"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Finally someone has come out and said this. You couldn't be more right. And the people who argue against you are the exact same people who say 'if you eat within your calorie limit it's ok'. They're so one dimensional. OP you're right.
Then what should people be saying? If someone can't learn to moderate their food and eat within their means they need help that goes beyond the pay grade of forum members.14 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
Cosigned.
It also needs the jalapenos, then you have the sweet and hot, which is to die for.11 -
But what if pizza and chili cheese fries fit my calorie goals and help me hit my macros? (Hint: they do)18
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OP, I don't know what Loco Rice is and don't personally care for chili cheese fries, but when we get stuffed pizza for Friday work lunch I sometimes do feel perfectly happy and good eating just one piece (it's filling!) plus salad. At other times I get thin crust or make my own and can have more pieces for a reasonable amount of calories, plus salad or other vegetables, of course.
The bigger issue is that it takes no real effort to eat a satisfying, filling nutritious and balanced day and still have 200 calories left for some ice cream if you (or I, I guess) want it. Sure, it's easier on a day when I've done a medium or long run than one where I'm sedentary (or in a week where I exercise a reasonable amount), but even so it's not that difficult. This idea that you either eat a tiny amount of high cal/low nutrient foods (although pizza can be quite balanced and decent nutritionally) or no junk food at all seems odd to me.
Of course if what you WANT is all junk food all the time, then you might have an issue, but including some in a balanced, filling diet isn't tough and realizing it doesn't have to be all or nothing was really quite important (and helpful) for me to understand.11 -
Maxematics wrote: »The point, as others have said, is moderation. In addition, it's about learning how to change habits and lifestyles. A slice or two of pizza is indeed a meal. Eating an entire pizza is usually a meal...for a family. That is unless someone has the calorie allowance for it. Overeating and poor portion control is what got most people needing to lose weight in the first place. If the only way you can be successful is by going balls to the wall and give up everything, then do what you have to I guess.
I've had my share of days along the way where I've consciously said "to hell with the calorie allowance" and eaten as much of whatever I wanted. 4000-6000 calorie days. But they're few and far between, and I don't let them become multi-day or week-long binges. An occasional "free day" won't cause much of a setback - but if you allow them to become more than 'occasional', they most certainly will.
[sidebar:] Granted, some people can't/shouldn't do that because for them it will cause a full-on trainwreck of cataclysmic proportions. If you (the generic 'you') are one of those people, it would probably be a better idea to not do that. It works for some, can be disastrous for others.12 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
Cosigned.
It also needs the jalapenos, then you have the sweet and hot, which is to die for.
Reminds me of my favorite sandwich (which has a lot of calories, so is a lunch splurge): thinly spliced madrange ham, gruyere, mango chutney, avocado, and jalapenos.4 -
Oh, and when I have that splurge for lunch -- it comes with almonds or housemade chips and with that ends up around 680-700 calories -- I can fit it in without difficulty just by being a little less indulgent at dinner or skipping ice cream if I was planning to have some. Usually I prefer to have more like 450-500 calorie lunches, but it's sometimes worth it, and somehow I don't end up starving on those days, not at all.4
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tiffanifair wrote: »I think the great thing about being able to eat whatever you want as long as it fits the calories is that there is absolutely no deprivation. For me, so often I would cut all the things out I like and would go crazy and give up after 2-4 weeks because I was miserable. After finding CICO it allows me to choose what more calorically dense foods I think it's worth using calories on and what foods aren't worth it. I CAN eat whatever I want (so freeing) but I choose to eat mostly calorically dilute and fit in the few things that are worth the calories for me. Telling me I CANT have something is the quickest way to get my inner fat girl to stomp around, throw a fit, and quit;)
I have an inner fat girl also and she likes cake and pizza and wings and big macs!6 -
Most folks who are in this for the long haul have figured it out. Yes, eat what you want within your daily goal. BUT, a huge plate of vegetables is a lot more filling and satisfying than one slice of crappy pizza.9
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I'm not an expert at weight loss or anything, but I do think that you need to let people have some lee-way to eat the things they need to get by, honestly
Not everyone can be a kale freak all the time lol8 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
Cosigned.
It also needs the jalapenos, then you have the sweet and hot, which is to die for.
Reminds me of my favorite sandwich (which has a lot of calories, so is a lunch splurge): thinly spliced madrange ham, gruyere, mango chutney, avocado, and jalapenos.
Could I get one to go please?
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Is this going to be one of those infuriating threads where an OP drops some inflammatory statements, and then never returns to discuss?22
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WinoGelato wrote: »Is this going to be one of those infuriating threads where an OP drops some inflammatory statements, and then never returns to discuss?
Yes.
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I'm confused, is it Friday already?
When I'm trying to lose weight, I eat @ 1500 calories. I have 2 slices of pizza and a beer for dinner on Friday. I get a Spicy Chicken Sandwich meal at Wendys for lunch on Monday. I have ice cream for dessert a couple of other nights of the week. I have a bowl of dark chocolates on the end table which I hit for one or two squares pretty much every day. I eat about 50% whole food and 50% processed food. I don't feel hungry.
Many people fail because they try to eat a diet they don't like, run out of will power, and crash. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, and learning that 1 slice of pizza loaded with veggies is in fact a filling meal is a good lesson to learn. Sure there will be some things that you just can't moderate, but if you avoid ever food that doesn't have a halo, you will probably be miserable.
So as a conscious, reasonably intelligent adult you learn through trial and error how to fit some of the "bad" food into your diet in moderation, you make sure you eat plenty of nutritious foods around that, and you go about your day. Blaming strangers on the internet for giving you incomplete advice when the specifics will be different for everyone is short-sighted. We can't tell individuals how to find that balance, we can only tell them that balance exists. I can tell you that personally finding that balance for myself was probably the most important thing I've ever done for health :drinker:16 -
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
:laugh:
I don't know ANYONE who eats like that. What a sad life.
Why do YOU even care what others eat? And why should I listen to this....."advice" or rant when I have a someone qualified (Dietitian) telling me that moderation is okay? What are YOUR qualifications in nutrition?
I eat what I want, within my calorie limit...and no, not "1 slice of pizza". Thanks for the laugh.13 -
Detritus_1965 wrote: »
The internet lol, I'm pretty sure it was a joke4 -
Absoultely agree, hate this if it fits your macro crap... carbs are not all the same, proteins are not all the same, fats/sugars/oils etc are not all the same.... yes a cheat meal is fine after a solid effort week but dont throw cheat meals in everyday cause it fits the basic macros some overpaid PT has told you to follow, they make money from your slow progress
The biggest and baddest bodybuilders will count every calorie and macro, because it counts and matters
Lollies = Carbs
Rice = Carbs
But theyre not the same carbs and the hidden macros behind it all will bite you in the *kitten* too4 -
If your favourite food doesn't fit into your "new" nutrition-plan the plan isn't worth a *kitten*.
I understand where the OP is coming from and he is right, staying in deficit isn't the whole truth ...
If I try to achieve this by only eating junk-food this will usually lead to no good end.
Please do not forget that while "[...]Learning portion control, calorie banking, and that Domino's pizza isn't worth the calories [...]" it is most definitely a longer process and not to be tried in totallity on day 1 of the project. Those of us who ended here with a severe weight-problem most likely didn't reach that point by their capabilty to fully estimate what happens to their metabolism if they try to nourish on the big three (McD, KFC and PH) with the occcasional overdose of sugar and fat (peanutbutter, chocolate, Ben&Jerry's). It IS a process of learning and re-programming and what went wrong for (in many cases) several decades isn't easily corrected within a few months.
Those happy people here who made (or even still make) it through their process by having found their personal variant please do not deny this personal variant to others. There is no absoute truth in weight-loss. My way is not yours, my loss-rate will not be yours.
"One step at a time" is possibly the only universal truth in this process, some may share long passages of the way, many will never even meet the same road, others seem to come to come the wrong way. We can offer assistance if asked for help, but please try not to "correct" the method found if not asked for guidance because most likely it will end up with a "sheep" that has lost it's way.5 -
Absoultely agree, hate this if it fits your macro crap... carbs are not all the same, proteins are not all the same, fats/sugars/oils etc are not all the same.... yes a cheat meal is fine after a solid effort week but dont throw cheat meals in everyday cause it fits the basic macros some overpaid PT has told you to follow, they make money from your slow progress
The biggest and baddest bodybuilders will count every calorie and macro, because it counts and matters
Lollies = Carbs
Rice = Carbs
But theyre not the same carbs and the hidden macros behind it all will bite you in the *kitten* too
No.18 -
Detritus_1965 wrote: »If your favourite food doesn't fit into your "new" nutrition-plan the plan isn't worth a *kitten*.
I understand where the OP is coming from and he is right, staying in deficit isn't the whole truth ...
If I try to achieve this by only eating junk-food this will usually lead to no good end.
Please do not forget that while "[...]Learning portion control, calorie banking, and that Domino's pizza isn't worth the calories [...]" it is most definitely a longer process and not to be tried in totallity on day 1 of the project. Those of us who ended here with a severe weight-problem most likely didn't reach that point by their capabilty to fully estimate what happens to their metabolism if they try to nourish on the big three (McD, KFC and PH) with the occcasional overdose of sugar and fat (peanutbutter, chocolate, Ben&Jerry's). It IS a process of learning and re-programming and what went wrong for (in many cases) several decades isn't easily corrected within a few months.
Those happy people here who made (or even still make) it through their process by having found their personal variant please do not deny this personal variant to others. There is no absoute truth in weight-loss. My way is not yours, my loss-rate will not be yours.
"One step at a time" is possibly the only universal truth in this process, some may share long passages of the way, many will never even meet the same road, others seem to come to come the wrong way. We can offer assistance if asked for help, but please try not to "correct" the method found if not asked for guidance because most likely it will end up with a "sheep" that has lost it's way.
Who said you can't take it one step at a time, and who said the OP is doing it wrong?
OP said we give bad advice, we're explaining why we don't agree <shrug>10
This discussion has been closed.
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