March 2017 Running Challenge
Replies
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@breakingred welcome! Just a heads up...keep watching this space and sometime on the last day of the month @Stoshew71 will post the link to the April thread. So if you come back in April and nobody's here...that's where we went.
There's still time to fit in a few more runs this month if you want to post a goal for the rest of March.
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01/03 3.52 miles
02/03 5.02 miles
04/03 4.5 miles
08/03 5.16 miles
09/03 3.54 miles
10/03 3.51 miles
12/03 3.01 miles
14/03 3.51 miles
15/03 4.02 miles
20/03 3.82 miles
21/03 4.04 miles
23/03 4.51 miles
24/03 4.41 miles
25/03 3.75 miles
27/03 3.77 miles
28/03 3.76 miles
Those shoes look like they'd be lots of fun but dangerous!
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lporter229 wrote: »I have been reading up on the Boston course, and, although I am feeling much better about where I am now vs. a month ago, I am concerned about the course. The Boston course is notoriously challenging due tho the placement of the hills. I must say, that on paper it does not look too bad, but I will not doubt the expert opinion that it's a pretty rough one.
I have never really had an issue with hills. I train with hills (both targeted hill workouts and generally hilly terrain). Most of my long runs include a fair amount of elevation. Of the 4 marathons I have run, two were really flat and the Flying Pig (which I have run twice) is pretty hilly, but most of the elevation is on the front half of the course, so I have never had to deal with a marathon with hills at the back end of the course. And especially not when nursing an injury.
I was reading an article on the Runner's World website yesterday about training specifically for Boston, and it recommended a lot of focused hill training. Again, I don't generally worry about hills, but with the way my training has gone over the last 6 weeks (waaay under trained due to my hamstring), I have not done anything to solidify my ability to conquer the hills late in the race. I am contemplating doing some targeted hill repeats at lunch today and I am wondering if this is a good idea. I am not sure if the risk outweighs the reward. As the owner of our local running store said to me this weekend: Better to arrive under trained than over injured.
I was hoping maybe some of you could weigh in with your opinions (particularly @MobyCarp or anyone else who has run the course before)? Should I be doing anything to test my tired legs on hills for the late part of the race, or am I better off just nursing them and seeing what I am in for on race day? FWIW, I still have not decided on a race strategy. A lot of that hinges on how my 20 mile run goes this weekend. My last two longish runs have been with friends, so I have not really tested myself yet. This will be my marathon simulator run and I plan to do it solo.
@lporter229 - To some extent, hills are in the eye of the beholder. Before my first Boston, I talked to everyone I could find who had run it. That's quite a few people in the Rochester running community. Perceptions of Heartbreak Hill and Newton were all over the map; the more experienced marathoners who had run Boston several times and were familiar with how I ran some local hilly races (Flower City Half, Spring Forward 15K, new Rochester Half course) said I wouldn't have any problem if I didn't go out too fast.
It turned out I did go out too fast, but it didn't bite me hard until I got past the hills. I knew I was too tired by mile 14, but I ran the hills of Newton and Heartbreak, mostly passing other runners. Some of them were walking. That felt great, considering they were mostly ahead of me because they were seeded ahead of me, i.e. they had run faster marathons than I had.
Where I had problems was the impact of all the downhill running on my legs. As a local race director and former professional endurance runner/duathlete said of one of his hilly courses, "The uphill segments may break the spirits of some newbies, but it's the downhill segments that turn your legs into ground beef." Late in Boston 2016, I noticed every little incline and decline on Commonwealth Avenue. The inclines were easier to run than the declines were.
I'm not sure I've learned all the correct lessons from running Boston last year, but here's what I think I've learned that will apply to you: Getting your legs healthy is far more important that running more hills in the last 3 weeks before Patriots' Day. Whatever you've done in training so far is done. Now is the time to back off, run just about enough to keep an edge, and heal up all the bumps, bruises, and sore spots you don't notice for all the endorphins. To the extent you have hurts that you *do* notice, getting them better is a top priority. In other words, I concur with the owner of your local running store.
Hill repeats? If you perceive any risk, don't do them. I did zero hill repeats training last year, and zero this year. I did run a lot of hills both training cycles. I paid particular attention to my form flowing down the steep hills smoothly with minimal impact to my legs. Based on my experience, that's a more important thing than training more uphill running. Then again, I'm noted as being one of the stronger uphill runners locally. I've had races where I pass guys going uphill and they pass me going downhill or on the flat.
And if you do end up having to walk part of the Newton hills, that's not the end of the world. If you can manage even a slow jog on Hereford Street and Boylston Street, nobody in Scream Tunnel is going to care that you were walking in Newton, just as they didn't care that I was walking on Commonwealth Avenue last year. You will be a rock star to the locals for finishing and getting that medal.
49 weeks after my first Boston, I come back to what my first pace leader and mentor told me in advance: The race starts at mile 16. Take the early part easy enough, and you'll be fine on the hills.9 -
3/28 - (5.5mi) 4mi hard effort around 90% I'd say. (7:33/mi) splits: 8:14, 7:06, 7:47, 7:07 Then 1.5mi cooldown @8:44/mi. Mtns tonight stay tuned! ** 42.9mi remain **
3/22 - (10.1mi) 5k TM hill tempo @ 3%inc, 7mi E
3/24 - (6mi) Slow/easy + heat tolerance, 8:40/mi
3/25 - (10mi) 3,074ft vert, 14:34/mi
3/26 - (13.6mi) LSD 8:49/mi
3/27 - (7.2mi) 2,162ft vert, 14:41/mi
3/28 - (5.5mi) 4mi @ 7:33, 1.5mi C @ 8:44
Total: 107.1/150mi
@KatieJane83 They're not that bad. Especially with these views of Vegas! Here's one from yesterday.
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Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!0
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I find Strava estimates calorie burn about 20% too high.jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!3 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I find Strava estimates calorie burn about 20% too high.jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!
Same2 -
Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.1 -
@jessicalferrara I agree with the others, Strava is at least 20% too high for running in my estimate, sometimes it even gives me 30% more than I would expect - depending on the amount of hills and the heart rate.
Usually, I use a really simple formula that works surprisingly well:
- "calories burned = (body weight in kg) * (running distance in km)"
If you use pound and miles, you get to similar results using (still not too complicated)
- "calories burned = 0.75 * (weight in pounds) * (running distance in miles)"3 -
@mobycarp great advice for @lporter229 it was interesting to read your take on hills.0
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@jessicalferrara I've had Strave claim DOUBLE the number of calories that Garmin on some runs. Strava isn't always double, but it is always higher than Garmin.
Garmin, OTOH, is usually wrong too, I think. I have the Forerunner 220 and on some of my long runs, it will give me 140 to 150 calories per mile in the earlier parts of the run, but with nearly identical pace, heart rate, and elevation, I'll only get credit for 85 to 90 calories per mile later in the run. I doubt my economy improves that much. If i don't use my HR monitor I'll get credit for 160 to 165 calories per mile. Hardly an exact science, apparently.
What I do now is to use this calculator to calculate my gross calorie burn:
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/activity-based-calorie-burn-calculator.aspx
Then take that result and plug it into this calculator to figure out the net calorie burn:
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn-conversion-calculator.shtml
Based on my weight I should get getting credit for 125 calories/mile.
There are a variety of calculators out there, giving me anywhere from 125 to 150 calories per mile. I trust this particular one because it's "based on MET (Metabolic Equivalent) data for physical activities from "The Compendium of Physical Activities Tracking Guide" by B. E. Ainsworth", which I take ask the authoritative source for this stuff.
The actual equations they use are on those two sites if you're interested in the nitty gritty.
Regardless of which source or calculator you use, if...after 4 weeks...you're not seeing the weight loss/gain/maintenance you think you should be, you can tweak the numbers. If I use 125 calories per mile but my weight is not going down like I'd like, I can do one of two things. Lower my calorie credit to 120 calories per pound, or review how I'm calculating my calorie intake and make sure I'm weighing everything, adding everything up, and not taking unlogged snacks (guilty).
Sorry for the long answer. I was going to try to be brief but my fingers just kept going.3 -
Thanks @MobyCarp . I knew I could count on you for a detailed and insightful perspective. Your post kind of solidifies what I already suspected. Like you, I am a pretty strong uphill runner, but I suffer on the downhills. My pace tends to be close to even running both up and down the same hill. Everything I have read has made me more concerned with the downhill running.
So, now I am wondering if maybe I should not scale back my 20 mile run this weekend. Physically, I feel like my legs are about 60-75%. My pace has naturally slowed by about 20-30 seconds per mile and I am feeling a bit more prone to fatigue than normal.
My training had been progressing fairly normally up to the middle of February, when I was hitting around 40-45 miles per week. I do not run crazy high mileage like some of you. My highest ever week was 59 miles and my highest mileage month was 205, both while training for my qualifier race in 2015. From October 2015-October 2016, my main focus was a faster half marathon. My weekly average was in the mid to high 30s, with long runs of 10-16 miles with two fairly intense targeted speed sessions. I started thinking toward Boston at the beginning of January. My goal at that point was to just run a sub 4 and make it as comfortable as possible with my training, and, of course, to remain injury free. I pretty much ditched most of my speed work and focused on ramping up my miles. Most of these miles were easy pace on rolling hilly terrain. The hamstring started to nag after a particularly hard effort 10K at the end of January (in hindsight, I was not prepared to run this at the pace I did). After my first 20 miler on Feb 11, I could no longer ignore the hamstring issue, so I backed off. I had two full weeks of rest while I entered into PT. While in treatment, I slowly ramped my mileage back up. Since Feb 11, my double digit runs have been one each of 10, 12 and 16 miles. My 16 miles was last weekend. It was harder than it should have been, but it did not kill me.
So my dilemma is for my long run this weekend. Part of me feels like I need to have another 20 miler in the bank for the mental aspect of it all. The other part of me feels like my body would benefit more from the rest. Do you have any opinion on this? I really value your input!0 -
@lporter229 what about running your 20 miles but at a slower pace than planned? That worked for me last weekend and I rather enjoyed allowing myself to be slower. In my case I went from an expected 9:30 to 10:30 pace.
Just a thought.3 -
@7Lenny7-I like that idea. I may be inclined to try it, but I will be going in with the knowledge that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to holding back on pace on a long run. I can hold back okay at the beginning, but when I get to that point when i just want to get done, I automatically speed up. Your suggestion would be good practice for race day!0
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lporter229 wrote: »@7Lenny7-I like that idea. I may be inclined to try it, but I will be going in with the knowledge that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to holding back on pace on a long run. I can hold back okay at the beginning, but when I get to that point when i just want to get done, I automatically speed up. Your suggestion would be good practice for race day!
I should have added, one thing I did on the run in question was to park my truck in the middle of the route (see below), which was essentially three out & backs (with spurs) and I was never more than 3.5 miles from my truck. Before the run I defined the conditions for which I would end the run. My original training plan was 30 miles, I felt the turn-around twinge at 21 miles (and turned around then further slowing my pace), and by the time I got back I had 23 miles.
Slower pace
Define the conditions for which you'll end the run
Stick to it
Have an exit strategy - you don't want to be 10 miles away and get that pain that tells you to quit.
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3/1 - 3.5 mi.
3/2 - 4.0 mi.
3/3 - 4.2 mi.
3/4 - 4.0 mi.
3/5 - 3.5 mi.
3/6 - 3.1 mi.
3/7 - 3.5 mi.
3/8 - 3.2 mi.
3/9 - rest
3/10 - 3.1 mi.
3/11 - 3.0 mi.
3/12 - 4.1 mi.
3/13 - 4.0 mi.
3/14 - 4.7 mi.
3/15 - 4.1 mi.
3/16 - rest
3/17 - 3.2 mi.
3/18 - 4.1 mi.
3/19 - 4.1 mi.
3/20 - 4.0 mi.
3/21 - rest
3/22 - 5.0 mi.
3/23 - 4.5 mi.
3/24 - crazy day...no time.
3/25 - 6.0 mi.
3/26 - 5.1 mi.
3/27 - 4.3
March total: 92.3/1003 -
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@7Lenny7- I like the way you think. I was thinking the same kind of thing. One of the areas around town where I generally do my long runs has tons of route options. I have done all of them enough times to have a rough idea of the distance between points X and points Y. I was thinking that if I head down to that area from my house (yes, starting off downhill), I can loop around the different segments of the area to create a route as I go. I can finish back up at my house, or call it a day at the Starbucks at the bottom of the hill and walk home with my iced coffee!
The only problem I see with this plan is that if I ditch a planned run short due to tiredness or pain, that's really going to screw with me mentally, whereas, if I go into the run knowing I am only going to do 10 or 12 miles, it won't be a big deal.0 -
jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!
I wish Strava was accurate!! It gives me HUGE calorie burns! My Garmin is much closer so I usually go by that unless my HRM malfunctioned in some way during the run.1 -
Can I just discipline myself to log miles here for 1 whole week???
WK: 3/27/17 - 4/2/17
M - 12 m. 9:55 pace.
T - 10 m. 9:33 pace.
W -
T -
F -
S -
S -
Total -
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Added 5.05 miles tonight. Stopped twice to fix this knee brace that wouldn't stay on. I think for the race on Sat., I'm going to wear shorts because that will make adjustments faster and easier.3
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Hello everyone.
Last night I had a panic attack and had to take an Ativan and lie down for the night, so my planned run went out the window.
Today I woke up and felt slightly better. Went to outpatient, ran a couple errands and then decided to go for a run. And for the first time in a good couple of weeks I felt human again. The run felt so good. The sun had come out and it was a lovely afternoon. I wound up going 8.3 miles because I just felt so good. I came home and literally thanked Jesus for such a good run after so many days of feeling like *kitten*.
Now I'm relaxing with my cat and I still feel okay. I have two new meds for anxiety. I continue to go to outpatient every day. I am hopeful.
Hope everyone had a great day.15 -
BeeerRunner wrote: »@ddmom0811 Mine is Sept 28th. We're both Libras!!
September 28 is my favorite day in the world. Why? It's the day my only child was born.3 -
RespectTheKitty wrote: »BeeerRunner wrote: »@ddmom0811 Mine is Sept 28th. We're both Libras!!
September 28 is my favorite day in the world. Why? It's the day my only child was born.
Awww!! So glad to share a birthday with your kiddo!!
Also, so happy the run made you feel better. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers that you get on the right medications that prevent the anxiety and panic attacks. Hugs!!1 -
6.1 miles while the young'un had soccer practice. Planned on 12 but a mix up on who was picking him up made me cut it short. I'll go long tomorrow. Strava says 6.5 because I forgot to stop my Garmin at the end of the run. I can't remember that happening before.
It was a warm, sweaty run. I had forgotten how much I love being drenched in sweat after a run.
188/210 miles
@lporter229 if you were to go short because you feared failing to go 20, wouldn't you then be worried during your race because you didn't get that 20 in?
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@lporter229 - If you're feeling beat up and wondering whether you should scale back a run, you definitely should scale it back. At this point, less is more. The fact that your pace has slowed is also an indicator that you're pretty beat up. Back off, start the taper early, taper lower than planned, rest up, get healthy. You'll be glad you did on Patriots' Day.
One of the things that is striking me this training cycle is that I'm in much better shape than I was last year. Part of that is because I'm retired, getting enough sleep consistently, and under much less stress. And part of it is because I'm not training as hard as I did last year for various reasons that weren't part of any grand training plan. Last year, Coach had me start tapering a week early because I had beat myself up so bad. I didn't really understand it at the time, but in hindsight that might have prevented a DNF.1 -
March Running Totals (miles)
3/1 – 7.32 easy with hills
3/2 – 13.10 long intervals
3/3 – rest day
3/4 – 16.09 paced run
3/5 – 12.67 easy with hills
3/6 – rest day
3/7 – 10.20 warm up, speed work, cool down
3/8 – 7.02 easy
3/9 – 14.25 easy with MP finish
3/10 – rest day
3/11 – 10.10 warm up + race
3/12 – 9.65 easy with hills
3/13 – 5.01 easy + 4 strides
3/14 – snow day
3/15 – snow day
3/16 – 8.05 easy
3/17 – travel day
3/18 – 6.40 commutes + race
3/19 – 11.18 MP interval
3/20 – rest day
3/21 – 15.01 tempo intervals
3/22 – 5.58 easy
3/23 – 9.16 warm up, speed work, cool down
3/24 – rest day
3/25 – 21.70 paced run + solo miles
3/26 – 3.86 easy
3/27 – 12.10 warm up, Yasso 800s, cool down
March total to date – 198.45
Nominal Challenge Goal – 225 miles
Real Goals: Stay healthy. Train well toward Boston. Run well at the USATF Masters 8K Championship in Virginia Beach.
Today's notes – Today's assignment was 10 x Yasso 800's. The form that takes in my club is, you take your goal marathon time in hours and seconds (3:16 to 3:20 for me), and run 800m in the corresponding minutes and seconds. Then you take the same time for recovery. Last year, the 800m was marked on the road around Cobb's Hill, which goes up and down. This year, there are several club members running Boston and the 800 was marked on the flat path around the reservoir at the top of Cobb's Hill. That leaves about 300m to get back to the start during the recovery period, which is no problem for me because I do an easy run for recovery.
Endurance was not a problem for me today. Pace control was a bit of an issue. The 800s came in at 3:07 (oops), 3:11, 3:19 (deliberately slowing down), 3:16, 3:14, 3:12, 3:11, 3:11, 3:13, and 3:06. That last one was fast because it was the last one, I didn't have to save anything for the next interval, and it shaved a few seconds off the time to get to the port-a-pot. If there had been a port-a-pot at the top of the hill, I would have used it in the recovery interval after the 6th 800.
Somewhere in there I picked up a couple guys using me as a pacer. I noticed them at the 7th interval. They looked younger than me as we got to the start line, so I said I'd get out of their way. No, they said, we're following you. You're the pace leader. So I knew what was going on for the last 3 800's; except I crossed them up on the 10th one. "That one was faster, wasn't it?" Yes, it was.
I have no great confidence in the predictive value of the Yasso 800's. Perhaps they work when cardio is the limiting factor, but I don't believe cardio will be the critical factor for me running a marathon. I also don't believe I'll be running a 3:11 or 3:13 marathon. 3:20 would be believable, but I'll accept 3:30 if that's what I need to do to stay healthy. Time is not the goal, finishing in good shape is.
So far, so good. A year ago, I only did 4 Yasso 800's because I was babying a hurt ankle and that's all the harder I wanted to beat on it. This year, I'm feeling pretty healthy 3 weeks out. But I'm still scared of mismanaging the race and putting myself on the couch.
2017 races:
January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA)
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I didn't get the ticker loaded earlier, so here it is:
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Didn't meet goal in February. No good excuse. Picked up a couple of overtime shifts at work...so was unmotivated afterward.
Have a stretch of days off from work...so able to get some runs in. Focusing on just getting 3 to 4 runs in per week, with one of them being a long run. Need to buy another heart rate monitor....had this one for a year and half.
Since changing my running form, feeling the soreness in more appropriate places, inner glutes, hamstrings and quads rather than hips.
Rest day tomorrow. Meeting girl friend for breakfast and then my husband and I are going to see Stevie Nicks in concert.
Met goal finally after not doing so the last 3 months. Focusing on the half marathon in May.
3/28.....3 miles in 37 minutes.
3/27....8 miles in 104 minutes....heart rate monitor screwing up.
3/25....6 miles in 85 minutes...14.17 minute miles.....heart rate monitor not working...think that I averaged 82% max heart rate.
3/24.....9 miles in 114 minutes.....12.67 minute miles at ave. max heart rate of 94 %.
3/20.....3.85 miles on the treadmill, pace at 13:02 , average max heart rate at 80%.
3/13.....8 miles....plus whatever I ran to go to the bathroom...only counting the 8.
3/11.....3.58 miles treadmill 13:57 pace at 79% max heart rate.
3/9....3 miles in 40 minutes after working all night.
3/7.....9 miles in 126 minutes....85% max heart rate.
3/1....8 miles in 95 minutes, average max heart rate at 94%.
Completed...61.43
Goal...40 miles
Upcoming race.....the mini-marathon in Indianapolis
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March goal: lose (another)3lbs
3/1 2.54 + core/strength training 30m
3/2 3.20
3/3 5.25
3/4 yoga 45m
3/5 rest
3/6 4.17
3/7 3.55
3/8 4.00
3/9 rest
3/10 2.05 and yoga 30m
3/11 lazy
3/12 3.74
3/13 snorkel 4 hours
3/14 6.38
3/15 snorkel 2 hours
3/16 2.25 + yoga 30min
3/17 4.14
3/18 rest
3/19 3.10
3/20 rest
3/21 3.91
3/22 6.43
3/23 4.00
3/24 2.60 + yoga 30m
3/25 stress day
3/26 4.00
3/27 more stress
3/28 3.25
Total: 68.57
Ticker is my goal for 2017 and progress to date:
Completed and upcoming races:
Run through the solar system Virtual 10k: 3/14
Big Island International Marathon (---just doing the 5k) 3/19
Volcano Rainforest Runs 10k 8/19
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