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Alcohol and Society
Replies
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Huh. Hubs and I have drank every weekend, give or take, for 23 years.....We even got a little sloshed on the night we met! The only dangerous thing that came from that was now I have to listen to him snore every nite! I understand that alcohol can lower inhibitions, but we still need to own our actions, booze or no booze.1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
OH MY GOD! what f'ing planet do you f'ing live on...oh look..i said that completely sober!
You are so screwed up in your thoughts its beyond belief. I am a drinker and I am completely OFFENDED by the utterly uneducated and utterly ridiculous statements you make. I am not a violent person. it doesn't matter if i'm drinking or not drinking. I have the same empathy and care for the "drunk" next to me at the bar stool as i would if i'm sober. Good god. you don't like drinking fine. but for the love of pete...stop trying to be holier than thou and for gods sake, stop generalizing people based upon their personal decision to drink or not.
SMH. Good Lord.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Oh please! Don't be ridiculous. I say I don't drink during pregnancies and you pull some random timeframe out of your um, head, that you think is longer than I've gone without drinking. But, it's all just made up nonsense. First of all, I've gone longer than year without drinking. Who drinks while they are trying to conceive? And I usually didn't start drinking for a few months after giving birth to give my body a chance to recover (I'm pretty health conscious) . It was longer than a year every single time. *BOOM*
Alcohol does make some people aggressive, just like it makes some people weepy, some people clingy (the "I love you man" people), etc. IDK if you have some bad experiences with drinkers in your personal life and think everyone is like that or just live in a really bad neighborhood region. But you can't judge the entire library by the cover of one book.
And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would really need to spend a lot of time around a large group of drinkers to understand. Like at least 15 months around 15 drinkers at minimum to understand.11 -
Tomk652015 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
OH MY GOD! what f'ing planet do you f'ing live on...oh look..i said that completely sober!
You are so screwed up in your thoughts its beyond belief. I am a drinker and I am completely OFFENDED by the utterly uneducated and utterly ridiculous statements you make. I am not a violent person. it doesn't matter if i'm drinking or not drinking. I have the same empathy and care for the "drunk" next to me at the bar stool as i would if i'm sober. Good god. you don't like drinking fine. but for the love of pete...stop trying to be holier than thou and for gods sake, stop generalizing people based upon their personal decision to drink or not.
SMH. Good Lord.
For heaven's sake. Calm down. It was just a general post. Not directed at you personally. Apparently you took it personally.
you absolutely generalized the entire population who drinks. you did not qualify your statements. you're rude, absolutely utterly un-insightful and disillusion about society in general. Just move along!6 -
Like I said I didn't drink for a year. I did recently try again and had a relapse of my medical condition. But, I don't see any violence when around people drinking. I think this might have something to do with the people you are with and what they are doing. I just see people relaxed, having fun, letting go of some inhibition (to dance). But, like I said, you don't need alcohol for that. But some people prefer it. And that's ok. It's silly to have an us against them mentality whether you drink or don't drink. But, I understand what people mean. They are using the word teetotaler to be interchangeable with judgy people. I do find certain judgy people to be the most miserable. But, there are judgy people that drink or don't drink. I encounter a lot of straight laced people, intolerant to anything different from them, "shocked" by people being uninhibited (or sexuality) that drink. They sit around on their grumpy butts drinking and judging. Lol
Edit to add: I also went for up to a decade without drinking.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Oh please! Don't be ridiculous. I say I don't drink during pregnancies and you pull some random timeframe out of your um, head, that you think is longer than I've gone without drinking. But, it's all just made up nonsense. First of all, I've gone longer than year without drinking. Who drinks while they are trying to conceive? And I usually didn't start drinking for a few months after giving birth to give my body a chance to recover (I'm pretty health conscious) . It was longer than a year every single time. *BOOM*
Alcohol does make some people aggressive, just like it makes some people weepy, some people clingy (the "I love you man" people), etc. IDK if you have some bad experiences with drinkers in your personal life and think everyone is like that or just live in a really bad neighborhood region. But you can't judge the entire library by the cover of one book.
And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would really need to spend a lot of time around a large group of drinkers to understand. Like at least 15 months around 15 drinkers at minimum to understand.
No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you drank while you were pregnant or when you were trying to conceive. Wasn't doing that. The one year time frame I used as an example was a personal example (stopped drinking in the year 2000) and also one accepted as a general time frame by lots of non drinkers I know. Making the decision to stop drinking permanently and then doing it really does change everything, including the way you think and perceive things.
As for the second bolded paragraph, believe me, I'm no stranger to drinkers and drinking. My immediate and extended family is saturated in booze. I knew what whisky smelled like on my father's breath before I knew what cotton candy smelled like. I drank liberally myself and also served alcohol, full time, for a living between the ages of 16 and 32. I'm not proud to say I derived my income, at that time, from serving alcohol. I've been surrounded by all types of drinkers from all walks of life and I used to love the swill myself. I'll stand by my original statement that no good comes from the drinking and that the topic itself, when discussed in detail and with personal anecdotes, is inflammatory.
And with that I'm out
your disillusion. and your opinions are that, opinions derived by your personal experiences. you can't generalize all of society on your own opinions. its tantamount to saying that if you were abused by your father, that all fathers are abusers. You statements are ridiculous. making the decision to stop drinking does change "everything" including the way you think is pure nonsense and only an opinion and you should qualify your statements as such.4 -
Tomk652015 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Oh please! Don't be ridiculous. I say I don't drink during pregnancies and you pull some random timeframe out of your um, head, that you think is longer than I've gone without drinking. But, it's all just made up nonsense. First of all, I've gone longer than year without drinking. Who drinks while they are trying to conceive? And I usually didn't start drinking for a few months after giving birth to give my body a chance to recover (I'm pretty health conscious) . It was longer than a year every single time. *BOOM*
Alcohol does make some people aggressive, just like it makes some people weepy, some people clingy (the "I love you man" people), etc. IDK if you have some bad experiences with drinkers in your personal life and think everyone is like that or just live in a really bad neighborhood region. But you can't judge the entire library by the cover of one book.
And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would really need to spend a lot of time around a large group of drinkers to understand. Like at least 15 months around 15 drinkers at minimum to understand.
No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you drank while you were pregnant or when you were trying to conceive. Wasn't doing that. The one year time frame I used as an example was a personal example (stopped drinking in the year 2000) and also one accepted as a general time frame by lots of non drinkers I know. Making the decision to stop drinking permanently and then doing it really does change everything, including the way you think and perceive things.
As for the second bolded paragraph, believe me, I'm no stranger to drinkers and drinking. My immediate and extended family is saturated in booze. I knew what whisky smelled like on my father's breath before I knew what cotton candy smelled like. I drank liberally myself and also served alcohol, full time, for a living between the ages of 16 and 32. I'm not proud to say I derived my income, at that time, from serving alcohol. I've been surrounded by all types of drinkers from all walks of life and I used to love the swill myself. I'll stand by my original statement that no good comes from the drinking and that the topic itself, when discussed in detail and with personal anecdotes, is inflammatory.
And with that I'm out
your disillusion. and your opinions are that, opinions derived by your personal experiences. you can't generalize all of society on your own opinions. its tantamount to saying that if you were abused by your father, that all fathers are abusers. You statements are ridiculous. making the decision to stop drinking does change "everything" including the way you think is pure nonsense and only an opinion and you should qualify your statements as such.
and by the way.... @newmeadow you offend me. just so we're clear.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Oh please! Don't be ridiculous. I say I don't drink during pregnancies and you pull some random timeframe out of your um, head, that you think is longer than I've gone without drinking. But, it's all just made up nonsense. First of all, I've gone longer than year without drinking. Who drinks while they are trying to conceive? And I usually didn't start drinking for a few months after giving birth to give my body a chance to recover (I'm pretty health conscious) . It was longer than a year every single time. *BOOM*
Alcohol does make some people aggressive, just like it makes some people weepy, some people clingy (the "I love you man" people), etc. IDK if you have some bad experiences with drinkers in your personal life and think everyone is like that or just live in a really bad neighborhood region. But you can't judge the entire library by the cover of one book.
And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would really need to spend a lot of time around a large group of drinkers to understand. Like at least 15 months around 15 drinkers at minimum to understand.
No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you drank while you were pregnant or when you were trying to conceive. Wasn't doing that. The one year time frame I used as an example was a personal example (stopped drinking in the year 2000) and also one accepted as a general time frame by lots of non drinkers I know. Making the decision to stop drinking permanently and then doing it really does change everything, including the way you think and perceive things.
As for the second bolded paragraph, believe me, I'm no stranger to drinkers and drinking. My immediate and extended family is saturated in booze. I knew what whisky smelled like on my father's breath before I knew what cotton candy smelled like. I drank liberally myself and also served alcohol, full time, for a living between the ages of 16 and 32. I'm not proud to say I derived my income, at that time, from serving alcohol. I've been surrounded by all types of drinkers from all walks of life and I used to love the swill myself. I'll stand by my original statement that no good comes from the drinking and that the topic itself, when discussed in detail and with personal anecdotes, is inflammatory.
And with that I'm out
And with that he mounted his high horse and rode away.7 -
dumb *kitten*2
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Just curious - do you notice this aggression and potential danger in others after acting in a manner as you say "without wanting to seem condescending"? This scenario sounds like a reaction to passive aggressive behavior and not influenced by alcohol.
Could you reword? I'm not really understanding the question completely. I think you're pointing out my own wording to be aggressive, or perhaps passively aggressive. Or are you saying I'm responding to what I perceive as passive aggression? I just want to understand before I respond in full.
You are being passive aggressive, which is likely why you perceive hostility and aggression around you. Also why people respond aggressively and why you play the victim once confronted.
You admit you have had negative experiences with alcohol and with your family and alcohol and I'm sorry for that, but don't project your negative experiences or personal misgivings onto others. This is why people have an issue with teetotalers. It's never enough that you just don't drink, but you want to enforce your beliefs onto others. Your freedom ends where mine begins.8 -
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ever been the only sober person in a group of drinkers? You'd better have a slightly dark sense of humor, because it's not funny.
Yep. Also, there's a slight vibe of danger that always seems to be lurking in the environment amidst the guffaws and raised voices and exaggerated interactions - something I never noticed when I was a drinker myself. I'll stick around for one hour tops, if I have to, but after a half hour it's barely tolerable.
Lurking danger vibe? Wow, where the heck do you hang out? Having been pregnant multiple times I've spent my fair share of time as a sober person around drinkers. I don't know that I've ever felt any danger vibes. Certainly not from the people I was with. I was at a bar once where a couple of women got in a fight, but they were quickly removed from the premises and I can't say I felt any danger from the incident.
The ability to assess a situation for potential danger is greatly enhanced when one's been abstinent from alcohol for awhile. Generally one year plus. And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would have to be abstinent from alcohol for about a year to get this. The danger doesn't have to be the idea or possibility of people pulling out guns and starting a shootout. It's more an ability to sense the underlying aggression that drinking alcohol fuels, in almost everyone who drinks it. And the potential for that aggression (including passive aggression) to take on a life of its own. It's quite palpable in the air at any gathering of drinkers. Now whether the drinkers realize this conundrum or not (which they almost always heartily deny when presented with rhetorical questions on such) is a whole 'nuther discussion I suppose - and probably a pretty flammable one.
Oh please! Don't be ridiculous. I say I don't drink during pregnancies and you pull some random timeframe out of your um, head, that you think is longer than I've gone without drinking. But, it's all just made up nonsense. First of all, I've gone longer than year without drinking. Who drinks while they are trying to conceive? And I usually didn't start drinking for a few months after giving birth to give my body a chance to recover (I'm pretty health conscious) . It was longer than a year every single time. *BOOM*
Alcohol does make some people aggressive, just like it makes some people weepy, some people clingy (the "I love you man" people), etc. IDK if you have some bad experiences with drinkers in your personal life and think everyone is like that or just live in a really bad neighborhood region. But you can't judge the entire library by the cover of one book.
And without wanting to seem condescending in saying this, one would really need to spend a lot of time around a large group of drinkers to understand. Like at least 15 months around 15 drinkers at minimum to understand.
Oh I'd say more like 23 months with at least 23 drinkers. And one of them would have to be drinking Kahlua and wearing purple in order to for anyone to gain any real 'insight'.
But this is why people don't invite passive aggressive teetotalers to parties. They're just no fun and spend their time coming up with ridiculous theories about why every one else having fun is a bad thing.
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Wow, I drink maybe once every other month or so and I feel offended by this holier than thou attitude.4
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Alluminati wrote: »
How did we end up in the darkest timeline?!1 -
There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.3
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.
I'm scared to say anything because I imbibe0 -
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Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.
I'm scared to say anything because I imbibe
I understand that feeling. I'm not judging anyone. And probably most people aren't. But, sometimes the most judgy people end up dominating. And then the conversation becomes more adversarial than it would have been. Sorry you feel that way.1 -
Karb_Kween wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »There are really only about two people doing the extreme no alcohol judgement thing in this thread. Meh, who cares. It's like when there is a thread about sex and people come in to say: I have never had a one night stand because I am classy. It's fine to never have a one night stand. It's following it with a stupid judgement that makes the whole environment feel uncomfortable and awkward. Like this thread that could have been an interesting conversation, but now it's just dealing with the judgment and reactions. Definitely a dumpster fire now.
I'm scared to say anything because I imbibe
Well yeah?! Your judgement is all off and this might happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsci--s8J48
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Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
I think this is true with all of societal issues...sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. Socrates defined this best - that there are extremes on both ends and the "best" is found somewhere in the middle...for all issues. When we have problems it is always the extremists on both ends who create the problems while those in the middle (the moderates) are left to sort it out.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
There's an old saying 'misery loves company'. I guess if you're going to abstain from pleasurable activities it makes it easier if everyone else abstains from them too? And proselytizing increases an abstainers sense of moral superiority (which I guess is a rush/drug in its own way...)4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Getting back to society, the thing I notice most about society's views on alcohol is that more people who don't drink think everyone should not drink, than people who drink think everyone should drink. And a lot of those that think no one should drink seem to think themselves superior in some way to those that drink.
Those are of course grand generalizations and not always true, but IDK how to talk about "society" without generalizations. But it seems true more often than not to me.
I think this is true with all of societal issues...sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. Socrates defined this best - that there are extremes on both ends and the "best" is found somewhere in the middle...for all issues. When we have problems it is always the extremists on both ends who create the problems while those in the middle (the moderates) are left to sort it out.
I agree with this. But, some people have good reason why they personally don't drink. And doesn't mean they apply it to everyone. You just never hear from them. I just think it's weird to judge a person only based on whether they drink or not (in general, not saying anyone is). My husband doesn't drink. He never says it to anyone (I am the one saying it about him). He doesn't ever want attention drawn to it or to explain it. And he doesn't. Sometimes he has awkward moments when people try to get him to have a drink. He just says no. And he tries to have a coke in his hand when he knows there is going to be a toast. I'm only mentioning this because it's in the context of an online discussion. But, I would never write it on a profile, or say it in any real life context. But, maybe I shouldn't even mention it in a discussion either. So, it's not a person's personal choices that are extreme. It's a mental attitude. And the extreme people are vocal. I'm kind of not even sure how I ended up getting involved in this conversation in the first place. It's not a conversation I would ever have in real life.
I think social events would be boring if everyone was forced not to drink. It's a personal choice. When each person does what they personally enjoy then everyone is having fun their way, together. But, I know I keep saying the same thing.3 -
I think hangovers are a pretty bizarre phenomenon also. I'm sitting here trying to think of an analogy and I can't. This one time not in band camp I put so much butter on my homemade popcorn that I woke up in the middle of the night to vomit. Never again did I put that much better on my popcorn. Rationally speaking a person should have one hangover and then not repeat that. Yet speaking for myself I spent the last 15 plus years hung over more often than not. Think about what would happen if you woke up in the morning with all the symptoms of a really bad hangover but you hadn't drank the night before. You would probably go to the hospital. Another interesting observation: everyone has woken up at some point and said I wish I didn't drink so much last night. No one has ever woken up and said I wish I drank more last night.
Again no judgments here. Just observations. Today is 97 days sober for me. My life is actually beginning to come together for the first time. An important part of my therapy is to de-romanticize my drug of choice. For an interesting book on alcohol and Society I strongly recommend "This naked mind."
ETA: I noticed a few people up thread expressing that they feel offended by someone else's post. I can somewhat relate to that. Let's just say I'm slightly miffed by the characterization of teetotalers as boring stuffy lame miserable at cetera. For me this is a life-or-death issue. I put myself in the hospital twice and ruined countless relationships. So I'm going to choose to stay alive even if it does God forbid make me boring.15 -
ooohh yes, the hangover is a big motivator not to overdo it..
This probably doesn't apply to any of you, but lets not forget the cooked brain. A family friend of ours used to be so bright and funny, but now at the age of 60 her brain is well and truly pickled
She drank heavily nearly everyday of her adult life and now she's paying the price. She has apparently been diagnosed with alcohol induced dementia. 0 -
@zamphir66 Good for you getting sober! And reflecting on it. You won't be boring!!! I think they mean that they know teetotalers that are a certain way. Not that all are that way. I was also thinking about the advertising. And how we can use it as one of many opportunities to teach our kids about the advertisement industry. Not that there is anything wrong with it's existence. It's an important aspect of consumerism. But, to teach them to understand the glitz of it all and to make informed decisions not easily swayed by advertisement. On the hangover issue I understand. And goes hand in hand with the life or death issue. The ability to ignore the damage. I have a family member that is told she is going to die if she doesn't stop drinking. She has multiple internal organ damage. That's very hard to watch a loved one self destruct like that at a young age.
@Christine_72 My grandfather has cirrhosis of the liver and alcohol induced dementia. He was a good guy. But, he had a lot of pain in his life. When he turned to alcohol for more than just a social fun time, he became difficult. So, even though the dementia is challenging, I think life has become better because he is kinder now and less mean and hurtful.0 -
I either don't get hangovers or if I do its not the worst thing that can happen to me
I take hangovers as a disciplinary lesson and I don't go out of my way to avoid them, but also I'm not one to get them often either
Keep in mind, I tend to drink copious amounts with the right oppurtunity2 -
If we're going to whine about our feelings being hurt, I'll be over here with the cheese tray.
As to scientific research linking aggressive behavior to alcohol, the evidence is legion. I'm on a phone so I'm not going to do your work for you, but a trip to scholar.google.com and the search term for "alcohol consumption and aggression" should seriously keep anyone interested in that field busy for weeks. They're trying to establish specific genes that are predictive for the most dramatic effects. The scientists aren't arguing about if it happens or what the magnitude is, they're looking at the biochemical mechanisms now.6 -
I wonder if anyone feels the same way I do about just how ingrained alcohol is in our culture. I.E., slightly disturbed.
Now I'm not advocating for some kind of neo-prohibitionist movement. But it is profoundly curious how smoking has become, for the most part, socially censured -- while alcohol, which can be so much more immediately harmful -- is celebrated. I don't think it would be a bad thing to trim back on booze advertising the same way as we've done with tobacco.
Consider: by several measures, alcohol rates as the most harmful drug. Here's one of several sources on that -- http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
Also consider: the top decile (10%) of drinkers consumes 73 standard drinks a week. Source -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/
Many probably drink even more than that, as alcoholics are notorious for under-reporting intake. The real important point of that data, in my mind, is that alcohol's entire modern business structure is supported by the top 10-15% of drinkers. (In business, this is called the Paretto Principle.) We have mega-brewers and multinational brands and are saturated in advertising because of the people who drink way too much by any objective measure. To put it another way: when you go out for drinks with friends, the reason you have so many options of where to go and what to drink is because 1 in 10 of your fellow citizens is quite literally killing themselves, and their consumption props up the whole business.
I think many of us go through lots of mental gymnastics to justify consuming something that actually is bad for you. This isn't sugar, or candy bars, or lattes we're talking about. And before anyone chimes in with the health benefits: My understanding is that any benefits have been grossly exaggerated, while downsides have been underplayed. IIRC, the specific compounds in red wine that are supposed to be 'heart healthy' can just as easily be gotten from grape juice.
So what's the debate? I guess it's this:
Do you there's nothing wrong with how our society looks at alcohol? A little bit wrong? Or a lot wrong?
Having 5 uncles that died prematurely or suffered greatly from alcohol abuse along with their families I was lucky that my father quit alcohol at the age of 16 and quit smoking at the age of 22 so I was never around it and yet knew the down side. After I realized I had abused non alcohol carbs for 40 years then I better understood my uncles. Getting drunk then fighting was my family tradition I learned from strangers that did know my family 50-75 years ago.
Our county is still "dry" but they sell alcohol at Walmart in town. I am not sure the per capital use of alcohol is that much lower in the USA than years ago. When I attend trade shows and other social events I see a lot of people out of it from drinking alcohol.
Due to my physical limitations from arthritis walking is already harder than for most and I really do not need to add alcohol on top of my current limitations. With that being said I am not going to work against the rights of others to buy beer at WM, etc. I think it is silly that WM has to cover it with a trap at midnight Sat until midnight Sun. Some of the churches fought on both sides of the wet/dry voting.
I know people that drink alcohol that have not hurt their health the way that I did abusing non alcoholic carbs.
Abuse is abuse and addiction is addiction regardless of what one is consuming out of control.
Some people can play with fire and cook a nice meal and some only wind up burning down the house so to speak.
4 -
They haven't started selling alcohol in stores or supermarkets here... yet. It was brought up last year, but our government shot it down quick smart!0
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