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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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I'm a chronic asthmatic with pre-emphysemic lung tissue and 60% lung capacity. I also have three chikdren in school/uni and as a massage therapist I spend an hour at a time in a small closed room with each client, touching their hands and faces etc, so I am at a high risk of exposure to whatever bug is going around. Given that influenza would likely kill me, I am very "pro" flu shots for myself. (And I'm also rather picky about disinfecting my studio door handles, and thorough handwashing)3
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Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
There is no muddling through the work day with the flu, the flu hits you fast and hard! It's like getting hit by a Mack truck. The last time I had the flu, my doc asked me why didn't I come in earlier to see her but I was so completely out of it.
Thanks. I guess I have not had the flu. Maybe 20 years of high dosage fish oil protected me.2 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »I suspect anyone who thinks people with flu are hypochondriacs who should suck it up,has probably never had real flu.
I agree that there are some who have maybe a fluey cold who claim to have flu. Real flu,however,is pretty nasty even for healthy people.
That's exactly what he said - that he's never had flu (despite not having shots either).0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
Last time I had the flu I couldn't walk from my bed to the bathroom, I had to crawl. I had such a high fever that I was hallucinating, and pretty much lost about 36 hours.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
Last time I had the flu I couldn't walk from my bed to the bathroom, I had to crawl. I had such a high fever that I was hallucinating, and pretty much lost about 36 hours.
Same here. Had a toddler at the time and hubby and I both came down with 'flu while driving back froma trip out of town. We got home, put ourselves to bed with high fever, chills, excrutiatingly sore skin, severe joint pain for 24 hours, along with the more standard sore throat, runny nose etc. I have no idea how we managed, but our toddler didnt get sick, and to this day I have no idea how we managed to keep her fed and toileted, but I can tell you she got a hell of a lot of tv time that day (in the days before smartphones and ipads LOL)1 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »I suspect anyone who thinks people with flu are hypochondriacs who should suck it up,has probably never had real flu.
I agree that there are some who have maybe a fluey cold who claim to have flu. Real flu,however,is pretty nasty even for healthy people.
That's exactly what he said - that he's never had flu (despite not having shots either).
Then don't judge those who have had it as being hypochondriacs. I'd never presume to know how it feels to have a disease I've not had.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
There is no muddling through the work day with the flu, the flu hits you fast and hard! It's like getting hit by a Mack truck. The last time I had the flu, my doc asked me why didn't I come in earlier to see her but I was so completely out of it.
Thanks. I guess I have not had the flu. Maybe 20 years of high dosage fish oil protected me.
Why would you think that high doses of fish oil would prevent the flu?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
There is no muddling through the work day with the flu, the flu hits you fast and hard! It's like getting hit by a Mack truck. The last time I had the flu, my doc asked me why didn't I come in earlier to see her but I was so completely out of it.
Thanks. I guess I have not had the flu. Maybe 20 years of high dosage fish oil protected me.
Why would you think that high doses of fish oil would prevent the flu?
Perhaps the vitamin D absorption benefit from fish oil is what causes this... considering it in combination with the benefits of vitamin D related to influenza.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
There is no muddling through the work day with the flu, the flu hits you fast and hard! It's like getting hit by a Mack truck. The last time I had the flu, my doc asked me why didn't I come in earlier to see her but I was so completely out of it.
Thanks. I guess I have not had the flu. Maybe 20 years of high dosage fish oil protected me.
I've never had the flu either, and I've never regularly taken fish oil.
It's possible to just be lucky, you know!1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »When you get the flu, there is no denying it or sucking it up.
Does the actual flu put one in bed or can you still muddle through working each day?
If you aren't praying for death, you don't have the flu.6 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Yep, I get the flu shot every year now! The flu sucks!
Same. I've had it three times. (Twice when I was a kid). It was beyond awful.
I'm also immunosuppressed. My whole family gets the shot.2 -
I had the flu when I was in the 7th grade - ended up in the hospital for several days because I literally couldn't drink water w/o throwing up - so no, no muddling thru work or anything else.0
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I have a good immune system and usually don't get the flu. But I did this year! Man do I wish I'd gotten the flu shot. The flu is terrible this year, I was sick for a week and a half.1
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I always get one. I'm a scientist, and if someone I know gets the flu and they generally don't get vaccinated, I don't feel bad for them. No soup for you!! And if you die...3
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I am 69 years old and have never had one. I am very healthy and rarely have any kind of sickness. I think that if you are not healthy you should get them. I also think that if you are healthy you will keep your immune system working better by not getting the shot.2
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thegunsmith1 wrote: »I am 69 years old and have never had one. I am very healthy and rarely have any kind of sickness. I think that if you are not healthy you should get them. I also think that if you are healthy you will keep your immune system working better by not getting the shot.
Even if you are extremely healthy by all standards, the flu can and will knock you on your *kitten*. Even healthy, young people can get the flu and develop complications. e.g. get a super high fever/get dehydrated/get pneumonia and die.
A well functioning immune system will not always save you. Some people who are hospitalized because of the flu are also at risk of getting other infections because their immune system is already compromised.
Many people who die from influenza have a co-morbidity like COPD, Asthma, or something that already compromises the respitory system, but not always.
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thegunsmith1 wrote: »I am 69 years old and have never had one. I am very healthy and rarely have any kind of sickness. I think that if you are not healthy you should get them. I also think that if you are healthy you will keep your immune system working better by not getting the shot.
That's not how immunity systems work. Healthy immune systems function by moderated exposure. Vaccinations provide this exposure to mimic the response of a live virus.
Not getting vaccinated makes about as much sense as not training for a marathon...and then trying to run a marathon.3 -
I have to agree with the 69 year old. Having got on top of my autoimmunity, I do not get ill nor do I intend to have injections full of preservatives, possibly mercury and other minerals which are antagonist to my system. The one time I had a flu jab because an elderly resident in a care facility where I worked was compromised, I've never been so very ill.2
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I have to agree with the 69 year old. Having got on top of my autoimmunity, I do not get ill nor do I intend to have injections full of preservatives, possibly mercury and other minerals which are antagonist to my system. The one time I had a flu jab because an elderly resident in a care facility where I worked was compromised, I've never been so very ill.
Single dose flu shots don't contain preservatives, you can simply request one of those. They're not rare -- every year I get the flu vaccine and it's automatically been the single dose or pre-filled syringes that don't contain preservatives.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I have to agree with the 69 year old. Having got on top of my autoimmunity, I do not get ill nor do I intend to have injections full of preservatives, possibly mercury and other minerals which are antagonist to my system. The one time I had a flu jab because an elderly resident in a care facility where I worked was compromised, I've never been so very ill.
Single dose flu shots don't contain preservatives, you can simply request one of those. They're not rare -- every year I get the flu vaccine and it's automatically been the single dose or pre-filled syringes that don't contain preservatives.
Single-dose vaccines are standard where I live. Not that I have tried, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find anything but a single-dose format.
ETA: For influenza, that is. Some other vaccines are different.1 -
I was going to edit to add, there is no guarantee that the strains which vaccnes are available will be the ones to cause a pandemic at best they are the choice of a committee who guess. A single strain dose is even more of a lottery. Best part is you can still get the flu if the strain near you is not on the list................
Have you ever tried to get anything out of the ordinary from the NHS. One has more chance of getting on the first public moon trip for free. (Experience, private tests proved issues only to be dismissed out of hand).1 -
I was going to edit to add, there is no guarantee that the strains which vaccnes are available will be the ones to cause a pandemic at best they are the choice of a committee who guess. A single strain dose is even more of a lottery. Best part is you can still get the flu if the strain near you is not on the list................
Have you ever tried to get anything out of the ordinary from the NHS. One has more chance of getting on the first public moon trip for free. (Experience, private tests proved issues only to be dismissed out of hand).
I haven't seen a single-strain dose of influenza vaccine for awhile. Last year, I had a 3-strain dose (single-dose, as explained earlier) paid entirely by my employer. Yes, there is a risk that the strains used for the vaccine are not the most common strain. This year, they actually did pretty well in getting it right, but not as close in other years. In either case, I figure that it is better to be vaccinated against some strains than none.
If I come into contact with 5 strains of flu in a season, and have been vaccinated against 1 of those strains, then my immune system can more easily deal with that 1 strain and will have to work harder for the other 4. A 5th just adds to the risk. It would have been even better if all 3 of those 5 were the strains I had been vaccinated against, but even 1 is better than 0. It doesn't matter at that point that I was never exposed to live versions of 2 of the 3 strains included in the vaccine. Just taking the precaution to reduce risk is worthwhile to me.0 -
I was going to edit to add, there is no guarantee that the strains which vaccnes are available will be the ones to cause a pandemic at best they are the choice of a committee who guess. A single strain dose is even more of a lottery. Best part is you can still get the flu if the strain near you is not on the list................
Have you ever tried to get anything out of the ordinary from the NHS. One has more chance of getting on the first public moon trip for free. (Experience, private tests proved issues only to be dismissed out of hand).
The determination of which strains to include in the annual vaccine isn't a guess -- it's a prediction. Some years the prediction is better than others, but that doesn't mean that thought and analysis isn't going into it.
But it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to receive a single dose vaccine (at least not where I live). That's my whole point.1 -
The only single strain one I've ever had (I'm also in the UK)was a few years back,for swine flu. Others I've had have targeted more than one strain. And no,with the NHS there is no picking and choosing-you get what you're given.0
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I think some here are confusing "single dose" and "single strain."2
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midwesterner85 wrote: »I think some here are confusing "single dose" and "single strain."
Probably !1 -
That was about eight years ago. People who got vaccinated for regular seasonal flu and didn't also get vaccinated for the new strain of H1N1 were at an increased risk for H1N1 (but a greatly decreased risk for seasonal flu). But of course, you could reduce the risk of getting H1N1 by getting that vaccine as well. They started producing it late, so it wasn't available when it should have been.Except that it's actually questionable that flu shots reduce risk. During the swine flu epidemic, Canadian researchers found that people who'd had the annual flu shot were 1.5x MORE likely to get swine flu (and pas it on) than people who were unvaccinated.
But in any case, they've adjusted the vaccines since then, just like they do every year. And Canadian health authorities are now recommending the flu vaccine for people who can have it.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/naci-ccni/flu-2016-grippe-eng.php#ii5
The bottom line of this argument is that because there's not 100% protection, there's no point to getting vaccinated. A properly formulated flu vaccine decreases the risk of getting the flu by 50 to 60%. Not perfect, but better than no protection at all. Like any precaution, it offers some protection against likely risks, but not all risks. But if you aren't vaccinated, you don't get that extra 50 to 60%. And even worse, you may become contagious yourself and pass it along to others whose immune systems aren't nearly as strong....there is no guarantee that the strains which vaccnes are available will be the ones to cause a pandemic at best they are the choice of a committee who guess. A single strain dose is even more of a lottery. Best part is you can still get the flu if the strain near you is not on the list.................
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paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
No. You are wrong. This is the FDA's drug insert for one of the chicken pox vaccines. See section 5.4. https://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM142812.pdf
"Post-marketing experience suggests that transmission of vaccine virus may occur rarely between healthy vaccinees who develop a varicella-like rash and healthy susceptible contacts. Transmission of vaccine virus from a mother who did not develop a varicella-like rash to her newborn infant has been reported.
Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX."
I could go on and on but I will leave it at just this one. I challenge every person who is just fine with vaccines of any sort to get the ACTUAL vaccine insert from the manufacturer (not the "fact" sheet the doctor's office gives out). Take note of every vaccine (even "attenuated" which simply means "weakened" not "dead") that states there is at least some verifiable shedding of disease with every vaccine. Most of the inserts state to stay away from vulnerable populations for 4-6 weeks following vaccination. Guessing your doctor didn't tell you that when you went home to an immune compromised person ten minutes after getting any one of the vaccines available that is known to shed. But then, since the incidence is suppose to be "low" it really doesn't matter ---- until it's your immune compromised family member that gets it from you being vaxxed. 3 -
If you're going to vax, at least be informed. Don't just read one page, read the entire insert.......then if you choose to vax, you are at least fully informed to the best extent available.
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm2 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
No. You are wrong. This is the FDA's drug insert for one of the chicken pox vaccines. See section 5.4. https://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM142812.pdf
"Post-marketing experience suggests that transmission of vaccine virus may occur rarely between healthy vaccinees who develop a varicella-like rash and healthy susceptible contacts. Transmission of vaccine virus from a mother who did not develop a varicella-like rash to her newborn infant has been reported.
Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX."
I could go on and on but I will leave it at just this one. I challenge every person who is just fine with vaccines of any sort to get the ACTUAL vaccine insert from the manufacturer (not the "fact" sheet the doctor's office gives out). Take note of every vaccine (even "attenuated" which simply means "weakened" not "dead") that states there is at least some verifiable shedding of disease with every vaccine. Most of the inserts state to stay away from vulnerable populations for 4-6 weeks following vaccination. Guessing your doctor didn't tell you that when you went home to an immune compromised person ten minutes after getting any one of the vaccines available that is known to shed. But then, since the incidence is suppose to be "low" it really doesn't matter ---- until it's your immune compromised family member that gets it from you being vaxxed.
I work in the area of vaccination.
Yes there is an extremely low theoretical risk of transmisson of virus to severely immuno compromised people - that is not the same as live vaccines causing more outbreaks of the disease ,as was the original claim.
Severely immuno compromised people should not have live vaccines themselves - but their household contacts should.
The risk of the immuno compromised person catching the natural disease, especially if the household contacts are not vaccinated, is FAR more than the theoretical risk of vaccine shedding.
Vaccine shedding, on the extremely rare occasions it does occur, also results in a much milder case of the disease, than natural disease does.
Staying away from vulnerable persons if you get a rash from the vaccine (which most people dont) makes sense in terms of not visiting people in aged care homes, keeping away from chemotherapy patients etc - but doesnt make sense if you are going to have contact with the immuno suppressed person whether or not you are vaccinated - ie you live with them.
In that case the risk to the immuno suppressed person is greater if you are NOT vaccinated - for reasons explained above.
Please note - none of above applies to flu vaccine anyway - as it is not a live vaccine.
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