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Ketogenic overfeeding n=1 experiment by Wittrock
Replies
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Day 19 - 147.2 lbs (started at 148.2)
I wouldn't be surprised if he lands right back at 148.2 in two days. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrngb7jX_s
His little guy is crawling - really cute.
He did tablespoons of oil (shooters) to get his calories in.... That just isn't much fun. I'd rather eat the macadamias than eat spoonfuls of the oil.
He's got something planned for tomorrow that he hinted at.
editted for typos.
Hells yea... it's easy to down a pound or 2 of nuts and have a ton of calories that way. Drinking straight oil is not appetizing. In fact, it is gross.
Yeah. He just is NOT a volume eater.
I can see that... it's hard to understand.1 -
I just watched day 20. This one was a little boring compared to the other 19. Poor guy is running out of things to talk about.
I didn't want to post it, and take away your job @nvmomketo
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And while i'm picking things apart-I have yet to see him weigh anything. Even if he weighs his food of camera, what about those avocados? 2 a day. Caloie dense. They're almost always on his plate in the in the shell which had weight but does not eat...
Lol, my first thought "WEIGH YOUR FOOD. DON'T USE CUPS AND TABLESPOONS." If that's how he's figuring his calories, he's probably eating twice what he thinks, and since he's losing, his TDEE is way higher.
I would love to see this with someone who's bothered to take proper data points before, during, and after.
It would have been nice if he weighed.... But you think he is probably eating more then? And still losing? I think he is still eating a fair bit more than normal just based on how he reacts to overfeeding - it isn't his norm. So he is eating more than 4K and still losing weight....
There may be a little bit of magic (for some people) in keto .
The magic with all diets would be adherence. The biggest issue, as we all know, is he never baselined his TDEE. I have used like 6 or 7 different calculators and they all under estimate my needs. A few of them, at very active, have me maintaining at 2800... which is the closest I have seen. My actual is 3000 and I am a lot less supplemented than him, and I suspect I workout a lot less than him with only about 10lbs more muscle and 25lbs more. I workout 5 or 6 hours a week, 4 of them being weight lifting. We are the same age, I have 4" more on him. Like I said previously, I really don't know any guys who workout and are as lean as him, that maintain at 2000 calories. And even the one that is close to him, if he works out, would put him over 2k for maintenance.
Also interesting enough, regarding the bold from ZYXST. There is a weird phenomenon in the gaining weight section, where people assume they are eating crazy amounts of calories (like over 3k). But once they start weighing their food, they find out they are like 400 calories or more less. It seems like they are in the few that actually under report their intake based on perception. It's also fascinated me because most studies would indicate the opposite.
Yet the more general neurosci/psych research suggests people generally perceive and believe in line with their going-in bias/beliefs/expectations. Maybe it's that 'most people' want to believe they're eating less than they really are, so under-report; but the (less common) 'hard gainers' believe the opposite as a starting point?3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I just watched day 20. This one was a little boring compared to the other 19. Poor guy is running out of things to talk about.
I didn't want to post it, and take away your job @nvmomketo
LOL. I'm on it!
Day 20 - 146.0 lbs (from 148.2 lbs at start)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-byp9-6BrVY
He did his second bod pod measurement today. It was almost the same. Twenty days ago he was 5.2% fat but now he is 5.0% fat. Its scale was almost the same as his at home too.
He had a grande heavy whipping cream latte with a couple butters in it from Starbucks today. He said it was 1600kcal... Is that right? Wow.
He also looked up some white chocolate coffee drink with 300 odd calories but it had over 50g of sugar in it - that's over 12 teaspoons of sugar. Wow again. I can just imagine the looks people would give you if you sat and spooned 12-13 teaspoons of sugar into one coffee. LOL2 -
Booo just watched his final video, 21 days went by too quickly
The last few seconds cracked me up!! :laugh: 0 -
Finale - Day 21 - 146.0 lbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zevz9LLS-kY
Well, he lost a little over 2 lbs. He started at 148.2 lbs. He went up to about 150 something and got as low as 145 something. He started lower than normal and went even lower.
Body fat went from 5.2 to 5.0%. He went from low to lower. Didn't add a lot of lean mass. He says he's not surprised by that because he was exercising less than normal anyways.
If it is just CICO, he should have gained a few pounds. If he normally eats 3000 Kcal per day he should have gained 6 pounds. If he ate 2000kcal like he claimed (I really doubt it was that low but it could be) he should have gained 12 lbs. He lost 2lbs...
I have a few thoughts on why he lost weight. My guess is a few factors influenced things.
He was adjusting to such high fat levels. His protein was similar to what he did before so that didn't effect things, but all that fat might have greased the system a bit.
Nuts. Someone brought up the fact that only 75% of nuts' calories are available for energy. That could have affected things.
Less exercise. When I stop or reduce exercise I lose weight. Probably my muscles releasing water weight. That could have affected things.
Low carbs and low insulin. I think that can affect things. I know it isn't the whole story but it is one factor.
He is just so metabolically healthy that he could handle the calories. This might have been a different experiment if it was done by a sedentary guy with 50 extra pounds on him.
LCHF magic... just a bit. If he was eating 4000 kcal with 60% carbs, I think he might have had different results
I liked the ending too. LOL2 -
I wish my experience had his kind of magic
The main reason I could not sustain LCHF was because the portions are tiny so I felt hungry all the time, overate on some days, and came out of it 4 pounds heavier (7 actually, but I dropped 3 from glycogen in the first two days so they don't count). If there was a magic way of eating that allowed me to eat as much as I wanted without gaining I would be all over it. He doesn't know how lucky he is to be able to eat however much he wants on a diet he enjoys without gaining weight. Makes me a little bit jealous.3 -
Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I wish my experience had his kind of magic
The main reason I could not sustain LCHF was because the portions are tiny so I felt hungry all the time, overate on some days, and came out of it 4 pounds heavier (7 actually, but I dropped 3 from glycogen in the first two days so they don't count). If there was a magic way of eating that allowed me to eat as much as I wanted without gaining I would be all over it. He doesn't know how lucky he is to be able to eat however much he wants on a diet he enjoys without gaining weight. Makes me a little bit jealous.
I seem to be one of the few people eating keto that mentions the same (in bold). I switched from ~40c/30/30 (weight loss and maintenance) to keto (maintenance) about 11 months ago. I quickly learned the portion sizes are TINY and I have to eat slowly or not grab seconds and let the satiation set in. I was accustomed to a plate heaping with vegetables and downsized to 400 calories about the size of a deck of cards.
4 or 5 bites.
Keto does satiate me and has helped reduce cravings but if I over eat, I gain.
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Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
Not eating like a bird - just at the lower end of his TDEE range. Probably would account for a difference of a couple of hundred calories. Remember, we don't really know how much he was eating to start with - and how much more than that he ended up eating.
Clearly he thought he was eating a lot more, but perception can be deceiving. Especially since he's not a big eater naturally.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
I vary on testing under different methods, but my 'educated guess' of 13% is mid-range. One of those methods (the method that is consistently way above all others) is also what I use most frequently. That usually puts me at 16%-17%, though the last 2 weeks have been high calorie for me and I've varied quite a bit from day to day on all things - weight and BF%. Other methods are less frequent, but there is always a 4% gap between this particular scale with BEI and the next highest method. All in all, I range from 11% - 17% (except the last 2 weeks, which I expect to turn around shortly) with most results in the range of 11% - 13%. It is possible that everything is wrong except the one BEI scale that is consistently high. That means other BEI devices and calipers are consistently low. Either way, I become more curious with time; so I'm strongly considering at least a Dexa in the next couple months (I have a day in April where I have time to make the trip). If I'm going, I may as well get RMR and VO2 max done as well.
ETA: Also, consider that even though I lose slowly, the most recent photo is my current profile photo from last week. Prior to that, my profile photo had been taken May 2016.0 -
Still, my point is that I also find it hard to believe. I have a legitimate reason to use the ballpark number of 13%. While I know it isn't perfect, one should expect by visial comparison that if Wittrock is 5%, I should be 20%-30%. I know I'm not that high. Aside from the possibility that my muscle mass is concentrated lower, I am really scratching my head.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
I vary on testing under different methods, but my 'educated guess' of 13% is mid-range. One of those methods (the method that is consistently way above all others) is also what I use most frequently. That usually puts me at 16%-17%, though the last 2 weeks have been high calorie for me and I've varied quite a bit from day to day on all things - weight and BF%. Other methods are less frequent, but there is always a 4% gap between this particular scale with BEI and the next highest method. All in all, I range from 11% - 17% (except the last 2 weeks, which I expect to turn around shortly) with most results in the range of 11% - 13%. It is possible that everything is wrong except the one BEI scale that is consistently high. That means other BEI devices and calipers are consistently low. Either way, I become more curious with time; so I'm strongly considering at least a Dexa in the next couple months (I have a day in April where I have time to make the trip). If I'm going, I may as well get RMR and VO2 max done as well.
ETA: Also, consider that even though I lose slowly, the most recent photo is my current profile photo from last week. Prior to that, my profile photo had been taken May 2016.
Midwestener, that big ol cat is crowding out your photo lol There's more of his body showing than yours, it's hard to tell anything from a half a head and 1/4 of an arm shot 2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
I vary on testing under different methods, but my 'educated guess' of 13% is mid-range. One of those methods (the method that is consistently way above all others) is also what I use most frequently. That usually puts me at 16%-17%, though the last 2 weeks have been high calorie for me and I've varied quite a bit from day to day on all things - weight and BF%. Other methods are less frequent, but there is always a 4% gap between this particular scale with BEI and the next highest method. All in all, I range from 11% - 17% (except the last 2 weeks, which I expect to turn around shortly) with most results in the range of 11% - 13%. It is possible that everything is wrong except the one BEI scale that is consistently high. That means other BEI devices and calipers are consistently low. Either way, I become more curious with time; so I'm strongly considering at least a Dexa in the next couple months (I have a day in April where I have time to make the trip). If I'm going, I may as well get RMR and VO2 max done as well.
ETA: Also, consider that even though I lose slowly, the most recent photo is my current profile photo from last week. Prior to that, my profile photo had been taken May 2016.
Midwestener, that big ol cat is crowding out your photo lol There's more of his body showing than yours, it's hard to tell anything from a half a head and 1/4 of an arm shot
I know - I've been wondering when he stole my cat for a photo!1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't forget he was sick. That complicates things.
Since he seemed to have so much trouble eating more, I have to wonder if he doesn't typically hang out at the low end of his TDEE anyway. Perhaps NEAT increased as more calories became available.
But is it possible to get a physique like his eating like a bird? I average 1700-2000 calories a day, surely to fuel his workouts he'd have to eat more than me. I'm around the same weight as him, and inch taller and obviously carry more body fat, like quadruple more!
From his videos, I don't get the idea that he works out that much. It might be useful if he posted more details about his daily workouts, though.
I'll have a peek around youtube, I'm pretty sure he's posted his workouts, I've never clicked on any though, so can't confirm for sure..
He varies his workouts but they are fairly high volume bodybuilding style workouts. I suspect at the vary least, they are 1.5 hours and he has already noted that he is very active (when he set up his MFP profile, he noted that). That would suggest, looking at most TDEE equations, that he workouts over 6 hours a week. This makes sense because when he says he works out, he generally notes "2 hours later" from when he stops shooting to reshoooting. Given potential travel time, I suspect 1.5 hours is about appropriate.
Another thing we haven't even taken into consider is whether or not Jason is even clean or enhance, which is something that most BB are. We do know he takes a crap ton of supplement, but most are standard and others are not really proven.
I'll admit I hadn't even heard of this guy until this thread, but now I'm somewhat intrigued because he and I are so close to the same in terms of height / weight / age and either I look so much more heavy because that approx. 13 lbs. of fat really covers a lot up, or maybe because I have more lower body muscles while his are upper body... or something else? If 1.5 hours per day is what he is doing, I'm surprised at how low it is. So now I'm trying to figure out why our stats are so close but we look so different yet.
It's making me really think about getting a Dexa sooner rather than later to get some more accurate information about myself. I've been trying to get a BodPod, RMR, and VO2 max for nearly a year at the nearest place (5 hr. drive) and have basically given up being able to schedule anything there. Another spot does Dexa, RMR, VO2 max, and a few other things and is about 6 hr. drive away. If it is even possible to schedule something in the next few months, I'm strongly thinking about going for it at that point rather than waiting until later this year when I (hopefully) reach my fat loss goal.
I suspect you are more different than him than you think, so it would definitely be interesting to see what a DEXA would say... and I am not trying to be rude. Because the few pictures I have seen of you, don't show a significant amount of definition. And at least according to an 11 point caliper test, I am 16% (as of 8 weeks ago) and I a lot of arm/leg/back definition and starting to get a 4 pack.
I vary on testing under different methods, but my 'educated guess' of 13% is mid-range. One of those methods (the method that is consistently way above all others) is also what I use most frequently. That usually puts me at 16%-17%, though the last 2 weeks have been high calorie for me and I've varied quite a bit from day to day on all things - weight and BF%. Other methods are less frequent, but there is always a 4% gap between this particular scale with BEI and the next highest method. All in all, I range from 11% - 17% (except the last 2 weeks, which I expect to turn around shortly) with most results in the range of 11% - 13%. It is possible that everything is wrong except the one BEI scale that is consistently high. That means other BEI devices and calipers are consistently low. Either way, I become more curious with time; so I'm strongly considering at least a Dexa in the next couple months (I have a day in April where I have time to make the trip). If I'm going, I may as well get RMR and VO2 max done as well.
ETA: Also, consider that even though I lose slowly, the most recent photo is my current profile photo from last week. Prior to that, my profile photo had been taken May 2016.
Midwestener, that big ol cat is crowding out your photo lol There's more of his body showing than yours, it's hard to tell anything from a half a head and 1/4 of an arm shot
The big cat used to be 10 lbs. heavier, and he loses faster than me despite weighing less in total. He's my diabetic kitty.3 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
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Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
That is absolutely gold! Reminds me of all the out of shape trainers that one comes across in most gyms.2 -
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Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
Ironically, Jason addresses that in one of his issues. Jimmy said its a journey and he is still working through it.
Also, arguments based on looks is a bit ridiculous. If it was valid people could argue the Lyle McDonald knows nothing about lifting... and we certainly know that isnt the case.. he is a genius.1 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
Ironically, Jason addresses that in one of his issues. Jimmy said its a journey and he is still working through it.
Also, arguments based on looks is a bit ridiculous. If it was valid people could argue the Lyle McDonald knows nothing about lifting... and we certainly know that isnt the case.. he is a genius.
I don't think this was posted to argue about looks.
It was posted as a counterpoint to the "magic" of keto.
It's quite obvious that if you overfeed on keto, you'll gain weight, and Jimmy Moore is proof of that.
I'm not down with fat shaming, but honestly, anyone coming away from what Jason did thinking that it proved anything is seriously fooling themselves.
If I did not have familial hypercholesterolemia, I'd be willing to gain weight and do a 21 day vegetarian keto challenge on myself. The problem would be that I'd have to eat foods that wouldn't be healthy for me to eat in order to do this and consume too much saturated fat and cholesterol (which isn't good for people who have FH). I'd baseline everything and document it properly, unlike Jason.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
Ironically, Jason addresses that in one of his issues. Jimmy said its a journey and he is still working through it.
Also, arguments based on looks is a bit ridiculous. If it was valid people could argue the Lyle McDonald knows nothing about lifting... and we certainly know that isnt the case.. he is a genius.
I don't think this was posted to argue about looks.
It was posted as a counterpoint to the "magic" of keto.
It's quite obvious that if you overfeed on keto, you'll gain weight, and Jimmy Moore is proof of that.
I'm not down with fat shaming, but honestly, anyone coming away from what Jason did thinking that it proved anything is seriously fooling themselves.
If I did not have familial hypercholesterolemia, I'd be willing to gain weight and do a 21 day vegetarian keto challenge on myself. The problem would be that I'd have to eat foods that wouldn't be healthy for me to eat in order to do this and consume too much saturated fat and cholesterol (which isn't good for people who have FH). I'd baseline everything and document it properly, unlike Jason.
Oh, I definitely get it. I way I say, that Jason's experiment is interesting but can't be used to prove anything. He didn't baseline caloric needs, so that is a big strike. He admits he is fairly active and there is question if he is even natty, considering a large portion of bodybuilders are not.0 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
I can't read the cartoon... What does it say?
Jimmy Moore is not a small man but he started at over 400 lbs and has maintained a loss of about 100 lbs, plus he has outlived close family members of similar size and shape. I believe that is why he considers his own journey a success story so far.1 -
Perhaps Jimmy Moore (a staunch keto evangelist) could document his n=1 experiment. It certainly looks like it's worked well for him (as he makes fun of low fat diets in the slide presentation):
I can't read the cartoon... What does it say?
Jimmy Moore is not a small man but he started at over 400 lbs and has maintained a loss of about 100 lbs, plus he has outlived close family members of similar size and shape. I believe that is why he considers his own journey a success story so far.
My low fat diet really works! The fat hangs lower every day.2
This discussion has been closed.
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