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Ketogenic overfeeding n=1 experiment by Wittrock
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And 10 lbs? Eek!0
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I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.0
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I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
If there's a legitimate mechanism behind it, it would be good to actually pin it down. "Fat doesn't make you fat" isn't a legitimate mechanism on it's own, considering how easy it is for the body to store fat, compared to the other three macros.4 -
It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
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VintageFeline wrote: »Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......
Mead isn't in the slightest an "English" thing
It was made right across Europe, Africa and Asia for several thousand years but fell out of favour in the last few hundred as distilled spirts became available.
Either way our N=1 isn't likely to be chugging any in this experiment
BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »As for nuts, I've had a rough week - ate more than 2 lbs. of various nuts in the last 3 days - Brazil nuts, walnuts, and pecans. If it is true, perhaps my gain won't be as bad as expected from based on calories alone.
@midwesterner85 I guess you could potentially ignore 75% of the nuts' calories. Did it have any effect on your insulin needs for your high nut meals? 25% less insulin used? I'm curious.
No, in fact the nuts seemed to make me need even more insulin than what would have been expected; though it is tough to say because I ate other things around the same time.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
You aren't exactly metabolically healthy. Considering that Type I is not exactly a very common condition. So using you as a model, wouldn't exactly be appropriate.2 -
I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I wouldn't say he is lying. My biggest argument is he didn't baseline caloric requirements before he started this experiment. Saying, "oh, I eat roughly 2000 calories a day, so 4000 calories must make me gain like crazy", is a bit ill informed. If you spend more than 10 minutes in the gaining weight section (largely those who are really into lifting and taking their physique to the next level - like Jason), you will easily recognize where people's TDEE actually sit. Most guys in that group maintain at roughly 3000 calories. Most women are 2400. Heck, there are a lot of 5'2, 100lb women who maintain at 1800 calories without exercise. So what is the likelihood, that a 5'7, 147 (as of day 9), extremely fit male who exercises almost daily (depending on how he feels), with a young child, and is metabolically healthy actually maintains at 2000 calories?
I actually find this experiment interesting and have been following it. I laugh when he vilifies carbs and throws in his promotions, but overall, it's pretty good advice.... and I might have to look up that keto mousse. That looks amazing.
ETA: because apparently, I fail English.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.0 -
I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.
That is correct. Some seem to do fine with keto bulks. I just got fat and weak on an SKD surplus, so switched to CKD. Then I just got fat, even though the strength was better.
ETA: the really hilarious part, is that the bulk was through my noob gains phase, so that's the least likely time one should have put on the kind of fat I did, running the relatively light surplus that I was. 2800/week for two months of keto gave me 2.5 lbs./week, and a bunch of lard that took me a month and a half of RFL to cut off. This time I'm averaging 3800/week for 1.1/week (40/30/30 p/f/c), been at it for two and a half months, and my estimates so far figure that two weeks of the same cut method will set me back to start again.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.
Fat's not a good calorie source for muscle building I'm guessing?0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.
Fat's not a good calorie source for muscle building I'm guessing?
Insulin is very important for mps. Fat doesn't exactly do much to provoke it. Even a higher protein intake than what most think of with keto didn't help; or at least didn't help as much as carbs are this bulk.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.
Fat's not a good calorie source for muscle building I'm guessing?
Insulin is very important for mps. Fat doesn't exactly do much to provoke it. Even a higher protein intake than what most think of with keto didn't help; or at least didn't help as much as carbs are this bulk.
Yeah, carbs and lean gains go best together due to insulin. Bulking on keto can be done, people are doing it, but it isn't as fast or effective as with carbs.
Wittrock achieved his physique before keto. At this point, I think he is going for maintaining it while keto... I don't think you could improve his physique much.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's not saying he's lying to call out the lack of scientific controls in how his "experiment" was carried out.
Gallowmere's bulked using keto. Shall we ask him what his experience was? Will that be valid? Why are these you tube breathless day by day accounts the only valid ones?
There's a whole forum over on bodybilding.com of people who bulked on keto. You can obviously gain weight eating keto.
If we did, it sure wasn't pretty as he just got fat. IIRC, he current bulk has been a lot more successful and it's not keto based.
Fat's not a good calorie source for muscle building I'm guessing?
Insulin is very important for mps. Fat doesn't exactly do much to provoke it. Even a higher protein intake than what most think of with keto didn't help; or at least didn't help as much as carbs are this bulk.
Yeah, carbs and lean gains go best together due to insulin. Bulking on keto can be done, people are doing it, but it isn't as fast or effective as with carbs.
Wittrock achieved his physique before keto. At this point, I think he is going for maintaining it while keto... I don't think you could improve his physique much.
Depends on how you look at it. Compared to a lot of high end powerlifters, dude is really tiny. I've seen some seriously lean 190+ guys at 5'1"-5'3". Granted, this isn't "normal" or "natty", but there's always room for improvement.0 -
baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »As for nuts, I've had a rough week - ate more than 2 lbs. of various nuts in the last 3 days - Brazil nuts, walnuts, and pecans. If it is true, perhaps my gain won't be as bad as expected from based on calories alone.
@midwesterner85 I guess you could potentially ignore 75% of the nuts' calories. Did it have any effect on your insulin needs for your high nut meals? 25% less insulin used? I'm curious.
No, in fact the nuts seemed to make me need even more insulin than what would have been expected; though it is tough to say because I ate other things around the same time.
Hmm. Maybe you are like me and tend to take more nuts than you had planned. 0
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