energy drinks and candy... Now to eating fresh meals, salads, real meat 6 small meals a day. I don't always eat like this. I had a cheese burger a few weeks ago and still felt okay. So i just eat healthier i guess... but for me that did change how i felt mentally and physically. I also ate some malteesers last week. =D but only some..not the whole packet as i might have a year ago.

    Hope what ever you all do works for you. =D

    Snacking all day on candy and energy drinks. Of course you're going to feel physically and mentally fitter after stopping this, anyone would.