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Alcohol and Society
Replies
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I always found alcohol in society to be a very interesting topic.
I spent a good portion of my 4 years in undergrad drinking. It was a way of coping with stress (the school I went to has a Urban Dictionary definition comparing the graduates to rabid parrots....whoever wrote that has been to that school).
I got out into the real world and ended up on a traveling crew spending much of my first 5 years of my career overseas. I thought alcohol was important in college. When I started traveling, alcohol was the force that bound our universe together. We'd drink together to celebrate the happy events one of our coworkers had to miss because they were in some foreign land with us. We'd drink to drown the sorrows of a cheating SO or the inevitable divorce of one of our coworkers. We'd drink because the customer wanted to go drink. We'd drink because we were lonely. We'd drink to welcome the new people to the project. We'd drink because the hotel had free happy hour and had to take advantage of it!
When we'd come back to the states and would have a large company meeting, there was alcohol served. After 5 years, I was a drunk. I'd call myself an alcoholic, but I was too stupid to seek help when I needed it. Through the strength my wife gave me and the grace of God, I stopped drinking on my own. For about 5 years, I'd be surprised if I drank a 6 pack.
When I quit the traveling life and became an outsider looking in, I was shocked how our world revolved around alcohol. Then I look at society and the life we lived wasn't a strange phenomenon, it was the norm. When society celebrates such as a wedding, we celebrate with alcohol (when I go to a wedding without alcohol, it feels strange). When friends gather socially, often alcohol is a part. When guys get together to watch a football game, it is beer and nachos at a friends house or you meet at a bar. I could go on and on.
So is this a problem?
It wasn't until I had my "sober period" in life when I finally gained control of alcohol rather than alcohol was controlling me that I realized that it was an issue. I've known alcoholics and I flirted heavily with alcoholism myself. There are people who can't have alcohol and being around it is a temptation that those people should not have to bear. The fact that these people have to bear the burden of sobriety in a situation where societies norm is to have alcohol is an issue.
I wish I would have realized that fact when I was younger and I wish I had been more respectful to those who could not or did not want to drink.9 -
I think hangovers are a pretty bizarre phenomenon also. I'm sitting here trying to think of an analogy and I can't. This one time not in band camp I put so much butter on my homemade popcorn that I woke up in the middle of the night to vomit. Never again did I put that much better on my popcorn. Rationally speaking a person should have one hangover and then not repeat that. Yet speaking for myself I spent the last 15 plus years hung over more often than not. Think about what would happen if you woke up in the morning with all the symptoms of a really bad hangover but you hadn't drank the night before. You would probably go to the hospital. Another interesting observation: everyone has woken up at some point and said I wish I didn't drink so much last night. No one has ever woken up and said I wish I drank more last night.
Again no judgments here. Just observations. Today is 97 days sober for me. My life is actually beginning to come together for the first time. An important part of my therapy is to de-romanticize my drug of choice. For an interesting book on alcohol and Society I strongly recommend "This naked mind."
ETA: I noticed a few people up thread expressing that they feel offended by someone else's post. I can somewhat relate to that. Let's just say I'm slightly miffed by the characterization of teetotalers as boring stuffy lame miserable at cetera. For me this is a life-or-death issue. I put myself in the hospital twice and ruined countless relationships. So I'm going to choose to stay alive even if it does God forbid make me boring.
Not everyone gets hangovers. *shrug*0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Not everyone gets hangovers. *shrug*
Of course not everyone gets hangovers. I didn't say that. If you drink, and don't get hangovers, you're doing things well.
I'm just saying it's kind of hard to grok getting them habitually and rationalizing them, or even wearing them as a badge of honor. This coming from someone who did precisely that.
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Not everyone gets hangovers. *shrug*
Of course not everyone gets hangovers. I didn't say that. If you drink, and don't get hangovers, you're doing things well.
I'm just saying it's kind of hard to grok getting them habitually and rationalizing them, or even wearing them as a badge of honor. This coming from someone who did precisely that.
Ahhh I understand now. Yes that makes sense.1 -
I no longer get hangovers, but that's because I shut down before I drink that much, and I make a point of eating well beforehand. I'll be honest and say I've had a few doozies in my life, usually caused by not eating enough before having a drink or two. With age came wisdom.3
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JustMissTracy wrote: »I no longer get hangovers, but that's because I shut down before I drink that much, and I make a point of eating well beforehand. I'll be honest and say I've had a few doozies in my life, usually caused by not eating enough before having a drink or two. With age came wisdom.
So much me here too lol... I also drink water with each alcoholic beverage.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I wonder if anyone feels the same way I do about just how ingrained alcohol is in our culture. I.E., slightly disturbed.
Now I'm not advocating for some kind of neo-prohibitionist movement. But it is profoundly curious how smoking has become, for the most part, socially censured -- while alcohol, which can be so much more immediately harmful -- is celebrated. I don't think it would be a bad thing to trim back on booze advertising the same way as we've done with tobacco.
Consider: by several measures, alcohol rates as the most harmful drug. Here's one of several sources on that -- http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
Also consider: the top decile (10%) of drinkers consumes 73 standard drinks a week. Source -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/
Many probably drink even more than that, as alcoholics are notorious for under-reporting intake. The real important point of that data, in my mind, is that alcohol's entire modern business structure is supported by the top 10-15% of drinkers. (In business, this is called the Paretto Principle.) We have mega-brewers and multinational brands and are saturated in advertising because of the people who drink way too much by any objective measure. To put it another way: when you go out for drinks with friends, the reason you have so many options of where to go and what to drink is because 1 in 10 of your fellow citizens is quite literally killing themselves, and their consumption props up the whole business.
I think many of us go through lots of mental gymnastics to justify consuming something that actually is bad for you. This isn't sugar, or candy bars, or lattes we're talking about. And before anyone chimes in with the health benefits: My understanding is that any benefits have been grossly exaggerated, while downsides have been underplayed. IIRC, the specific compounds in red wine that are supposed to be 'heart healthy' can just as easily be gotten from grape juice.
So what's the debate? I guess it's this:
Do you there's nothing wrong with how our society looks at alcohol? A little bit wrong? Or a lot wrong?
Having 5 uncles that died prematurely or suffered greatly from alcohol abuse along with their families I was lucky that my father quit alcohol at the age of 16 and quit smoking at the age of 22 so I was never around it and yet knew the down side. After I realized I had abused non alcohol carbs for 40 years then I better understood my uncles. Getting drunk then fighting was my family tradition I learned from strangers that did know my family 50-75 years ago.
Our county is still "dry" but they sell alcohol at Walmart in town. I am not sure the per capital use of alcohol is that much lower in the USA than years ago. When I attend trade shows and other social events I see a lot of people out of it from drinking alcohol.
Due to my physical limitations from arthritis walking is already harder than for most and I really do not need to add alcohol on top of my current limitations. With that being said I am not going to work against the rights of others to buy beer at WM, etc. I think it is silly that WM has to cover it with a trap at midnight Sat until midnight Sun. Some of the churches fought on both sides of the wet/dry voting.
I know people that drink alcohol that have not hurt their health the way that I did abusing non alcoholic carbs.
Abuse is abuse and addiction is addiction regardless of what one is consuming out of control.
Some people can play with fire and cook a nice meal and some only wind up burning down the house so to speak.
What do carbs have to do with any of this?
And to use your own analogy, you only learn how to cook a meal by not sitting in a corner afraid of burning down your house.12 -
Just chiming in here..
As a 23 year old, fresh out of college (well, almost a year and a half out), I've noticed this intense obsession with alcohol. Back in college I would drink every day, down a growler at a party, etc. I would go out to the bars whenever anyone wanted to and I had the money, house parties were common, that sort of thing. It was all about getting wasted and being social while you did it.
I've noticed that that culture is continuing around me, post-grad. My friends that still live in the college town spend just about every night drinking, it's all about drinking games and wine and doing stuff while drinking. My roommate who just moved out of his parent's house for the first time post-grad was surprised that my s/o and I didn't want to go to the bars on a Friday night, or that we didn't always want to have a beer while we did everything. I'll do that on occasion, but it was weird to see a fresh perspective on our culture back then vs what my s/o and I had cultivated as 'our culture' during our year living together in a different city.
When you're able to take a step back from it, alcohol culture is insane. Paint Nites, for instance, are painting.. while getting drunk. There are happy hour specials everywhere. Fun Runs where you run for charity and then drink a lot. It's a lot easier to notice once you've taken a step back and you have to wonder.. why?
I'm not against people drinking by any means. Everyone can do what they want, and I'll do what I want. I'll go have a good night at a bar, I have whiskey and beer in my apartment, but it takes me months to go through a 24 pack because ehhhh. And half of them I end up giving away.
Granted, I get hungover if I even look at alcohol. It doesn't matter what I eat or how much or how much water I drink or what kind of alcohol I had. Two beers and I'm drunk all night and destroyed the next morning.2 -
I think hangovers are a pretty bizarre phenomenon also. I'm sitting here trying to think of an analogy and I can't. This one time not in band camp I put so much butter on my homemade popcorn that I woke up in the middle of the night to vomit. Never again did I put that much better on my popcorn. Rationally speaking a person should have one hangover and then not repeat that. Yet speaking for myself I spent the last 15 plus years hung over more often than not. Think about what would happen if you woke up in the morning with all the symptoms of a really bad hangover but you hadn't drank the night before. You would probably go to the hospital. Another interesting observation: everyone has woken up at some point and said I wish I didn't drink so much last night. No one has ever woken up and said I wish I drank more last night.
Again no judgments here. Just observations. Today is 97 days sober for me. My life is actually beginning to come together for the first time. An important part of my therapy is to de-romanticize my drug of choice. For an interesting book on alcohol and Society I strongly recommend "This naked mind."
ETA: I noticed a few people up thread expressing that they feel offended by someone else's post. I can somewhat relate to that. Let's just say I'm slightly miffed by the characterization of teetotalers as boring stuffy lame miserable at cetera. For me this is a life-or-death issue. I put myself in the hospital twice and ruined countless relationships. So I'm going to choose to stay alive even if it does God forbid make me boring.
People suffer adverse affects from pleasurable activities but continue them all the time. It's not limited to alcohol. Sex would be a good example.3 -
I always found alcohol in society to be a very interesting topic.
I spent a good portion of my 4 years in undergrad drinking. It was a way of coping with stress (the school I went to has a Urban Dictionary definition comparing the graduates to rabid parrots....whoever wrote that has been to that school).
I got out into the real world and ended up on a traveling crew spending much of my first 5 years of my career overseas. I thought alcohol was important in college. When I started traveling, alcohol was the force that bound our universe together. We'd drink together to celebrate the happy events one of our coworkers had to miss because they were in some foreign land with us. We'd drink to drown the sorrows of a cheating SO or the inevitable divorce of one of our coworkers. We'd drink because the customer wanted to go drink. We'd drink because we were lonely. We'd drink to welcome the new people to the project. We'd drink because the hotel had free happy hour and had to take advantage of it!
When we'd come back to the states and would have a large company meeting, there was alcohol served. After 5 years, I was a drunk. I'd call myself an alcoholic, but I was too stupid to seek help when I needed it. Through the strength my wife gave me and the grace of God, I stopped drinking on my own. For about 5 years, I'd be surprised if I drank a 6 pack.
When I quit the traveling life and became an outsider looking in, I was shocked how our world revolved around alcohol. Then I look at society and the life we lived wasn't a strange phenomenon, it was the norm. When society celebrates such as a wedding, we celebrate with alcohol (when I go to a wedding without alcohol, it feels strange). When friends gather socially, often alcohol is a part. When guys get together to watch a football game, it is beer and nachos at a friends house or you meet at a bar. I could go on and on.
So is this a problem?
It wasn't until I had my "sober period" in life when I finally gained control of alcohol rather than alcohol was controlling me that I realized that it was an issue. I've known alcoholics and I flirted heavily with alcoholism myself. There are people who can't have alcohol and being around it is a temptation that those people should not have to bear. The fact that these people have to bear the burden of sobriety in a situation where societies norm is to have alcohol is an issue.
I wish I would have realized that fact when I was younger and I wish I had been more respectful to those who could not or did not want to drink.
I imagine it can be hard for someone that would like to drink but can't or shouldn't at social functions. But is it any harder than it is for someone that can't or shouldn't eat certain foods at a social function where they are served? Is it harder than it is for someone that would like to dance but can't for medical reasons? Or other similar circumstances.
It seems unrealistic to expect a bride and groom to forgo the champagne toast because Uncle Joe is a recovering alcoholic, or Aunt Jo to not bring her famous peanut butter pie to the family reunions because cousin Stew has a peanut allergy.5 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
I've found the opposite, but I'm sure it's down to the people you tend to hand around with rather than a truism for all of the US. In my case, people just don't seem to think that I'm having 'the complete experience' if I don't have a drink in my hand. It's usually not a friend who should know better, but on a couple of occasions it has been.
One of those friends I got so frustrated with after about an hour of continual harassment about it that I ended up cussing her out (not something I ever do) and she didn't speak to me for about a week afterwards. Perhaps it doesn't count because she Australian and not American, though she was living here at the time (grad student).
ETA: On further reflection, I'm realizing that the majority of the people who seem bothered by the fact that I don't drink at dinner or at events are co-workers. And that the vast majority of my co-workers are originally from a variety of other countries though many have lived here for years. Hmm.
Also, I'll also mention that if there is hard liquor available at one of these dinners or events (I'll have a cocktail now and again, I don't like most wine or beer) I still won't drink with these people. Work + alcohol is an absolute no-go in my book. God only knows what I might say without proper guards on my tongue.3 -
Again no judgments here. Just observations. Today is 97 days sober for me. My life is actually beginning to come together for the first time. An important part of my therapy is to de-romanticize my drug of choice. For an interesting book on alcohol and Society I strongly recommend "This naked mind."
ETA: I noticed a few people up thread expressing that they feel offended by someone else's post. I can somewhat relate to that. Let's just say I'm slightly miffed by the characterization of teetotalers as boring stuffy lame miserable at cetera. For me this is a life-or-death issue. I put myself in the hospital twice and ruined countless relationships. So I'm going to choose to stay alive even if it does God forbid make me boring.
Congratulations on your recognition and recovery!
I think you're missing the point on teetotalers. It's not the ones that don't drink, but those who press personal views onto others. As a general rule, don't eff with the liberty of others and we'll all get along.
Same with vegans, ketos, religious zealots, etc. - do as you do, but preaching to the uninterested isn't just bad form, it's really bad marketing.5 -
I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!3 -
Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.
I'm scared to say anything because I imbibe
I do, too. Sometimes more than I would prefer, but not in the quantities I used to.
My thoughts about alcohol and society are around how alcohol use by women seems to be increasing. I just started reading this book "Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol" - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BATKXMU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1https://amazon.com/dp/B00BATKXMU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 so far, it's been really interesting.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?0 -
I hope my questions above didn't come across as confrontational (someone marking questions as awesome seems odd somehow). I was genuinely curious about the answers. I'm finding the different in perceptions of societies very interesting.1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I hope my questions above didn't come across as confrontational (someone marking questions as awesome seems odd somehow). I was genuinely curious about the answers. I'm finding the different in perceptions of societies very interesting.
I think the difference of perception is going to greatly depend on a person's life experience. Obviously a non-drinker is going to experience things that a drinker has never experienced or thought about. And vice versa. It's like that with all life experiences. And this is no exception.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?
Commercials, movies, tv shows, family gatherings, to have fun at a party....that's what I mean by encourage...its so subtle. I can't tell you how many times a friend or someone would say to me, "you are going to have a drink tonight!...it's your birthday, it's nye's, it's the holiday, it's someone else's bday, you are depressed - drink, you are happy - drink, you need to relax - drink, you got a job promotion - drink." I still know people whose goal is to get me drunk one day.
Edit - I would like to add, this is my observation and my personal experience.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?
Commercials, movies, tv shows, family gatherings, to have fun at a party....that's what I mean by encourage...its so subtle. I can't tell you how many times a friend or someone would say to me, "you are going to have a drink tonight!...it's your birthday, it's nye's, it's the holiday, it's someone else's bday, you are depressed - drink, you are happy - drink, you need to relax - drink, you got a job promotion - drink." I still know people whose goal is to get me drunk one day.
Edit - I would like to add, this is my observation and my personal experience.
Yeah, I knew it was personal experience, that's what so interesting to me - the differences in personal experiences. I don't know your age but I wonder if you are fairly young (I'm 53). Maybe I had similar experiences when younger and just don't remember them the same way.
Not all our friends are our age but other than our children most are > 40 and most, but not all, drink. I can't imagine anyone in our circle acting as you suggest above, or the action begin tolerated if they did. We're all pretty laid back.0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.2 -
"but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved."
What the hell??2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.
I never said it was right. And I initially stated that my comment was somewhat off topic. I'm also fine with you not agreeing with me.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
I'm a little confused by your response as I wasn't looking for a fight. I was just pointing out that we don't see a business meeting where heroin is used because people at a business meeting aren't looking to go to jail. And the body's response to even a small dose would likely prohibit rational discussion or decision. Whereas other legal mood altering drugs are commonly used, even served, at business meetings because like alcohol the risk of arrest is removed and in moderate doses the body's response still allows rational thought.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
I'm a little confused by your response as I wasn't looking for a fight. I was just pointing out that we don't see a business meeting where heroin is used because people at a business meeting aren't looking to go to jail. And the body's response to even a small dose would likely prohibit rational discussion or decision. Whereas other legal mood altering drugs are commonly used, even served, at business meetings because like alcohol the risk of arrest is removed and in moderate doses the body's response still allows rational thought.
This is absolutely true. Humans bond over eating and drinking so most business meetings involve this to some extent. It relaxes people. Day meetings tend to involve caffeine, night meetings alcohol but there are always alternatives on offer. The main point is the act of breaking bread together as a group.
ETA heroin is not a bonding experience in any way2 -
CasperNaegle wrote: »"but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved."
What the hell??
I suppose it's true. We've never had heroin at an office Christmas party.
Probably because it's illegal and all, among other reasons.
Not sure why this is meaningful.4
This discussion has been closed.
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