THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories

CrankMeUp

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

nope.

you would NOT be the same size.

CrankMeUp

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Lose 100 lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle? What are you talking about?

Strength training is the difference between losing 150 lbs of fat and 50 lbs of muscle vs 190 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle.

Which do you think looks better? The 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass, or the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass?

exactly.

wareagle8706

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.

That was seriously the best thing you could've possibly said. I appreciate you solidifying what I already thought by making this post. Makes my day better.

Have a good one.

__Di__

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Use a tape measure to measure waist, chest, hips, thighs, arms, calfs.

If you are losing fat, but putting on muscle, if the scales remain the same, your measurements will be different to what they were.

Tape measure and scales are wonderful tools.

jonnythan

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

Calculate your BMR. Add in an activity factor for non-exercise activity. If you're mostly sedentary, this is 1.2. Add in exercise calories, Subtract 20% from this number.

Bam. Calorie deficit.

Example: if you're 30 years old, 400 lbs, 5'10 and male, your BMR is around 3200. Sedentary lifestyle means 3840 normal daily calorie burn. Subtract 20% and you have a 3050 daily calorie goal. Add exercise back on top of that. Don't add calories for strength training (or add some small amount; I do about 50 calories per hour).

Done.

BTW, the 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass will have a waist several inches smaller than the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass. The former guy will look strong; the latter will look fat.

phjorg1

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.

That was seriously the best thing you could've possibly said. I appreciate you solidifying what I already thought by making this post. Makes my day better.

Have a good one.

In fairness I tried to comprehend what you were trying to say too. Read it three times and still have no clue..

Zaniejane

I've been looking for a reason to buy a heart rate monitor. I thought it might encourage me to power clean my house. Plus I like to buy new toys:(.

ShannonMpls

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

First of all, you think you'll gain 100 pounds of muscle? Spoiler alert: you won't.

Second, it's completely possible to quantify the number of calories you burn. Keep track of what you eat, including weighing/measuring food as appropriate. Keep track of your weight over a period of time. If your weight goes up, you are eating at a surplus. If your weight goes down, you are eating at a deficit. Adjust your intake to accomplish the result you are seeking.

It's all an estimate anyway. Nutrition labels on foods estimate, HRMs estimate, TDEE calculators estimate. Our bodies do not all follow formulas precisely. It's all an experiment that requires you to adjust based on real-life results.

Faulty HRM formulas are not an excuse to give up or eat an unnecessarily low calorie amount or avoid weight training because calories burned are hard to quantify.

jonnythan

I've been looking for a reason to buy a heart rate monitor. I thought it might encourage me to power clean my house. Plus I like to buy new toys:(.

Get a Fitbit instead. I have found them to be extremely encouraging and very accurate for anything that involves being on your feet.

steveofb

then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.

Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??

Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.

He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.

Is this a joke or troll or something?

Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?

No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.

I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.

This is getting out of hand.

Set how much you want to lose a week. Find your calorie goal to hit that number. Track everything you eat. Track calorie burn with your HRM. Eat back what you burn or don't if it is part of your deficit. If you lose weight corresponding to your calorie goal you got it right. If after a couple of weeks you are not losing the weight as fast as you want, you are just maintaining, or you are adding weight then something isn't adding up. Adjust your calorie goal again, then repeat. Eventually you will get it right.

MFP and HRMs are tools used to help you attain your goals. I can't count how many times I grab a wrench, put it on a bolt and find out it is the wrong size and have to go grab a different one. Weight loss is similar.

Track everything. It doesn't matter if they are just estimates. As long as you use the same estimates you can track to the path to your goal you want by adjusting. Yes, your HRM might be off by 50%, but you still have a number to use to adjust your caloric intake. Remember, weight loss isn't a constant thing. You are trying to hit a constantly moving target so having consistent information for your inputs is more important than worrying about being exact.

Just my two cents. --Steve

phjorg1

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

First of all, you think you'll gain 100 pounds of muscle? Spoiler alert: you won't.

Second, it's completely possible to quantify the number of calories you burn. Keep track of what you eat, including weighing/measuring food as appropriate. Keep track of your weight over a period of time. If your weight goes up, you are eating at a surplus. If your weight goes down, you are eating at a deficit. Adjust your intake to accomplish the result you are seeking.

It's all an estimate anyway. Nutrition labels on foods estimate, HRMs estimate, TDEE calculators estimate. Our bodies do not all follow formulas precisely. It's all an experiment that requires you to adjust based on real-life results.

Faulty HRM formulas are not an excuse to give up or eat an unnecessarily low calorie amount or avoid weight training because calories burned are hard to quantify.

Add size to weight as well.. For a new lifter it's possible for weight to stay the same or go up, and size to go down. If this happens then you are also in calorie deficit.

ShannonMpls

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

First of all, you think you'll gain 100 pounds of muscle? Spoiler alert: you won't.

Second, it's completely possible to quantify the number of calories you burn. Keep track of what you eat, including weighing/measuring food as appropriate. Keep track of your weight over a period of time. If your weight goes up, you are eating at a surplus. If your weight goes down, you are eating at a deficit. Adjust your intake to accomplish the result you are seeking.

It's all an estimate anyway. Nutrition labels on foods estimate, HRMs estimate, TDEE calculators estimate. Our bodies do not all follow formulas precisely. It's all an experiment that requires you to adjust based on real-life results.

Faulty HRM formulas are not an excuse to give up or eat an unnecessarily low calorie amount or avoid weight training because calories burned are hard to quantify.

Add size to weight as well.. For a new lifter it's possible for weight to stay the same or go up, and size to go down. If this happens then you are also in calorie deficit.

You're right.

JewelsinBigD

Yikes- so what should I use to calculate workouts like BodyPump?

heybales

The max I ever hit in BodyCombat was 197 (mild dizziness, needed to catch my breath for a few seconds). Should I just use that? Mini enhanced formula posted above gives me less than 220 minus age. Otherwise I suppose I could try the bike thing, thanks! I just don't do much spinning or using the elliptical at the moment.

I use a max observed HR of 194bpm... all the formulas have me at about 183-184 for MHR, but I pushed it to 194 at the end of a 10km race where I PRd. I also know my LT sits high too - around 165bpm, which is about 85% of 194, so just about right. I can sustain 165-168bpm for over an hour, which if the formulas were accurate for me, would have me at well over 90% HRMax, which isn't likely.

My tested HRmax is 194, way off the 220-age (44).
Test LT is 177, so 91% of HRmax. So when you train the upper end, you aren't tied to that 85%. So yes, I'll bet you are at 90% HRmax for LT level.

I'd say if you pushed it to 194 at the end of a 10K where your legs were tired - your HRmax is actually higher. The reason why HRmax tests are fast ramping is because when the muscles get tired you cannot push the HR as high. So you have to do it fast enough to get there, but slow enough for steady HR increase.
Also you get cardio drift going that long, plus heat and stress elevated HR going that long.

peeaanuut

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

Calculate your BMR. Add in an activity factor for non-exercise activity. If you're mostly sedentary, this is 1.2. Add in exercise calories, Subtract 20% from this number.

Bam. Calorie deficit.

Example: if you're 30 years old, 400 lbs, 5'10 and male, your BMR is around 3200. Sedentary lifestyle means 3840 normal daily calorie burn. Subtract 20% and you have a 3050 daily calorie goal. Add exercise back on top of that. Don't add calories for strength training (or add some small amount; I do about 50 calories per hour).

Done.

BTW, the 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass will have a waist several inches smaller than the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass. The former guy will look strong; the latter will look fat.

I have never been under 200 lbs so I just dont see myself ever getting there. I wouldnt even begin to understand what that looks like. Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

PikaKnight

Yikes- so what should I use to calculate workouts like BodyPump?

Just use your HRM. Personally, I do -30% to try to account for inaccuracies...or use MFP's calculations (whichever is lower)

cmcollins001

....

Azdak

Yikes- so what should I use to calculate workouts like BodyPump?

For something like Body Pump, you could probably multiply your body wt in kg by 5 to get calories per hour. That would likely be as accurate as anything.

jonnythan

Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

4 hour gym sessions?

My recommendation is to spend about an hour doing strength training 3 times a week. That's 3 hours of gym time, total, per week.

That's it for gym time.

It is beneficial for you to get some cardio. I suggest doing something you enjoy, though at your size it may be difficult to do something like tennis or swimming. So just walk. Go walk around the mall for an hour 2 or 3 times a week. Anything that gets your heart rate up a bit for 2-4 hours total per week.

That's it. Done. Daily calorie deficit, some moderate cardio a couple times a week, and strength training a couple times a week.

cmeiron

. duplicate post