Is it healthy to completely cut out carbs from my diet?
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I'll be honest, I haven't read through all these posts so im sorry if i repeat something. Reducing carbs puts you into a state of Ketosyis, where you body burns fat instead of carbs as a source of fuel. I've actually just started my Keto diet today where I'm limiting myself to 100g of carbs a day for this week and then dropping down to around the 50-75g range. As long as you're getting enough calories and fats its actually not bad at all for you apart from when your body is adjusting to burning fats instead of carbs as fuel. You'll be sluggish and tired at first and then will start to gain energy when your body acclimatizes. I did a fair amount of research before starting my KETO.0
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This is an excellent podcast interview for anyone wondering if they should cut carbs or not.
Enjoy!
https://sigmanutrition.com/episode165/
SNR #165: Kevin Hall, PhD – Testing the Carbohydrate-Insulin Model & a Response to Gary Taubes
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^side note i'm 205 lbs 6'0 and at 7% BF and have been an athlete my entire life. I hope that doesn't sound like i'm bragging, I just wanted to let you know you can even vigorously exercise on a low carb diet. I'll post an update in 2 weeks if anyone is wondering how it affects me. Switching from carbs to fat also increases the mitochondrial count in the brain, which increases neural connectivity. There is also no "time-limit" to be on a KETO diet, it's another, different, healthy lifestyle.0
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Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.
Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.
Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets
Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.
Can you list off a week's worth of no carb meals? By "no carb" I mean no carb, not net carb, but absolutely zero carbs.
It's almost impossible to reach zero carb in the literal sense. There will be trace carbs no matter what.
I tried all animal as a challenge once, just out of curiosity if it would make me feel better. I lasted 2 or 3 weeks. I can't remember. I felt about the same. The only reason I stopped is because I don't enjoy eating meat as much as vegetables. I missed some veggies and nuts.
A usual day was eggs, bacon and coffee with whipped cream (I think I still used some coconut oil for the MCTs); tuna and tzaziki or meat and cheese for lunch; and meat and possibly cheese or eggs for dinner. My meat at dinner was usually beef or pork (we butcher our own) in the form of burgers, roasts, chops, sausages, but I sometimes had fish or shellfish, and very rarely had poultry. I think I had lamb curry once... I also had small servings of liver every week. I'm not a big liver fan but it's good for me so I'm trying to grow to enjoy it more. Trying.Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
As another responded, there is no need for supplementation. Fibre and phytonutrients are only needed to properly digest plants. It isn't needed for animal products. Vitamins and minerals are even more readily accessible in animal products than in plants so it's a non-issue there.
I did supplement with a few things but I have supplemented those for years. Nothing was changed when I went low carb, or "zero" carb.0 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »zachbonner_ wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
the macro carbs might not be needed but the micro vitamins sure are.
True. Thankfully the micros are also found in animal products so we can do fine with just animal products if we choose to do so.Lillymoo01 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
I don't think you will find any dietitian agreeing with you there. There is no way you can meet you essential micro nutritions without vegetables in your diet without the need for supplements. I stand corrected though. Some are crazy enough to believe that a carb free diet is healthy but they would be wrong. Still trying to work out how you can have a totally carb free diet at any rate.
You're probably right. Most dietitians would probably, at first glance, agree that plants are needed for good health... They'd be wrong though.
If you think about it, it isn't that outlandish. There are multiple cultures that eat no plant matter, or very very little of it: Inuit, Masai, Canadian First Nations plains tribes are some. Thousands of people living healthfully for generation after generation on an almost entirely carnivorous diet.
I know a handful of people who eat this way now. Just meats, seafood, dairy, eggs, some offal, and a bit of seasoning. They feel great. Some of them have eaten this way for years.
I'm not saying plants are bad. I like veggies, that's why I eat them. I am saying that they are NOT needed for a healthy diet.
I imagine this is the type of disbelief that vegetarians faced 100 or so years ago...
I did read this article awhile ago which indicates that these cultures had more carbs than first believed and that no culture has spent time in permanent ketosis. Who knows what to believe though.
https://chriskresser.com/7-things-everyone-should-know-about-low-carb-diets/
There are some good points in there. Those cultures were not in ketosis 100% of the time. TBH, most keto'ers are not in ketosis 100% of the time either. I know I'm not. I do try to stay in ketosis most of the time though because I feel better that way.
The one point from the article that I disagree with is that the high protein content of largely carnivorous diets kicked those people out of ketosis. They weren't eating high protein diets. They were still high fat diets. Those people are eating large mammals that are very fatty (bison, seals) so their protein was moderate. It is possible that the raw nature of the inuit diet provided enough carbs to prevent full time ketosis, but it isn't anything certain.
As a point of interest, one of the "carnivores" I know eats mainly beef. He figures his macros are about 75% fat and 25% protein. About. Carnivorous diets are not high in protein unless you choose high protein,/ lean meats like chicken or shellfish.0 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »
Actually, the Inuit and other traditional cultures would get plenty of vitamin C from raw meat, particularly liver and other organ meat (cooking destroys it). The Maasai would often drink raw cows blood accessed with a fleam in the jugular--I wonder if that provides vitamin C as well. Mmmmm....very interesting, but don't think I'll be doing this diet any time soon.
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French_Peasant wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »
Actually, the Inuit and other traditional cultures would get plenty of vitamin C from raw meat, particularly liver and other organ meat (cooking destroys it). The Maasai would often drink raw cows blood accessed with a fleam in the jugular--I wonder if that provides vitamin C as well. Mmmmm....very interesting, but don't think I'll be doing this diet any time soon.
That's all well and good, but I'm fairly certain @ccdragon wasn't talking about eating raw organ meat and drinking freshly tapped cow blood. Hence my comment.6 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »
C is in meats. The sailors of yesteryear had scurvy because their diet was flour and sugar based which increases your C requirements.1 -
There are lots of ways to survive. I could switch over to Soylent forever. Sounds nearly as miserable as trying to live entirely on meat.
Food can just be fuel, or it can also be a tool to enjoy being alive, social, and part of a culture.6 -
Eating organ meat occasionally (and not cooking the other meats to complete oblivion) will provide more than enough vitamin C for the body to thrive.
My typical meals include eggs, cheese, pork/beef/chicken and dairy fats - butter and heavy whipping cream. I do eat liver (both beef and chicken) but not very often as I am the only one in the family that will eat them. Yes, I get trace carbs from the dairy but my usual intake is under 5 grams a day. I have had mushrooms twice in the last 10 days because I like them when they have been cooked with a roast and they have soaked up all that meaty goodness, but other than that, I haven't eaten more than a couple of veggies in the last month (and no fruit at all).0 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »
C is in meats. The sailors of yesteryear had scurvy because their diet was flour and sugar based which increases your C requirements.
Organ meat tends to contain the most vitamin C, and I don't consider those to be "good cuts of meat".1 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »
C is in meats. The sailors of yesteryear had scurvy because their diet was flour and sugar based which increases your C requirements.
Organ meat tends to contain the most vitamin C, and I don't consider those to be "good cuts of meat".
I don't mean to make an argument for a no-carb diet, which I think is either insane or the product of an extreme environment in which the genetically unfit are swiftly and efficiently winnowed out (and even then, plenty of vitamin-c-containing carbs are eaten and preserved for the winter), but it's a fairly recent innovation in which offal has been treated with disdain; from foie gras to dirty rice, liver for example has been the crown jewel of French and Creole/Cajun cuisine. Also, dishes like tête de veau grace many a Michelin-starred menu.1 -
A quick read through some threads here on MFP (including this one) will quickly prove otherwise. Many, many people are woefully (and woo-fully) ignorant of even the most basic concepts of diet/nutrition and weight loss. I'd even go so far as to say the majority of people are.FarewellBlues wrote: »...In any case, people who always yell "CALORIES IN LESS THAN CALORIES OUT" make me chuckle ... it's like, duh. Almost everyone is well aware of that...
Yet many people have enormous success in losing weight (and maintaining) simply by counting calories and eating less than they expend. How do we explain that wizardry in the absence of the use of highly complex, nonlinear equations? Anecdotally, I've lost 60 pounds and never once had to break out my scientific calculator to solve for my biological processes - I chose calorie/macro goals based upon my goals and calculated daily needs, and adjusted as necessary based upon the results I was getting.FarewellBlues wrote: »...Also, so many things affect both sides of the energy balance equation. It's like, in physics, of course you have energy conservation. But calculating the amount of energy radiating from some system often involves solving highly complex, nonlinear equations. Biological processes are at least as complicated.
People have a tendency to make weight loss appear much more complicated than it really is. And usually those people have an agenda and/or something to sell.11 -
French_Peasant wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »
C is in meats. The sailors of yesteryear had scurvy because their diet was flour and sugar based which increases your C requirements.
Organ meat tends to contain the most vitamin C, and I don't consider those to be "good cuts of meat".
I don't mean to make an argument for a no-carb diet, which I think is either insane or the product of an extreme environment in which the genetically unfit are swiftly and efficiently winnowed out (and even then, plenty of vitamin-c-containing carbs are eaten and preserved for the winter), but it's a fairly recent innovation in which offal has been treated with disdain; from foie gras to dirty rice, liver for example has been the crown jewel of French and Creole/Cajun cuisine. Also, dishes like tête de veau grace many a Michelin-starred menu.
I'm well aware of the culinary uses of organ meat. But that doesn't mean I have consider them to be good cuts of meat. It's just a personal preference.3 -
Low carb, yes. Cut out overly processed foods, yes.
No carb, close to impossible to eliminate carbs totally.
Your body/brain needs carbs.0 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »CafeRacer808 wrote: »
C is in meats. The sailors of yesteryear had scurvy because their diet was flour and sugar based which increases your C requirements.
Organ meat tends to contain the most vitamin C, and I don't consider those to be "good cuts of meat".
I don't mean to make an argument for a no-carb diet, which I think is either insane or the product of an extreme environment in which the genetically unfit are swiftly and efficiently winnowed out (and even then, plenty of vitamin-c-containing carbs are eaten and preserved for the winter), but it's a fairly recent innovation in which offal has been treated with disdain; from foie gras to dirty rice, liver for example has been the crown jewel of French and Creole/Cajun cuisine. Also, dishes like tête de veau grace many a Michelin-starred menu.
I'm well aware of the culinary uses of organ meat. But that doesn't mean I have consider them to be good cuts of meat. It's just a personal preference.
I was under the impression that the discussion was on the theoretical mechanics of sustaining this particular diet; if I missed that we were discussing your personal preferences and their relationship to scurvy instead of the historical sweep of the elements contributing to the diet, please accept my apologies.1 -
I eat a lot of carbs. Like white bread, potatoes, white rice, pasta.
Would it be a problem to completely cut out carbs from my diet for 1-2 weeks?
With the exception of having ready break in the morning for breakfast. And just have a diet of fruit, veg and protein?
I've read here that starchy food can contribute to weight gain and I want to cut it out together with high sugar foods (like cakes and biscuits) for a couple of weeks.
Would this be a good idea?
Has anyone tried cutting down on carbs?
You are aware that fruit is almost completely carbs and a lot of veggies are high in carbs, right????4 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I was under the impression that the discussion was on the theoretical mechanics of sustaining this particular diet; if I missed that we were discussing your personal preferences and their relationship to scurvy instead of the historical sweep of the elements contributing to the diet, please accept my apologies.
You did, indeed, miss it and I accept your apology.3 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »Low carb, yes. Cut out overly processed foods, yes.
No carb, close to impossible to eliminate carbs totally.
Your body/brain needs carbs.
It doesn't, the body can convert from fat and protein.1 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I was under the impression that the discussion was on the theoretical mechanics of sustaining this particular diet; if I missed that we were discussing your personal preferences and their relationship to scurvy instead of the historical sweep of the elements contributing to the diet, please accept my apologies.
You did, indeed, miss it and I accept your apology.
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RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »Low carb, yes. Cut out overly processed foods, yes.
No carb, close to impossible to eliminate carbs totally.
Your body/brain needs carbs.
It doesn't, the body can convert from fat and protein.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/carbohydrates/art-20045705
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Yet many people have enormous success in losing weight (and maintaining) simply by counting calories and eating less than they expend. How do we explain that wizardry in the absence of the use of highly complex, nonlinear equations? Anecdotally, I've lost 60 pounds and never once had to break out my scientific calculator to solve for my biological processes - I chose calorie/macro goals based upon my goals and calculated daily needs, and adjusted as necessary based upon the results I was getting.
Kudos! 60 pounds is a great accomplishment. Glad you're in the portion of the population that this works well for. That bit where you adjusted as necessary based on results is great and really the only accurate (cheap, available) method of figuring out your expenditure. However, you had 60 pounds to lose! For those of us with 10-15 lbs to lose, it's really difficult to hone in on what that expenditure is, how much of a deficit to have, results are often masked by fluctuations in water and these can be significant particularly for women.
There plenty of studies where weight loss does not align well with that predicted from CICO. Of course, this is not a failure of the energy balance equation, but rather a failure of our estimations for calorie intake, expenditure, or both. Reduction of carbohydrates, for some of the population at least, seems to work well. Is this fundamentally because calorie expenditure is greater than calorie intake? OF COURSE.
Low-carb also has proven benefits which have nothing to do with weight loss, which is why I adopted it as a long term way of eating. I like eating fewer carbs, it makes me feel better. Isn't that what those in the "moderation" crowd tell people of MFP - eat what you want within your calorie limit, fuel your body appropriately and don't neglect health? If you do well and feel good with higher or whatever carbs, I wouldn't suggest you change that.1 -
breannemarie1993 wrote: »Cutting out starches and added sugars isn't a bad idea at all... they are foreign to the body and don't really belong there anyways. However, to cut out "carbs" in general is next to impossible. Fruits contain a ton of carbs and most veggies do as well. So if you're cutting out the bad, processed crap, I say go for it. You'll be miserable for the first two weeks because our bodies become very addicted to sugars but it won't kill you. If you have the motivation and will power, do it!
Yeah, no.
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I love my fruit and veggies, the more the better for me (admittedly i struggle with getting enough veggies, and too much fruit, I need to find a balance there), i just feel better overall when i get plenty of veggies in me. And to be totally honest i think organ meats would make a "reappearance" before i could even swallow it :sick: I just couldn't do it, no matter how healthy it is claimed to be...
My husband is the same. He spent months at a time living in the bush, and he ate some vile things, but he too draws the line at liver et al.1 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »Low carb, yes. Cut out overly processed foods, yes.
No carb, close to impossible to eliminate carbs totally.
Your body/brain needs carbs.
It doesn't, the body can convert from fat and protein.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/carbohydrates/art-20045705
I'm not sure what your wanting me to read on that link.
Carbs are not an essential macro. To be essential your body must need them and not be able to make them. The body can make glucose for the brain and the blood cells by converting the aminos in protein.1 -
So, for the average person, you are saying they do not need
Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes
Just lean protein, healthy fats are all you need.
I am serious about this, where do the fruits, vegetables come into a healthy diet?
Sorry that I am so ignorant. Correct me if I am wrong, but the UK is advocating for 10 servings of fruit and vegetables daily.0 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »So, for the average person, you are saying they do not need
Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes
Just lean protein, healthy fats are all you need.
I am serious about this, where do the fruits, vegetables come into a healthy diet?
Sorry that I am so ignorant. Correct me if I am wrong, but the UK is advocating for 10 servings of fruit and vegetables daily.
I personally eat a load of fruit, veg and carbs.
But to make a statement saying the brain needs them was incorrect. The body can make what it needs.1 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »So, for the average person, you are saying they do not need
Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes
Just lean protein, healthy fats are all you need.
I am serious about this, where do the fruits, vegetables come into a healthy diet?
Sorry that I am so ignorant. Correct me if I am wrong, but the UK is advocating for 10 servings of fruit and vegetables daily.
You are not ignorant nor are you wrong. What the folks have been arguing is that fruits/veggies/grains/etc are not ESSENTIAL for a healthy diet. The only two macros that are ESSENTIAL for a healthy diet are protein and fat. Note that the definition of ESSENTIAL is that it is a macro that the human body cannot manufacture on it's own, therefore it must come from outside the body. Carbs are not ESSENTIAL because the body can manufacture the small amounts of glucose that are actually required for proper function from the fats and protein consumed and use ketones for energy in place of glucose.
Yes, all of the carbs can be a part of a healthy diet, and lots of people include them in a healthy diet, but they are not ESSENTIAL to a healthy diet. In fact, there are people for whom certain carbs are poison - like Celiacs, and others for whom fiber is a major no-no - those with certain forms of IBS can have horrible symptoms from consuming even very small amounts of fiber.
The biggest problem with government guidelines is that they are always a 'one size fits all' approach and humans are very complex and very diversified and it is a rare occasion when the 'one size fits all' approach actually covers everyone.1 -
No it's not.0
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