You are not just "weak" or "lazy". Food can be an ADDICTION.

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  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,969 Member
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    CurlyCockney wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...

    I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)

    Wait.

    Hold up.


    That's next week...


    isn't it?

    Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    VeryKatie wrote: »
    I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.

    Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.

    When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.

    As singingflutelady says, I don't think it's being argued against as a behavior addiction.

    I believe that there's an eating addiction (a behavioral issue with eating), as well as perhaps other sorts of compulsive eatings and bingeing disorder. What I don't believe is that it's possible to be physically addicted to pizza vs. other foods that are in essence identical to pizza. Nor do I believe that rat studies mean that humans have no choice about whether or not to consume a sugary food.

    Ironically, most of what annoys me when proclaimed in these threads would be untrue even if said about someone with something I believe is an addiction, because I believe that taking responsibility and ownership of the issue is essential for overcoming any problem with addiction.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    CurlyCockney wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...

    I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)

    Wait.

    Hold up.


    That's next week...


    isn't it?

    Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.

    Curly's in England.
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
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    Verity1111 wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    Puppybear1 wrote: »
    Sugar is a drug. And just like alcoholics, some people have genetic predispositions for addiction, ie - diabetics. I have been preaching this topic for a week and fending off the shade I get for comparing sugar to drugs, but it IS a drug, or food companies wouldn't put it in practically everything! Kudos to the Enlightened!

    Sugar isn't a drug. It's just sugar.

    It is very similar to a drug.

    NO.
    You've never been around someone who has had an actual addiction, or even been there yourself.
    *sigh*
    I once thought I was addicted to sugar; turns out, I was just eating far too much and looking for an excuse to not lose weight.
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,933 Member
    edited October 2016
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    johunt615 wrote: »
    CurlyCockney wrote: »
    Therealobi1 wrote: »
    i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.

    Kudos to you for empowering your daughter!
    VeryKatie wrote: »
    I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.

    Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.

    When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.

    When I was calling food bad it was a vicious cycle.

    I want cake,
    no it's bad,
    no it taste good.
    Ahh eats slice of cake
    Oh no I ate a bad food
    Oh no that make ME bad
    But it tastes good
    Well I'm bad might as well eat the whole cake
    Eats whole cake
    I'm bad

    Now I see cake as neither good nor bad. Therefore I'm not bad when I eat one slice.

    This is a good point. Different people will react differently to the terminology of "good" or "bad" foods. When I call a food bad, it doesn't have a strong affect on me. It's simply a reminder to try to choose an alternative if I can or to think of how I'm going to fit that food into my day, because it often is harder to fit some of those foods into my day. Or perhaps it simply reminds me of why I have not always been successful in weight loss. So I think it's important to remember that everyone interprets the terms differently.
  • kbmh611
    kbmh611 Posts: 110 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    JustMissTracy wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    DisruptedMatrix wrote: »
    Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE

    Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."

    What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
    Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:

    Me:I like red hats
    MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
    Me: I never said everyone did.
    MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
    Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?

    Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
    I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.

    You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.

    For you, it may be different.

    You do you!

    I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.

    Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.

    You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.

    People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.

    You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.

    When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).

    Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)

    People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.

    So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.

    This is revisionist history. You were given lots of opportunities to clarify if what you mean was pizza is worse "for me." In fact, when people disagreed with you, they only said "it's not worse for ME," so you could have said, "that's exactly what I am saying." Instead, you kept insisting that it was worse for people in general or, you modified, for fat people in general.

    You also did say that fat people, because they are fat people, obviously would not be satisfied with 2 pieces of pizza but would be able to eat lower cal burgers and for some reason should be assumed to be likely to overeat pizza, not burgers. That's all that (ridiculous) debate was about.

    Now you are trying to pretend like people said stuff they didn't. Not sure why, seems odd to me.

    And it seems odd to me that you jumped to conclusion and applied my words to everyone on the planet. Did you see me use the words"I would not be satisfied with two pieces of pizza." How is that all fat people? And I did say that I was speaking of myself several times. Please read everything. It comes down to this, you chose to interpret my words in a way not said and I am still going to have these opinions. Please don't come into another tread and paint me out to a villain. You dragging it to death isn't going to change that. You feel you are right, and I feel that I am right. And this is exactly like the situations are referring to.
  • kbmh611
    kbmh611 Posts: 110 Member
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    CurlyCockney wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    CurlyCockney wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    JustMissTracy wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    DisruptedMatrix wrote: »
    Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE

    Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."

    What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
    Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:

    Me:I like red hats
    MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
    Me: I never said everyone did.
    MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
    Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?

    Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
    I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.

    You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.

    For you, it may be different.

    You do you!

    I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.

    Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.

    You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.

    People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.

    You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.

    When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).

    Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)

    People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.

    So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.

    I don't think I read or commented on that thread, but if I did I've forgotten it so what I'm about to say is an observation based just on what you've said in this thread. Do you realise that you're condemning people for reading into things you've said whilst reading things into things they've said? You're assigning motives to them at the same time as you're complaining that they're assigning motives to you.

    It's fine (IMO) to say "that's not what I said", but when you add the rider of "and you're saying that because you're mean/it's nonsensical/it's happened to others" it falls apart.

    Sorry but I'm going to respectfully disagree. Not knowing what happened in the other thread or in others that I have been part of or viewed to which my examples are derived you can't possibly pick a side (so to speak.) and honestly I can't keep repeating myself. I've explained my point many times, if you disagree then fine, you have every right. I don't read into things. There are different ways to speak to someone. Nice, polite, mean, insulting. If not, then these attitudes or feelings wouldn't exist. If I say "your hair is ugly" "or you don't know what you are talking about," and you get offended, I don't have the right to say "hey that's your problem you got offended." These are just an example.

    My point is, I wouldn't be offended.

    Well that's you, but others might be.

  • kbmh611
    kbmh611 Posts: 110 Member
    Options
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    JustMissTracy wrote: »
    kbmh611 wrote: »
    DisruptedMatrix wrote: »
    Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE

    Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."

    What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
    Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:

    Me:I like red hats
    MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
    Me: I never said everyone did.
    MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
    Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?

    Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
    I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.

    You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.

    For you, it may be different.

    You do you!

    I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.

    Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.

    You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.

    People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.

    You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.

    When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).

    Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)

    People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.

    So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.

    This is revisionist history. You were given lots of opportunities to clarify if what you mean was pizza is worse "for me." In fact, when people disagreed with you, they only said "it's not worse for ME," so you could have said, "that's exactly what I am saying." Instead, you kept insisting that it was worse for people in general or, you modified, for fat people in general.

    You also did say that fat people, because they are fat people, obviously would not be satisfied with 2 pieces of pizza but would be able to eat lower cal burgers and for some reason should be assumed to be likely to overeat pizza, not burgers. That's all that (ridiculous) debate was about.

    Now you are trying to pretend like people said stuff they didn't. Not sure why, seems odd to me.

    And it seems odd to me that you jumped to conclusion and applied my words to everyone on the planet. Did you see me use the words"I would not be satisfied with two pieces of pizza." How is that all fat people? And I did say that I was speaking of myself several times. Please read everything. It comes down to this, you chose to interpret my words in a way not said and I am still going to have these opinions. Please don't come into another tread and paint me out to a villain. You dragging it to death isn't going to change that. You feel you are right, and I feel that I am right. And this is exactly like the situations are referring to.

    You brought up the thread and mischaracterized what happened. Sadly, I don't think it exists anymore, so you can make up things to your heart's content, and only those of us there know it's not true, but there are probably a number of us. On the pizza thing, when people said that they were satisfied with 2 pieces you argued against them, said you were talking about the sort of pizza you assumed most people, especially people who needed to lose weight ate, and that you did not think those people would be satisfied on two -- you quite clearly were not talking just about yourself.

    It's derailing this thread and not appropriate, so I am going to drop it now, but I just didn't think it was right to let you misrepresent what happened without being called on it.

    So everyone else's perception of what was said is right but you deem my perceptions or interpretations as wrong? I never said I assume most people eat squared pizza. Never!!!! I was using it as an example. You took me giving an example and got up in arms about it. Sometimes you use examples to prove points. You shouldnt assume it applies to everyone. If you assumed, well you know what they say about that.

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