Why do some people struggle with losing weight?
Replies
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misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.5 -
On a simplistic level they consume more calories than they expend but this doesn't answer why, and that's where the complexities lie.4
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »
This. They are most likely not watching their calorie intake.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »They are consuming more calories than they burn. Unless there is a medical condition, that is the only reason.
Eating clean/healthy and exercise does not necessarily mean someone will lose weight.
Really, this is something that's often drastically understated by most people. It's MUCH more effective to restrict calories to lose weight, than it is to increase exercise to any appreciable degree. I can create a 1000 calorie deficit, even with my relatively piddly maintenance calories (2100) pretty easily. To burn an extra 1000 calories in a day via exercise? Yeah, I don't have a bunch of spare hours to spend making myself want to die on an elliptical. So what do you expect from the kind of people who think of walking their dog and washing laundry as exercise?
Walking the dog IS exercise. It might not burn as many calories per hour as running, but it is exercise. So is housework, under the right conditions. It's just hard to quantify compared to a lot of other things. That's why if people do it consistently it winds up under the activity level setting.
No, that's not exercise, unless you do them wearing full military loadouts of gear. Those are called "life". Just like food prep isn't exercise, unless you're a hibachi chef tossing knives and dodging fireballs all day.
I walk for exercise frequently. Sometimes it's alone. Sometimes it's with my husband. Sometimes it's with my dogs. It's all physical activity carried out to improve health/fitness, which means it's exercise.
This kind of thing is another reason why people struggle. They try to make healthy changes, which are pooh-poohed, and then they get frustrated and/or confused.
This conversation is interesting because it hits on my biggest frustration with the simplistic and often belittling responses that are given to posters. There are many who give thoughtful answers too but it's not always easy for beginners to sort through all the posts and figure out which are useful.
Don't get it twisted. I'm not saying that these things aren't useful or helpful. My point is more, this is the kind of stuff that should be factored into one's activity level, and not considered deliberate exercise. The disconnect between the two seems to be pretty common around here, and people fail to account for a lot of things during their inital setups.
In my opinion, there is zero difference between "activity" and "exercise". I generally fall into the "pick your best activity level and only log formal time 'working out'" camp, but that's just because it's easier - especially if your "activity" is broken into lots of little chunks over the course of the day (which are very difficult to log with any accuracy and are a pain in the butt to log).
That said, I find the activity level options on MFP to really lowball the amount of physical activity they allegedly correspond to. A teacher is "lightly active"? Maybe if they mostly sit at their desk while the students do worksheets, but no teacher I've ever met only burns 200-300 calories more than the sedentary setting on MFP (which is really really sedentary). A fulltime waitress only burns ~500 calories more per day than a sedentary worker with a desk job? Nonsense.
I eventually gave up on the activity levels here and got a FitBit synced (with negative calories enabled), but that's not feasible for everyone. I wish they'd list a representative number of steps/day for each activity level because I think that would give people a much better starting point (and pedometers are cheap).4 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
They need to watch their calorie intake and figure out what would be a deficit for them.2 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
I would have to agree.
I havent been here for very long (july this year) but its quite clear that this forum is "run" by 15-20 people. Those people will in general have a big post count, they are likely to throw a title in your face, and some of them tend to flag posts they simply disagree with.
And yes, the answer is far more complex.
For instance, we dont all have the same amount of fat cells in our body.
7 -
I get in about 70 minutes of walking the dogs every day. It burns, according to my pedometer, about 260 calories. That's probably pretty accurate, because eating back those calories I've been steadily losing weight at the expected rate given my net caloric intake/deficit (hint: it has also diminished greatly as I've lost 105 lbs). On top of that my blood pressure has dropped to 110/70 and my resting heart rate runs in the low 50s. When I wasn't walking, the blood pressure was about 120/80 and the resting heart rate in the 70s. So there's some clear indicators of better cardiovascular health in addition to the calorie burns. I don't particularly enjoy lifting weights, but I garden, landscape, and do housework, moving furniture around several times a week (let's just say I cannot abide dust bunnies). So I have some pretty strong muscles despite being too "lazy" to go fritter away time in a gym. Seems functional enough to me, and its enabled me to move my activity level from "sedentary" to "lightly active" (plus the walking).
The experts actually divide up exercise in low-intensity, moderate-intensity, and high-intensity categories. They are all exercise. They accomplish different things. And for a lot of people, simply increasing their low-intensity activity can yield some surprisingly positive results, particularly if they were very inactive. It is, however, really easy to overestimate calorie burns regardless of the activity you participate in. Aside from moving furniture, I wouldn't classify much housework as anything but "low intensity". Not even moving my really heavy Kirby vacuum cleaner around (and the time spent lugging that thing up/down stairs is negligible).
As far as walking the dogs go, maybe you have some little toy breed that walks at like, 10 feet a minute or something. Some of us have large, active dogs. And we take them out into the wilderness, across fields and up and down hills, playing Frisbee the entire time. Darn straight that's going to get counted as exercise. Particularly when it's also trudging through a foot or more of snow for 6 months out of the year.
"Struggling" with weight loss is generally a combination of psychological and physiological factors. Variable levels of stress, support, discipline, dedication, hormones, physical limitations, opportunities, and attitudes will all affect the perceived and real difficulty in losing weight.
I had a roommate in college who was perpetually underweight. She did not like the taste of food. She did not like the experience of eating. For her, eating was a chore that had to be accomplished to survive. I, on the other hand, loved food and loved eating. For me, keeping track of how much I eat is a chore that must be accomplished. CICO worked for both of us. It just doesn't lead to the same experience in life because we are not the same person living the same life.
CICO works for everyone. Achieving a sustained deficit or balance on the other hand has many paths.
I agree with this. I just try to move more. It's not always exercise on an elliptical machine or doing exercise videos. I just think to myself that I burn more standing than sitting, and that everything I do requires some form of energy to accomplish. So, I may only do 30 minutes of sustained exercise 6 days a week. However, I try to be more active in general. I honestly believe that has made a difference. So, doing laundry, cutting veggies, washing dishes, sweeping the garage.... all of it is some level of activity that is better than sitting on my tush.
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Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.14 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
CICO is a simplified explanation of a mathematical equation. What your CICO numbers are are different than mine, but that does not invalidate CICO.
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Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
I would have to agree.
I havent been here for very long (july this year) but its quite clear that this forum is "run" by 15-20 people. Those people will in general have a big post count, they are likely to throw a title in your face, and some of them tend to flag posts they simply disagree with.
And yes, the answer is far more complex.
For instance, we dont all have the same amount of fat cells in our body.
Stick around for another year and the people "in charge" will change.2 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
I would have to agree.
I havent been here for very long (july this year) but its quite clear that this forum is "run" by 15-20 people. Those people will in general have a big post count, they are likely to throw a title in your face, and some of them tend to flag posts they simply disagree with.
And yes, the answer is far more complex.
For instance, we dont all have the same amount of fat cells in our body.
Odd... I find that it's typically newer members that misuse the flag system. Not always, but typically.9 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Does CICO work or not?
Are the complexities that CICO works, however there are habits, behavior,medical and psychological reasons folks can't control CI?
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Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Does CICO work or not?
Are the complexities that CICO works, however there are habits, behavior,medical and psychological reasons folks can't control CI?
The only issue is if a medical condition moves someone from the "normal" of what CI or CO is. The online calculators assume a normal biology. They are also estimates. But they are close enough for most people. If someone has a medical issue, it means they can't use the normal calculators (say their actual BMR is substantially lower than the norm) and they need to figure out what their level is. It doesn't invalidate CICO, but it does make it harder to determine.
As for the map linked above, I think someone has finally come up with a web site more confusing than the Time Cube site.7 -
JaydedMiss wrote: »Honestly im on the band wagon with self control. I know alot of women who blame their hormones and pcos and people like oh im busy or work is hard im tired so i just eat there or My family ate this so i did to. But it comes down to did you burn more thn you ate or not. Pretty simple. Even for people who cant exercise. People struggle because they hide behind excuses 80% of the time, And 19.9% is just lack of educating themselves.
pcos is a medical condtion . not an excuse
i have pcos and have lost 40lbs but it thats me it can be harder for someone w/ a medical condtion to loose weight5 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.4 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Does CICO work or not?
Are the complexities that CICO works, however there are habits, behavior,medical and psychological reasons folks can't control CI?
CICO works for fat loss. There are habits, behaviors, medical, biological and psychological factors that can affect CI, CO, and weight loss.7 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Does CICO work or not?
Are the complexities that CICO works, however there are habits, behavior,medical and psychological reasons folks can't control CI?
CICO works for fat loss. There are habits, behaviors, medical, biological and psychological factors that can affect CI, CO, and weight loss.
^ Agreed.1 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Your insistence that I do not use critical thinking when I give the advice I do and calling me "the help" are both disparaging. There is no way around that.15 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Your insistence that I do not use critical thinking when I give the advice I do and calling me "the help" are both disparaging. There is no way around that.
I agree you'd think that. If you knew me better you wouldn't. Please understand that I'm simply trying to help and in no way trying to offend.0 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
I would have to agree.
I havent been here for very long (july this year) but its quite clear that this forum is "run" by 15-20 people. Those people will in general have a big post count, they are likely to throw a title in your face, and some of them tend to flag posts they simply disagree with.
And yes, the answer is far more complex.
For instance, we dont all have the same amount of fat cells in our body.
I'd say that the issue is more complex when it comes down to providing individualized feedback that isn't always easy to do in the context of back and forth forum posts and soundbyte style information.
Just for example it doesn't necessarily help someone to say "eat fewer calories" since it doesn't address ways to do that nor does it address potential pitfalls someone may have.
Issues like sleep, life stress, and then strategic things like how they go about trying to eat less -- all of these things matter.
But for purposes of completeness, CICO still works. It's just that it doesn't necessarily guide someone on how to execute a fat loss plan.
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CICO is an absolute. I know this because I'm an engineer. There is no way out of it, sorry. If your body is getting bigger over time, it's collecting matter from somewhere. It does that by taking in more energy than it burns. If you argue with that proposition I'm not going to take your argument seriously unless you can convince me you have disproved the entirety of physics. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Of course, there are complicating factors in how you apply it. Some people have medical conditions that make them burn less energy than others, like hypothyroidism or PCOS. Or maybe more, as in hyperthyroidism.
Other people have medical conditions which mean they absorb less energy from their food than others, or perhaps are less able to store it properly (I assume that's what is meant by the remark about "different numbers of fat cells").
And of course any estimation of the energy contained in food, or the energy burned through exercise, are not exact and can be thrown off by various factors.
But none of this upsets the basic principlethatif your body is getting bigger, you are taking in more energy than you burn, and the only way to make it smaller is to take in less than you burn. There are not many things that are certain in this life, but you can take that to the bank.16 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Your insistence that I do not use critical thinking when I give the advice I do and calling me "the help" are both disparaging. There is no way around that.
I don't really know if there's more background here that I don't know about (either Dan's history on the board or your interactions with him.) Did he specifically say you are not using critical thinking or are you referring to the broad comment about critical thinking? I'm asking because I read the broad comment and nodded rather than thinking it was pointed at me. I think there is a lack of nuanced thought and advice on many threads. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, because it does. There are certainly many posters who use critical thinking when responding rather than parroting back basic responses. But I'd say that there are as many who do not. There's a bit of a "Why don't these homeless people just get jobs?" vibe here a lot, in that complexities are minimized.7 -
I think there is a lack of nuanced thought and advice on many threads. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, because it does. There are certainly many posters who use critical thinking when responding rather than parroting back basic responses. But I'd say that there are as many who do not. There's a bit of a "Why don't these homeless people just get jobs?" vibe here a lot, in that complexities are minimized.
Problem is that weight loss is a simple issue to resolve. But being simple does not make it easy. Most here (from what I've seen) are trying to avoid complicating the issue. If you aren't losing weight, it's because you are eating more than you are burning. If there are medical issues that make it harder to burn, or whatever, then they can be brought up and discussed. But to complicate it beyond that is counter productive. That doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of hard work to lose weight, but the way to lose is not complicated.
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grmckenzie wrote: »I think there is a lack of nuanced thought and advice on many threads. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, because it does. There are certainly many posters who use critical thinking when responding rather than parroting back basic responses. But I'd say that there are as many who do not. There's a bit of a "Why don't these homeless people just get jobs?" vibe here a lot, in that complexities are minimized.
Problem is that weight loss is a simple issue to resolve. But being simple does not make it easy. Most here (from what I've seen) are trying to avoid complicating the issue. If you aren't losing weight, it's because you are eating more than you are burning. If there are medical issues that make it harder to burn, or whatever, then they can be brought up and discussed. But to complicate it beyond that is counter productive. That doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of hard work to lose weight, but the way to lose is not complicated.
I actually don't agree with this, respectfully.
Diet adherence is quite complex and you can have a great understanding about calories and still be unable to consistently execute whatever plan you're on to lose weight.
And so for example exploring things like sleep quality, food environment, grocery shopping habits, using a habit tracker, etc, can all be profoundly helpful even though these are topics other than calories.5 -
I don't think most people truly minimise the complexities - especially not the psychological and emotional complexities of losing weight. I think most people here would agree that that is where the battle is really fought.
But I think the people who emphasise and re-emphasise the simplicity of CICO are sick of seeing people stuck in obesity or on the crash diet treadmill because so many "information" sources deliberately complicate weight loss, usually for financial gain. It's base exploitation.
So when people simplify the physiology of it, it's because if you step back and look at the big picture, it really is as simple as eat less, move more. Yes it's hard physically, it's hard psychologically, it takes grit and self-knowledge and self-love and willingness to learn. But it's simple, and affordable, and yes, you can do it. It's an empowering message, where "obesity is affected by xxx factors outwith your control that you can't even understand and need to pay someone to fix" is utterly disempowering, and in the big-picture sense, simply not true.
So personally, I'm going to keep banging that drum.17 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »I don't think most people truly minimise the complexities - especially not the psychological and emotional complexities of losing weight. I think most people here would agree that that is where the battle is really fought.
But I think the people who emphasise and re-emphasise the simplicity of CICO are sick of seeing people stuck in obesity or on the crash diet treadmill because so many "information" sources deliberately complicate weight loss, usually for financial gain. It's base exploitation.
So when people simplify the physiology of it, it's because if you step back and look at the big picture, it really is as simple as eat less, move more. Yes it's hard physically, it's hard psychologically, it takes grit and self-knowledge and self-love and willingness to learn. But it's simple, and affordable, and yes, you can do it. It's an empowering message, where "obesity is affected by xxx factors outwith your control that you can't even understand and need to pay someone to fix" is utterly disempowering, and in the big-picture sense, simply not true.
So personally, I'm going to keep banging that drum.
I appreciate this reply, and quite honestly it's one of the pitfalls about talking of the influencing factors to food consumption habits and exercise.
Those factors are important but as you mention it's hard to discuss those without the disempowerment that COULD arise from that.
And on the flipside, you ALSO have people who disregard those factors and think that you're either able to use willpower or you must be lazy or dumb, and I take a huge issue with that. And I don't at all think you're one of those people.
Solid post.5 -
It is all down to Motivation, we don't struggle, we just decide it's esier to not go all the way when it Comes to Training and Diet.
I don't struggle to loose weight i get up at 5:30 every morning and bust my *kitten* on the weights 5 times a week and do 4 one hour cardio sessions wa week + 3 x HIIT
Only two meals a day, the first one at 12:30 and the second one at 16:30 (so when i get up in the morning to Train...i am hungry)
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grmckenzie wrote: »I think there is a lack of nuanced thought and advice on many threads. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, because it does. There are certainly many posters who use critical thinking when responding rather than parroting back basic responses. But I'd say that there are as many who do not. There's a bit of a "Why don't these homeless people just get jobs?" vibe here a lot, in that complexities are minimized.
Problem is that weight loss is a simple issue to resolve. But being simple does not make it easy. Most here (from what I've seen) are trying to avoid complicating the issue. If you aren't losing weight, it's because you are eating more than you are burning. If there are medical issues that make it harder to burn, or whatever, then they can be brought up and discussed. But to complicate it beyond that is counter productive. That doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of hard work to lose weight, but the way to lose is not complicated.
I actually don't agree with this, respectfully.
Diet adherence is quite complex and you can have a great understanding about calories and still be unable to consistently execute whatever plan you're on to lose weight.
And so for example exploring things like sleep quality, food environment, grocery shopping habits, using a habit tracker, etc, can all be profoundly helpful even though these are topics other than calories.
But being simple does not make it easy. My point is that arguing against CICO is counter productive. "Eat less and move more" as an idea is a simple, and good idea. How you go about that is where it gets hard.5 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Does CICO work or not?
Are the complexities that CICO works, however there are habits, behavior,medical and psychological reasons folks can't control CI?
CICO works for fat loss. There are habits, behaviors, medical, biological and psychological factors that can affect CI, CO, and weight loss.
I totally get that. I guess my point is that it seems a little irresponsible to not add the bolded caveat. When saying "CICO is not the only answer". It tends to breed the mentality that "I can't help it". While that maybe the case psychologically its not the case physically correct?
It seems that CICO works except in rare medical instances.
Habits, behaviors and psychological factors wouldn't inhibit CICO because usually these lead to eating more calories. Am I correct?2 -
I think one.reason might be we tend to eat with our wallet .. an example I was buying a.frozen dinner ( I'm a guy lol ) and for 50 cents more I could have bought same thing with twice as many calories/twice the food ..
Same could be said about ..you want to up size that meal ..
Or that's a great restraunt they give you lots of food .. or were not going back it was good but small portions
Or how about food packages .. 2000 calorie average diet .. some gain on 2000 a day
Or who doesn't want to get there monies worth when they go to a buffet ?
Just some examples that the world we live in does not help ...
Some concider food with lots of calories healthy but candy is junk food ( like chocalate is bad )
Just some.thoughts
Good luck1 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
The vast majority are ignorant of what is needed to lose weight. Many cannot get past personal demons around food. Many of us have been conditioned to unhealthy habits such as clean your plate. Combine this with the vast amounts of predatory woo and misinformation out there profiting off this ignorance, then add to the lack of science education in the US and it becomes a bit clearer. With freedom comes responsibility, but it is far easier to delegate responsibility.
People are mostly unaware of their own habits and bias. If you had an impartial observer following them and monitoring behavior we would immediately see all the missed calories logged, the overestimation of workouts, etc.2
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