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Alcohol and Society

zamphir66
zamphir66 Posts: 582 Member
edited December 3 in Debate Club
I wonder if anyone feels the same way I do about just how ingrained alcohol is in our culture. I.E., slightly disturbed.

Now I'm not advocating for some kind of neo-prohibitionist movement. But it is profoundly curious how smoking has become, for the most part, socially censured -- while alcohol, which can be so much more immediately harmful -- is celebrated. I don't think it would be a bad thing to trim back on booze advertising the same way as we've done with tobacco.

Consider: by several measures, alcohol rates as the most harmful drug. Here's one of several sources on that -- http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

Also consider: the top decile (10%) of drinkers consumes 73 standard drinks a week. Source -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/

Many probably drink even more than that, as alcoholics are notorious for under-reporting intake. The real important point of that data, in my mind, is that alcohol's entire modern business structure is supported by the top 10-15% of drinkers. (In business, this is called the Paretto Principle.) We have mega-brewers and multinational brands and are saturated in advertising because of the people who drink way too much by any objective measure. To put it another way: when you go out for drinks with friends, the reason you have so many options of where to go and what to drink is because 1 in 10 of your fellow citizens is quite literally killing themselves, and their consumption props up the whole business.

I think many of us go through lots of mental gymnastics to justify consuming something that actually is bad for you. This isn't sugar, or candy bars, or lattes we're talking about. And before anyone chimes in with the health benefits: My understanding is that any benefits have been grossly exaggerated, while downsides have been underplayed. IIRC, the specific compounds in red wine that are supposed to be 'heart healthy' can just as easily be gotten from grape juice.

So what's the debate? I guess it's this:
Do you there's nothing wrong with how our society looks at alcohol? A little bit wrong? Or a lot wrong?
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Replies

  • mangrothian
    mangrothian Posts: 1,351 Member
    The difference between the censureship of alcohol and tabacco is the damage to your body with equivalent use. A low-moderate drinker (3-4 standard drinks a week), doesn't do the irreversible damage to their liver compared to what a 'light' smoker does (I'm assuming a pack a week).

    Also, in Australia, alcohol advertising is already controlled to what times they play, what shows are on when they advertise on television, what they advertisement states, and what they can sponsor. And cigarettes have no advertising, and can only have plain packaging with these huge graphic warnings on them (they're pretty gross).

    In terms of the money spent on booze keeping the industry going, the price my boss pays for a bottle of wine (and I know he and his wife probably go through 3 bottles a week), is probably more than what a guzzling alcoholic pays for a whole fortnight.
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
    Alcohol should be used responsibly. And we need more help for addiction. And for the underlying issues that can sometimes lead to addiction. More education is always a good thing. I don't think we need to change any laws or anything like that. I'm ok with people drinking and having fun. I have fun in an environment with alcohol even though I don't drink. Personally, I can't tolerate alcohol at all because of a medical issue, but I always had an extremely low tolerance to alcohol. My husband is completely a nondrinker. And I grew up in a family with a lot of alcoholism and drug addiction. I have seen the damage it can do. And it's astoundingly sad.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Not to mention, I always get myself in trouble when I get drunk. I become brutally honest and tend to spill all the stuff I've been holding in :worried:
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
    edited September 2016
    And just in all honesty I don't understand why people get drunk. I understand having a drink or two (more for bigger people with a high tolerance). Within tolerance limits to get a little buzz. It makes me smile, laugh, feel relaxed, I get really sexual, lowers my inhibitions (already pretty low without it), and a little confidence. I don't need it for any of that. I have all of that without it. It just amplifies it. But, I always want to be able to dance, balance on one foot, be coordinated, walk a straight line, think intelligently, clearly, and not bizarrely or overly emotional, or get a hangover.
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
    I'm one of those weird people for whom alcohol doesn't do much for me. I don't get the 'buzz' or the 'glow' that seems to be what people drink for. I go from cold stone sober straight to violently ill if I drink too much, without ever reaching that intermediate "I feel good!" stage. :(

    As a result of this, I don't drink - don't see the point of it for me. I have spent my younger days being the perpetual designated driver, and I learned I could still have fun without it.

    But being the sober one in the company of inebriated people at a bar or a club got very old after a while. Very, very old. Makes me wish that we had cell phones with video capabilities back in the day. o:)
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
    That's why I go out dancing. I love to dance and have fun dancing. My partner and I are both non-drinkers. And where I go, it seems a lot of people are not getting drunk because they are also busy dancing, having fun, making conversation, doing things. So, they drink in moderation. Also depending on the dancing... there are a number of social dancing events around here that don't serve alcohol. Swing dancing, salsa, and certain alcohol free social dance jam kind of things (not sure how to explain those).
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Just what we need...more big brother.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    I rarely drink, maybe a glass of something socially once or twice a year and I have skipped some years. I don't think there is anything wrong with drinking in moderation that requires an outcry for restriction. Those who get drunk and act irresponsibly would always do that, regardless of advertisements. What I don't understand is the glamorization of alcohol. It's being treated like a rite of passage into adulthood, it's being used to label people as "cool" or "manly" or "sophisticated" or "refined" or that romanticized image of a person who has the weight of the world on their shoulders... etc. Why is it seen differently from other foods and drinks, preferences and habits? I could proclaim my undying love for tomato juice (and I have) but I don't go looking at images and ideas through tomato colored glasses or use other people's preference or lack thereof for tomato juice to form judgements.
  • betsym3
    betsym3 Posts: 353 Member
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

    He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

    He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

    Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is :(

    I can relate to this, and we have spent A LOT of money on his alcohol, three DWI's, increased car insurance premiums, damaged vehicles, the cost of three rehabs, fines, etc. And not to mention time lost from work, injures, fighting between us, and me spending about 15 years, basically, raising our two children by myself while he was out with friends so that I could keep them away from as much of this behavior as possible.
  • betsym3
    betsym3 Posts: 353 Member
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

    He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

    He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

    Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is :(

    I hate it too. Nothing good comes from it. Nothing.

    Totally agree! I said that exact same thing to my sister in-law, and her response was "But it makes you have fun". This was the only "positive" thing she could come up with..

    I can relate to this too! My husband's family has been distant to us for most of the years that we were raising our children, and throughout all three of his DWI's and hospitalizations for his drinking. We have reconnected in the past five years or so, and quite honestly, I am shocked to see the changes in them and their attitudes toward drinking. My husband also grew up in an alcoholic home, and he has not drank (but an occasional drink) in two and a half years, and quit smoking too.

    To my surprise, people in his family that never drank in the past now do. What is up with that? They do not like my Facebook posts from Alanon, and think that this drinking is something that they have to do in their new circle of friends since they have retired. It's like people in their 60's and 70's that cannot stand up to peer pressure, and act like teenagers. They have even tried to sabotage our efforts by buying my husband cigarettes and alcohol. I can deal with being in drinking situations, and either not drink or have a drink (one). Why can't these people tolerate being around someone who is not drinking? Are they really this socially immature?

    Anyway, I'm so glad that I rarely have to deal with this, because I rarely see these people. And I like it that way! Alcoholic behavior is not fun!
  • Lounmoun
    Lounmoun Posts: 8,423 Member
    I'm disturbed by how many use alcohol as a coping mechanism. Drinking because you like the taste of wine with your dinner or like a bottle of beer is different from drinking to not deal with your problems or not being able to be social without a lot of alcohol in your system.

    I don't think there need to be more laws or a temperance movement. Maybe just seeing other options for having a good time and coping with life of people not using alcohol in unhealthy ways. Maybe some honesty about how being drunk makes you act stupid and careless of yourself and others and it is a *kitten* goal. Being drunk does not make you more fun to be around. Getting drunk and expecting someone else to take responsibility for you is not drinking responsibly.
  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,644 Member
    xmichaelyx wrote: »
    betsym3 wrote: »
    we have spent A LOT of money on his alcohol, three DWI's, increased car insurance premiums, damaged vehicles, the cost of three rehabs, fines, etc.

    The problem isn't the alcohol; it's that the person you're describing is an a-hole.

    I love drinking. I drink daily, sometimes to excess. I love beer and bourbon.

    That said, I don't drink and drive, because I'm not an idiot. Addiction doesn't cause people to get DWIs or wreck their cars. Being an a-hole does.

    Alcohol by itself is neither harmful nor helpful.
    betsym3 wrote: »
    Alcoholic behavior is not fun!

    My gf and I are both very happy, functional, educated, well-paid alcoholics. It's tons of fun!

    So much this!!
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    betsym3 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

    He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

    He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

    Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is :(

    I hate it too. Nothing good comes from it. Nothing.

    Totally agree! I said that exact same thing to my sister in-law, and her response was "But it makes you have fun". This was the only "positive" thing she could come up with..

    I can relate to this too! My husband's family has been distant to us for most of the years that we were raising our children, and throughout all three of his DWI's and hospitalizations for his drinking. We have reconnected in the past five years or so, and quite honestly, I am shocked to see the changes in them and their attitudes toward drinking. My husband also grew up in an alcoholic home, and he has not drank (but an occasional drink) in two and a half years, and quit smoking too.

    To my surprise, people in his family that never drank in the past now do. What is up with that? They do not like my Facebook posts from Alanon, and think that this drinking is something that they have to do in their new circle of friends since they have retired. It's like people in their 60's and 70's that cannot stand up to peer pressure, and act like teenagers. They have even tried to sabotage our efforts by buying my husband cigarettes and alcohol. I can deal with being in drinking situations, and either not drink or have a drink (one). Why can't these people tolerate being around someone who is not drinking? Are they really this socially immature?

    Anyway, I'm so glad that I rarely have to deal with this, because I rarely see these people. And I like it that way! Alcoholic behavior is not fun!

    My husbands family and friends have distanced themselves from him since he cut down his drinking (he doesn't get drunk anymore).
    One of his best mates said "you're gonna lose a lot of friends over this", to him i replied, "well they weren't real friends to begin with"! They're the real A-holes in this situation... Good riddance!!!
  • Alatariel75
    Alatariel75 Posts: 18,349 Member
    BinaryPulsar wrote: »
    I watch the show drunk history. It's funny while still being interesting.

    That show is pretty damn hilarious.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    zamphir66 wrote: »
    Do you there's nothing wrong with how our society looks at alcohol? A little bit wrong? Or a lot wrong?

    I don't really know how our society looks at alcohol. Who or what constitutes "our society"? I know a variety of people and their views on alcohol vary greatly.

    I don't think advertising or the top 10% of alcohol consumers would accurately reflect our society as a whole.

    But I'd have to say I do not think there is anything wrong with it on a societal level. If I saw it as a problem I suppose I wouldn't be so confused by the question. ;)
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