Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Ketogenic overfeeding n=1 experiment by Wittrock
Replies
-
singingflutelady wrote: »Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
I can't read the cartoon... What does it say?
Jimmy Moore is not a small man but he started at over 400 lbs and has maintained a loss of about 100 lbs, plus he has outlived close family members of similar size and shape. I believe that is why he considers his own journey a success story so far.
My low fat diet really works! The fat hangs lower every day.
Thanks.0 -
I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.5 -
I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.
One of the things I really appreciate about you is that even though you are pro Keto you are honest about CICO and your own experience of overeating on Keto and gaining weight.
4 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.
One of the things I really appreciate about you is that even though you are pro Keto you are honest about CICO and your own experience of overeating on Keto and gaining weight.
She is to keto, what @janejellyroll is to veganism.
4 -
I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.
So I went through and calculated everyone (we have the same market down the street) and i looked at anderson reserve site to look at portions. I calculated, 2547 calories; 49g cho, 133g pro, 198g fat without supplements... so probably 2600 calories at least. It's hard to exactly tell since he doesn't weigh items. Beef is 6oz and so was fish; with 2 servings of roasted pumpkin seeds since he snacked in the car and at night (depending on how much he snacks, it could definitely be more). So 2600 to 3000 is reasonable based on studies suggesting the average person can under estimate by as much as 400 calories. But depending on how much he actually snacks throughout the day, it could be more or less.
So if this is a typical day, then he and I are fairly close to intake.2 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.
One of the things I really appreciate about you is that even though you are pro Keto you are honest about CICO and your own experience of overeating on Keto and gaining weight.
Well thanks.
Now... everybody should be doing keto!! Kidding, kidding.I went through a few of his past videos and found a video he did on a full day of eating keto.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TH1c_qucc
Definitely looked over 2000 kcals to me. He ate:
coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil
4 eggs with cheese, a salsa like veggie and fruit topping and sour cream
possibly a snack of pumpkin seeds
ground beef (guessing about 4 oz) topped with cheese, salsa like stuff and sour cream
salmon (~5 oz? with olive oil), spinach and almond milk
a snack of sunflower seeds
Really similar protein intake to his 4K challenge. It was just the oils and fats that he added more of... which may explain why he had such a hard time eating it.
I have no idea what his caloric total was, nor his macros. I would guess around 3K.
So I went through and calculated everyone (we have the same market down the street) and i looked at anderson reserve site to look at portions. I calculated, 2547 calories; 49g cho, 133g pro, 198g fat without supplements... so probably 2600 calories at least. It's hard to exactly tell since he doesn't weigh items. Beef is 6oz and so was fish; with 2 servings of roasted pumpkin seeds since he snacked in the car and at night (depending on how much he snacks, it could definitely be more). So 2600 to 3000 is reasonable based on studies suggesting the average person can under estimate by as much as 400 calories. But depending on how much he actually snacks throughout the day, it could be more or less.
So if this is a typical day, then he and I are fairly close to intake.
Thanks for figuring that out. I was coming back to do that today.
Your estimation seems really reasonable. Somewhere between 2600 and 3000 is probably right.
For his challenge he added an extra tablespoon or three of butter or coconut oil to his coffee. That's pretty filling right there. He also added extra fats to "keto shakes" and extra fats on his meats and veggies. A few days he did spoonfuls of oil. Yuck.
He really did manage to keep carbs and protein about the same in the challenge. It pretty much was just increased fats. He even had a a good number of days where protein was lower than his typical day. I think he had protein down to the 60s or 70s on one day early on.
It really is a shame he didn't have a better baseline. He could do that as a challenge next. 2K per day on keto? I wonder how much he would lose. Oh well, he supposedly dramatically tossed his scale so I doubt he'll do another challenge.0 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him
Ah, the level of debate has got to there. What's next - Hitler ?
I don't recall Moore having so little hair, but perhaps it's a photo from 10 years ago or something. This is from last month (the logo on the wall is from a conference) although the group were organisers of an event last year hence the title.
2 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him
Ah, the level of debate has got to there. What's next - Hitler ?
I don't recall Moore having so little hair, but perhaps it's a photo from 10 years ago or something. This is from last month (the logo on the wall is from a conference) although the group were organisers of an event last year hence the title.
A quick Google search shows that the source (not surprisingly) is a tweet of Evelyn "carbsane" and she says the photo is from January 2016.
Jimmy Moore's troubles are well known though.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the next level. Considering the number of her followers, they surely aren't going to attempt to invade Poland any time soon.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
@psuLemon Since you were interested: Dexa today says 15.8%, so higher than where I expected, but not by much. Ironically, the part I though was most muscular (legs) actually holds the most fat.
ETA: RMR shows 1,500 even; 92% fat (since I am fat adapted, that is not unreasonably high).1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
@psuLemon Since you were interested: Dexa today says 15.8%, so higher than where I expected, but not by much. Ironically, the part I though was most muscular (legs) actually holds the most fat.
ETA: RMR shows 1,500 even; 92% fat (since I am fat adapted, that is not unreasonably high).
Interesting results.1
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions