Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Alcohol and Society
Options
Replies
-
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Its arguably debated that alcoholism is just as harmful than other unlawful drugs, if not more, because it is legal. I belong to support groups of both and you can't tell the families there it is a difference. Addiction is addiction. And what makes alcohol abuse so alarming is the fact that it is legal. I'm sure this thread wasn't suppose to turn in this direction, but with posters making fun of me because I used a comparison is beyond crazy to me when I stated my opinion.
And lets be clear, I am not saying an occasional drinker is an alcoholic.
http://www.12keysrehab.com/blog/recovery-from-alcohol-vs-heroin
http://alcoholrehab.com/alcoholism/alcohol-more-dangerous-than-heroin/
The thread isn't about alcoholism. It's about society's views on alcohol consumption.
Got that...and my view is most consume too much and sometimes it crosses over to addiction.
Still projecting.0 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Americans consume far less alcohol annually per capita now than did the generation our Founders. In 240 years, the trend of alcohol consumption in America has declined quite steadily.
Yet you are not acknowledging that 240 years ago, beer (and likely other fermented drinks) were believed, and widely advocated, to be safer/healthier to drink to meet daily water intake requirements than the local water supply by many Americans.
Then again, there's also been times in history where humans believed, and widely circulated, bathing with boiled water to be unhealthy.
We routinely acknowledge we've believed a lot of incorrect things out of ignorance/fear/etc throughout history. And yet, we continue to do so like it's somehow different this time around. The human condition, love it or hate it, at least it's predictable.
1 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »Hangover-free booze could replace the rough stuff by 2050
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/science/hangover+free+booze+could+replace+rough+stuff+2050/12218177/story.html#
Say goodbye to that Saturday morning hangover.
David Nutt, an Imperial College professor and former government drugs advisor has reportedly patented 90 types of synthetic alcohol compounds that will usher in a new, and better, hangover-free world. According to Nutt, the substance will imitate the pleasurable effects of alcohol without any of the negative consequences.
“It will be there alongside the scotch and the gin, they’ll dispense the alcosynth into your cocktail and then you’ll have the pleasure without damaging your liver and your heart,” he told The Independent.
He claims that his team also developed a way to “max out” the effects, meaning that you could achieve an ideal level of inebriation without getting too “drunk.”
The active ingredients used by Nutt are currently unknown – and the inventor won’t be giving away his secrets anytime soon. Others have tried creating similar synthetic compounds using benzodiazepine derivatives but Nutt says his product is different.
Introducing a safe and viable hangover-free alcohol would obviously have a huge impact on not only public health but on the economy as well. The Center for Disease Control reported last year that excessive drinking in the U.S. cost the economy $250 billion (although food delivery services and Netflix probably both benefit nicely).
Two of the “alcosynth” compounds are currently being tested extensively. One is described as “tasteless” and the other as slightly bitter.
What a leap forward for society that will be. Getting drunk without the consequences of a hangover the next day to remind you that maybe you drink too much. <eye rolly>3 -
grinning_chick wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Americans consume far less alcohol annually per capita now than did the generation our Founders. In 240 years, the trend of alcohol consumption in America has declined quite steadily.
Yet you are not acknowledging that 240 years ago, beer (and likely other fermented drinks) were believed, and widely advocated, to be safer/healthier to drink to meet daily water intake requirements than the local water supply by many Americans.
Then again, there's also been times in history where humans believed, and widely circulated, bathing with boiled water to be unhealthy.
We routinely acknowledge we've believed a lot of incorrect things out of ignorance/fear/etc throughout history. And yet, we continue to do so like it's somehow different this time around. The human condition, love it or hate it, at least it's predictable.
240 years ago it might have been.1 -
grinning_chick wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Americans consume far less alcohol annually per capita now than did the generation our Founders. In 240 years, the trend of alcohol consumption in America has declined quite steadily.
Yet you are not acknowledging that 240 years ago, beer (and likely other fermented drinks) were believed, and widely advocated, to be safer/healthier to drink to meet daily water intake requirements than the local water supply by many Americans.
Then again, there's also been times in history where humans believed, and widely circulated, bathing with boiled water to be unhealthy.
We routinely acknowledge we've believed a lot of incorrect things out of ignorance/fear/etc throughout history. And yet, we continue to do so like it's somehow different this time around. The human condition, love it or hate it, at least it's predictable.
240 years ago throughout the world drinking water was a very bad idea. Drinking unpasteurized milk was an even worse idea (Google 'milksicks') and would probably kill you. Everyone including children drank fermented drinks (ale, mead, wine if you were richer or could grow your own grapes) because that was the safest thing to drink (that's also why people made cheese rather than drinking the milk)1 -
Heartisalonelyhunter wrote: »grinning_chick wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Americans consume far less alcohol annually per capita now than did the generation our Founders. In 240 years, the trend of alcohol consumption in America has declined quite steadily.
Yet you are not acknowledging that 240 years ago, beer (and likely other fermented drinks) were believed, and widely advocated, to be safer/healthier to drink to meet daily water intake requirements than the local water supply by many Americans.
Then again, there's also been times in history where humans believed, and widely circulated, bathing with boiled water to be unhealthy.
We routinely acknowledge we've believed a lot of incorrect things out of ignorance/fear/etc throughout history. And yet, we continue to do so like it's somehow different this time around. The human condition, love it or hate it, at least it's predictable.
240 years ago throughout the world drinking water was a very bad idea. Drinking unpasteurized milk was an even worse idea (Google 'milksicks') and would probably kill you. Everyone including children drank fermented drinks (ale, mead, wine if you were richer or could grow your own grapes) because that was the safest thing to drink (that's also why people made cheese rather than drinking the milk)
^^ All of this. The fermentation process was one of the only ways to have a liquid that would store well and you could generally safely drink without giving yourself some form of gastro.
After coming back to read through this thread, I'm surprised that there are still posters insinuating that the reasons that we give as to why we drink are covers for some kind of drinking problem. For some people it might be, but for many of us it's an insult being slapped in the face for enjoying said fermented beverage. I'm going to quote and change part of my earlier comment to re-enforce something:mangrothian wrote: »Personally, I need no justification to drink, and the assumption that people are making excuses / providing justification for drinking alcohol on this thread seems very narrow minded. I drink alcohol in moderation because I enjoy the flavour, the way it complements my food but I can happily and more often than not have food without it, and the enjoyment of having a beer with my hubby when I get home from work on a hot day or a glass of wine on Friday with my co-workers but I also enjoy these occasions without it and enjoy myself just as much; I could also say the same thing about coffee or a cupcake (and alternate them quite frequently). I take no joy in binge drinking or getting beyond tipsy, and I won't drink something I don't like 'just because it's there'.
In some cases, people who consume too much too regularly do cross over to addiction. The majority do not. I'm of the belief that binge drinking and alcoholism in younger will become more frequent as alcohol is demonised more instead of children/young adults being educated to see a healthy relationship with it as they grow up. I'm seeing it happen here now; Australia has a no drinking in public except at designated festivals, and we have lockout laws on our pubs. People rush to the bar at last call, knowing that they need to get their last drinks and consume them before they go out instead of savouring the last one they have, knowing they can finish it on the way home. Instead of the last drink lasting an hour or more, they shove 2 or 3 more in because 'oh noes, lockout!!'. They drink 4 or 5 beverages at home before they go out to a party in a public place because they can't drink anything there, instead of having 1 or 2 if they could actually drink there (I speak from experience as it's what my friends and I used to do in university. Learned from it, and certainly not proud of it).
Unless something drastic happens in society, alcohol is never going to be become a banned substance. Just like smoking, food, and illegal drugs, there will always be abusers. It's human nature. Instead of arguing how horrible it is, we need to look at ways on how to change society's views so alcohol is seen as a 'treat' (I use that term since it's a common one on mfp referring to an occasional/rare consumption, not as a way to put it on a pedestal as a something special).
The issue is, how does one do that with so many societies having different views about alcohol and therefore, different views on how the issue should be solved?1 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Wetcoaster wrote: »Hangover-free booze could replace the rough stuff by 2050
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/science/hangover+free+booze+could+replace+rough+stuff+2050/12218177/story.html#
Say goodbye to that Saturday morning hangover.
David Nutt, an Imperial College professor and former government drugs advisor has reportedly patented 90 types of synthetic alcohol compounds that will usher in a new, and better, hangover-free world. According to Nutt, the substance will imitate the pleasurable effects of alcohol without any of the negative consequences.
“It will be there alongside the scotch and the gin, they’ll dispense the alcosynth into your cocktail and then you’ll have the pleasure without damaging your liver and your heart,” he told The Independent.
He claims that his team also developed a way to “max out” the effects, meaning that you could achieve an ideal level of inebriation without getting too “drunk.”
The active ingredients used by Nutt are currently unknown – and the inventor won’t be giving away his secrets anytime soon. Others have tried creating similar synthetic compounds using benzodiazepine derivatives but Nutt says his product is different.
Introducing a safe and viable hangover-free alcohol would obviously have a huge impact on not only public health but on the economy as well. The Center for Disease Control reported last year that excessive drinking in the U.S. cost the economy $250 billion (although food delivery services and Netflix probably both benefit nicely).
Two of the “alcosynth” compounds are currently being tested extensively. One is described as “tasteless” and the other as slightly bitter.
What a leap forward for society that will be. Getting drunk without the consequences of a hangover the next day to remind you that maybe you drink too much. <eye rolly>
I hope your eye roll isn't because you are drunk
1 -
I was recently told my a teetotaller (who was very religious and didn't drink because alcohol was the 'work of the devil') that the wine that Jesus drank was not wine, it was grape juice. Because obviously if you're going to grow and harvest grapes you would turn it into juice which would last only a day or two before spoiling, rather than wine that you can keep for years. He and many others actually believe that because to admit that 2000 years ago people drank fermented drinks for safety/preservation reasons would be undermining his ability to preach to booze-loving atheists such as myself. I thought it was hilarious.3
-
Wetcoaster wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Wetcoaster wrote: »Hangover-free booze could replace the rough stuff by 2050
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/science/hangover+free+booze+could+replace+rough+stuff+2050/12218177/story.html#
Say goodbye to that Saturday morning hangover.
David Nutt, an Imperial College professor and former government drugs advisor has reportedly patented 90 types of synthetic alcohol compounds that will usher in a new, and better, hangover-free world. According to Nutt, the substance will imitate the pleasurable effects of alcohol without any of the negative consequences.
“It will be there alongside the scotch and the gin, they’ll dispense the alcosynth into your cocktail and then you’ll have the pleasure without damaging your liver and your heart,” he told The Independent.
He claims that his team also developed a way to “max out” the effects, meaning that you could achieve an ideal level of inebriation without getting too “drunk.”
The active ingredients used by Nutt are currently unknown – and the inventor won’t be giving away his secrets anytime soon. Others have tried creating similar synthetic compounds using benzodiazepine derivatives but Nutt says his product is different.
Introducing a safe and viable hangover-free alcohol would obviously have a huge impact on not only public health but on the economy as well. The Center for Disease Control reported last year that excessive drinking in the U.S. cost the economy $250 billion (although food delivery services and Netflix probably both benefit nicely).
Two of the “alcosynth” compounds are currently being tested extensively. One is described as “tasteless” and the other as slightly bitter.
What a leap forward for society that will be. Getting drunk without the consequences of a hangover the next day to remind you that maybe you drink too much. <eye rolly>
I hope your eye roll isn't because you are drunk
No, but perhaps I should start? Everyone needs a hobby.
0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Wetcoaster wrote: »Hangover-free booze could replace the rough stuff by 2050
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/science/hangover+free+booze+could+replace+rough+stuff+2050/12218177/story.html#
Say goodbye to that Saturday morning hangover.
David Nutt, an Imperial College professor and former government drugs advisor has reportedly patented 90 types of synthetic alcohol compounds that will usher in a new, and better, hangover-free world. According to Nutt, the substance will imitate the pleasurable effects of alcohol without any of the negative consequences.
“It will be there alongside the scotch and the gin, they’ll dispense the alcosynth into your cocktail and then you’ll have the pleasure without damaging your liver and your heart,” he told The Independent.
He claims that his team also developed a way to “max out” the effects, meaning that you could achieve an ideal level of inebriation without getting too “drunk.”
The active ingredients used by Nutt are currently unknown – and the inventor won’t be giving away his secrets anytime soon. Others have tried creating similar synthetic compounds using benzodiazepine derivatives but Nutt says his product is different.
Introducing a safe and viable hangover-free alcohol would obviously have a huge impact on not only public health but on the economy as well. The Center for Disease Control reported last year that excessive drinking in the U.S. cost the economy $250 billion (although food delivery services and Netflix probably both benefit nicely).
Two of the “alcosynth” compounds are currently being tested extensively. One is described as “tasteless” and the other as slightly bitter.
What a leap forward for society that will be. Getting drunk without the consequences of a hangover the next day to remind you that maybe you drink too much. <eye rolly>
My nephew in college informed me the big thing to avoid a hangover is consuming Pedialite before bed. I checked and now about 1/3 of the sales of the stuff are to adults for hangover prevention instead of for babies with dehydration issues.1 -
I'm definitely not for alcohol. I grew up with a drunk. My best friend and husband used to be alcoholics. We didn't even have booze at our wedding. I've seen what it does to people. Obviously not everyone is a raging alcoholic. In my personal life, I'd rather not even touch it out of respect for the people in my life. Plus it does nothing for my weight loss goals.3
-
Packerjohn wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Wetcoaster wrote: »Hangover-free booze could replace the rough stuff by 2050
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/science/hangover+free+booze+could+replace+rough+stuff+2050/12218177/story.html#
Say goodbye to that Saturday morning hangover.
David Nutt, an Imperial College professor and former government drugs advisor has reportedly patented 90 types of synthetic alcohol compounds that will usher in a new, and better, hangover-free world. According to Nutt, the substance will imitate the pleasurable effects of alcohol without any of the negative consequences.
“It will be there alongside the scotch and the gin, they’ll dispense the alcosynth into your cocktail and then you’ll have the pleasure without damaging your liver and your heart,” he told The Independent.
He claims that his team also developed a way to “max out” the effects, meaning that you could achieve an ideal level of inebriation without getting too “drunk.”
The active ingredients used by Nutt are currently unknown – and the inventor won’t be giving away his secrets anytime soon. Others have tried creating similar synthetic compounds using benzodiazepine derivatives but Nutt says his product is different.
Introducing a safe and viable hangover-free alcohol would obviously have a huge impact on not only public health but on the economy as well. The Center for Disease Control reported last year that excessive drinking in the U.S. cost the economy $250 billion (although food delivery services and Netflix probably both benefit nicely).
Two of the “alcosynth” compounds are currently being tested extensively. One is described as “tasteless” and the other as slightly bitter.
What a leap forward for society that will be. Getting drunk without the consequences of a hangover the next day to remind you that maybe you drink too much. <eye rolly>
My nephew in college informed me the big thing to avoid a hangover is consuming Pedialite before bed. I checked and now about 1/3 of the sales of the stuff are to adults for hangover prevention instead of for babies with dehydration issues.
Pedialite's not exactly cheap, either! I guess just drinking a bit less wouldn't be an option?
0 -
It seems to me most of societies values are based in historical culture rather than common sense. Values from all aspects of life, not just alcohol.0
-
roamingtiger wrote: »I'm definitely not for alcohol. I grew up with a drunk. My best friend and husband used to be alcoholics. We didn't even have booze at our wedding. I've seen what it does to people. Obviously not everyone is a raging alcoholic. In my personal life, I'd rather not even touch it out of respect for the people in my life. Plus it does nothing for my weight loss goals.
We didn't have alcohol at our wedding either. That was a long time ago.1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.
As someone who has lived with a partner and loss them to heroin and speed, and as a person who has worked in prisons, hospitals and community settings with both drug and alcohol addicts, I do not think that this is such a terrible comparison. If alcohol had just been discovered now, instead if being a historical staple of our species for 1000's of years, it would likely be made illegal.3 -
lilac_bunny wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.
As someone who has lived with a partner and loss them to heroin and speed, and as a person who has worked in prisons, hospitals and community settings with both drug and alcohol addicts, I do not think that this is such a terrible comparison. If alcohol had just been discovered now, instead if being a historical staple of our species for 1000's of years, it would likely be made illegal.
Yeah.. no.0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »lilac_bunny wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.
As someone who has lived with a partner and loss them to heroin and speed, and as a person who has worked in prisons, hospitals and community settings with both drug and alcohol addicts, I do not think that this is such a terrible comparison. If alcohol had just been discovered now, instead if being a historical staple of our species for 1000's of years, it would likely be made illegal.
Yeah.. no.
So you have a right to an opinion but no one else does. I'll bear that in mind.2 -
I think we are getting dangerously close to a "nanny" society. Yes, in some instances alcohol is a problem and for some people a danger; however, at what point do we allow fee choice in our homes and in private life. To take it one step further...I have a weight issue, because of my own food choices, should someone else decide if I should not be able to buy or eat that doughnut or pasta. Slippery slope when we start to decide for others what should or shouldn't be good for them.2
-
I think we are getting dangerously close to a "nanny" society. Yes, in some instances alcohol is a problem and for some people a danger; however, at what point do we allow fee choice in our homes and in private life. To take it one step further...I have a weight issue, because of my own food choices, should someone else decide if I should not be able to buy or eat that doughnut or pasta. Slippery slope when we start to decide for others what should or shouldn't be good for them.
Definitely agree. There is no doubt that alcoholism is harmful. And we could have more support in dealing with that. But, that doesn't mean that no one can ever drink any alcohol.1 -
I am not much of a drinker at all but no problem if my friends want to drink when we are out.
What I guess I don't understand is when they say I really need a drink. That I find abit scary.
But generally alcohol and people's use of it doesn't really pass my mind. Like everything else it's about moderation.2
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 391 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 924 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions