THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories

cmeiron

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

Calculate your BMR. Add in an activity factor for non-exercise activity. If you're mostly sedentary, this is 1.2. Add in exercise calories, Subtract 20% from this number.

Bam. Calorie deficit.

Example: if you're 30 years old, 400 lbs, 5'10 and male, your BMR is around 3200. Sedentary lifestyle means 3840 normal daily calorie burn. Subtract 20% and you have a 3050 daily calorie goal. Add exercise back on top of that. Don't add calories for strength training (or add some small amount; I do about 50 calories per hour).

Done.

BTW, the 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass will have a waist several inches smaller than the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass. The former guy will look strong; the latter will look fat.

I have never been under 200 lbs so I just dont see myself ever getting there. I wouldnt even begin to understand what that looks like. Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

:huh: It's really not that difficult. Pick a reasonable number for a caloric intake. Stick with it, log accurately, and maintain your standard workouts for 2-3 weeks. Assess weight loss during that trial period. Too fast? Eat more. Too slow/gaining? Eat less. (You can assess loss by using the number on the scale, a measuring tape, the way your clothing fits, or simply a visual estimate by looking in the mirror or taking pictures).

No tool will give you a 100% accurate measure of intake/burn. It's not an exact science; you need to fiddle with things a bit, and be patient.

Also, starvation is stupid.

Azdak

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

Calculate your BMR. Add in an activity factor for non-exercise activity. If you're mostly sedentary, this is 1.2. Add in exercise calories, Subtract 20% from this number.

Bam. Calorie deficit.

Example: if you're 30 years old, 400 lbs, 5'10 and male, your BMR is around 3200. Sedentary lifestyle means 3840 normal daily calorie burn. Subtract 20% and you have a 3050 daily calorie goal. Add exercise back on top of that. Don't add calories for strength training (or add some small amount; I do about 50 calories per hour).

Done.

BTW, the 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass will have a waist several inches smaller than the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass. The former guy will look strong; the latter will look fat.

I have never been under 200 lbs so I just dont see myself ever getting there. I wouldnt even begin to understand what that looks like. Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

I don't think you are trying to be difficult, but I do think your sense of frustration might be overcomplicating things. If you are over 200lbs, then you can eat 1600-1800 calories per day and not count exercise calories at all (unless you are doing some type of mega workout, in which case add a couple of hundred more on for that day). You won't have to starve (although you will have to measure food and monitor intake), and you should lose weight if you are consistent.

Vigorous strength training might (and I emphasize *might*) slow down scale loss, but physical changes should be apparent--either in how clothes fit or using circumference measurements.

judykat7

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.
[/quote]

Gotta love morning beer!

peeaanuut

Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

4 hour gym sessions?

My recommendation is to spend about an hour doing strength training 3 times a week. That's 3 hours of gym time, total, per week.

That's it for gym time.

It is beneficial for you to get some cardio. I suggest doing something you enjoy, though at your size it may be difficult to do something like tennis or swimming. So just walk. Go walk around the mall for an hour 2 or 3 times a week. Anything that gets your heart rate up a bit for 2-4 hours total per week.

That's it. Done. Daily calorie deficit, some moderate cardio a couple times a week, and strength training a couple times a week.

the 4 hour gym sessions is because the gym I have has rude people and its hard to get on a machine or weights unless its 2am. So there is a lot of sit around and wait. I dont pay for the gym and I cant afford or hvae room for a weight set so the gym is the only option. Otherwise I swim laps for 30 minutes 4 times a week. I also do a group rowing class 2 times a week. I have been following the numbers from MFP since June 1 when I walked a 5k. I have my fit bit and try to hit the 5k steps a day. I am at the gym doing some sort of cardio 6 days a week. I have lost 19lbs now. Its just going to consume a considerable amount of time to lift weights. I have worked my *kitten* off to lose those lbs and I just dont want to gain by lifting weights and in my mind if I cant put a number to it, then I cant see how its usefull. But Ill give it a shot for a month and see what happens.

kevinjb1

Wow this post got sidetracked. Thanks for the info OP. I was thinking of getting a HRM, but I probably won't now because I don't do a lot of steady state cardio.

peeaanuut

Wow this post got sidetracked. Thanks for the info OP. I was thinking of getting a HRM, but I probably won't now because I don't do a lot of steady state cardio.

sorry for the sidetrack. My HRM is going in the trash when i get home as well.

Anna_Joys_Journey

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Not gonna lie, that comes across as rationalization. Excuses to avoid something strange and new and therefore frightening. Do what you like though.

Rationalization? Because you've been here when they throw water bottles at us, moo at us, and shoved my friend down and she had to get stitches...right? Yeah. I'm making up reasons to not get pushed around and physically hurt by the weight room jerks...you got me there. Whatever. I don't know why I'm even here. People are so rude to each other on here. So much for support..,eh?

This happened in the gym?

Yes. Didn't I say that?

red8424

tagging to read

magerum

The number on the scale is the only thing that matters.

heybales

I suspect that my max hrm should be set much higher than it is - but I am a bit wary about changing the settings on the watch. I was thinking of looking at the downloaded watch data on the polar site and getting an average max heart rate for my sessions in general and changing my watch settings to reflect that. I was then thinking of calculating how much I burn when I am inactive for an hour - and deduct that off the burns as well.

Do NOT set your HRM HRmax to a value equal to the maxHR you happen to reach on avg in your workouts.

You'll get totally inflated values, because what you happened to reach as maxHR in any workouts is probably far below your HRmax in general.

Anna_Joys_Journey

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.

Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?

She said above that her friend got pushed down and needed stitches and she gets water bottles thrown at her and mooed at. If she reports it and works up the chain of command, they can remedy things. Or like I said in my other post above, figure out alternatives.

Reported up the chain of command, ha! Are you in or around PACAF? Nothing will happen. Been reported countless times...nothing happens. It goes nowhere. You have seen how the military handles sexual assaults, right? I'm trying to figure out alternatives. Which is why I said I'm doing what I can at home. I'm not in America, I'm in rural Japan. I can't just drive to a different gym or something. This has gotten WAY sidetracked...

Sorry OP. I'm out.

glin23

Tag, but I really only use my HRM for cardio anyways.

Anna_Joys_Journey

When someone says "not insulting you", it's a given that what follows is something insulting.

Especially on MFP. :grumble:

bumblebums

The number on the scale is the only thing that matters.

Maybe the person who wrote that is preparing for a wedding and is hoping to be as light as possible while his/her beloved carries him/her over the threshold. Or the poster is a jockey preparing for a horse race. Or... Ok I give up.

Anna_Joys_Journey

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.

Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?

She said above that her friend got pushed down and needed stitches and she gets water bottles thrown at her and mooed at. If she reports it and works up the chain of command, they can remedy things. Or like I said in my other post above, figure out alternatives.

I agree.

I find it hard to believe that the only gym available is the one on the base.

In rural northern Japan...yeah. The only gym I as a SOFA Status dependent am allowed to use is the Potter Fitness Center on base. Thanks though.

Sandytoes71

Im glad I saw ur post op! Thanks!!!

cmcollins001

Guess im in for 4 hour gym sessions. Ill just use your numbers because every calculator is different for me. i ahve gotten 1750 calories all the way up to 4500 calories as my bmr with the same exact info. You were close. 35 years.

I really wasnt trying to be difficult. But without a way to know what I burn, I dont see how I can know I am in proper deficit without feeling starved. But if starvation is the way to go, then thats the way to go.

4 hour gym sessions?

My recommendation is to spend about an hour doing strength training 3 times a week. That's 3 hours of gym time, total, per week.

That's it for gym time.

It is beneficial for you to get some cardio. I suggest doing something you enjoy, though at your size it may be difficult to do something like tennis or swimming. So just walk. Go walk around the mall for an hour 2 or 3 times a week. Anything that gets your heart rate up a bit for 2-4 hours total per week.

That's it. Done. Daily calorie deficit, some moderate cardio a couple times a week, and strength training a couple times a week.

the 4 hour gym sessions is because the gym I have has rude people and its hard to get on a machine or weights unless its 2am. So there is a lot of sit around and wait. I dont pay for the gym and I cant afford or hvae room for a weight set so the gym is the only option. Otherwise I swim laps for 30 minutes 4 times a week. I also do a group rowing class 2 times a week. I have been following the numbers from MFP since June 1 when I walked a 5k. I have my fit bit and try to hit the 5k steps a day. I am at the gym doing some sort of cardio 6 days a week. I have lost 19lbs now. Its just going to consume a considerable amount of time to lift weights. I have worked my *kitten* off to lose those lbs and I just dont want to gain by lifting weights and in my mind if I cant put a number to it, then I cant see how its usefull. But Ill give it a shot for a month and see what happens.

You seem more focused on immediate scale results rather than long term benefit. The scale isn't a good measure for day to day success. It's only good when trending weight loss over longer periods and even then it's weight loss and not necessarily fat loss...which is actually a better goal.

Look at the scale for 5 lbs of muscle vs 5 lbs of fat:



While the fat and muscle weigh the exact same on the scale, the density of the muscle allows for it to take up less space. Look at bodybuilders, football players, wrestlers...take John Cena for instance, 6'1" and weighs 250 lbs...this is "technically" obese according to the BMI chart, however looking at him and seeing he's not obese, he just has a low body fat % and higher lean muscle %.

Body composition is much more of a success story than scale weight.

Are you going to be 400 lbs of solid muscle..no. But you can work out and build a little muscle and help retain muscle while losing weight. You have a long road ahead of you, and you need to put more focus on down the road than the minute to minute ups and downs of a scale. Find what is a good and healthy deficit for you, eat at that deficit, lift heavy things for strength and muscle retention and body composition, do cardio for helping your endurance and general health.

Find something that is a consistent way to measure calorie intake and calorie output. I use a HRM for my workouts, I don't always record exactly what it says I've burned for any given session, but if I do, I don't eat back all those calories...just enough so that I'm not starving myself.

The most important thing is that you are making an effort to eat less than you have while moving more than you have. You can even eat the same as you have but increase your activity and you will find that positive results. HRM's and counting calories as well as everything else is just making you aware of what you do and what you eat and the importance of being consistent in what you do and aware of what you are doing.

HRM's have their uses but they are not the be all, end all of exercise monitoring...nothing is. However, if you understand that they are giving you a little more than a "best guess" and if you monitor the over a couple of months before making changes to diet and exercise, you will get positive results.

JustJennie1

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.

Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?

She said above that her friend got pushed down and needed stitches and she gets water bottles thrown at her and mooed at. If she reports it and works up the chain of command, they can remedy things. Or like I said in my other post above, figure out alternatives.

I agree.

I find it hard to believe that the only gym available is the one on the base.

In rural northern Japan...yeah. The only gym I as a SOFA Status dependent am allowed to use is the Potter Fitness Center on base. Thanks though.

Then don't strength train at the gym.

Go buy some free weights and use them at home. If you don't have the money for that then buy some resistance bands. You can do some great strength training with resistance bands. There are also DVD's that you can buy or that even come with the equipment that you can use. Do body weight exercises: squats, push ups, dips, lunges.

There are a lot of inexpensive ways for you to get in some strength training.

OliveBruises

bump

peeaanuut

The number on the scale is the only thing that matters.

Or was given no other matrix in which to measure success. I lost 19 lbs and saw not change in waist, neck or any other measurement. So the scale is the only thing I have left to show success.