Alcohol and Society

zamphir66

I wonder if anyone feels the same way I do about just how ingrained alcohol is in our culture. I.E., slightly disturbed.

Now I'm not advocating for some kind of neo-prohibitionist movement. But it is profoundly curious how smoking has become, for the most part, socially censured -- while alcohol, which can be so much more immediately harmful -- is celebrated. I don't think it would be a bad thing to trim back on booze advertising the same way as we've done with tobacco.

Consider: by several measures, alcohol rates as the most harmful drug. Here's one of several sources on that -- http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

Also consider: the top decile (10%) of drinkers consumes 73 standard drinks a week. Source -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/

Many probably drink even more than that, as alcoholics are notorious for under-reporting intake. The real important point of that data, in my mind, is that alcohol's entire modern business structure is supported by the top 10-15% of drinkers. (In business, this is called the Paretto Principle.) We have mega-brewers and multinational brands and are saturated in advertising because of the people who drink way too much by any objective measure. To put it another way: when you go out for drinks with friends, the reason you have so many options of where to go and what to drink is because 1 in 10 of your fellow citizens is quite literally killing themselves, and their consumption props up the whole business.

I think many of us go through lots of mental gymnastics to justify consuming something that actually is bad for you. This isn't sugar, or candy bars, or lattes we're talking about. And before anyone chimes in with the health benefits: My understanding is that any benefits have been grossly exaggerated, while downsides have been underplayed. IIRC, the specific compounds in red wine that are supposed to be 'heart healthy' can just as easily be gotten from grape juice.

So what's the debate? I guess it's this:
Do you there's nothing wrong with how our society looks at alcohol? A little bit wrong? Or a lot wrong?

fr33sia12

We all know the risks drinking alcohol just like taking drugs or smoking or unhealthy foods. We can decide to drink the recommended daily allowance of units or drink too much, just like we can choose to smoke or take drugs or not. The fact smoking is no longer advertised hasn't stopped people smoking, the fact drugs are illegal doesn't stop people taking them and stopping advertising alcohol isn't going to stop people drinking.

My opinion is that if people want to drink too much, knowing what could happen to them then they have to deal with the consequences too. Just like drugs and smoking. It's just a shame our health service has to suffer to deal with all the problems that come with it.

JeromeBarry1

Americans consume far less alcohol annually per capita now than did the generation our Founders. In 240 years, the trend of alcohol consumption in America has declined quite steadily.

I personally don't mind that enthusiastic consumers happily pay the $25/gallon tax on alcohol represented by that stamp on every bottle.

The rise and social prevalence of smart-phone texting has caused that to eclipse drunk driving as the greatest perceived hazard of driving.

Do I think we should ban advertising? No. When you ban things you don't like you firstly cause honest labor to be suppressed and secondly cause the price of the thing banned to rise. When the price of a buzz is dear, suppliers will kill to deliver it. We already have proven that with both Prohibition and the War on Drugs.

GaleHawkins

I never drank alcohol because I know the history of my uncles alcohol abuse and my abuse of carbs in general. That being said I am not into trying to control others as long as their use of alcohol does not negatively impact my family or society. There are laws on the books that deals with public drunkenness. DWI, etc. I am not sure the taxes produce a 'net' income but alcohol usage is nearly has old as prostitution and it is still with us.

Humans tend to act in ways that may be bad for health but I do believe in the rights of others to do so. Picking on one "sin" over another typically ends badly. I am accountable for my self and assume that to be the case of others.

mangrothian

The difference between the censureship of alcohol and tabacco is the damage to your body with equivalent use. A low-moderate drinker (3-4 standard drinks a week), doesn't do the irreversible damage to their liver compared to what a 'light' smoker does (I'm assuming a pack a week).

Also, in Australia, alcohol advertising is already controlled to what times they play, what shows are on when they advertise on television, what they advertisement states, and what they can sponsor. And cigarettes have no advertising, and can only have plain packaging with these huge graphic warnings on them (they're pretty gross).

In terms of the money spent on booze keeping the industry going, the price my boss pays for a bottle of wine (and I know he and his wife probably go through 3 bottles a week), is probably more than what a guzzling alcoholic pays for a whole fortnight.

Chef_Barbell

No. Big brother is already too involved in personal lives and decisions.

Karb_Kween

Alcohol is for fun

Drink responsibly

Christine_72

My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is

BinaryPulsar

Alcohol should be used responsibly. And we need more help for addiction. And for the underlying issues that can sometimes lead to addiction. More education is always a good thing. I don't think we need to change any laws or anything like that. I'm ok with people drinking and having fun. I have fun in an environment with alcohol even though I don't drink. Personally, I can't tolerate alcohol at all because of a medical issue, but I always had an extremely low tolerance to alcohol. My husband is completely a nondrinker. And I grew up in a family with a lot of alcoholism and drug addiction. I have seen the damage it can do. And it's astoundingly sad.

Christine_72

newmeadow wrote: »

Christine_72 wrote: »

My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is

I hate it too. Nothing good comes from it. Nothing.

Totally agree! I said that exact same thing to my sister in-law, and her response was "But it makes you have fun". This was the only "positive" thing she could come up with..

gothchiq

Alcohol is great on occasion. Too many calories to be consumed regularly.

Christine_72

Not to mention, I always get myself in trouble when I get drunk. I become brutally honest and tend to spill all the stuff I've been holding in

BinaryPulsar

And just in all honesty I don't understand why people get drunk. I understand having a drink or two (more for bigger people with a high tolerance). Within tolerance limits to get a little buzz. It makes me smile, laugh, feel relaxed, I get really sexual, lowers my inhibitions (already pretty low without it), and a little confidence. I don't need it for any of that. I have all of that without it. It just amplifies it. But, I always want to be able to dance, balance on one foot, be coordinated, walk a straight line, think intelligently, clearly, and not bizarrely or overly emotional, or get a hangover.

Alluminati

Like everything else in society there are those that will over use and abuse it, that's just a part of life. I can't control how others behave so there is no point to me fussing over it. I like having a beer with my dinner or a glass of wine. I believe it enhances my meal and is satisfying. Like @gothchiq said upthread it's way too many calories for what it's worth so it's used sparingly by me i.e. moderation and all that.

snickerscharlie

I'm one of those weird people for whom alcohol doesn't do much for me. I don't get the 'buzz' or the 'glow' that seems to be what people drink for. I go from cold stone sober straight to violently ill if I drink too much, without ever reaching that intermediate "I feel good!" stage.

As a result of this, I don't drink - don't see the point of it for me. I have spent my younger days being the perpetual designated driver, and I learned I could still have fun without it.

But being the sober one in the company of inebriated people at a bar or a club got very old after a while. Very, very old. Makes me wish that we had cell phones with video capabilities back in the day.

BinaryPulsar

That's why I go out dancing. I love to dance and have fun dancing. My partner and I are both non-drinkers. And where I go, it seems a lot of people are not getting drunk because they are also busy dancing, having fun, making conversation, doing things. So, they drink in moderation. Also depending on the dancing... there are a number of social dancing events around here that don't serve alcohol. Swing dancing, salsa, and certain alcohol free social dance jam kind of things (not sure how to explain those).

jgnatca

We've tried prohibition. It didn't go well. Case in point, it gave the Mafia a leg up and established the fortunes of at least one filthy rich Canadian family.

The countries with the fewest problems with alcohol are the ones that treat it as no big deal. Wine is served at the dinner table and children see moderation modelled. Case in point, Israel and France.

I think we need more extensive rehabilitation programs for alcoholics and other recreational drug users.

cwolfman13

Just what we need...more big brother.

GottaBurnEmAll

I think the focus of this discussion can go two ways. While alcohol can be abused as a substance and seen only as a means to alter one's relationship with reality, alcohol also is used responsibly by many people as an adjunct to enhance their dining experience.

I see no reason to paint all alcohol users with the same brush. Not everyone who drinks does so to get drunk.

amusedmonkey

I rarely drink, maybe a glass of something socially once or twice a year and I have skipped some years. I don't think there is anything wrong with drinking in moderation that requires an outcry for restriction. Those who get drunk and act irresponsibly would always do that, regardless of advertisements. What I don't understand is the glamorization of alcohol. It's being treated like a rite of passage into adulthood, it's being used to label people as "cool" or "manly" or "sophisticated" or "refined" or that romanticized image of a person who has the weight of the world on their shoulders... etc. Why is it seen differently from other foods and drinks, preferences and habits? I could proclaim my undying love for tomato juice (and I have) but I don't go looking at images and ideas through tomato colored glasses or use other people's preference or lack thereof for tomato juice to form judgements.

betsym3

Christine_72 wrote: »

My husband and i are polar opposites when it comes to alcohol.. He drinks everyday, I drink maybe once a year if there's a social gathering.

He thinks drinking everyday is normal- I think it's abnormal.

He grew up in a drinking culture, all of his family/friends are big drinkers - None of my family or friends are big drinkers, and like me, only drink socially aka very rarely.

Personally, being with my husband has completely made me hate alcohol. Since being with him i have seen close up how damaging it is

I can relate to this, and we have spent A LOT of money on his alcohol, three DWI's, increased car insurance premiums, damaged vehicles, the cost of three rehabs, fines, etc. And not to mention time lost from work, injures, fighting between us, and me spending about 15 years, basically, raising our two children by myself while he was out with friends so that I could keep them away from as much of this behavior as possible.