what NOT to eat
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Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
That is an interesting interpretation. With this definition, there is very little that isn't processed then.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
When I was first told about processed foods I did some research on processed foods. I still eat processed foods but I defined my own line as to what is "overly" or "highly" processed and still I need to make my own decisions on whether to eat them or not. More often than not I look for alternatives or lesser evils. Works for me.
You can't count on strangers (Pals here!
) on a messageboard to do all the work for you. I give opinions and ideas and if people are interested they will do the research like I did.
I'm not sure where "banana is processed" came into the discussion, I think the infographic was introduced to point out that the arbitrary rule of "nothing I can't pronounce" is kind of silly since every food is composed of chemicals and difficult to pronounce components.
I agree that everyone should do their own research and make decisions about what is best for each of us to include or exclude in our diets. However, as I pointed out, a significant number of people come to this site and these boards with misinformation propagated by social media and woo based pseudoscience trying to sell books. Many people are just not going to take the time to do extensive research for themselves. They often attempt to follow these rules they believe are necessary, and when they find them too restrictive, they simply give up altogether.
It came about when someone made the mistake of trying to define what "processed" foods are. Nothing is "arbitrary" - just like the number of ingredients isn't arbitrary. They are just guidelines. A piece of fruit is a piece of fruit. But if you go to buy some fruit juice and the fruit on the label isn't even listed in the long list of ingredients... you have a decision to make. That's all.
It's arbitrary if there is no set definition and the application of the rules varies from individual to individual. Based on random choices and individual whim is the very definition of arbitrary and that's exactly what happens when trying to implement "no processed foods" or "I eat clean".3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
That is an interesting interpretation. With this definition, there is very little that isn't processed then.
Well even if you don't consider that processing cooking is a form of processing so yup very little is unprocessed0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.
I was actually only commenting on the genetic modification part. I am completely uninterested in this whole "define processed" thing. But I found that part interesting.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
That is an interesting interpretation. With this definition, there is very little that isn't processed then.
Well even if you don't consider that processing cooking is a form of processing so yup very little is unprocessed
Cooking is different from genetic modification and plant breeding. But you guys are preaching to the choir. I have no issue at all with processed foods. None.0 -
I'm off to google the difference between man made bananas v wild bananas. .4
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flippy1234 wrote: »I just stopped drinking alcohol. We will see how long it lasts...
Anyway, I want to get lean. I know WHAT to eat but not what NOT to eat.
Any suggestions as to what NOT to eat so I can eliminate it from my diet and thoughts?
Thanks!
I stopped drinking alcohol Sept 6, 1997. At the time I dropped 14 lbs over 6 months without trying!3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.
I was actually only commenting on the genetic modification part. I am completely uninterested in this whole "define processed" thing. But I found that part interesting.
The modification of the banana is not the same thing as GMOs, though, and of course it has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas. (I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term and that keeping GMO talk out of this thread is a good thing.)0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Don't eat cake, ice cream, maple syrup, candy, donuts, potato chips, cookies, juices, bagels and stay away from sodas.
This. Sugar makes you hungrier cause you get an insulin spike and then your blood sugar drops and you get hungry again. If you count your cals and have a deficit that will work but that will be much harder if you eat sugar IMO.
Perhaps if you were building a diet exclusively from these things that would be a concern, but when I eat these foods it is usually in combination with other things so this purported insulin spike either doesn't happen or I seem to be not significantly impacted by this imminent hunger.
I do IF and I've eaten sugar at the end of my meal time and have lost weight doing that. Recently I've been struggling with gout and gave up sugar to see if that would help and it has helped a lot I believe (better in a couple of days after a month long attack) and I lost 2-lbs over the Christmas Holiday even though I ate a lot but didn't have any straight sugary stuff whatsoever (I tried this starting just before Christmas). That loss tells me that my eating sugar might have been slowing my weight loss down. I don't think it was just getting rid of extra cals because I ate a lot of cheese instead and put down a lot of cals. I'm going to keep experimenting and see what happens.
The sugar causing hunger isn't a thing if I eat it at the end of the day after my meals. If I eat something sugary for breakfast or cheat on my fasting, it definitely will cause a lot of hunger that way.
I don't know anything about gout and how sugar may contribute to those symptoms. I would say though that your medical condition and the impact of sugar on that is different than saying that sugar is bad for everyone and that everyone should cut out the things listed above. The logic you use about feeling hungry is largely an individual thing, as I and I'm sure many others do not have that same experience, yet the way it was written saying "sugar makes you hungrier" seems to imply that is a universal truth.
I'm also curious about your weight loss over the holidays and your belief that not consuming sugar had something to do with that. Were you tracking calories during that time? And you are saying this is the same amount of calories in total just with less sugar, resulting in a 1-2 lb loss? I'm seeing a lot of scale fluctuation this week which is normal for weeks of indulgence followed by trying to get back on track, is it possible that what you're seeing is loss of water weight or some other normal fluctuation and not directly attributed to change in sugar consumption?
I thought eating sugar early did make everyone hungry so I did state it that way. If some don't that is great but I do think most people respond that way. I'm mostly interested in not eating sugar to help with gout but if it does help me to lose weight, then that is a bonus (before this week, I've enjoyed a sugary desert about everynight while on my IF diet and have lost about 40 lbs doing that). I'm not doing a controlled experiment or anything so I'm not sure what has caused the weight loss but as of this morning it is actually 3-lbs since last saturday (and my gout has about all gone away)! I will need to experiment more and get back into my normal routines to see if it continues. I don't count calories much anymore since I've been able to lose without doing that and don't want to spend the time doing that. I hope it continues like this, that would be great!0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
Geez... some people just argue to argue.
3 -
I love processed bananas. That fresh store bought taste is the best.4
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.
I was actually only commenting on the genetic modification part. I am completely uninterested in this whole "define processed" thing. But I found that part interesting.
The modification of the banana is not the same thing as GMOs, though, and of course it has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas. (I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term and that keeping GMO talk out of this thread is a good thing.)
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I do not feel today's bananas are processed because they've been bred by humans. That's all I said. In fact I was among the first to say I didn't think it made them processed.
I'm also not the one who started it. I never said gmo. I said genetic modification in reference to zysts post. Not sure why that warrants this.0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
Geez... some people just argue to argue.
You don't know why I argue. You can't just assume the reasons I argue.8 -
matthelmet wrote: »flippy1234 wrote: »I just stopped drinking alcohol. We will see how long it lasts...
Anyway, I want to get lean. I know WHAT to eat but not what NOT to eat.
Any suggestions as to what NOT to eat so I can eliminate it from my diet and thoughts?
Thanks!
I stopped drinking alcohol Sept 6, 1997. At the time I dropped 14 lbs over 6 months without trying!
Congratulations!0 -
A fresh banana isn't "processed" -- It is raw. I think of "processed" as refined, preserved, and/or cooked. Gerber banana baby food has been processed, for instance. Banana cream pie and banana bread has been processed.1
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Tacklewasher wrote: »
Go get a banana at the store. Go get a banana from a Musa acuminata plant in SE Asia. You tell me if they're identical.
I take a literal interpretation of "processed", which includes intervention by humans, so yeah, in my book a banana you can buy from the store is processed.
Geez... some people just argue to argue.
You don't know why I argue. You can't just assume the reasons I argue.
LOL!! Post of the day! 1 -
A fresh banana isn't "processed" -- It is raw. I think of "processed" as refined, preserved, and/or cooked. Gerber banana baby food has been processed.
It's been processed with processed bananas bought in the grocery store. You have to go to a factory in southeast Asia if you want a fresh banana.4 -
A fresh banana isn't "processed" -- It is raw. I think of "processed" as refined, preserved, and/or cooked. Gerber banana baby food has been processed.
It's been processed with processed bananas bought in the grocery store. You have to go to a factory in southeast Asia if you want a fresh banana.
It might be ripened. But fresh raw banana is not "processed".0
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