Is it healthy to completely cut out carbs from my diet?
Replies
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So Ebony you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Actually, no, having vegetables every day is not essential. Or even required. You can be extremely healthy on fat and protein alone. Do some research.
Now that you have cut out vegetables you now have to cut out all dairy and all nuts because they too contain carbs. You have cut out pretty much all foods except meat to have a zero carb diet. Please show me scientific research stating that this is healthy or even comes close to having optimal health.
I was going to ask about that - don't cheese and tzatziki and whipped cream (having read that up-thread) have carbs? minimal, but carbs nonetheless?
About 50/50 with carbs verses protein for some dairy. The 50 grams of Greek yoghurt I had with breakfast this morning was 3 gms of carbs and 2.9 grams protein. My half a cup of milk had 6.2 grams of carbs and 4.1 grams of protein. Cream is about the same ratio. On the flip side cheese only has protein and butter has no protein or carbs.
So you can now have a diet consisting of meat, cheese and butter.
You can survive on a diet free of fruit and vegetables and all other food sources except what comes from animals but you could not be close to optimum health and there is no way you would be reaching your daily nutritional requirements. I know you can get some vitamin C from raw meat but there is no way you would get enough to meet your daily requirements.
I can understand a low carb diet and its benefits but a diet that removes the majority of food groups so you can be nearly carb free is just plain crazy and anyone that thinks this is a way to go needs a serious talk with a dietitian.
These are assumptions. You really can get enough nutrients if if you eat quality animal products. People are doing it, and many people did it in the past.
Steffanson (sp?) lived with Inuit for years and when he returned the medical community did not want to believe the Inuit were healthy on a mainly carnivorous diet. To prove his point he lived in a hospital ward for months so they could supervise him, and his health, on an Inuit diet. He eventually proved his point.
He wrote The Fat of the Land about his experiences.
Look into it a bit deeper and you come across articles like this which show that the Inuits diet is not as low carb as believed and their rates of heart disease are actually higher than reported.
The Inuit
Well known to consume significant amounts of whale and seal meat frequently, the Inuit are commonly construed to be heart disease-free. Is this another outlier to much of the other observational research finding low processed food, low animal, high plant diets to be associated with low heart disease death rates?
Some small studies do show that the Inuit eat a relatively lower carbohydrate diet. One study in Greenland in 1976[4] found they consumed about 37% of calories from carbohydrate. Other surveys of native populations found them to consume anywhere from 8 to 53% carbohydrate, the 53% number being noted in populations in the late 1930s. 53%, by the way, is more than was found to be consumed in Denmark in 1972(cited in 4). Certainly significant amounts of bread and sugar were consumed as long ago as 40-50 years ago, at least as documented by trading post activity[4].
What about their risk of heart disease? It turns out to be a myth so often repeated it just became an unsupported truth. A 2003 paper[5] published by a highly experienced, highly published scientist at the National Institute of Public Health in Greenland, written with his colleagues from Canada, documents many autopsy studies and clinical observations and studies proving that heart disease existed among the Inuit. In fact, in 1940 the “father of epidemiology” in Greenland, Bertelsen, noted heart disease to be quite common, perhaps even more interesting given the young age of the population. He based this on clinical experience and medical officer reports going back for many decades(cited in 5). All told, the 2003 paper found “the hypothesis that mortality from ischemic heart disease is low among the Inuit compared with western populations insufficiently founded.” Further, “…a general statement that mortality from cardiovascular disease is high among the Inuit seems more warranted than the opposite.”[5]
In addition, it has been found that bone health among the Inuit was quite bad. A 1974 study[6] found, “Aging bone loss, which occurs in many populations, has an earlier onset and greater intensity in the Eskimos. Nutrition factors of high protein, high nitrogen, high phosphorus, and low calcium intakes may be implicated.”
http://nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-inuit-high-protein-diets-a-closer-look/
It is possible, but this article is about the Inuit after they started eating western carbs: bread and sugar. People like Steffanson lived with the inuit and adopted their lifestyle. He didn't study them after they adopted our lifestyle.
If you have ever been to Canada's arctic, you will know that the people there could not have been eating many plants. There just isn't much up there. I would guess that they would sometimes be at the higher end up a low carb diet if they came across some berries or roots they wanted to eat, but the article suggests the inuit eat up to 53% carbs - that is goofy. There is no way that could happen unless they were eating imported western foods. Sine it was only 40-50 years ago that they cited that stat, western food influence is probable.
Looking at rates of heart disease after their dietary change will just show how the introduction of western foods affected them. The Inuit do not do well with higher carbs. They appear to do worse with it than most people.
You'll need to find research, like Steffanson's or earlier, that goes back to before they ate western food to try to prove their ancestoral diet resulted in poor health. From the accounts of first contact that I have seen, Canada's First Nations peoples were robust, tall, long lived and healthy.
My point in this is not that carbs are bad. Veggies and some fruit seem to be quite healthful for the majority. My point is that you don't NEED plants to live healthfully. Just like vegetarians don't NEED meat to live healthfully. I'm NOT saying people SHOULD stop eating plants but that it can be a dietary option. People have done it in their ancesteral diets (are there any vegetarian ancestoral diets?) and people are still doing it today.
The idea of eating no "wholesome fruits and veggies" just seems to get some backlash still... At least the old myth that people need grains to live is finally dying down.1 -
I would say people have been vegetarian/vegan in India for a few thousand years. Does that qualify as "ancestral"?
Eating no wholesome fruits and veggies gets backlash because, generally, the average North American would be more healthy if they ate more fruits and veggies (and less crap).1 -
Well...as others have said fruits and vegetables are carbs. Carbs are NECESSARY NUTRITIONAL ELEMENTS.
Cutting them completely out is a bad idea, just as it would to get rid of all fiber or Vitamin C in your diet.
The tricky thing about the human diet is that we are omnivores. We aren't koalas or panda bears in which you just give them eucalyptis or bamboo and that's that. Or even a dog in which one gets a good quality dog food and you're done.
Humans need a wide arrangement of food, nutritionally speaking. But the benefit was our adaptability. You get healthy diets in Inuit who eat a heavily meat based diet, or strict vegetarians in India. But all need carb sources of some kind.
The other questions is unless you had a specific dietary issue: WHY DO YOU WANT TO BAN A VARIETY OF FOOD? The only answer seems to be "it's hard". But unless you learn, you won't eat healthily. Yeah, pain in the neck but you'll be the better for it.
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annacole94 wrote: »I would say people have been vegetarian/vegan in India for a few thousand years. Does that qualify as "ancestral"?
Eating no wholesome fruits and veggies gets backlash because, generally, the average North American would be more healthy if they ate more fruits and veggies (and less crap).
India could work if we look at their diet from before western contact... That's quite a while back though.
I think the key dietary change for better health could be "less crap". The crap should be eliminated and replaced with something, and the something could be fruits and veggies; it could also be replaced with animal products.1 -
I think most people wouldn't feel better on zero carbs. Our bodies can survive, but it's not generally going to be optimal to live on exclusively animal products. Plus the expense of such a diet. Plus the environmental impact. Plus the idea of population level health advice.annacole94 wrote: »I would say people have been vegetarian/vegan in India for a few thousand years. Does that qualify as "ancestral"?
Eating no wholesome fruits and veggies gets backlash because, generally, the average North American would be more healthy if they ate more fruits and veggies (and less crap).
India could work if we look at their diet from before western contact... That's quite a while back though.
I think the key dietary change for better health could be "less crap". The crap should be eliminated and replaced with something, and the something could be fruits and veggies; it could also be replaced with animal products.
I get what you're saying. I will concede that some humans can have a healthy diet of whale blubber and polar bear. But I don't think it's good advice to give to anyone to do that today, unless they are in fact Inuit and living in that culture. Food is more than fuel.5 -
Is it healthy to completely cut out carbs from my diet?
It's neither healthy nor unhealthy - depends how you do it - and might depend on your body makeup. It does require much more effort to tune the food balance, it's not just a jump in and eat less carbs for 2 weeks [that would be a bad experience]. There can be unwelcome side effects if not done correctly.
My scale tells me it's the right thing for me - lowest weight in 30 years [still more to lose]. My blood tests are totally normal,1 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.1
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Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.
Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.
Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets
Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.
Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.
I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.1 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
Jason Fung is about as far from "proof" as a children's story book...15 -
This thread delivers big style. There is nothing better than a single digit posting, new user coming onto MFP to tell us all where we have been going wrong all these years. Bookmarked!7
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Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
My n=1 renders this bolded statement incorrect; 40+ lbs lost all while eating my fair share of carbs, sugar, fruits and vegetables, and grazing like a caribou the entire day. Normally people in the sciences, or with a degree that has some science-type stuff in it, know better than to claim that something is absolutely false, as it instantly puts a question mark on their credibility, if not destroying it outright.8 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
And here we go.....
FYI: I lost around 50lbs by doing that whole calorie in vs calorie out thing. I must be a special snowflake, or something
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Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.
Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.
Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets
Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.
Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.
I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.
So? I'd be much more interested in your real life experience with weight management. How many pounds have you lost? How many years have you been successfully maintaining your loss?
eta: my sister is an RN and is also obese and a smoker. Being a medical professional doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, when it comes to weight management and nutrition topics.3 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.
Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.
Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets
Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.
Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.
I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.
As someone in the medical profession you would seriously think we are at optimum health by eliminating all fruit, vegetables, grains, nuts and pretty much all dairy living purely on animal products and you claim that your cardiologist and colleagues agree? I highly doubt that. Carbs are not required so I guess in that aspect you are correct. We can live without them but there is a vast difference between living and living to optimum health. I get a LOW carb diet but a ZERO carb diet is nothing we should be striving for.
You can be on anyndiet imaginable but if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you consume you will l9se weight. This isn't bad advise from the 70's but fact.5 -
ok, just for giggles, @Lillymoo01 (and just to clarify this conversation), please define 'optimum health' for us.1
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ok, just for giggles, @Lillymoo01 (and just to clarify this conversation), please define 'optimum health' for us.
Where you are at your best physically and emotionally without being sick or rundown. Without adequate nutrition including all the required micro nutrients I can not see how this is even close to possible. Why you would get giggles from this is beyond me.0 -
lcrivas4jc wrote: »It's impossible to completely cut out carbs. That said, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, unlike protein and fat. Check out the ketogenic lifestyle. Don't believe conventional medical advice about what a healthy diet consists of. Most doctors have less than eight hours of nutritional instruction! Also check out Ancel Keys and his completely flawed study (he blatantly lied and skewed the data) back in the 50s, which our government bought hook and sinker and has been shoving down our throats ever since (https://authoritynutrition.com/modern-nutrition-policy-lies-bad-science/). There used to be a really good video about Ancel Keys on Youtube but I have been unable to find it for several months. Ever since his "findings" were published, we've been told to cut the fat and up our consumption of whole grains.
The current American food pyramid should be turned upside down with the grains section deleted. Of course you can lose weight on a lowfat diet but it won't last long and it definitely won't make you healthy. The other thing about the keto lifestyle is that food cravings are dramatically diminished!
I've been eating 25-30 carbs per day for a while and my blood sugars (previously in the low 200s almost immediately went to an average of 80-90.
Totally agree with you on the Ancel keys thing! There are SO many people that are uneducated about this fact. I teach this to my clients (I am a personal trainer). Question, do you exercise regularly? I have thought about trying the ketogenesis diet just to see if it could work for me to help cut body fat but I exercise alot and sweat alot so Im afraid to go that low with carbs.0 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Hello_its_Dan wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.
Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.
Terrible advice and one to avoid.
Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber
What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!
Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.
Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.
Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets
Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.
Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.
I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.
As someone in the medical profession you would seriously think we are at optimum health by eliminating all fruit, vegetables, grains, nuts and pretty much all dairy living purely on animal products and you claim that your cardiologist and colleagues agree? I highly doubt that. Carbs are not required so I guess in that aspect you are correct. We can live without them but there is a vast difference between living and living to optimum health. I get a LOW carb diet but a ZERO carb diet is nothing we should be striving for.
You can be on anyndiet imaginable but if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you consume you will l9se weight. This isn't bad advise from the 70's but fact.
You. I like you.
Most of the people who come to MFP inquiring about giving up all carbs are speaking erroneously about "grains" or "junk food" or "starches" and they were ignorant to begin with that carbohydrates are a part of many nutrient dense foods like fruits and vegetables, dairy, etc. The conversation gets off track in a very predictable way...
A poster says" "I'm thinking of giving up all carbs, is it possible and can it be healthy?"
Many posters: "Why do you think that is necessary? Do you have a medical reason to give up carbs? Do you really mean ZERO carbs or do you mean just giving up starchy foods, grains, sugary 'junk' foods? Do you realize that fruits and vegetables contain carbs as their primary macro nutrient"
Other posters: "I feel great on LCHF! I've finally been able to lose weight and keep it off and it helped me with XYZ medical condition"
Couple of posters "Carbs are ESSENTIAL for health! Of course it isn't healthy to eat nothing but meat and oil!"
Hard core defenders of LC: "WELL.... technically they aren't necessary. Look at the Innuits! You can get all the nutrients you need from animal products (maybe not explicitly stating that it would involve eating rare/raw meat and organ meats"
The conversation is the same, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Right down to the fact that the OP almost never makes another appearance, either put off by the fighting, or embarrassed that they didn't realize that carbs are part of fruits and veggies, or they are frightened by the concept of eating organ meat!
The fact of the matter remains, that while it may be possible to achieve adequate levels of nutrition from nothing but animal products and supplements, it is just not necessary for anyone to eat that way, nor is it realistic for most people to commit that heavily to such an extreme diet. I don't understand, and this is a sincere question for those LCHF proponents who are stating that carbs are not required... do you eat a zero carb diet? Do you tell your doctor that you eat this way? What is their reaction? Is your lifestyle one that you really enjoy? When you go to dinner at a restaurant, or a friend's house - do you really eat nothing but meat? How do people in your life respond to that? Do you have children? Do you encourage them to eat carbs in the form of grains, dairy, fruits and veggies? If not, what do their pediatricians think?
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3rdof7sisters wrote: »So, for the average person, you are saying they do not need
Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes
Just lean protein, healthy fats are all you need.
I am serious about this, where do the fruits, vegetables come into a healthy diet?
Sorry that I am so ignorant. Correct me if I am wrong, but the UK is advocating for 10 servings of fruit and vegetables daily.
You are not ignorant nor are you wrong. What the folks have been arguing is that fruits/veggies/grains/etc are not ESSENTIAL for a healthy diet. The only two macros that are ESSENTIAL for a healthy diet are protein and fat. Note that the definition of ESSENTIAL is that it is a macro that the human body cannot manufacture on it's own, therefore it must come from outside the body. Carbs are not ESSENTIAL because the body can manufacture the small amounts of glucose that are actually required for proper function from the fats and protein consumed and use ketones for energy in place of glucose.
Yes, all of the carbs can be a part of a healthy diet, and lots of people include them in a healthy diet, but they are not ESSENTIAL to a healthy diet. In fact, there are people for whom certain carbs are poison - like Celiacs, and others for whom fiber is a major no-no - those with certain forms of IBS can have horrible symptoms from consuming even very small amounts of fiber.
The biggest problem with government guidelines is that they are always a 'one size fits all' approach and humans are very complex and very diversified and it is a rare occasion when the 'one size fits all' approach actually covers everyone.
Carbs aren't poison to celiacs.... gluten is. They can still have a very high carb diet or even a vegan diet and be celiac. And then there are healthy issues that highly benefit from whole grains and high fiber, such as diverticulitis.
It's true, that carbs are non essential nutrients, but it doesn't make them optimal. Good luck building muscle without carbs. Even the best keto diets (CKD/TKD) diets will not produce the same results as a well designed program with carbs, especially in an energy deficit.
Proof that carbs can be beneficial: Blue zones.6 -
ok, just for giggles, @Lillymoo01 (and just to clarify this conversation), please define 'optimum health' for us.
Not littlymoo01 but I'll play
-healthy weight for your stats
-no medical conditions/no need to take prescriptions
-healthy range waist circumference
-consistent good blood work panels (I know there's debate about what that actually looks like, but I go by what my doctor recommends as I respect and trust his judgment)
-normal blood pressure
-good mental health
-no detrimental habits like smoking, excessive alcohol consumption etc
And I personally think you can hit all of these by eating all sorts of macros ratios combinations. You can also be doing everything 'right' and still not be in optimal health due to genetics/medical conditions that are out of your control etc.
One thing I've learned over the past few years is to not take things so seriously. I eat how I like, am successfully managing my weight, have solid feedback from my doctor and I enjoy life. That's good enough for me 4 -
I will also note, that you can have optimal health regardless of the lifestyle that you live. But I will also say this, if you have to supplement, your diet is not optimal (unless you a medical condition that would make it impossible through diet alone, like POTS).5
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Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
Jason Fung is about as far from "proof" as a children's story book...
One might argue that Dr. Seuss is more credible.11 -
Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
You don't think that might help because it's reducing your calories in? It's calories in vs calories out. It works for everyone. It's not a code, it's not a secret, some guy didn't just discover the key to weight loss that no one knew.3 -
I eat a lot of carbs. Like white bread, potatoes, white rice, pasta.
Would it be a problem to completely cut out carbs from my diet for 1-2 weeks?
With the exception of having ready break in the morning for breakfast. And just have a diet of fruit, veg and protein?
I've read here that starchy food can contribute to weight gain and I want to cut it out together with high sugar foods (like cakes and biscuits) for a couple of weeks.
Would this be a good idea?
Has anyone tried cutting down on carbs?
The OP specified cutting out starchy stuff (not fruits & veggies). It's definitely not a problem (unless you are coming in under calorie goal and need the filler calories). If you are eating plenty of vegetables/fruit, you'll be getting your carbs and fiber. Depending on your goal calories, it can be quite difficult or impossible to meet protein and other requirements without going over on calories unless you do cut down on the starchy stuff.1 -
A rose by any other name..............
Call it what you will, but however you lose, whatever plan you choose, whether or not you cut carbs, or any other food group, it always, always, always comes down to eating less calories than you are burning for weight loss.extra_medium wrote: »Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
You don't think that might help because it's reducing your calories in? It's calories in vs calories out. It works for everyone. It's not a code, it's not a secret, some guy didn't just discover the key to weight loss that no one knew.
^^^This is fact. It is not a secret. Many factors can go into how each of us loses weight, but it is always because we are eating less than our body burns.
It is very interesting how many experts there are on MFP. Ever wonder how anyone became overweight and out of shape?
2 -
Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.
go ahead and eat 1000 calories over your maintenance level and report back and tell us it is till not about calories in vs out..6 -
Here's the thing though...for all of you that think its only about calories serious question... Why is it that you can take one person on a 1500 calorie diet (hypothetically speaking) eating say 30% calories from carbs and another person on 1500 calories (same calories) and eating say 60% calories from carbs and the person eating 1500 calories eating 30% carbs loses more fat/weight than the person eating calories with 60% carbs. Something has to be said about this....What in your opinion is the answer if it is only about calories? Would you agree that every person is different? Thoughts?0
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dawnflowers104 wrote: »Here's the thing though...for all of you that think its only about calories serious question... Why is it that you can take one person on a 1500 calorie diet (hypothetically speaking) eating say 30% calories from carbs and another person on 1500 calories (same calories) and eating say 60% calories from carbs and the person eating 1500 calories eating 30% carbs loses more fat/weight than the person eating calories with 60% carbs. Something has to be said about this....What in your opinion is the answer if it is only about calories? Would you agree that every person is different? Thoughts?
they dont...
in the short term a low carber loses more because water weight but over time (six months) they lose about the same..
4 -
I eat a lot of carbs. Like white bread, potatoes, white rice, pasta.
Would it be a problem to completely cut out carbs from my diet for 1-2 weeks?
With the exception of having ready break in the morning for breakfast. And just have a diet of fruit, veg and protein?
I've read here that starchy food can contribute to weight gain and I want to cut it out together with high sugar foods (like cakes and biscuits) for a couple of weeks.
Would this be a good idea?
Has anyone tried cutting down on carbs?
I know plenty of people that have lost weight buy cutting out carbs. But since carbs were a major player in their diet, it's logical that they lost weight. Maybe you should do more research on it?0
This discussion has been closed.
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