September (2016) Running Challenge
Replies
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Got a question: I'm a programmer, so I love data. I have data from all the races I've ever run (chipped/not, GPS length/advertised length, time, etc.). I don't have whether a particular race was USATF-certified (I know some are, but not all of the ones that are).
How do I come up with a REAL PR number? Do I calculate based on the actual distance or the advertised distance (which means effectively running the tangents will shorten the actual distance), as compared with the chip-based timing? I know that I'm going to more heavily-weight chip-based timing.
That's more of a philosophical question than a programming question. You need to determine exactly what the time is supposed to measure when you consider it for a PR. You could end up with different flavors of PR - PR gun time, PR net time, PR training distance, for example.
Having said that it is a philosophical choice, I would be inclined to count net time for marathons, and gun time for most shorter events. My reasoning is that many of the shorter events I run do not record net time, so gun time is the only thing I have to compare. But gun time doesn't exist for Boston, because of the wave start; and for sure I'm going to compare Boston to my other marathons. Practically all certified marathons will record net time, if only to advertise that they give you a fair chance to qualify for Boston.
On the distance front, I don't really want to compare training distance to race distance. My training distances are all measured by Garmin, and the Garmin measurement for races is usually a little longer than the stated race distance. Tangents, GPS error, course margin of safety on official measurement, and maybe something else I don't know about; but the race distance is not the same thing as a training run distance. Close, but not exact.
The other argument for gun time goes like this: In most USATF events, and many non-USATF races, gun time is the official placement for finishing. That makes for a large difference between gun time and net time for middle of the pack, non-competitive runners; but for competitive runners, gun time measures race performance including how well the runner lined up at the start line and how good a jump the runner got at the gun as well as how well the runner covered the legal course, including good or poor tangent running.
FWIW: I don't pay attention to PRs for training runs. I could find PRs for races, though I don't keep close track. I suppose I ought to keep both gun time and net time PRs, though in some cases (e.g., 10K) the same race is a PR in both and in other cases (e.g., 5K), the PR race only had gun time but would obviously have still been a PR on net time.1 -
@9voice9 -Since PRs are a personal thing, I guess it's entirely up to you how you want to calculate them. For me, I base mine off of the chip time of a certified course. While not fool-proof, I think it's the best way to compare apples to apples. For me, if a course is not certified, I can't really depend on its accuracy, nor can I depend on the accuracy of my Garmin, hence, I do not consider PRs acquired during training runs, although I don't believe that I have ever run a training run faster than a race. I have never officially run a 10K, therefore, I do not have a 10K PR.1
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@mbaker566 when the time is right you'll get those shoes on, just take care of yourself and do what you need to do for yourself. I'm sure the pictures are very bittersweet. Just know you are in my thoughts and prayers
@juliet3455 thanks for asking. Mom is in rehab and like any other 83 year old who has been so sick it's going to take some time. The doctors assure me medically she is on the mend and will continue to do so. Physically it's going to take a while. It tore me up to leave her Sunday, I just laid on the bed with her. Skip had a hurt hamstring and just ran her first meet this past weekend. No where near a PR, but I think her mind needed to know what the hamstring already knew, that it's healed. She was happy with her time, though Coach let her know he was not. She just lets that roll off her back. She was about 2 mins behind her PR. My other half is home on R&R and he sent me a text of her finishing and she falling to the ground, honestly man what were you thinking! She said she was hot and more stumbled over the finish line and fell, but after 5 minutes she was okay. My friend is a nurse and jumped right into action to take care of her. thanks again for asking
@adrianchr92 I was telling Skip about the race, she just looked at me and I said "I can't stand running a 2 mile on the track, oh no way" LOL You would definitely need something to keep you entertained.2 -
lporter229 wrote: »@9voice9 -Since PRs are a personal thing, I guess it's entirely up to you how you want to calculate them. For me, I base mine off of the chip time of a certified course. While not fool-proof, I think it's the best way to compare apples to apples. For me, if a course is not certified, I can't really depend on its accuracy, nor can I depend on the accuracy of my Garmin, hence, I do not consider PRs acquired during training runs, although I don't believe that I have ever run a training run faster than a race. I have never officially run a 10K, therefore, I do not have a 10K PR.
That is how i do mine as well. I'm not a guy who will line up at the head of the pack just to get a gun time. In some of our bigger local races it'll take 90 seconds or longer for a 2 hour half or 4 hour marathon pace group to get to the line after the gun. For an elite or above average competitive runner lining up close to the front, gun time and chip time will be really close, for a mid to back pack starter it can vary quite a bit. I know I'd be perturbed if I was a competitive runner and there was a bunch of slow runners getting to the line early that I had to get around out of the blocks.
@lporter229, I've only run (1) 10k many years ago when I first started running. I have finally accepted garmin time as my PR since it is so much better than the event time, and i've run faster paces in longer race. Garmin also has several PR's it tracks like 1k's or 1 mile, etc that I let it track as well since i doubt i'll ever pay money to race those distances. I also doubt i'd ever set a 5k, 10 mile or half pr in a training run, but if i did I wouldn't consider it my true PR.
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@9voice9 The only way to be sure you ran, let's say a 5k it's to run it on a track in lane 1. Even on certified coursed you need to run perfect tangets or you run more than the distance. I'd say that you shouldn't bother much and just go with the fastest one that is certified. Non certified courses can sometimes be 100-200 meters off1
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07KatieP13 wrote: »@mom3over40 I've just ordered some glycerin 13s, £60 with free delivery. I'm shocked by the price difference for different colours, the ones I'm getting are black, pink and orange, not very pretty to look at. But any other colours are at least £50 extra in all the other online stores I checked. I think I'd rather run in ugly shoes with an extra £50 in my pocket lol.
Totally agree. Actually, with that difference, you can almost buy one more pair to alternate with!0 -
@juliet3455 haha! Budgie smugglin'! Sounds criminal! I'll have to hit Google for that one. Haha! Oh I love Google!
@9voice9 I agree with the masses on the PR. The sanctioned races I've run are not, by my path, 10.0 k, or 13.1 miles, even the 5k isnt 5.0. I'm sloppy on the tangents I guess. But, I just roll with it. 5k, 10k, half pr counts as long as I ran the minimum distance of the race and it's chip timed. I have a 5k that stellar, but was way short. So I don't count it. I do count training runs as PR's. Or maybe just call it a PB, rather than a record, more a best effort thing. Either eyether sort of thing.
If Garmin got it- it happened.
As an example:
So my HM chipped PR is (was) 2:20:47 for 13.4 miles. I don't adjust it. It might motivate me to think more on staging, crowds and tangents though.
My Garmin has a different take on my PR's. 2:17:28 for 13.1.
Totally sell your PR as you see it. We're diggin' your accomplishments either way. *Knuckles*
Although I lost a Strava course record to someone on a damn bike... So as long as it's run, were good.1 -
@skippygirlsmom we seem to have a lot of twin runs, and twin monthly goals.
I am so in taper mood, despite this week being a relatively normal (33 mile) week. Taking Friday off this week. I really hope I can stay with the pace group I am planning to start with, it will be AMAZING if I can have enough in the tank to just eek past the pace group and pull a sub-2:00 in 11 days.1 -
Thanks, @Elise4270. Now it got me thinking, maybe the mysterious headaches I get occasionally has something to do with it too....
Thanks @RunRachelleRun and @ceciliaslater I didn't know magnesium (or had to be magnesium citrate?) has something to do with it. I thought potassium was the issue. I had lots of leg cramps at night as a kid and then again during pregnancy. I don't know if my stomach would react to magnesium citrate but I saw that the Nuun that Elise talked about has magnesium in it, maybe I would try that out first.
@MobyCarp @AdrianChr92 Thank you both for your input. Would you say that just drinking water alone may not help hydration as much when drinking with electrolytes (at least for some people)?1 -
Got to Philly mid day today by train and ended up having some lunch with my best friend before heading out on a run.
As they say when running in Philly, it is practically a requirement to run the Rocky steps, so I headed out from my city center hotel to the museum of art, only to find them fenced off because some random sitting president was giving a stump speech for Hillary. I caught a few minutes of the talk, but as it was mostly political rah rah Yay-Hillary Boo-Trump rhetoric, I resumed the run along the Schuylkill river heading north, crossed it about 5 miles upstream, returned along the Fairmont park trail, and came back to my hotel after 10 miles.
I'll give the steps another shot on my run tomorrow and hopefully won't encounter any more political rallies. #thanksobama
9/1 - 6 miles (treadmill)
9/2 - 10 miles
9/3 - 12 miles
9/4 - 16 miles
9/6 - 10.5 miles (w. HM pace running at end)
9/7 - 6 miles
9/9 - 6 miles
9/11 - 3 miles
9/12 - 8.5 miles
9/13 - 10 miles
Total: 88 miles, 1 MP+ faster session
Goal: 190 miles, 8 MP+ faster sessions
Remaining: 102 miles, 7 MP+ faster sessions
2016 Race Schedule:
Disney Marathon - Jan 6 - 3:29:09
Gasparilla 15K - Feb 20 - 1:01:59
Ironman 70.3 Florida - Apr 10 - 5:07:51
Pittsburgh Marathon - May 1 - 3:08:25
Ironman 70.3 Augusta - Sep 25
Chicago Marathon - Oct 9
Ironman Florida - Nov 5
Rock 'n Roll Las Vegas 10K - Nov 13
@ddmom0811 - for races, I'll try to get in 500ml sodium/hour via gatorade/salt pills, which keeps things in balance as too much water can be a problem.1 -
Omg, I think the mag citrate I'm thinking of is that stuff in the litre bottle they make you drink before a colonoscopy! Haha! Ya, magnesium tablets could be citrate, I always thought they were carbonates.
I see the tablets would be fine!
@mom3over40 nuts, tyramine foods (aged/packaged), nitrates, sulfates, and soy cause headaches for me. I'm being punished I think.... Heat will also get me if I'm not careful.
Some new research had been put out on muscle cramps claiming that it's a nerve issue. But nerves rely heavily on ions (electrolytes) anyhow. I think the suggestion was something acidic with electrolytes for exercise cramps. But then I kinda felt like someone was trying to make a buck....
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@juliet3455 haha! Budgie smugglin'! Sounds criminal! I'll have to hit Google for that one. Haha! Oh I love Google!
Enjoy that eyeful @Elise4270
And, I didn't realise that 'dodgy' was a particularly British word? It is a good word though.
@MNLittleFinn I think you're going to smash that sub-2 barrier! Fingers crossed for a strong taper and a stronger race.
@mbaker566 I hope that, when you're ready and do head out for a run, that it brings you all the relief and the outlet that you need for everything you're going through.
@9voice9 I agree with what has already been said about PBs, as I tend to go for my chip times for accredited races. Although, when I was a newbie runner, I did count my PBs in training because, well, those were the only PBs I was running and it was a great motivator, even though there was no formality to it. Now I wouldn't run a PB in training anyway so I just go by the chip time, even if my watch tells me I've run a bit further/not quite far enough, but I guess ultimately it's what you feel.
September Running Challenge
1st-4th - Poorlysick
5th - 3.53 miles
6th - 4.06 miles
8th - 10.02 miles
10th - 3.1 miles
11th - 6.07 miles
13th - 3.01 miles
MTD - 29.79/70 miles
Upcoming races:
18th Sept - Run Reigate Half Marathon
2nd Oct - Tonbridge Half Marathon
30th Oct - River Thames Half Marathon
17th Dec - Lee Valley VeloPark Half Marathon
9th April 2017 - Brighton Marathon2 -
@9voice9 I tend to use chip time PR if I am sharing the information with friends. But I would use the "best effort" time from Strava as the PR for running calculators to find the pace that I was able to handle and to see if my goal finish time totally unrealistic. Since you are a programmer, would you be able to use the data from the TCX files to do the time, distance calculations?1
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@louubelle16 Dodgy is used a little here. Your just more likely to hear sketchy for activities or gimpy for an injury. I like it. Reminded me of dodge vehicles... Maybe they're dodgy. The Brits didn't like the US vehicles? (Mines German). No dodgy US auto here. Hahaha!
Now how do I clear my browser on mobile? Rarely see a fella here in anything that shows even their knees!0 -
Date Miles today - Miles for September
9/1 9 miles - 9
9/2 5 miles - 14
9/3 18 miles - 32
9/4 REST DAY
9/5 10.5 miles - 42.5
9/6 9 miles - 51.5
9/7 6.2 miles - 57.7
9/8 10 miles - 67.7
9/8 6.2 miles - 73.9 << Daily Double
9/9 6.2 miles - 80.1
9/10 18 miles - 98.1
9/11 REST DAY
9/12 8 miles - 106.1
9/12 5 miles - 111.1 << Daily Double
9/13 9 miles - 120.1
9/13 4 miles - 124.1 << Daily Double
Upcoming races:
UAH 8K - 3/6 <<< 34:33 3 in AG
Oak Barrel HM - 4/2 <<<< 1:38:00 3 in AG
Bridge Street HM - 4/10 <<< 1:36:33 3 in AG
PEO-AVN Team Day 5K - 5/4 <<< 19:10 (2.9 mi) 1 in AG 5 OA
Cotton Row Run 10K - 5/30 << 44:57 PR
Firecracker Chase 10.2 miler 6/25 << 1:20:22 1 in AG & 15 OA
Huntsville Half Marathon - 11/12
Rocket City Marathon - 12/10
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Omg, I think the mag citrate I'm thinking of is that stuff in the litre bottle they make you drink before a colonoscopy! Haha! Ya, magnesium tablets could be citrate, I always thought they were carbonates.
I see the tablets would be fine!
@mom3over40 nuts, tyramine foods (aged/packaged), nitrates, sulfates, and soy cause headaches for me. I'm being punished I think.... Heat will also get me if I'm not careful.
Some new research had been put out on muscle cramps claiming that it's a nerve issue. But nerves rely heavily on ions (electrolytes) anyhow. I think the suggestion was something acidic with electrolytes for exercise cramps. But then I kinda felt like someone was trying to make a buck....
Bwahahaha, I'm not sure, but I don't think that's magnesium citrate. You can get liquid milk of magnesia for indigestion, I think. Magnesium is a known issue for night leg cramps/charlie horses, and it has helped mine.
I've also read that the latest sports science on cramps is that they are a nerve issue. I've been trying to figure out the "secret" ingredient they are trying to sell in the new products. Looks like ginger and/or turmeric from my research. I'm going to put some ginger in my homemade sports drink for my half, in the hopes that it helps me avoid the crazy painful toe cramps I got in the last couple miles of my first one.1 -
Okay a little bit of Google. Magnesium citrate is a saline laxative. Bleh! I have magnesium supplements that are mag oxide.
Neither here nor there, they all provide magnesium. And diarrhea. Nah JK.
@RunRachelleRun I can see ginger and tumeric doing muscles good. They are both antiinflammatories. Great idea adding them to your sports drink!1 -
@mom3over40 nuts, tyramine foods (aged/packaged), nitrates, sulfates, and soy cause headaches for me. I'm being punished I think.... Heat will also get me if I'm not careful.
Soy sauce? Oh my, glad that you are not Chinese. I am and I have a kid who used to have a list of allergies and I was just so glad that soy wasn't one of them. But yeah, you got a long list...1 -
@RunRachelleRun Thanks a lot for the info! There is still so much to learn. I think I have learned/read so much more about health/diet since I started running, much more than when I was just trying to lose weight!2
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I take mag citrate for migraines but it depends on the does/tolerance on if it gives you the running trots or not. I take a low does but if you pass your threshold you are going to go no doubt about it. The liquid works best but the pill form will get you as well if you aren't careful. Mag oxide is less likely to give you problems but that is because you don't absorb it as well.2
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Feeling under the weather today. Stayed home from work but felt well enough around 5:00 to go out for a walk. Ran 0.5 miles of it just to test the legs. I think I should be well enough to run tomorrow.1
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A short slow 6 km Stretch Run to work the post race kinks out of the legs.
09/01 – 0.0 km – 0.0 - 140 km – 842.7 km
09/04 – 8.0 km – 8.0 – 132.0 km
09/06 – 8.0 km – 16.0 – 126.0 km
09/08 – 8.0 km – 24.0 – 118.0 km
09/10 – 7.0 km – 31.0 – 111.0 km
09/11 – 10.0 km – 41.0 – 101.0 km
09/13 – 6.0 km – 47.0 – 95.0 km – YTD 889.7 km
The 7 km that I did on the 10th as a pre-race slow stretch was a little to long, will have to cut back to 4-5 km max.
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@mom3over40 - Water alone is definitely not as good for hydration as water + electrolytes, at least in warm weather. How big the difference is between water and water + electrolytes may vary from one person to another, and certainly varies with the weather. Also, some runners may need to watch potassium or magnesium more than other runners do. That's an individual type of thing that you learn by paying attention to how your body reacts to different things you try.1
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September Running Totals (miles)
9/1 – 10.07 warmup + tempo intervals
9/2 – 7.76 partial course preview
9/3 – 3.80 easy 30 minutes
9/4 – 15.44 warmup + Oak Tree Half
9/5 – 4.52 easy 30 minutes + 4 strides
9/6 – 6.72 warmup + speed work
9/7 – 4.04 easy
9/8 – 7.18 warmup + intervals
9/9 – rest day
9/10 – 6.06 easy
9/11 – 11.04 partial course preview
9/12 – 3.77 easy
9/13 – 6.36 warmup, intervals, cool down
September total to date – 86.76
Nominal Challenge Goal – 200 miles
Real Goals: Manage Rochester Marathon well as a race, recover quickly.
Today's notes – Today's assignment was 2 miles easy, 4 x 1000 at T, 2 miles easy. The club party was this evening at Mendon Ponds Park, which meant I got to run the workout on hills. We happened to run into multiple other groups there for soccer, cross country, and I don't know what else; so I ran most of the workout on a dead end road that the traffic wouldn't need to get out of the park. That happened to be up and down one of the more minor hills for the intervals, so that was okay. There were no good 1000m markings, so it was an estimate of 0.62 or 0.63 miles by Garmin for the 1000, but that's okay too. Ended up chopping a mile of easy off the end of the workout because I was back at the shelter and wanted to cool down before we ate.
Ate too much, but had a good time. Several club members BQ'd at Erie Sunday, including a couple of guys who had been trying to get to Boston for several years. And our open women's team captain beat the men's BQ target with 3:03 and change.
No more hard running or long running before Sunday.
2016 races:
January 1, 2016 Resolution Run 7.5 mile (Mendon, NY) finished in 53:58
January 9, 2016 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) finished in 1:30:59
March 12, 2016 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 32:32
March 26, 2016 Spring Forward Distance Run 15K (Mendon, NY) finished in 1:05:24
April 18, 2016 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:23:01
April 24, 2016 Flower City Challenge Half Marathon (Rochester, NY) finished in 1:36:50, targeting MP
May 15, 2016 Highland Hospital Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) DNS - injury
June 19, 2016 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) DNS - recovering from face plant
July 16, 2016 Shoreline Half Marathon (Hamlin, NY) finished in 1:31:11
August 13, 2016 Bergen Road Race 5K (Bergen, NY) finished in 19:07 (5K PR)
September 4, 2016 Oak Tree Half Marathon (Geneseo, NY) finished in 1:31:37
September 18, 2016 Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
October 2, 2016 USATF Masters 5K Championship (Syracuse, NY)
October 15, 2016 Finish Strong 15K (Hilton, NY)
October 22, 2016 Scare Brain Cancer Away 5K (East Rochester, NY)
November 24, 2016 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
2017 races:
April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) {acceptance pending}1 -
I'm a little behind but bear with me!
@kristinegift - looking good in that race photo! I love your shorts
@RespectTheKitty - congratulations on the 5K PR!!
@emmab0902 - woohoo, 10K is such a fun race distance! Don't worry, the race day adrenaline will kick in and suddenly 10K will seem completely doable!
@dkabambe - I feel your pain! I haven't ran in three weeks now (it feels so much longer than that!) due to injury -_- a week off now is so much better than weeks or months off in the future because you ran through the pain and made things worse! Wishing you a speedy return to running
@AdrianChr92 - love the shorts! Do they make them in girl sizes!?!
@mbaker566 - awesome shirts! Definitely a great purchase
@skippygirlsmom - those 24 hour races sound crazy! I couldn't imagine doing anything for 24 hours straight, especially not running...
Took Sunday off to let my legs recover. I've been pretty sore/tired getting back to cardio after taking 2 weeks off from all physical activity! I went to the pool again last night (it was so crowded, uhg) and swam 2.5 km total with 25 minutes of water running sprinkled throughout. Like I said before, it is just so boring, but I'm hoping that I'll become mentally stronger in the coming weeks and can endure more than 5-10 minutes at a time. Today's workout was 2 minute sprint intervals on the bike again, and man my legs were pretty sore! As I was cooling down, a friend of mine that I haven't seen in a few months sat down on the bike next to me, so my 5 minute cool down turned into 25 minutes as we caught up. I stretched out really well afterwards, and then spent 30 minutes this evening doing core and hip strengthening. The good news is that I haven't had any pain whatsoever in my shin for about two days now! And it does not seem to be tender to the touch anymore. I'm going to try a brisk walk again sometime in the next few days to see where I am.
8/06: bike- 5 min easy, 10x(2 min hard/1 min easy), 5 min easy + core
8/07: 30 min steady state, elliptical + 6.5 min walk (3.4 mph) + core
8/09: bike - 5 min easy, 6x(4 min hard/2 min easy), 5 min easy + 1.3 mile walk (leisurely)
8/10: 1.5 km swim + 25 minutes deep water running interspersed + core
8/12: 2.5 km swim + 25 minutes deep water running interspersed
8/13: bike- 5 min easy, 10x(2 min hard/1 min easy), 25 min easy + core4 -
Broke my running up into a short before work jog, a 30 minute interval run at lunch, and a 30 minute tempo run this evening. 11.5km total for today. Past the half way mark to my goal for the month!
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@mom3over40 - Water alone is definitely not as good for hydration as water + electrolytes, at least in warm weather. How big the difference is between water and water + electrolytes may vary from one person to another, and certainly varies with the weather. Also, some runners may need to watch potassium or magnesium more than other runners do. That's an individual type of thing that you learn by paying attention to how your body reacts to different things you try.
Thank you!0 -
wow. Ya'll are all really inspiring!!
I've run 11 miles so far this month.
I'll shoot for 30!
My New Year's Resolution for this year was to do a 5k every month! And I have surpassed that!
So happy! Doing better running than I ever thought I could!
2016 Runs:
1/30- Mardi Gras 5k
2/14 - Paramount Break-A-Leg 5k
3/18 - Lucky Trail 5k.
3/26- Inflatable 5k.
4/2 - Pet and Owner Fun Run 5k.
4/16- Wine Run 5k.
4/2 - Gritty Goddess 5k Mud Run
5/1- Santo De Mayo 5k at St Arnold Brewery
5/21- Rennaissance Mud Run 5k
6/27 - Las Vegas Strip Run 5k
7/16 - Sunset 5k for Ainsley's Angels
8/24 - Midnight Run 5k
9/10 - 9/11 Travis Manion. Heroes Foundation 5k.
Races to Come:
9/18- Toughest Kemah 10k. My first 10k :-)
10/1 - Dog Original Mud Run 5k
10/8- Head for the Cure MD Anderson 5k
10/15- Strut Your Mutt 5k run
11/24- Turkey Trot 5k
12/3- Inflatable 5k
12/18- Santa Hustle 5k1 -
juliet3455 wrote: »
@Elise4270 When it comes to local language terms, What ever you do don't buy any Budgie Smuggler Swim Trunks for your DH - @Orphia is LOL right now.
Oh, yes, you know I am...@juliet3455 haha! Budgie smugglin'! Sounds criminal! I'll have to hit Google for that one. Haha! Oh I love Google!
BWAHAHAHAHA! OH NO!@louubelle16 Dodgy is used a little here. Your just more likely to hear sketchy for activities or gimpy for an injury. I like it. Reminded me of dodge vehicles... Maybe they're dodgy. The Brits didn't like the US vehicles? (Mines German). No dodgy US auto here. Hahaha!
Now how do I clear my browser on mobile? Rarely see a fella here in anything that shows even their knees!
Hahahahahaha, you did it! Oh dear. Hope you had Safe Search on at least.
I pity you all the pictures of Tony Abbott!
(I don't have to Google, I just know that would happen.) 1
This discussion has been closed.
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