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Alcohol and Society
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
I've found the opposite, but I'm sure it's down to the people you tend to hand around with rather than a truism for all of the US. In my case, people just don't seem to think that I'm having 'the complete experience' if I don't have a drink in my hand. It's usually not a friend who should know better, but on a couple of occasions it has been.
One of those friends I got so frustrated with after about an hour of continual harassment about it that I ended up cussing her out (not something I ever do) and she didn't speak to me for about a week afterwards. Perhaps it doesn't count because she Australian and not American, though she was living here at the time (grad student).
ETA: On further reflection, I'm realizing that the majority of the people who seem bothered by the fact that I don't drink at dinner or at events are co-workers. And that the vast majority of my co-workers are originally from a variety of other countries though many have lived here for years. Hmm.
Also, I'll also mention that if there is hard liquor available at one of these dinners or events (I'll have a cocktail now and again, I don't like most wine or beer) I still won't drink with these people. Work + alcohol is an absolute no-go in my book. God only knows what I might say without proper guards on my tongue.3 -
Again no judgments here. Just observations. Today is 97 days sober for me. My life is actually beginning to come together for the first time. An important part of my therapy is to de-romanticize my drug of choice. For an interesting book on alcohol and Society I strongly recommend "This naked mind."
ETA: I noticed a few people up thread expressing that they feel offended by someone else's post. I can somewhat relate to that. Let's just say I'm slightly miffed by the characterization of teetotalers as boring stuffy lame miserable at cetera. For me this is a life-or-death issue. I put myself in the hospital twice and ruined countless relationships. So I'm going to choose to stay alive even if it does God forbid make me boring.
Congratulations on your recognition and recovery!
I think you're missing the point on teetotalers. It's not the ones that don't drink, but those who press personal views onto others. As a general rule, don't eff with the liberty of others and we'll all get along.
Same with vegans, ketos, religious zealots, etc. - do as you do, but preaching to the uninterested isn't just bad form, it's really bad marketing.5 -
I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!3 -
Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.
I'm scared to say anything because I imbibe
I do, too. Sometimes more than I would prefer, but not in the quantities I used to.
My thoughts about alcohol and society are around how alcohol use by women seems to be increasing. I just started reading this book "Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol" - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BATKXMU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1https://amazon.com/dp/B00BATKXMU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 so far, it's been really interesting.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?0 -
I hope my questions above didn't come across as confrontational (someone marking questions as awesome seems odd somehow). I was genuinely curious about the answers. I'm finding the different in perceptions of societies very interesting.1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I hope my questions above didn't come across as confrontational (someone marking questions as awesome seems odd somehow). I was genuinely curious about the answers. I'm finding the different in perceptions of societies very interesting.
I think the difference of perception is going to greatly depend on a person's life experience. Obviously a non-drinker is going to experience things that a drinker has never experienced or thought about. And vice versa. It's like that with all life experiences. And this is no exception.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?
Commercials, movies, tv shows, family gatherings, to have fun at a party....that's what I mean by encourage...its so subtle. I can't tell you how many times a friend or someone would say to me, "you are going to have a drink tonight!...it's your birthday, it's nye's, it's the holiday, it's someone else's bday, you are depressed - drink, you are happy - drink, you need to relax - drink, you got a job promotion - drink." I still know people whose goal is to get me drunk one day.
Edit - I would like to add, this is my observation and my personal experience.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I agree with you. I do not drink or smoke and never used drugs (even weed) - Damn, what a boring life....but I say all that to say, my family abused all of the above and that kinda scared me str8...But I would like to add, that I am really concerned, scared and sad with the heroine abuse. This is what I am an advocate for. It's tearing up families and attacking our culture at alarming rates! Sorry to get off topic, but this is where my immediate issue and attention is going towards....
But I agree with you...drinking is more the socially accepted thing now...and is even encouraged!
Encouraged? In what way and by whom? I could see that in the very young (teenagers / young adults) but on a societal level?
When you say more socially acceptable now, when timeframe are you comparing to? More acceptable now than when?
Commercials, movies, tv shows, family gatherings, to have fun at a party....that's what I mean by encourage...its so subtle. I can't tell you how many times a friend or someone would say to me, "you are going to have a drink tonight!...it's your birthday, it's nye's, it's the holiday, it's someone else's bday, you are depressed - drink, you are happy - drink, you need to relax - drink, you got a job promotion - drink." I still know people whose goal is to get me drunk one day.
Edit - I would like to add, this is my observation and my personal experience.
Yeah, I knew it was personal experience, that's what so interesting to me - the differences in personal experiences. I don't know your age but I wonder if you are fairly young (I'm 53). Maybe I had similar experiences when younger and just don't remember them the same way.
Not all our friends are our age but other than our children most are > 40 and most, but not all, drink. I can't imagine anyone in our circle acting as you suggest above, or the action begin tolerated if they did. We're all pretty laid back.0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.2 -
"but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved."
What the hell??2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
Heroin does not equal alcohol in any way shape or form. Stop it.
I have a right to post my opinion like anyone else...so you stop. I initially stated where my focus was and I compared how alcohol is more socially accepted....and gave an example since she questioned ME.
Still no where close to heroin. Heroin has nothing to do with the OP. Clumping things together does not make it right just because it's your experience.
I never said it was right. And I initially stated that my comment was somewhat off topic. I'm also fine with you not agreeing with me.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
I'm a little confused by your response as I wasn't looking for a fight. I was just pointing out that we don't see a business meeting where heroin is used because people at a business meeting aren't looking to go to jail. And the body's response to even a small dose would likely prohibit rational discussion or decision. Whereas other legal mood altering drugs are commonly used, even served, at business meetings because like alcohol the risk of arrest is removed and in moderate doses the body's response still allows rational thought.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
Well I for one am stating my opinion and by no means think I am superior to anyone else. I have my 'thing' like everyone else - it's just not drinking, and that makes me no better or superior to anyone. It's a matter of perception to me. As for me with stating 'socially accepted' I have seen where it was okay for a business meeting to happen over dinner and drinks, after hour work events to happen with drinks involved, sporting events, etc....and it is not frowned upon...but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved.
I never suggested you thought you were superior.
Actually you see it happening with other drugs quite often. Not heroin, because heroin is illegal, but with drugs like caffeine and nicotine. Lawful vs. unlawful is a pretty big deal, don't you think?
Thank you. I tend to be sensitive with this subject, because I would rather reach/help people than have them think that they can't speak to me because I never indulged. I would NEVER want anyone to think that I am superior. And I feel like I have to defend myself on something that I am passionate about on here. So if it is a lawful or unlawful I care not to go there because I choose not to internet fight today over my opinions and belief. Maybe on a better day
I'm a little confused by your response as I wasn't looking for a fight. I was just pointing out that we don't see a business meeting where heroin is used because people at a business meeting aren't looking to go to jail. And the body's response to even a small dose would likely prohibit rational discussion or decision. Whereas other legal mood altering drugs are commonly used, even served, at business meetings because like alcohol the risk of arrest is removed and in moderate doses the body's response still allows rational thought.
This is absolutely true. Humans bond over eating and drinking so most business meetings involve this to some extent. It relaxes people. Day meetings tend to involve caffeine, night meetings alcohol but there are always alternatives on offer. The main point is the act of breaking bread together as a group.
ETA heroin is not a bonding experience in any way2 -
CasperNaegle wrote: »"but you do not see the same events happening with heroine or other drugs involved."
What the hell??
I suppose it's true. We've never had heroin at an office Christmas party.
Probably because it's illegal and all, among other reasons.
Not sure why this is meaningful.4
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