You are not just "weak" or "lazy". Food can be an ADDICTION.
Replies
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
I rarely see that level of 'attacking' here on MFP. And when it does occur, all you need do is report the post in question and let the mods decide.Offer help, but be nicer. Don't be insulting or make people feel stupid because they might not have your experiences, mindset, or views. You can state facts, if you know them to be that true, but don't be a prick about it by making statements like "what don't you understand?" Or "this isn't hard to get."
And the issue becomes one of what, precisely, does "be nicer" actually mean? Because that is entirely open to each member's interpretation based on their knowledge, experience and personal style. Your definition of 'nicer' may - to me - come across as panderingly insincere and nauseatingly indirect and unhelpful, or vice-versa.
And for the majority of OPs that start a thread and then never return, I suspect they may have only done so in order to receive validation - to hear their opinions in a different voice - and that having their premise turn out to be misguided is something they are just not ready to either hear or deal with. So they abandon the thread, which is entirely their choice to do.
But for every person who starts such a thread, there are dozens of people that are merely lurking and learning, and may be ready to absorb the information that was generously offered to an unreceptive OP.
Yes absolutely this
I bristle at sycophants
I react well to straight-shooters
If this place had been nicey-nice I would not have succeeded in losing and maintaining loss but would have held on to my confusing beliefs, my fads and rules
Nope all hail those who told it like it is
Made the difference
There is a difference between being sickeningly sweet and stating a opinion in an insulting way. No one wants to be made to feel stupid or insulted by someone who THINK they know best and state it as such. You can be a straight shooter without being mean or belittling
That's mainly in the inference ..how you perceive what is written
Maybe. So if someone says to you things like, "what don't you get about this?" Or "this isn't hard to understand." You don't think that's a sort of insulting way to speak to someone you are exchanging ideas with?
Nope, they are comments that I would infer are borne of frustration by my inability to either understand what they have written or frame a response adequately to convey my understanding and dismissal of their point
I could easily say what don't you get about the word "inference " you know...but that would be an irony too far
But couldn't that argument then be used for any time someone insults you or calls you a name? Then would anything ever be "insulting"? So it's never the fault of the person being insulting? It's the fault of the person being insulted if they choose to take it that way? Sorry but I dont buy that and respectfully disagree.
I don't find anything insulting. I find it much healthier for me not to do the blame/victim thing at all, so fault doesn't come into it.
Edited to explain further: I'm not saying that bad things or bad situations don't happen, I just find that dealing with it is better than just whining that it happened.2 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
I rarely see that level of 'attacking' here on MFP. And when it does occur, all you need do is report the post in question and let the mods decide.Offer help, but be nicer. Don't be insulting or make people feel stupid because they might not have your experiences, mindset, or views. You can state facts, if you know them to be that true, but don't be a prick about it by making statements like "what don't you understand?" Or "this isn't hard to get."
And the issue becomes one of what, precisely, does "be nicer" actually mean? Because that is entirely open to each member's interpretation based on their knowledge, experience and personal style. Your definition of 'nicer' may - to me - come across as panderingly insincere and nauseatingly indirect and unhelpful, or vice-versa.
And for the majority of OPs that start a thread and then never return, I suspect they may have only done so in order to receive validation - to hear their opinions in a different voice - and that having their premise turn out to be misguided is something they are just not ready to either hear or deal with. So they abandon the thread, which is entirely their choice to do.
But for every person who starts such a thread, there are dozens of people that are merely lurking and learning, and may be ready to absorb the information that was generously offered to an unreceptive OP.
Yes absolutely this
I bristle at sycophants
I react well to straight-shooters
If this place had been nicey-nice I would not have succeeded in losing and maintaining loss but would have held on to my confusing beliefs, my fads and rules
Nope all hail those who told it like it is
Made the difference
There is a difference between being sickeningly sweet and stating a opinion in an insulting way. No one wants to be made to feel stupid or insulted by someone who THINK they know best and state it as such. You can be a straight shooter without being mean or belittling
That's mainly in the inference ..how you perceive what is written
Maybe. So if someone says to you things like, "what don't you get about this?" Or "this isn't hard to understand." You don't think that's a sort of insulting way to speak to someone you are exchanging ideas with?
Nope, they are comments that I would infer are borne of frustration by my inability to either understand what they have written or frame a response adequately to convey my understanding and dismissal of their point
I could easily say what don't you get about the word "inference " you know...but that would be an irony too far
But couldn't that argument then be used for any time someone insults you or calls you a name? Then would anything ever be "insulting"? So it's never the fault of the person being insulting? It's the fault of the person being insulted if they choose to take it that way? Sorry but I dont buy that and respectfully disagree.
I don't find anything insulting. I find it much healthier for me not to do the blame/victim thing at all, so fault doesn't come into it.
are you saying you never find anything people say insulting? or you have never come across these situations0 -
ok seen the update. understand1
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
I rarely see that level of 'attacking' here on MFP. And when it does occur, all you need do is report the post in question and let the mods decide.Offer help, but be nicer. Don't be insulting or make people feel stupid because they might not have your experiences, mindset, or views. You can state facts, if you know them to be that true, but don't be a prick about it by making statements like "what don't you understand?" Or "this isn't hard to get."
And the issue becomes one of what, precisely, does "be nicer" actually mean? Because that is entirely open to each member's interpretation based on their knowledge, experience and personal style. Your definition of 'nicer' may - to me - come across as panderingly insincere and nauseatingly indirect and unhelpful, or vice-versa.
And for the majority of OPs that start a thread and then never return, I suspect they may have only done so in order to receive validation - to hear their opinions in a different voice - and that having their premise turn out to be misguided is something they are just not ready to either hear or deal with. So they abandon the thread, which is entirely their choice to do.
But for every person who starts such a thread, there are dozens of people that are merely lurking and learning, and may be ready to absorb the information that was generously offered to an unreceptive OP.
Yes absolutely this
I bristle at sycophants
I react well to straight-shooters
If this place had been nicey-nice I would not have succeeded in losing and maintaining loss but would have held on to my confusing beliefs, my fads and rules
Nope all hail those who told it like it is
Made the difference
There is a difference between being sickeningly sweet and stating a opinion in an insulting way. No one wants to be made to feel stupid or insulted by someone who THINK they know best and state it as such. You can be a straight shooter without being mean or belittling
That's mainly in the inference ..how you perceive what is written
Maybe. So if someone says to you things like, "what don't you get about this?" Or "this isn't hard to understand." You don't think that's a sort of insulting way to speak to someone you are exchanging ideas with?
Nope, they are comments that I would infer are borne of frustration by my inability to either understand what they have written or frame a response adequately to convey my understanding and dismissal of their point
I could easily say what don't you get about the word "inference " you know...but that would be an irony too far
But couldn't that argument then be used for any time someone insults you or calls you a name? Then would anything ever be "insulting"? So it's never the fault of the person being insulting? It's the fault of the person being insulted if they choose to take it that way? Sorry but I dont buy that and respectfully disagree.
Nope it couldn't0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
I rarely see that level of 'attacking' here on MFP. And when it does occur, all you need do is report the post in question and let the mods decide.Offer help, but be nicer. Don't be insulting or make people feel stupid because they might not have your experiences, mindset, or views. You can state facts, if you know them to be that true, but don't be a prick about it by making statements like "what don't you understand?" Or "this isn't hard to get."
And the issue becomes one of what, precisely, does "be nicer" actually mean? Because that is entirely open to each member's interpretation based on their knowledge, experience and personal style. Your definition of 'nicer' may - to me - come across as panderingly insincere and nauseatingly indirect and unhelpful, or vice-versa.
And for the majority of OPs that start a thread and then never return, I suspect they may have only done so in order to receive validation - to hear their opinions in a different voice - and that having their premise turn out to be misguided is something they are just not ready to either hear or deal with. So they abandon the thread, which is entirely their choice to do.
But for every person who starts such a thread, there are dozens of people that are merely lurking and learning, and may be ready to absorb the information that was generously offered to an unreceptive OP.
Yes absolutely this
I bristle at sycophants
I react well to straight-shooters
If this place had been nicey-nice I would not have succeeded in losing and maintaining loss but would have held on to my confusing beliefs, my fads and rules
Nope all hail those who told it like it is
Made the difference
There is a difference between being sickeningly sweet and stating a opinion in an insulting way. No one wants to be made to feel stupid or insulted by someone who THINK they know best and state it as such. You can be a straight shooter without being mean or belittling
That's mainly in the inference ..how you perceive what is written
Maybe. So if someone says to you things like, "what don't you get about this?" Or "this isn't hard to understand." You don't think that's a sort of insulting way to speak to someone you are exchanging ideas with?
Nope, they are comments that I would infer are borne of frustration by my inability to either understand what they have written or frame a response adequately to convey my understanding and dismissal of their point
I could easily say what don't you get about the word "inference " you know...but that would be an irony too far
But couldn't that argument then be used for any time someone insults you or calls you a name? Then would anything ever be "insulting"? So it's never the fault of the person being insulting? It's the fault of the person being insulted if they choose to take it that way? Sorry but I dont buy that and respectfully disagree.
I don't find anything insulting. I find it much healthier for me not to do the blame/victim thing at all, so fault doesn't come into it.
are you saying you never find anything people say insulting? or you have never come across these situations
I've never found anything a stranger said to be insulting, no. I make the choice not to give them the power.
I've never found anything a friend said insulting, although sometimes they are frustrating (as am I to them!) but we talk it out.
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CurlyCockney wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
I don't think I read or commented on that thread, but if I did I've forgotten it so what I'm about to say is an observation based just on what you've said in this thread. Do you realise that you're condemning people for reading into things you've said whilst reading things into things they've said? You're assigning motives to them at the same time as you're complaining that they're assigning motives to you.
It's fine (IMO) to say "that's not what I said", but when you add the rider of "and you're saying that because you're mean/it's nonsensical/it's happened to others" it falls apart.
Sorry but I'm going to respectfully disagree. Not knowing what happened in the other thread or in others that I have been part of or viewed to which my examples are derived you can't possibly pick a side (so to speak.) and honestly I can't keep repeating myself. I've explained my point many times, if you disagree then fine, you have every right. I don't read into things. There are different ways to speak to someone. Nice, polite, mean, insulting. If not, then these attitudes or feelings wouldn't exist. If I say "your hair is ugly" "or you don't know what you are talking about," and you get offended, I don't have the right to say "hey that's your problem you got offended." These are just an example.
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i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.12
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lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
This is revisionist history. You were given lots of opportunities to clarify if what you mean was pizza is worse "for me." In fact, when people disagreed with you, they only said "it's not worse for ME," so you could have said, "that's exactly what I am saying." Instead, you kept insisting that it was worse for people in general or, you modified, for fat people in general.
You also did say that fat people, because they are fat people, obviously would not be satisfied with 2 pieces of pizza but would be able to eat lower cal burgers and for some reason should be assumed to be likely to overeat pizza, not burgers. That's all that (ridiculous) debate was about.
Now you are trying to pretend like people said stuff they didn't. Not sure why, seems odd to me.4 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
I don't think I read or commented on that thread, but if I did I've forgotten it so what I'm about to say is an observation based just on what you've said in this thread. Do you realise that you're condemning people for reading into things you've said whilst reading things into things they've said? You're assigning motives to them at the same time as you're complaining that they're assigning motives to you.
It's fine (IMO) to say "that's not what I said", but when you add the rider of "and you're saying that because you're mean/it's nonsensical/it's happened to others" it falls apart.
Sorry but I'm going to respectfully disagree. Not knowing what happened in the other thread or in others that I have been part of or viewed to which my examples are derived you can't possibly pick a side (so to speak.) and honestly I can't keep repeating myself. I've explained my point many times, if you disagree then fine, you have every right. I don't read into things. There are different ways to speak to someone. Nice, polite, mean, insulting. If not, then these attitudes or feelings wouldn't exist. If I say "your hair is ugly" "or you don't know what you are talking about," and you get offended, I don't have the right to say "hey that's your problem you got offended." These are just an example.
My point is, I wouldn't be offended.0 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
I don't think I read or commented on that thread, but if I did I've forgotten it so what I'm about to say is an observation based just on what you've said in this thread. Do you realise that you're condemning people for reading into things you've said whilst reading things into things they've said? You're assigning motives to them at the same time as you're complaining that they're assigning motives to you.
It's fine (IMO) to say "that's not what I said", but when you add the rider of "and you're saying that because you're mean/it's nonsensical/it's happened to others" it falls apart.
I believe WinoGelato was the main person she was calling mean on the other thread, which shows that there's something wrong in the perception (or it's just dishonest), IMO.3 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.
Kudos to you for empowering your daughter!2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
This is revisionist history. You were given lots of opportunities to clarify if what you mean was pizza is worse "for me." In fact, when people disagreed with you, they only said "it's not worse for ME," so you could have said, "that's exactly what I am saying." Instead, you kept insisting that it was worse for people in general or, you modified, for fat people in general.
You also did say that fat people, because they are fat people, obviously would not be satisfied with 2 pieces of pizza but would be able to eat lower cal burgers and for some reason should be assumed to be likely to overeat pizza, not burgers. That's all that (ridiculous) debate was about.
Now you are trying to pretend like people said stuff they didn't. Not sure why, seems odd to me.
Some people get offended when people don't agree with them, others get offended when people ignore them, even more look for reasons to get offended then react, then there are others who are always opposites and even more who always agree
Some hold a grudge others don't
Some learn others already feel they know everything
Some sites suit some people others should switch off the Internet
It takes all sorts
Isn't it glorious4 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.
Kudos to you for empowering your daughter!
Thanks.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
He didn't sabotage her though. This is where personal responsibility comes in. He didn't force feed them to her. She chose to eat them. You seem to think she is totally helpless and a victim. That's more damaging to her psyche than pointing out that she has the power to stand up and say no and have other options. I guess you blame stores and fast food restaurants for sabotaging people? As I said earlier the victim mindset is so rampant that it is sickening. Quit being a victim and blaming everyone else. Nothing will change until you stop doing that. How will you ever lose weight or whatever if it's never your fault and totally out of your control.
I think that way about most addictions, or those with addiction-like issues. It (addiction or addiction like issues) usually starts with some bad decisions: choosing to drink too much or too often, or choosing to try drugs and hard drugs, choosing to eat a diet high in nutrionally poor high sugar (junk) foods. It all starts with bad choices, although some may be ignorant of their choices or just have a sense of misplaced personal indestructibility (one isn't going to hut, and if one doesn't hurt then a few more won't hurt either - playing the odds).
I do understand this. I just don't believe that anyone can change their behaviour until they recognize why they make bad choices and work on why these occur. I've been there, done that. I used to blame others for my ED even when I was inpatient and in a day hospital program because it was easier to think I had no control over it and unfortunately I relapsed as soon as I left. I didn't make any substantial progress in my recovery until I stepped back and realized that I do have control. Sure it is difficult and it still is difficult but it is worth the hard work as I probably would have died if I didn't put the work in.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »Did you see that thread where a woman's husband thought she was ungrateful because he sabatoged her with chocolates and she asked advice on how to make this boundary clear to him and she was demoralized to the point that she hasn't been back on by people telling her she should thank him for chocolates and have willpower?!?!?! RAGE
Yes, there seem to be a lot of missy know-it-alls on these boards that have amazing will power. Almost makes you wonder how they got overweight to begin with right? Since they know everything about dieting and eating healthy they should just all get together and write a book called "You're doing it wrong!" Or "How hard is this to understand?" Or how about "You weak minded imbecile:Eat What You Want and Still Lose Weight."
What they don't get is they may think they are trying to help but they don't say things in a helpful tone of voice. They will state things so matter-of-factly, instead of phrasing their comments in terms of what works for them in regards to what they answering on. Like I've been saying, I label foods as bad or good, some others on here are clearly against that way of thinking towards a diet. I respect that and don't turn around and tell them "well, you are wrong." If you are going to question my way of thinking I'm going to just state my side and explain my way of thinking, but it's like there are people on here that can't accept that and will fight you to the death over your opinion until they scare you off the boards for life.
Or how about the people to which you say a very clear and concise statement to and they completely flip it around? Example:
Me:I like red hats
MFP commenter: Not everyone likes red hats!!!!
Me: I never said everyone did.
MFP Commenter: well, you implied it!
Me: um...what? Can I mail you some Twinkies?
Ok, I know I'm getting silly now, but I felt the need to get that off my chest. Let the crucifixion begin!
I wish these boards could be a more comfortable, light hearted, fun place to be, but much of the time they are not.
You sound quite angry. In the end, we all have to lose our weight, our way. For me, losing 80 lbs took willpower. It took saying no to the second cupcake, even though I thought I needed it.
For you, it may be different.
You do you!
I might sound a little angry because people should not be scared off of here or made to feel bad when they are on these boards for help with their weight loss journey. It's sickening to see how some people are attacked for their opinions and choices when it comes to dieting. Like you said "you do you." Share your opinion or experience in hopes of being some help to others, but don't go on the attack if they disagree. Sure, there are people that start threads as confrontational right off the bat, and those people are wrong to do so. But I've seen people that create a very innocent post and are crucified by the end of it. I always end up feeling bad for them because I'm sure they never thought it was going to turn so ugly so fast.
Just to recap the burger vs. pizza thread.
You jumped in and said burgers are better, the kind of pizza that I am going to assume that everyone else is eating is going to lead to binges.
People responded and said that might be true for you, but not for everyone, many can feel satisfied on lower cal pizza than you apparently are assuming, or less, or will be just as or more likely to overeat when having a burger.
You dug in and kept arguing (I dunno why), that no, pizza was worse in general.
When eventually enough people had pointed out the flaw in this you got mad and pretended (although the thread disproved it) that people had been trying to say that pizza wasn't a worse choice for you, when that was never something even being discussed, and no one would have objected if that's what you'd said (about 50 previous people had said that one or the other was better for them).
Saying that a food is a bad choice for you is totally reasonable. But that has nothing to do with the common statement on MFP that there are no inherently bad foods -- it depends on the person and the overall diet. Nor is "eat what you like within your calories" bad advice, although I typically recommend considering satiety and nutrition too, as do most here. I assume that for any sensible adult eating what you like within your calories will include consideration of nutrition and satiety, since I know I personally like to eat foods that make me feel good, are good for me (as part of my overall diet), and fill me up. But of course I can eat some ice cream as part of a sensible overall healthy diet and still be sated. (If it were a trigger food for me I might avoid it for a while and work on that.)
People who say there are no bad foods don't mean -- and I am sure that in reality you know this -- that what people eat overall makes no difference or that it's not important to consider how you feel or health. They mean that including some cheese (or pizza or chocolates) if you like it won't make your overall diet less healthy. If you can't eat chocolates without binging, don't eat it (at least for now) and work on that. But also don't pretend like it's possible to totally avoid every being tempted by them or blame the chocolate shop, the fact someone in a moving is eating chocolates, your husband for buying you chocolates (when you never said not to), someone for saying "hey, want a chocolate," your workplace for having chocolates around, etc., for the fact that you aren't losing weight. Learning how to deal with temptation is necessary.
So here is the thing: people took what I said about the burger thing, twisted my words and said I was speaking for everybody! This is my other problem with these boards. I was sharing my mindset on why burgers are a better choice then pizza. I was met with non-sensical comments like "so pizza is what leads everyone to be overweight?" Nope, once again, never said that. Where did you read me saying that? I thought my statements were very concise and there wasn't room for misinterpretation, but maybe I was wrong. Although, I'm not convinced that the problem is entirely me because I've witnessed this happen to others millions of times on here. Which is why I felt the need to point it out in one of my last posts. Then when I gave my opinion defending my stance I got attacked about how I was speaking for everyone and I shouldn't do that. (Which I wasn't, if you actually read what I wrote). Or people couldn't just let me feel that burgers were a better choice and kept explaining why they thought I was wrong. And some people were doing it in an insulting way. That's what I'm against. If you think pizza or both are better, great for you. But don't come back at me and be unkind with your opinion.
This is revisionist history. You were given lots of opportunities to clarify if what you mean was pizza is worse "for me." In fact, when people disagreed with you, they only said "it's not worse for ME," so you could have said, "that's exactly what I am saying." Instead, you kept insisting that it was worse for people in general or, you modified, for fat people in general.
You also did say that fat people, because they are fat people, obviously would not be satisfied with 2 pieces of pizza but would be able to eat lower cal burgers and for some reason should be assumed to be likely to overeat pizza, not burgers. That's all that (ridiculous) debate was about.
Now you are trying to pretend like people said stuff they didn't. Not sure why, seems odd to me.
Some people get offended when people don't agree with them, others get offended when people ignore them, even more look for reasons to get offended then react, then there are others who are always opposites and even more who always agree
Some hold a grudge others don't
Some learn others already feel they know everything
Some sites suit some people others should switch off the Internet
It takes all sorts
Isn't it glorious
When I'm Queen of The World, you'll be pleased to know I'm not going to change this, because I like that we're not all the same (not saying I'd want to hang out with some of the people that have different ways, but I'm glad that they are comfortable with expressing them...mainly so that I know who to avoid).4 -
I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.
When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.0 -
I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Most people who have issue with the addiction comment do agree that it is a behavioural addiction2 -
I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.
When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.
That's what everyone has been saying2 -
Haha sorry, I ready the OP only.0
-
CurlyCockney wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.
Kudos to you for empowering your daughter!I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.
When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.
When I was calling food bad it was a vicious cycle.
I want cake,
no it's bad,
no it taste good.
Ahh eats slice of cake
Oh no I ate a bad food
Oh no that make ME bad
But it tastes good
Well I'm bad might as well eat the whole cake
Eats whole cake
I'm bad
Now I see cake as neither good nor bad. Therefore I'm not bad when I eat one slice.6 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...
I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)
Wait.
Hold up.
That's next week...
isn't it?
Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.3 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »i am actually teaching my daughter right now how to deal with name calling. most of the stuff they say at school is so silly anyway. Anyone calls her a name she is to tell them thank you. She has used it a few times and her class mates at the other end repeat themselves and she repeats her thank you with a you are such a good friend. The class mate will then tell her she is weird and walk away. It so much better than go back and forth using silly words. Its also teaching her to not take everything said verbally so seriously.
Kudos to you for empowering your daughter!I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.
When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.
When I was calling food bad it was a vicious cycle.
I want cake,
no it's bad,
no it taste good.
Ahh eats slice of cake
Oh no I ate a bad food
Oh no that make ME bad
But it tastes good
Well I'm bad might as well eat the whole cake
Eats whole cake
I'm bad
Now I see cake as neither good nor bad. Therefore I'm not bad when I eat one slice.
That's what they teach in inpatient and day hospital eating disorder programs (or at least ones for anorexia and bulimia). We ate a variety of foods including cake, and lots of things we previously would call bad. We had outings to McDonalds and Chinese buffets and similar places under strict supervision by a dietitian (in order not to restrict/binge and to feel safer) to teach us that you can include these in our life and nothing bad will happen. Adding morality to food is a huge problem in EDs and causes a ot of unnecessary guilt.8 -
I think food addiction is similar to sex addiction. It does exist and can be extremely hard to break out of. When people say it's not, I think they're really just trying not to be open minded.
Moderation is a goal, but it takes time to get there for many people.
When people say food is bad in this context, it means it's bad for their mental well being.
As singingflutelady says, I don't think it's being argued against as a behavior addiction.
I believe that there's an eating addiction (a behavioral issue with eating), as well as perhaps other sorts of compulsive eatings and bingeing disorder. What I don't believe is that it's possible to be physically addicted to pizza vs. other foods that are in essence identical to pizza. Nor do I believe that rat studies mean that humans have no choice about whether or not to consume a sugary food.
Ironically, most of what annoys me when proclaimed in these threads would be untrue even if said about someone with something I believe is an addiction, because I believe that taking responsibility and ownership of the issue is essential for overcoming any problem with addiction.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...
I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)
Wait.
Hold up.
That's next week...
isn't it?
Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.
I just had a mild panic attack thinking I missed it, too. Here in Canada, we don't change back until next weekend. I just looked it up. 5 -
cmriverside wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...
I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)
Wait.
Hold up.
That's next week...
isn't it?
Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.
Curly's in England.2 -
Verity1111 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Puppybear1 wrote: »Sugar is a drug. And just like alcoholics, some people have genetic predispositions for addiction, ie - diabetics. I have been preaching this topic for a week and fending off the shade I get for comparing sugar to drugs, but it IS a drug, or food companies wouldn't put it in practically everything! Kudos to the Enlightened!
Sugar isn't a drug. It's just sugar.
It is very similar to a drug.
NO.
You've never been around someone who has had an actual addiction, or even been there yourself.
*sigh*
I once thought I was addicted to sugar; turns out, I was just eating far too much and looking for an excuse to not lose weight.4 -
queenliz99 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Did this evolve into a mean people thread? That's not really allowed on Sunday...
I blame the clocks changing, because it's all about blaming something/someone else ;-)
Wait.
Hold up.
That's next week...
isn't it?
Because that's why I'm using the sundial AV - to remind me.
Curly's in England.
Oh!
Well, carry on with your (not "your" but...your...) "hurt feelers," thread.
...at least I'm in now ...and not late for something. 5 -
Okay, that scared me. Someone locked the thread.
I mean, the OP was basically saying, "Everyone should worry about this 700 pound guy's feelings and not eat his triggery foods around him."
I'm an alcoholic in recovery. If I was never around alcohol I would have a very sad, small life. I cannot and will not blame anyone else for my inability to moderate alcohol intake. I also am not about to "lobby" for my friends to stop drinking alcohol. I mean, that is an exercise in futility if ever I heard one.10 -
Verity1111 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Puppybear1 wrote: »Sugar is a drug. And just like alcoholics, some people have genetic predispositions for addiction, ie - diabetics. I have been preaching this topic for a week and fending off the shade I get for comparing sugar to drugs, but it IS a drug, or food companies wouldn't put it in practically everything! Kudos to the Enlightened!
Sugar isn't a drug. It's just sugar.
It is very similar to a drug.
If you need to cast yourself and others in the role of a victim, go right ahead. Doesn't make it the truth, though.
I could say the same about drug addicts then.
No, you cannot.
Sugar is not a drug.
When you or anyone cuts out sugar, do you experience:- Deep depression and suicidal thoughts?
- Immense all-over pain?
- Irritability to the point that you need to be restrained?
- Emotional instability?
- Anxiety attacks?
- Restlessness all day and night and/or insomnia?
- Sweating, hot flashes.
- Flu-like symptoms: weakness, body aches and headaches.
- Lack of or increased appetite.
While you're on sugar, do you?- Have the need to steal sugar items or money to obtain sugar items from loved ones and friends?
- Sell or pawn all your items (including items with sentimental value as well as monetary value) to get a sugar fix?
- Act irrational when you don't have sugar. Become overly depressed or violent?
- Constantly lie to loved ones and create excuses to justify your sugar abuse?
- Instant change in mood when you do get sugar?
- Need more and more sugar to be satisfied?
- Bipolar like symptoms?
I can guarantee that the answer is NO.
How do I know this? Lots of experiences with friends and loved ones, and perhaps a personal one. I even lost a friend due to deep depression which caused overdose.
Please stop with this utter nonsense about sugar being addicting.
And, authority nutrition is NOT an actual authority of nutrition.
14 -
I'm a little confused about this thread as I've been trying to read along and it has changed direction a number of times (no surprise, that happens a lot and good discussion should evolve along with the thread). I'm trying to figure out if this thread is about a super morbidly obese friend of the OP and some of his insensitive friends who continue to bring food to his house even when he has asked them not to.... or if it is about whether sugar or certain foods are addictive.... or if it is about whether people rely too heavily on a victim mindset when others have good yet maybe misguided intentions (ie giving chocolates as a gift to someone who only recently started a weight loss journey)...or if it's about the concept of moderation vs abstinence... or if it's about labeling foods good and bad and whether that's a healthy mindset... or if it's about the tone of people's responses and whether that makes some people "mean"...
Anyway while the thread was temporarily locked I figured out what I ultimately wanted to contribute to this thread.
I'm all for trying to be sympathetic and help an individual who has gotten to the point of being 700 lbs and has lost hundreds of pounds already (although this example seems really extreme and almost like a convenient thread starter). That said, I think there are vastly more people who are deluded into believing the food addiction concept, woe is me, everything has to be labeled as good or bad, anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't understand my struggles.... and that mentality can greatly benefit from hearing that foods don't have to be labeled good or bad, that it is possible to exercise moderation, that learning to moderate is an ongoing, challenging practice but can result in finally being empowered to address the root cause of the issues, not blame the food itself or saboteurs. So while it may come across as insensitive to some, I think the odds of helping some overcome that negative mindset, trying to get people to abandon the addiction concept and victim mentality is going to make a much bigger difference for many people than the rare super morbidly obese person whose friends are just kittenholes and who needs people to validate their struggle (which again, tremendous respect for anyone trying to lose weight and acknowledgement that losing hundreds of pounds to save your own life is vastly different than the struggles that many people have had to deal with) and cheer them on.
At the end of the day, whether you are 600 pounds trying to save your own life by losing hundreds of pounds, or trying to lose 30 lbs to get back to a healthy weight and certain level of physical fitness.... it is up to you. No one else. Blaming others, blaming certain foods, blaming a "mean person" in these forums is not going to make you lose the weight any faster or any more successfully.15
This discussion has been closed.
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