Why are people so negative regarding clean eating?

FitnessBeverlyHills

I am just going to weigh in here on this... I am a clean eater (most of the time...I am not perfect) and I have been for many years, long before I joined mfp. My experience here with other clean eaters has been negative, as they (some not all) have been judgemental, condescending, and at times quite rude. So my thought is that perhaps some of the negativity is aimed more at those individuals rather than clean eating itself. Furthermore, clean eating has so many different definitions depending on who you talk to that it has become a bit of a fad term if you will. For me it is eating the way earlier generations did, preparing meals themselves, knowing what went into their food, when cooking was cooking, not science, when preserving meant you were making jam or relish or pickles :-)

I subscribe to the 'to each their own' philosphy, I know clean eating makes me feel better, and I see it as common sense, but not everyone does. Like anything in life we have to read absorb and determine what info is relevant to us, the same applies to life on mfp.

Wishing everyone their own kind of success...cheers!

I agree with this. I think it's a little bit that the newly converted (to almost anything) can be overbearing. So the newly zealous clean eaters, sometimes, speak as if everyone else is eating trash and it gets annoying.

These threads crack me up because if people could/did see the diaries of those they have designated king/queen of McDonalds/Poptarts/ice cream they would see - for the most part - healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner with a treat or two listed under their snacks. No different from an 80/20 or even 90/10 "clean" eater.

this

This person should see my diary. McD's for two meals on Saturday followed by a Pop-Tart ice cream sandwich. Sunday McD's and another PTICS. Yesterday half my calories were from protein and fiber bars with dinner from Wendy's and cookie cake for dessert. Today I'm gorging myself on Cici's for dinner. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

If I ate like that that I'd feel extremely sluggish and sick to my stomach. It sounds like you are basically starving yourself on a protein bar the entire day so you can go eat some Wendy's. If your IIFYM Philosophy is all about this type of eating, I'll pass.



On a serious note, I checked out your dairy and you practically live off fast food and fried foods. Hardly any fruits and vegetables. I see throwing in a good juicy beef burger (Mcdonalds it has already been proven does not use actual meat), or having some pizza every now and then. But you practically live off of it. Other than that you might have a little salad from Mcdonalds and a protein bar. This is something I could never advocate to my clients or the patients at the wellness centers I visit. I work under a registered dietician and she would never suggest this type of diet. I hope this is not an example of what the IIFYM Philosophy is all about, it seems you are one of the reasons I might not preach about it. You tell someone its ok to eat Mcdonalds, don't demonize it, and before you know it over half the food they consume is either fried or from fast food.

FitnessBeverlyHills

sorry no missed logic here, both your quotes were OPINIONS and your "highly educated person in the industry" is also sharing his OPINION

Actually, it was me who provided one of the quotes and Sara provided another (which was excellent in my view.)

Yes, you are right in that they are both opinions. However, they are opinions from commentators who have shown themselves through their body of work to be objective, apply critical thinking and base their recommendations on the best available evidence at the time. That is much more persuasive to me than some guru who plays on people's emotions and fears rather than at least attempting to highlight why their methods work. I therefore place more weight on them (pardon the pun...)

There is a huge problem in the dieting world. No, it is not obesity. It is dogma and bias. You have hugely profitable dieting schemes which are based on nothing more than formulaic, arbitrary rules which the dieter must follow to the letter or they feel have [/i]failed[/i]. What happens when people feel like failures? They tend to over eat. The problem is that their diet of choice has slowed down their metabolic rate due to greater efficiency of movement and adaptive thermogenesis. They therefore tend to to pile on the weight quickly and end up at a higher starting weight. It's the classic paradox: dieting can actually make you fat.

Then because the dieter didn't really understand the mechanisms behind why the diet could work they feel doomed "I hate my body. I can never lose weight no matter what I do. I have a slow metabolism" (Actually, I do have slow metabolism but I am a special snowflake They then end up giving up.

A diet based on compulsion, guilt and disinformation is a weak foundation. A method based on knowledge, choice and motivation has a much better chance of succeeding. I admit that in my opinion that some IIFYM cheerleaders have all the grace and persuasiveness of a bull. In a china shop. Wearing rollerskates. And a cape. However, getting people to question their belief and have a dialogue about them will never be a bad thing.

Ever.

Thank you for finally making a more well thought out response without the constant insulting. And thank you for admitting that this is your Opinion on the matter. I have not seen one person on this entire thread state that they ONLY eat "clean". They all said they try to eat "clean" as much as possibly because they feel better and it works for them.

I've also said several times that both sides of the coin have good points that can be applied and I personally don't believe in having to narrow myself down to one side or the other. I don't like labels, diets, fads, etc because they all usually leave something out that is useful. What works for one person does not always work for another. Have your opinions, have your group, do what works best for you, but there is no need to unleash the wolves everytime someone makes a comment about clean eating, or is looking for an alternative food source, or who does not think Mcdonalds is nutrient dense food( or real food for that matter). I think you pretty much nailed it on the head with the last paragraph, there is a way to spread your view points without the constant bashing.

WhataBroad

This made it all worth reading through!!

ThinLizzie0802

IDK, but I would like to introduce new evidence. Below is the abstract.

"In a new landmark study, the debate about clean eating or not clean eating has been shown to result in a drastic increase in thoughts of suicide and other ailments among partcipants. While the study was small, consisting of an N=1 population base, the user was forced to read and engage in conversation via forum posts. The user reported a great deal of melancholy, including thoughts of suicide, as well as the temptation to quit his job so he could not afford the internet so it would be shut off and he would have no choice but to stop looking. Other health markers were negatively elevated, including a 20% increase in blood pressure during and after.

Another interesting item of note, the patients brain activity was greatly diminished after participating. It appeared as if the participants brain was rebelling and choosing to shut down. More research is needed."

BRAVO!

LAW_714

neandermagnon

sorry no missed logic here, both your quotes were OPINIONS and your "highly educated person in the industry" is also sharing his OPINION

Actually, it was me who provided one of the quotes and Sara provided another (which was excellent in my view.)

Yes, you are right in that they are both opinions. However, they are opinions from commentators who have shown themselves through their body of work to be objective, apply critical thinking and base their recommendations on the best available evidence at the time. That is much more persuasive to me than some guru who plays on people's emotions and fears rather than at least attempting to highlight why their methods work. I therefore place more weight on them (pardon the pun...)

There is a huge problem in the dieting world. No, it is not obesity. It is dogma and bias. You have hugely profitable dieting schemes which are based on nothing more than formulaic, arbitrary rules which the dieter must follow to the letter or they feel have [/i]failed[/i]. What happens when people feel like failures? They tend to over eat. The problem is that their diet of choice has slowed down their metabolic rate due to greater efficiency of movement and adaptive thermogenesis. They therefore tend to to pile on the weight quickly and end up at a higher starting weight. It's the classic paradox: dieting can actually make you fat.

Then because the dieter didn't really understand the mechanisms behind why the diet could work they feel doomed "I hate my body. I can never lose weight no matter what I do. I have a slow metabolism" (Actually, I do have slow metabolism but I am a special snowflake They then end up giving up.

A diet based on compulsion, guilt and disinformation is a weak foundation. A method based on knowledge, choice and motivation has a much better chance of succeeding. I admit that in my opinion that some IIFYM cheerleaders have all the grace and persuasiveness of a bull. In a china shop. Wearing rollerskates. And a cape. However, getting people to question their belief and have a dialogue about them will never be a bad thing.

Ever.

^^^^ this

neandermagnon

Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food!

Thanks Sara, that's one of my favorites of all time.

Whelp, that's kind of Just Your Opinion, Some others don't agree. What you chose to use your extra calories on is your business, but if someone else makes a difference choice why is there a need to chastise them for it. Cant you eat your ice cream and they have some slices of watermelon without it turning into a IIFYM vs Clean Eaters debate. Maybe for them they do get extra credit because they are avoiding additives or want to stick to foods grown by mother nature. That is their philosophy and they are entitled to it. Just like an IIFYMer doesn't get kudos because they met their nutrients needs and decided they wanted to use the rest on some Mickey D's. Do what works for you. There's no reason to troll for the words "clean" just to cause tension and arguments. You don't need to preach your "facts and science" to every member who uses the word, or follows a different philosophy than yours.

Does this imply once our nutritional needs are met, we can go eat a half gallon of ice cream with out negative effects on our biochemistry(I am talking about lethargic or ill feeling)?

My thoughts exactly. Let me just say this, I try my best to avoid fast food at all costs because once I stopped eating it and then tried to have some, I felt sick to my stomach. My body completely rejected it. When something does that it may not necessarily be that great for you. I personally dont believe that just because I met my macros I can go eat whatever else I want. If that's your philosophy not a problem with me, but don't tell me that all your vast scientific evidence states otherwise. Whether you can eat certain foods and still lose weight is one thing. Whether its actually good for your body is another.

cue argument
"Fast food has nutrition do you even know what healthy is"
"stop demonizing food"
" there is no such thing as Good For You"
"as long as you meet your macro's blah blah blah"
"

I suggest you read the whole quote.

I was giving a well reasoned viewpoint from a highly educated person in the industry. No trolling was involved. He also lays out the logic, which you seem to have missed.

sorry no missed logic here, both your quotes were OPINIONS and your "highly educated person in the industry" is also sharing his OPINION

Feel free to QFT hahahaha ok but seriously

most IIFYMer actually eat clean 80-90% of the time so in your own words stop "demonizing" the term. Let by gones be by gones. Whether you like it or not "Clean Eating" is a philosophy that exists just like your IIFYM is. There are many reasons besides just weight loss as the person stated above. There's nothing wrong with it and I see more people calling Clean Eating wrong, than I see members attacking IIFYMer for having some ice cream. Macro's aren't the end all be all in my opinion but it has valid points, Clean Eating isn't the end all be all, but it has some great points...is it so hard to admit that?

Oh dear!

You really did not understand the quote (it was only one from me btw) that I posted at all if that is your reaction. I posted it not for your 'approval' as frankly I do not care. I posted it as a reasoned explanation from someone who is very well versed in nutition for people who may be interested.

ETA: I am still a bit baffled as to how posting that quote is trolling. Methinks you just like to insult people who have a different viewpoint. That could be considered trolling you know!

So sara was this a complement? "He also lays out the logic, which you seem to have missed." Are you implying she has no logic and she's duand an idiot? It's an insulting comment what you have said. Just so you're aware.

I'd call that a valid observation, not an insult.

That's your view on the matter, doesn't mean her,I, others or the mods share the same view. That's not a neutral comment. It's more on the negative side... you didn't even have to address that issue. The same way i didn't address how you didn't type a space between "Methinks" i can imply things out of that if I wanted to.

That she reads Shakespeare and is well educated? Perchance, yikes, English?
You are reaching.

But back to the logic of "IIFYM eaters are clean 80% of time" - yes, it's likely true but it means also that 100% of the time the don't demonize pizza, donuts or pasta. They just fit it in. Yet the clean eating only crowd associate it with abberant behavior like licking dog butt.

The idea "Clean eating must be right because IIFYM people do something like that sometimes" is the logical equivalent of

^^^^ and THIS

brower47

I just pointing out might be saying things and aren't aware of the negative effects it has on people. Just to pick better wording, but I do give you props on your attempt at reverse psychology.I am taken sara... thanks Maybe if things don't go well, maybe our paths might cross and we can have a romantic encounter.

Pu, that is just wrong on so many levels.....even for you.

I disagree. That's pretty much standard operating procedure for him.

Yeah. Good point.

*sneeze*

haha, i was joking with all this... i hope you guys realize that. I was just pointing out she was making assumptions that aren't true. You ever heard the phrase, "fight nonsense with nonsense?" that's what this was...

You don't make sexual 'jokes' with someone who you've been aggressively arguing with and expect people to take it as a harmless joke. Please learn to use some self control and learn to know what is appropriate and inappropriate.

LiftAllThePizzas

Have your opinions, have your group, do what works best for you, but there is no need to unleash the wolves everytime someone makes a comment about clean eating, or is looking for an alternative food source, or who does not think Mcdonalds is nutrient dense food( or real food for that matter).

Here comes the loaded language again. People do not "unleash" when they hear someone says McDonalds is not nutrient dense. People contradict you and correct you with facts when you say ridiculous things such as calling white rice "garbage."

CookNLift

i just ate a twinkie. now i have to poop.

brower47

Have your opinions, have your group, do what works best for you, but there is no need to unleash the wolves everytime someone makes a comment about clean eating, or is looking for an alternative food source, or who does not think Mcdonalds is nutrient dense food( or real food for that matter).

Here comes the loaded language again. People do not "unleash" when they hear someone says McDonalds is not nutrient dense. People contradict you and correct you with facts when you say ridiculous things such as calling white rice "garbage."

But it's far easier to accuse people of the negative behavior that you are guilty of yourself in order to deflect. She uses that tactic well.

And now McDonalds isn't real food. It is now in the realm of the flying spaghetti monster. Who knew something imaginary (the opposite of real) could be so tactile (and delicious).

jofjltncb6

...or who does not think Mcdonalds is nutrient dense food( or real food for that matter)

Mcdonalds it has already been proven does not use actual meat

Not real food? Then what is it?

Not actual meat? Then what is it?


ETA: Not that I actually expect you to answer these questions.

BeachIron

Have your opinions, have your group, do what works best for you, but there is no need to unleash the wolves everytime someone makes a comment about clean eating, or is looking for an alternative food source, or who does not think Mcdonalds is nutrient dense food( or real food for that matter).

Here comes the loaded language again. People do not "unleash" when they hear someone says McDonalds is not nutrient dense. People contradict you and correct you with facts when you say ridiculous things such as calling white rice "garbage."

lololol people called me Racist against Asians, I hardly see that as any type of correction with facts. Its more insulting, attacking, and making ridiculous arguments by the little IIFYM group of forum bullies.

And yet you continue to ignore the people attempting to have perfectly sensible conversations with you while you continue with the inflammatory language.

LiftAllThePizzas

I don't do IIFYM. I have a calorie and protein target.

Calling people bullies when they are on the internet and have no power over you is ridiculous.

You claim to be a professional. If you expect people to take you as one you need to live up to that description. Posting gifs and implying your opponent is a 5 year old* are among the many unprofessional things you are doing on this forum.

(*Unless I misread that and you were implying instead that your 5 year old nephew knows more about science than you do? But either way you were attempting to insult someone instead of addressing the point.)

Olivia

Dear Posters,

I wanted to provide a brief explanation for locking this topic.

The forum guidelines include these items:
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation

a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.


2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting

Please stay on-topic within a forum topic. Off-topic or derogatory remarks are disrespectful. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting.This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.


If you would like to review the forum guidelines, please visit the following link:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

At our discretion, this locked thread may be deleted entirely in the near future.

With respect,
Olivia
MyFitnessPal Community Manager