You are not just "weak" or "lazy". Food can be an ADDICTION.

Christine_72 wrote: »

johunt615 wrote: »

I'm thinking when I grew up in the 70's there was not a fast food place on every corner, we went out to eat on special occasions and the food portions are huge now. Eating out is cheap, social and its generally accepted eating out breakfast, lunch and dinner. I think that has something to do with the gradual rate of obesity.

Now that we have an obesity problem...

Add to that education on weight loss/management is being debated try this, no don't do that its bad for you. The "experts" rarely agree and if you do find success losing weight there is not much education on HOW to keep it off.

There was one Hungry Jacks (Burger king) about 30 minutes away from my house when i was a kid, and no Mcdonalds in Australia back then. Take away nights were a very special event, maybe once or twice a month. No such things as microwave meals, and dessert was reserved for when we had visitors. No video games, play stations or mobile phones, we walked or rode our bikes everywhere. There's no way my parents would drive me to a friends place, I had to walk or ride there myself. I can remember maybe 2 overweight kids in school, they were definitely not the norm.

I grew up the same way, in farmland USA.

Verity1111 wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

I'm guessing this is a response to another thread, but I'm also going to go out on a limb and say you didn't read his thread. Sugar and other junk foods do have an impact on the reward centers of the brain similar to snorting cocaine, petting a puppy, kissing someone you love, and stubbing your toe. It's the pain and pleasure area of the brain and a strong history of avoiding starvation has taught our ancestors brains that eating is good.

It doesn't matter. It goes further than that as well. And no it isn't only about other threads. There is something personal about it as I just added. I have a friend who's about 400lbs and was 700lbs. And he had asked more than once politely for his friends to not bring food to his house. His friends would come over bring alcohol and order pizza around this man who is on oxygen. Now this is an extreme example, but it makes the same point. You can handle yourself, fine, but some people can not say no and if they ask you to not tempt them or bring it around them - don't. It's that simple.

Then he should not ask them to his house. It is unfair that he should have to do that but sometimes you have to take the responsibility on yourself.

newmeadow wrote: »

markrgeary1 wrote: »

My nephew is a drug addict. He's doing 5 years in state prison for robbery to support his addiction. How's is that like eating too many Milky Way bars?

It's like this.

People who eat too much food destroy themselves and isolate themselves in exchange for the pleasure that suicidal eating gives them.

They eat themselves into a miserable state of existence to the point where they can no longer live independently. They move to nursing homes. They go to hospitals and have their toes and limbs surgically removed due to gangrene onset from diabetic complications. They continue to eat bags of Milky Ways kept at their bedside at the hospital, post surgery, brought in by friends and family members because they get on the phone and beg and cry for candy, cookies, and chips. They steal food from roommates when they go on secretive binges and destroy friendships this way. They isolate with food and ignore their young children for hours at a time. They can't play with their kids. It's difficult for them to be intimate with their spouse. It often becomes impossible as the weight piles on, along with the destructive eating. They spend impossible amounts of money on food, money that could and should go to a down payment on a house or a car. They become increasingly socially and financially marginalized as the suicidal eating continues. They become unable to work anymore. You get the picture.

They do not viciously and violently intimidate people to get food. They do not physically assault people and worse, to get food. They do not steal the identities of family members and then open credit cards with $5,000 credit limits and then systematically withdraw that cash from ATMs to get food. (I'm not saying your nephew did any of these things. But this is common behavior for intensely addicted, long term drug users in general.) Aside from stealing food from roommates, suicidal eaters generally don't steal.

I'd spend social time with an end-stage morbidly obese individual any day. They can always visit my home and will be welcomed with open arms. I will visit their homes, overlook the unsanitary conditions if necessary, for the pleasure of talking with them and helping them any way I can. Which usually just involves being a friend to them, not preaching to them or offering unsolicited advice.

I will not be in the same room with a criminal drug addict or have anything to do with such an individual. I don't have the same concerns about suicidal eaters despite the fact they are both compelled to do destructive things in the pursuit of pleasure.

But no, no. Never call suicidal eaters "addicts" on MFP. Because they just aren't. Only the esteemed meth heads, whiskey drinkers and heroin users can be addicts. People who eat themselves to death, and isolated misery before death occurs, are just lacking in self control. They are worthy of nothing more than kitty gifs and inside jokes. Even from the very people who were once 100+ pounds overweight themselves, here at MFP. Go figure.

its not about not calling them that on here and no one is making a joke about addiction. My dad is a psychologist who has worked primarily with addictions his entire career. Not many consider food addiction in the same spectrum of drug addiction. As many have stated its more of a behavioral "addiction". If its an addiction then anything that releases endorphins would be an addiction in the same spectrum of substance. it doesnt matter how many times someone says i know my friend was addicted to pizza and became obese, it doesnt change the fact that its NOT the same. 99.9% of the people on this thread have no business classifying it as such. Just because someone decided to eat too much be it emotional eating or lack of self control... how many people do you know stealing, hurting, or killing people... over dosing and dying.. or living their lives in prison because they just needed to get that fix of sugar. honestly this thread should be closed because its disrespectful and plain annoying to those who suffer from real addictions.

newmeadow wrote: »

To this day, if I ever reveal to someone I Used To Drink Alcohol But I Haven't Had A Drop Since The Year 2000 - the response I get is a quiet, sincere and earnest You Had A Problem With That? And if I answer Yeah, I get the supportive acknowledgment with a somber, respectful and reverent head nod.

If I say I have a problem with food and eating (which is obvious since I weigh 245 pounds at 5'5") I'll typically get an uncomfortable glance followed with "Ah, why don't you go on a diet? Heh, heh. You'd look hot in a pair of tight pants if you were a size 8".

Interesting, and not entirely my experience. I think I was always more comfortable if people thought my failures were a result of choice on my part than simple weakness. The latter felt like being a loser, not normal, flawed in some greater way (but of course we are all flawed, so I admit this is me being stupid).

But my reaction to being fat was to make it clear I didn't care, ha, ha, I knew I was fat but didn't bother me. So long as people saw it as something I was choosing in some sense (if only because I didn't care to limit my eating or spend as much time as maybe I should exercising), then it was okay.

If I could have played off being a drunk the same way (heh, sometimes I just like to get crazy, even if I humiliate myself and annoy people or endanger my health) I think I would have preferred it. Goodness knows I could in college, but afterwards you get the concerned comments or just know that if people found out what they'd think (and I would have thought the same, since I did about various relatives). Also, I had contempt for my father when growing up for the same thing, so had contempt for myself, much harder to say "ha, ha, no big deal." I knew that it made me a loser in much more of a way.

Even after I quit, I never minded people knowing I didn't drink (lots of people don't drink). I really, really minded people knowing (or believing) that I couldn't drink, that there was something wrong with me so that I lacked control, and thought this meant that they likely figured that I might be untrustworthy, since you never know, people often relapse. (Time has helped with this, and just me becoming less of a neurotic, believe it or not, but for me the social stigma was much, much stronger. Probably weird since I know lots of former drunks and people don't seem to think less of them and I don't -- but most of them are not exactly running around announcing it to everyone and acting like it's a big thing.)

I also think that within addiction groups and so on (and I have really mixed feelings about these -- not so negative as yours, but still) there's a pretty good understanding of all the negative qualities that go along with addiction that I really don't think have a thing to do with the reasons most are overweight or obese. I think working on these qualities is a good thing that can happen with some recovery efforts. I also don't think that having a physical predilection for addiction or being an addict means that you are without responsibility for what you do, certainly have not sensed that from society (or ever felt that myself, although in some cases I just felt really sorry for the person, it is true), and certainly don't think it means it's not my choice whether I pick up a drink or not. I do think comparing the mindset where you would basically give up everything else you used to care about in exchange for continuing with the addiction (or thinking there is absolutely nothing else worth living for if you can't have that) to a desire to keep eating a pizza because it tastes so ridiculously good or even to have a cupcake because it's been a bad day and you know it will be delicious is a comparison that seems really off. Comparing the former and true compulsive eating or bingeing, yeah, I think it seems analogous, at least to some extent and sometimes to a very great extent (I saw an interview of a morbidly obese woman eating herself to death and it seemed to me exactly the same).

stevencloser wrote: »

Isabelle2222 wrote: »

paperpudding wrote: »

We'll it is not quite global - I doubt many people in Ethiopia have been hit by it.

I would say this relatively recent incidence of widespread obesity relates to more availability of food and availability of non movement ( cats, office jobs etc)

Most people in history in most of the world didn't over eat because there wasnt a surplus of food.
And they didn't under exercise because there was no non exercise way of doing things.

Hum ... But food have been abundant for most middle and upper class citizens in the USA and Canada for more than a century.

In any event, I would like to see an actual study to explain why people have a decrease in lack of willpower when it comes to EATING and WORKING OUT specifically. Because really, have we observed (as in: scientifically documented) the same laziness at work, or in school, or in other human endeavours?

Come on, be nice: someone tell me I am not the only one who wonders! ;-)

Again, this is just a plea for keeping an open mind on the subject. I think it's really interesting. It's nature and social science, not ideology!

Abundant food for more than a century? The same century that had the great depression and 2 world wars? Are we living on the same planet?

Yes. There was plenty of food or most people, most of the time, to get fat if they wanted. And as a matter of fact, many did.

I will say one definition of an addict that was taught in alanon was:

Any behavior that one continues to do that is harmful to themselves and/or others. (Its been years so paraphrasing)

If one accepts this definition then yes someone can be addicted to sugar or food.

BUT even with chemical addiction family members of the addict are told not to feel sorry for them, not to cater to them and ESPECIALLY not to enable them and one way to enable them is defending them and making excuses (secrets keep you sick). They are told that IF they chose to drink around the addict it's the addicts choice to stay sober and not the family members.

The addict is taught they are selfish, it's 100% their responsibility to stay clean and sober, no EXCUSES are allowed, if its a 12 step they have to make amends to those they've wronged, it's no cakewalk let me tell you. It's 100% tough love. And it's shear will power (a mind made up) that keeps them sober. (Yes I realize some relapse but the same above applies). Even the disputed "its a disease" is not an allowable excuse to drink.

So if someone feels like they are addicted to food/sugar I respectfully say you can't use it as an excuse and it's not as simple as saying I'm addicted so I can't help it. You got to do some and listen to some tough love to handle it.

I think food has gradually become more accessible to more people in the western world over the last 70 years or so , ie since the end of WW2. Especially commercially prepared and takeaway food - so 'less effort required' food
And that sort of food tends to be calorie dense.

At the same time car ownership has gradually increased as have the incidence of labour saving devices - washing machines, vaccuum cleaners etc. and improved public transport.
and more people live in apartments or properties with less outdoor space.
And more people have sedentary jobs
And sedentary pursuits like watching TV, computer games, play stations etc

None of this happened suddenly but incrementally over the last 70 years or so and as a result people, on average, eat more and move less.
One has to make a conscious decision to do otherwise, rather than have it occur 'naturally' as part of regular lifestyle, as happened in the past.