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Alcohol and Society
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »Heroin is a highly physically addictive drug. And anyone that uses it can become physically addicted. And involves severe withdrawal to stop using it. I have seen that addiction in my family. Some alcoholics are physically addicted and need medical supervision if they stop due to withdrawal. I have family members like that. But, that's usually after many decades of alcoholism. People can drink without developing a physical addiction. Usually the addiction is psychological for the mind and mood alterations. As a family member the heroin addiction is more distressing to me than the alcoholism.
On the other hand unsupervised alcohol withdrawal can kill you. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not true of any other drug.0 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »Heroin is a highly physically addictive drug. And anyone that uses it can become physically addicted. And involves severe withdrawal to stop using it. I have seen that addiction in my family. Some alcoholics are physically addicted and need medical supervision if they stop due to withdrawal. I have family members like that. But, that's usually after many decades of alcoholism. People can drink without developing a physical addiction. Usually the addiction is psychological for the mind and mood alterations. As a family member the heroin addiction is more distressing to me than the alcoholism.
On the other hand unsupervised alcohol withdrawal can kill you. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not true of any other drug.
I'm pretty sure heroine and meth can kill you unsupervised3 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »Heroin is a highly physically addictive drug. And anyone that uses it can become physically addicted. And involves severe withdrawal to stop using it. I have seen that addiction in my family. Some alcoholics are physically addicted and need medical supervision if they stop due to withdrawal. I have family members like that. But, that's usually after many decades of alcoholism. People can drink without developing a physical addiction. Usually the addiction is psychological for the mind and mood alterations. As a family member the heroin addiction is more distressing to me than the alcoholism.
On the other hand unsupervised alcohol withdrawal can kill you. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not true of any other drug.
I did say in my post that physical alcohol withdrawal requires medical supervision. And you absolutely need medical supervision for heroin. In fact my family member has spent decades struggling through the addiction to the drugs they give to help people get off heroin. It's so difficult. With the alcohol, I still feel like there is hope. But, when she falls down the rabbit hole of heroin, I lose her for years. She becomes incoherent. And deceptive. We can't communicate. And I have almost physically lost her many times. Alcohol is killing her. The doctor says she will die if she doesn't stop (because of her pancreas). But, heroin can kill her in an instant. I'm not saying heroin is worse. But, it's definitely not better. And I have witnessed it to be more difficult and destructive. That's just my experience. I would feel so bad if she ever read this. But, we were doing so good. And now she has not spoken to me for a very long time because she is lost in the addiction again. I didn't think it would get to this place again. I hope I will get her back again someday.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Rationalization seems to be a hallmark of mankind on any subject.enabling us to be correct in any belief we choose. Science can be a useful tool in the process.
Certainly is.. Here's some of the crap my husband comes out with to rationalise his drinking.
- It's not as if i get off my face
- I'm not as bad as I used to be
- I'm not an alcoholic, I just enjoy a drink... every single day
- I don't drink as much as so and so
- I don't have to worry about my liver, only hard spirits cause liver damage, i only drink beer
- Alcohol is my only vice, I've already quit smoking ffs, don't make me give up EVERYTHING- aka as a guilt trip..4 -
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. My family member was told she will die if she doesn't stop drinking. At least for a year. She has to go to the hospital every morning for treatments just to be able to function to stay alive. But, she still says she is not an alcoholic. And that she isn't as bad as the other alcoholic family members.1
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. My family member was told she will die if she doesn't stop drinking. At least for a year. She has to go to the hospital every morning for treatments just to be able to function to stay alive. But, she still says she is not an alcoholic. And that she isn't as bad as the other alcoholic family members.
Wow I need to know morrrrrrrrrre0 -
Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. My family member was told she will die if she doesn't stop drinking. At least for a year. She has to go to the hospital every morning for treatments just to be able to function to stay alive. But, she still says she is not an alcoholic. And that she isn't as bad as the other alcoholic family members.
Wow I need to know morrrrrrrrrre
What do you mean? Are you wondering about the medical issues? It's complicated because she has a few different medical conditions. One she has had her whole life, but it was worsened by suboxone (for heroin withdrawal, but she became addicted). She has pancreatic disease from the alcohol. So, she can't digest a lot of foods. Oddly I can't digest a lot of foods either, but for a different reason, and mine was caused by being incorrectly prescribed meds by a doctor. The doctor says her pancreas is being destroyed and will turn into pancreatic cancer. My grandfather also has cirrhosis of the liver and alcohol induced dementia.1 -
I come from a family of addicts on my dad's side. Alcohol was the drug of choice for my uncles. Gambling has taken a toll on one of my family members. I thought I was addiction free and so happen to be setting in a class called CELEBRATE RECOVERY to understand the program that a friend of mine teaches. That was when I was trying to taper off of sugar and all grains for pain management. The chapter on Denial was when the light bulb went off and I understood I was a carb addict for the first time in my life. I did not know one could be a carb addict at the time but I really I was in the same boat as the gambler and alcoholic denying my condition that was going to take me out. It was not until I gave up denial that I was able to drive by Dairy Queen without stopping for a banana split. The addict I now understand is not likely to ever see his or her state for what it is. Giving up carbs was hard for the first two weeks but with my new understanding I was determined not to die prematurely over carbs. I do not like being out of control and I was when it came to my Way Of Eating.2
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. My family member was told she will die if she doesn't stop drinking. At least for a year. She has to go to the hospital every morning for treatments just to be able to function to stay alive. But, she still says she is not an alcoholic. And that she isn't as bad as the other alcoholic family members.
Wow I need to know morrrrrrrrrre
What do you mean? Are you wondering about the medical issues? It's complicated because she has a few different medical conditions. One she has had her whole life, but it was worsened by suboxone (for heroin withdrawal, but she became addicted). She has pancreatic disease from the alcohol. So, she can't digest a lot of foods. Oddly I can't digest a lot of foods either, but for a different reason, and mine was caused by being incorrectly prescribed meds by a doctor. The doctor says her pancreas is being destroyed and will turn into pancreatic cancer. My grandfather also has cirrhosis of the liver and alcohol induced dementia.
That's terrible
I was just wondering to compare to myself .. everybody says I drink alot and stuff1 -
I'm troubled by the effort to inject the "you are rationalizing" argument to support one side of the argument vs. another. Obviously addicts rationalize, however. When I was drinking (and I knew I drank problematically from the beginning -- I remember thinking really early on "I'm going to have to stop some time," and just kept pushing back when that date was -- end of college, end of my 20s, so on). I wasn't going to come out and say to someone that I thought I was an alcoholic and said stupid stuff like "yeah, really low tolerance and sometimes I just drink too fast" or things like that and definitely played off socially appropriate ways to be into alcohol, but I knew for myself that it was a problem. I'd compare different things to myself and be "yeah, I don't do that" or "so-and-so does that too, it must not be as messed up as I'd worried, since he's a relatively normal person with an okay life," but for me that wasn't convincing myself I wasn't an alcoholic (I have too much in my family to have been in denial about that), but that I was still a "functional alcoholic." I thought so long as I was functional and could hide (or pretend to myself I was hiding) it from others, it was just a private quirk and not something I had to stop (yet). It was wrong, but everyone has some stuff they do that's wrong, right?
Even at the time I am pretty sure I knew I was rationalizing it -- I've always been pretty aware while rationalizing.
But even though my own "I'm not a drunk, I'm just into wine" things were BS (although I really was into wine too, which made it somewhat harder when I stopped, since I missed that aspect) doesn't mean that someone else who says "I just like a red with a good steak" or points out that she never actually gets drunk, but just likes a glass with dinner must be BS too. The problem with using "ha! rationalizing!" or "ha! denial!" as an argument is that the other person ends up getting accused of that no matter what he or she says (unless it's "okay, you win, we should all think about it like you"). I don't therefore find that helpful as a discussion tactic.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I come from a family of addicts on my dad's side. Alcohol was the drug of choice for my uncles. Gambling has taken a toll on one of my family members. I thought I was addiction free and so happen to be setting in a class called CELEBRATE RECOVERY to understand the program that a friend of mine teaches. That was when I was trying to taper off of sugar and all grains for pain management. The chapter on Denial was when the light bulb went off and I understood I was a carb addict for the first time in my life. I did not know one could be a carb addict at the time but I really I was in the same boat as the gambler and alcoholic denying my condition that was going to take me out. It was not until I gave up denial that I was able to drive by Dairy Queen without stopping for a banana split. The addict I now understand is not likely to ever see his or her state for what it is. Giving up carbs was hard for the first two weeks but with my new understanding I was determined not to die prematurely over carbs. I do not like being out of control and I was when it came to my Way Of Eating.
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I also don't think anyone in this discussion is rationalizing within the discussion.
Also just want to say that I really do have a low tolerance. One six ounce glass of wine keeps me very buzzed all night. One nine ounce glass is usually ok too. Two glasses is too drunk for me. Though if it's mixed drinks like gin and tonic with 1.5 ounces gin, then I can have two. Three ounces is a good amount for me. But, my GI tract can't handle alcohol. Went out last night and I was offered a free shot twice. I had to refuse.1
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