You are not just "weak" or "lazy". Food can be an ADDICTION.

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  • Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
    Alyssa_Is_LosingIt Posts: 4,696 Member
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    richln wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    richln wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    Oh, these threads ...

    So that's all there is to it - willpower and "eat in moderation" is all the world need?

    Some day I hope someone will stick its nose away from the proverbial tree and explain, from a historical and anthropological standpoint, the sudden GLOBAL epidemic of "lack of willpower" and "failure to eat in moderation".

    It isn't a sudden thing... (well I guess if we are looking at the totality of time that humans have been on the planet the last 50 years or so could be considered sudden) but I'm interested in your theories as to what's causing the obesity epidemic.

    Many people are saying that domestic felines are a leading cause of the epidemic.

    Makes as much sense as addictive food.

    I don't know about food addiction, but I personally have been having a hard time kicking my oxygen habit. Haven't been able to go very long without it for the last 40 years. Those withdrawal effects are pretty rough.

    I know, right! The withdrawals from O2 are the worst.
    Signs and Symptoms of Asphyxia

    •Difficulty and/ or noisy breathing, which may ultimately lead to cessation.
    •Rapid pulse.
    •High blood pressure (hypertension)
    •Cyanosis of the face.
    •Swollen veins on the head and neck.
    •Convulsions.
    •Paralysis.
    •Slowly losing consciousness.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »


    hahahaha - I didnt notice I wrote that ridiculous statement - we move less now because of cats

    In case anyone didnt realise - I meant cars. ;)

    I thought it meant that people are choosing cats instead of dogs, because cats don't need to be walked, which means much less exercise for the owners lol
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    :laugh: :laugh:

    We used to plop my cat in a stroller when we took the dogs for a walk, he loved it and sat there perfectly, or we'd put a leash on his collar and then hook it up to one of the dogs collars, and he's toddle along next to them.

    He was one a million, unfortunately a huge brown snake killed him :(
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    :laugh: :laugh:

    We used to plop my cat in a stroller when we took the dogs for a walk, he loved it and sat there perfectly, or we'd put a leash on his collar and then hook it up to one of the dogs collars, and he's toddle along next to them.

    He was one a million, unfortunately a huge brown snake killed him :(

    :( I'm not a fan of cats but, I'm sorry. That's sad. :( Coyotes are the problem around here.
    When you or anyone cuts out sugar, do you experience:
    • Deep depression and suicidal thoughts? no
    • Immense all-over pain? Not all over but there was pain
    • Irritability to the point that you need to be restrained? No. But Irritability was there
    • Emotional instability? Mildly
    • Anxiety attacks? No
    • Restlessness all day and night and/or insomnia? Yes
    • Sweating, hot flashes. Yes. Along with fainting and tunnel vision
    • Flu-like symptoms: weakness, body aches and headaches. You bet
    • Lack of or increased appetite. Yes

    While you're on sugar, do you?
    • Have the need to steal sugar items or money to obtain sugar items from loved ones and friends? No. That's silly. Sugar is cheap.
    • Sell or pawn all your items (including items with sentimental value as well as monetary value) to get a sugar fix? No need. A "fix" was just a few dollars or a sugar bowl away.
    • Act irrational when you don't have sugar. Become overly depressed or violent? Low blood sugar = irrational.
    • Constantly lie to loved ones and create excuses to justify your sugar abuse? Constantly? No. But I did lie about my foods and hid some of them.
    • Instant change in mood when you do get sugar? Pretty much.
    • Need more and more sugar to be satisfied? Yes
    • Bipolar like symptoms? No

    I won't say sugar is an addiction, but it is addiction-like for me. Similar symptoms. Much, much milder.

  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    :laugh: :laugh:

    We used to plop my cat in a stroller when we took the dogs for a walk, he loved it and sat there perfectly, or we'd put a leash on his collar and then hook it up to one of the dogs collars, and he's toddle along next to them.

    He was one a million, unfortunately a huge brown snake killed him :(

    I'm sorry :frowning:

    Mine's a total jerk, but I'll still miss him one day.
  • Isabelle2222
    Isabelle2222 Posts: 12 Member
    edited November 2016
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    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    Oh, these threads ...

    So that's all there is to it - willpower and "eat in moderation" is all the world need?

    Some day I hope someone will stick its nose away from the proverbial tree and explain, from a historical and anthropological standpoint, the sudden GLOBAL epidemic of "lack of willpower" and "failure to eat in moderation".

    It isn't a sudden thing... (well I guess if we are looking at the totality of time that humans have been on the planet the last 50 years or so could be considered sudden) but I'm interested in your theories as to what's causing the obesity epidemic.

    I don't have a theory. I am a lawyer, not a scientist.
    I do have a bachelors' degree in history, and that's why I tend to examine things under a historical or long term perspective.

    Anyhow. I don't have a theory, but I would expect that amongst all of those who believe that that the sole cause of obesity is lack of willpower, could explain why suddenly, humans are losing their willpower.

    As far as I know, this is unprecedented in history, and quite frankly the "we just became lazy and glutton" theory does not fly with me.

    But almost everyone here never raise that issue : why NOW in our history?

  • Isabelle2222
    Isabelle2222 Posts: 12 Member
    edited November 2016
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    We'll it is not quite global - I doubt many people in Ethiopia have been hit by it.

    I would say this relatively recent incidence of widespread obesity relates to more availability of food and availability of non movement ( cats, office jobs etc)

    Most people in history in most of the world didn't over eat because there wasnt a surplus of food.
    And they didn't under exercise because there was no non exercise way of doing things.

    Hum ... But food have been abundant for most middle and upper class citizens in the USA and Canada for more than a century.

    In any event, I would like to see an actual study to explain why people have a decrease in lack of willpower when it comes to EATING and WORKING OUT specifically. Because really, have we observed (as in: scientifically documented) the same laziness at work, or in school, or in other human endeavours?

    Come on, be nice: someone tell me I am not the only one who wonders! ;-)

    Again, this is just a plea for keeping an open mind on the subject. I think it's really interesting. It's nature and social science, not ideology!
  • CurlyCockney
    CurlyCockney Posts: 1,394 Member
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    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    Oh, these threads ...

    So that's all there is to it - willpower and "eat in moderation" is all the world need?

    Some day I hope someone will stick its nose away from the proverbial tree and explain, from a historical and anthropological standpoint, the sudden GLOBAL epidemic of "lack of willpower" and "failure to eat in moderation".

    It isn't a sudden thing... (well I guess if we are looking at the totality of time that humans have been on the planet the last 50 years or so could be considered sudden) but I'm interested in your theories as to what's causing the obesity epidemic.

    I don't have a theory. I am a lawyer, not a scientist.
    I do have a bachelors' degree in history, and that's why I tend to examine things under a historical or long term perspective.

    Anyhow. I don't have a theory, but I would expect that amongst all of those who believe that that the sole cause of obesity is lack of willpower, could explain why suddenly, humans are losing their willpower.

    As far as I know, this is unprecedented in history, and quite frankly the "we just became lazy and glutton" theory does not fly with me.

    But almost everyone here never raise that issue : why NOW in our history?

    Oh I've got a theory on that, based on nothing scientific whatsoever! My theory is that more of us have the means to overeat. We have easy access to foods and the pounds/dollars in our pocket to buy it. Couple that with my other non-scientific theory that we all think we have the "right" to do things (but seldom take the responsibility that goes with those rights) and you'll find us in MaccieD's asking to be supersized, just because we can!

    N.B: As stated, none of this is scientific. Other theories may apply. You may lose your home if you do not keep up payments on it. Proof of posting is not accepted as proof of delivery. YaddaYaddaYadda.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    We were talking about the same thing in a thread over in Health & Fitness Debate (the one on a NYT article). My theory is that it's environment. For example, one didn't need "willpower" to get in activity when it was a normal part of one's day. Just living in a city I get in a lot more walking than someone who lives the same life as me but drives to work and to the store and so on, and add to this that jobs were a lot more active, on average, people had to move more to do many household chores. The changes with food are more significant -- customs have (sadly) changed even since I was a kid in the '80s in terms of what's commonplace with eating between meals, eating takeout or fast food really regularly vs. as a special occasion, not sitting down and eating a homecooked meal with the family. In some subcultures or groups people live more as I remember (this actually is the case for most of my friends, neighbors, and co-workers) and obesity seems to be relatively rare in these groups, especially for kids. (The same foods were basically available back then, so there would be no reason people would be "addicted" to fast food now, not then, even if that physically made a bit of sense, which it does not.)

    The availability of food has increased and cost has gone down, especially in terms of time. For example, I eat less when I limit myself to home cooked/whole foods, not because I can't easily create meals just as caloric or tastier to my own taste, but because then I have much more trouble eating outside of meal times, and I am forced to put more thought into what I consume (although I know people who cook this way and do create high cal meals -- I used to, though not to the extreme I'm thinking of). It's really not true that food has been abundant for most for more than a century (ironically health improved during rationing during WW2 in the UK, for example), but also choice and timing of food being available has increased a ton. Being able to grab something whenever the urge hits vs. having to wait for meal time or prepare it, and having so many options all increases the temptation to eat. This is not because of the food being "addictive" or packaged food having special ingredients -- the availability of interesting and quality home-cooked or restaurant cooked from whole foods is much greater for me now than when I was a kid: I can order good quality ethnic foods of all sorts (sorts I hadn't heard of as a kid), go out to many more restaurants, go to any grocery store and get a much greater variety of foods and ingredients, including whole foods, food is generally cheaper as a percentage of income, and the cookbooks commonly available have a much greater range of options and cuisines (even without the internet). We have lots more food porn available to us.

    Environments and culture has changed a lot (culture and scarcity traditionally regulated how much we ate), but humans haven't. What this means is that for many or most of us those old natural desires to eat food when it's available and looks good are there. The more it's around and on offer and there's no reason not to eat, we want to and often do. Brian Wansink's books talk about us being faced with some crazy number of choices over whether to eat or not during a day. Again, I don't think this was the case even in the '80s to this degree, and of course it affects us unless to figure out a way to deal with it (which I think we can).

    IMO, claiming the only answers are "we have weak willpower" or "we are addicted" shows a failure of imagination and observation.

    (We may well have weak willpower commonly, depending on what one thinks of human willpower, but I would agree that it hasn't changed.)
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
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    I'm thinking when I grew up in the 70's there was not a fast food place on every corner, we went out to eat on special occasions and the food portions are huge now. Eating out is cheap, social and its generally accepted eating out breakfast, lunch and dinner. I think that has something to do with the gradual rate of obesity.

    Now that we have an obesity problem...

    Add to that education on weight loss/management is being debated try this, no don't do that its bad for you. The "experts" rarely agree and if you do find success losing weight there is not much education on HOW to keep it off.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    johunt615 wrote: »
    I'm thinking when I grew up in the 70's there was not a fast food place on every corner, we went out to eat on special occasions and the food portions are huge now. Eating out is cheap, social and its generally accepted eating out breakfast, lunch and dinner. I think that has something to do with the gradual rate of obesity.

    Now that we have an obesity problem...

    Add to that education on weight loss/management is being debated try this, no don't do that its bad for you. The "experts" rarely agree and if you do find success losing weight there is not much education on HOW to keep it off.

    There was one Hungry Jacks (Burger king) about 30 minutes away from my house when i was a kid, and no Mcdonalds in Australia back then. Take away nights were a very special event, maybe once or twice a month. No such things as microwave meals, and dessert was reserved for when we had visitors. No video games, play stations or mobile phones, we walked or rode our bikes everywhere. There's no way my parents would drive me to a friends place, I had to walk or ride there myself. I can remember maybe 2 overweight kids in school, they were definitely not the norm.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,992 Member
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    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    We'll it is not quite global - I doubt many people in Ethiopia have been hit by it.

    I would say this relatively recent incidence of widespread obesity relates to more availability of food and availability of non movement ( cats, office jobs etc)

    Most people in history in most of the world didn't over eat because there wasnt a surplus of food.
    And they didn't under exercise because there was no non exercise way of doing things.

    Hum ... But food have been abundant for most middle and upper class citizens in the USA and Canada for more than a century.

    In any event, I would like to see an actual study to explain why people have a decrease in lack of willpower when it comes to EATING and WORKING OUT specifically. Because really, have we observed (as in: scientifically documented) the same laziness at work, or in school, or in other human endeavours?

    Come on, be nice: someone tell me I am not the only one who wonders! ;-)

    Again, this is just a plea for keeping an open mind on the subject. I think it's really interesting. It's nature and social science, not ideology!

    I don't think people have any more or less will power than before or are more or less lazy than before.
    I think your question is coming from a false premise.

    But I do think we, as people of the western world collectively, have more access to more food, especially easy to eat ready food and high calorie foods and drinks
    And have a more sedentary life style - office jobs, indoor pursuits, apartment living, labour saving devices and ready transport (CARS !!!!! )

    In short we eat more and move less because we can and our lifestyle tends to this.

    When people were on rationed food and didn't have take aways and few people had their own CARS and most people lived in houses with backyards and did labour intensive activities because there were no computers, washing machines, vacuum cleaners etc - their lifestyle tended to make them eat at maitenance.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    johunt615 wrote: »
    I'm thinking when I grew up in the 70's there was not a fast food place on every corner, we went out to eat on special occasions and the food portions are huge now. Eating out is cheap, social and its generally accepted eating out breakfast, lunch and dinner. I think that has something to do with the gradual rate of obesity.

    Now that we have an obesity problem...

    Add to that education on weight loss/management is being debated try this, no don't do that its bad for you. The "experts" rarely agree and if you do find success losing weight there is not much education on HOW to keep it off.

    McD's et al were just as convenient when I was a kid as now. It was also cheap. The typical meals that people ordered were smaller in some ways (fries have increased a lot in size, from what I've seen), but already adults would get a Quarter Pounder or the like and leave the plain burger and small fries for the kids. (But I also recall it being seen mainly as a kids restaurant that adults went to because kids liked it, often with large groups.)

    I would agree that the prevailing customs were that it was an occasional thing (and that eating out in general was, same with picking up takeout of other sorts, although this obviously didn't preclude people who had to eat out a lot due to their jobs, like those who traveled a lot or had to entertain a lot). I actually DON'T think eating out for all meals is generally accepted now, especially not with kids -- as I've noted, what I see in my neighborhood and among my co-workers and former co-workers is that with kids it's still considered an occasional thing and there is focus on making sure the kids eat healthy meals (even more so than when I was a kid). But these are social groups in which obesity, especially childhood obesity, is quite rare, and I am sure customs are different in some other groups. I've been honestly shocked at the number of people on MFP who claim not to eat home-cooked meals for the most part or to have grown up eating only junk food (their words) or going to McD's all the time or never to have eaten veg. I'm sure there was some of this when I was a kid too, but it does seem more prevalent, I think is part of the cultural changes (NOT addiction), and seems to not be uniformly the case throughout the various subgroups/subcultures in the US, IMO.

    I think portions in general are somewhat larger, which probably affects what people think of as normal portions. I'm thinking as much of things like what a bagel is if you get one, what a normal size coffee is, what serving sizes are in the store as restaurants, where I think there's more variation than people allow. Cheaper restaurants tend to have larger portions than they used to, definitely, though, and the US has always tended to be a country that focuses more on supposed value when it comes to food than anything else, on average (thus the popularity of free refills, all you can eat, buy one get one free, eat the whole giant steak and get it free, etc.).

    I actually do think that if people are honest with themselves they know perfectly well what the basics of what to do to lose weight are. They largely don't want to do those things and are hoping there's an easier way, and that's why there's such a market for all the scams and woo (and IMO also the addiction idea, as they hope that if they do some diet, like juicing or sugar detox or many others they will magically never want to overeat again, no muss, no fuss).
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 5,948 Member
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    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Isabelle2222 wrote: »
    Oh, these threads ...

    So that's all there is to it - willpower and "eat in moderation" is all the world need?

    Some day I hope someone will stick its nose away from the proverbial tree and explain, from a historical and anthropological standpoint, the sudden GLOBAL epidemic of "lack of willpower" and "failure to eat in moderation".

    It isn't a sudden thing... (well I guess if we are looking at the totality of time that humans have been on the planet the last 50 years or so could be considered sudden) but I'm interested in your theories as to what's causing the obesity epidemic.

    I don't have a theory. I am a lawyer, not a scientist.
    I do have a bachelors' degree in history, and that's why I tend to examine things under a historical or long term perspective.

    Anyhow. I don't have a theory, but I would expect that amongst all of those who believe that that the sole cause of obesity is lack of willpower, could explain why suddenly, humans are losing their willpower.

    As far as I know, this is unprecedented in history, and quite frankly the "we just became lazy and glutton" theory does not fly with me.

    But almost everyone here never raise that issue : why NOW in our history?

    Our willpower has not changed, I believe, IMO, the environment around us has changed so much (conveniences have made it easy to eat too much and move too little) that our willpower is being tested more and more then in the past...

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