"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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OMG YOU'RE FROM THE FUTURE!!1!CaliMomTeach wrote: »While I know I can have french fries whenever I want, I have only ordered them ONCE since July of 2018.
Do you happen to know the winning Powerball numbers for next week? Not asking for any particular reason; just curious.
Lol!! I meant 2016. That is funny. I must need to eat more (haha), my brain isn't working.
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I live my life with all the foods. 65lbs down and counting and I will eat the *kitten* out of a cheeseburger if it fits my calories.6
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NannersBalletLegs wrote: »All I can say is you and I must be reading very different threads. I see posters go out of their way to mention "but, nutrition" all the time.
And I'm sorry, but it is kind of condescending to suggest that the average newbie doesn't realize that nutrition is important without being explicitly told that in every single reply. I don't think the concept that "weight loss" and "health" are two related but different things is such an intellectual leap for most.
We must be, because all I'm seeing in this thread (with about two exceptions), is a bunch of people responding with things like, "No thanks. I'll take my chili cheese fries over your broccoli" or "Fall on your face eating organic chia seeds, you weirdo. I'm gonna go eat buffalo wings and chocolate and pizza." Those aren't exact quotes of course, but it's the general spirit of much of the commentary in this thread. I guess everyone prefers flame wars to actual conversations just like in every other internet forum.
A lot of people are really ignorant about basic nutrition. It's not necessarily insulting people to offer nutritional advice or to assume that they may not have a lot of knowledge. I was very uneducated (and pretty indifferent) about that sort of thing when I was really young and am still learning more all the time. As I enter my mid-thirties, I find that my interest in it has only grown, because I'd really like to avoid osteoporosis, colon cancer, and other unpleasantness as I age. Anyone who wants to remind me to eat my leafy greens and take a vitamin every now and again is okay in my book.
But we aren't giving advice to a newbie here. Someone decided to post a rant about how all of these random people giving free advice on the internet aren't doing it right, and we're responding to that, right?
Here's the thing: I'm not a doctor. I'm not every poster's mom. I'm not a paid consultant. If they ask - Is it true I can lose weight while eating junk food? My answer is yes, because I believe that will help them. I have no responsibility here beyond posting my opinion. It's not my job to teach them about nutrition, or post a 12 paragraph synopsis summarizing every possible eventuality they might run into. If they want more info, they can ask. And if someone doesn't think that's enough info, they are more than welcome to post their own far more detailed response in whatever thread they want. Rather than starting this thread-rant, OP could have set aside some time every day and contributed by posting his own free advice on the many newbie threads that pop up every day, instead of criticizing the people who bother to do that.22 -
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Or you have that one slice of pizza with heaps of salad on the side to add volume of food intake without the calories. I am all for making healthy food choices most of the time but will never get in the mindset that I can't eat a particular food. As soon as you say you can't have something you crave it more.6 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
You can't be Australian to say something so rediculous4 -
I'm not an expert at weight loss or anything, but I do think that you need to let people have some lee-way to eat the things they need to get by, honestly
Not everyone can be a kale freak all the time lol
I made homemade pizza last night and decided to add kale to see what it would be like. I actually enjoyed the flavour and liked the fact that there was more colour. Surprising on what you experiment with when you are trying to hit nutritional goals. Today's experiment was scrambled eggs with tuna.2 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »I'm not an expert at weight loss or anything, but I do think that you need to let people have some lee-way to eat the things they need to get by, honestly
Not everyone can be a kale freak all the time lol
I made homemade pizza last night and decided to add kale to see what it would be like. I actually enjoyed the flavour and liked the fact that there was more colour. Surprising on what you experiment with when you are trying to hit nutritional goals. Today's experiment was scrambled eggs with tuna.
I like chopped up dill pickles in my scrambled eggs.5 -
I've found it truly remarkable how my palate has changed over the last three months since I changed some habits:
I used to be a sugar junkie. Now I enjoy stevia and cinnamon in my coffee.
I used to eat too much ice cream. Now I enjoy plain greek yogurt with blueberries - a lot!
I used to drink soda with dinner. Now I prefer plain water.
Rice, pasta, or bread were once the highlight of every meal. Now I crave vegetables and green smoothies.
I agree that telling all people, "Eat whatever you want but stay within your calorie limit" is not always the best advice, especially for those who feel overeating is an overwhelming problem for them, and particularly for those who have a health problem relating to their food choices. These people (like me) need someone to offer them hope that a diet of healthful foods can taste good, be satisfying and be sustainable.
The exceptions to the rule don't necessarily need to become the rule.4 -
The "garbage advice" has helped me more than I can explain so I'll say this...
One mans garbage is another's treasure.37 -
Everyone I know that tried a restricted diet cutting out the 'bad' stuff put weight on after they reintroduced those foods even a little bit. One person lost loads in a short time then binged. Too many people think diets work because they lose the weigh for their goal, put weight on, and know they can lose it again when they need to. That's not success.
A successful 'diet' is one where the weight stays off.10 -
I agree
I love pizza, and cannot restrict myself to a slice.
Almost always I will go over my calories but then I balance it out over the week.
So in essence I do agree with you OP but I found my way around it as I refuse to give up pizza, burgers, cakes etc1 -
I'm definitely finding things much easier this time round, and that's because, this time, I made the decision to continue eating the things I enjoy and will be happy eating for the rest of my life.10
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.......MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated.
Way too much assuming going on here. I have the appetite of a 300 pound linebacker, whether I weigh 115 or 200 (I am a small, older woman). I am very rarely "satisfied" for any length of time, despite eating a large-ish volume of food (which I do by lowering fat content and going with vegetables, whole grains, and lean protein). I get what you're saying in your original post as far as still being hungry if I "ate what I want," because I want 4-5 slices of thick-crust pizza, not 1. I want 2 massive bowls of ice cream, not 65 grams. I will ALWAYS want those portions. But I've learned self-control and discipline and worked on much of my reasons for emotional eating.
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"You can't have that" made up a large part of those underlying psychological issues for me. Malnourishment - because I couldn't find a healthy reating regimen that worked; I just tried and tried (and failed) to stick to the restrictive eating habits I believed were necessary to be healthy - was an important underlying physiological issue. Too easy access to hyperpalatable trigger foods was the third element in this evil trifecta. I don't think I'm that unusual.NannersBalletLegs wrote: »Many binge eaters and emotional eaters continue to be triggered by calorie-dense, super-satiating (did you mean the opposite?) foods, because they haven't yet worked through the underlying psychological issues that are causing them to overeat and feel an overwhelming urge to numb or soothe themselves with ice cream, cake, pizza, french fries, etc. They don't yet have the emotional tools or the necessary support system to deal with depression, grief, anxiety, or whatever is bothering them on a deeper level. And let's face it—the emotional eater demographic probably makes up a fairly sizable minority here on MFP. I include myself in this group and am temporarily avoiding trigger foods (cake is a big one) while I get a handle on the underlying emotional issues. It's not like I'm banishing cake forever because of the notion that it's somehow "unclean," but it does get in the way of me sorting through the things that require attention, you know? And, like it or not, my brain is now kind of wired to use cake like a drug until I get those neurons firing in a different way.
Or you could take the "eat this, not that" national nutritional guidelines type advice "to heart" (meaning, get a superficial understanding, as I had, just as the one you have of "eat whatever you want within your calorie allowance"), and end up in really poor health. Of course we want to take care of our bodies. People don't scoff down junk because they don't want to take care of their body, but because something is lost. Enjoyment of food, for instance. Trust in one's own ability to make good choices.Someone who takes this advice to heart might lose weight but still end up in really poor health. Yes, we're mostly talking about weight loss, but when eating at a deficit, you're more likely to become deficient in certain nutrients, so it stands to reason that nutrition should probably take center stage during the weight loss portion of a fitness journey. It's not a requirement, of course, but why wouldn't you want to take care of your body to the best of your ability?
This is where I have ended up. I don't care enough about chocolate and chips to bother buying or eating it regularly. But I wouldn't have ended up here if I still had that fear that I was poisoning myself daily, and the feeling of defeat for not being able to adhere to "healthy eating". I couldn't have ended up here without an alternative that I like better: Yummy food that I can eat to satiety.eating those foods in moderation while losing would require such minuscule portions that it would get sort of ridiculous
Eventually, small such small portions of these yummy foods become kind of a why bother thing for some of us, ya know?6 -
I think OP that you are taking the advice of just eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories a little out of context. The idea about it is to get people in the mindset of not demonising food. The chances are emotional eater, fussy eater whatever kind of eater you are that you come on to mfp with the same mindset as you (I use the general you here) had when you followed any diet. That there are foods you can and can't have. The experienced people on the forum have been there, done that, it demonises foods you love and crave even more because in your head you have said you can't have them because they are bad for you. That is setting yourself up for failure from the start. The idea a lot of us experienced folk (yep I'm counting myself in that group) are trying to get across is that getting to and staying at a healthy weight is the start of a lifestyle, not a diet then go back to the old ways. In a lifestyle you are not going to eat 100% healthy all of the time, life just doesn't work that way so try and include the foods you enjoy, don't force yourself to eat foods you don't because they are supposed to be good for you and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day and go over its life. But be open to try new foods that you haven't had before that may be less calorie dense than your usual.
Sometimes these things get very shortened in a post but you have to realise that the same questions get asked time and time again year after year, people want to help but probably shorten their response a little making it difficult to interpret correctly and therefore people can take it out of context a little. This is why there are some great stickied posts at the top of the forums. In general they just want to spare newbies the same mistakes they made though.
I find it a little offensive you assume we have forgotten what it is like to be fat, I certainly don't, I'm close to goal now but I don't realise how thin I am in comparison to my morbidly obese self, I still feel like that fat girl I was and am surprised time and time again when I look in the mirror.
And you know there is nothing wrong with cutting foods completely for a while, I couldn't have cookies and biscuits (in the UK context of biscuits) in the house as they were my emotional crutch, it forced me to find other ways to deal with my emotions.
MFP is designed so that you can lose weight in whatever way works for you within a calorie defecit and that is what is so great about it. But if asking for advice on the forums, 100% of the time, you will hear what has worked for the responder to the question, of course if you don't want to hear: "you can eat whatever you like in moderation within your calorie allotment" then you can ignore that advice.6 -
certainly if you binge all your calories in crappy food you wont be eating much and you will be hungry. but using your spare calories for a slice of pizza or a chocolate bar every now and then is crucial to not falling off the wagon and binging all over again.4
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People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
People can, and do, eat all foods in moderation, and lose weight. Because you, and others, may not be able to eat this way, doesn't mean that other people can not be successful. Your "advice isn't helpful in practice", for everyone.
For me, it is better learning to eat in moderation and portion control, preparing myself for a sustainable way of eating for life. May not work for everyone, but different things work for different people.
BTW, the statistics for keeping the weight off successfully for over 5 years are very discouraging (over 80% of people gain the weight back, some gaining even more than they lost). Perhaps teaching yourself portion control and moderation may help some of us be in the low percent that keep the weight off. Worth a try IMHO.
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
You can't be Australian to say something so rediculous
Pineapple on pizza *sigh* I have enough calories left to eat this right now 2 -
Here is what I am seeing in this thread, many, many people who have successfully lost weight and kept it off for years. Then I see a few people who are new and/or struggling with weight loss. One side is telling the other side that they are doing it wrong. See, I can generalize too. I took the time not so long ago to do the research on the nutritional breakdown of a slice of Mellow Mushroom Mighty Meaty pizza, while I dont remember the exact numbers, it came out very good in terms of macro/micro nutrient content. It is calorie dense, I can't eat it everyday, but it is far from junk food. I can work a Big Mac into my week with no problem. What some of the detractors fail to realize is, most of us already tried restriction and we already know that it doesn't work. Keep telling yourself that my pizza every three or four weeks is setting me back and your (fill in the blank) is far superior, get back with me 36 months from now.12
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I'll jump in. This past Christmas season was my first Christmas in CICO land. I discovered that there is indeed an attractive calorie-dense food which I cannot eat in moderation. Pecan pie. It was good, but it won't be invited into my home again. I had 30 grams of fruitcake every day for 2 months, 130 calories each. But portioning enough pecan pie into something I can eat and be satisfied and be under 200 calories proved impossible. I can have Girl Scout Cookies in moderation. I can have fruitcake in moderation. I can even have chia seeds on my homemade pizza in moderation. Now that I've discovered that I can't be moderate with pecan pie, there's no point experimenting with banana pudding and coconut cake. When I was big and fat, no reason existed that I should consider avoiding pies, cakes, or even put chia seeds on a pizza. None at all. When I decided to start living like a small person, everything I could eat was evaluated in a new light. Should I eat it? Some delights pass the test. Some don't. My calorie budget is to get at least 1600 and stop at 1700. Sometimes I eat exercise calories. Yesterday I exercised ate calories.11
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I have been giving this a lot of thought. Getting newbies to start with CICO is the best place to start with transitioning to the new them. They start with the very basics of weight loss. They realise that there is no food that has to be avoided at all costs. From here people would often transition to paying more attention to macros and IIFYM way of thinking which will make them think more about nutrition. They can still easily fit in treats but realise that care needs to taken to properly fit these into their nutritional needs. This leads to healthier food choices in general and working out which treats are important to them and how often they can be consumed but overall their diet is so much healthier.
Some go to greater extremes by limiting so much and sticking to 'clean food' (whatever that is) which works for them. However some of these same people then avoid social situations involving food because of an inability to stray from their chosen diet. If this works for them and they are achieving their goals then great. However, most of us are social beings. Generally we need these occassions for our mental health. There is no point being physically well if your mental health is out of kilter. Health is a mixer of diet, exercise and mental wellbeing. We need to work out a healthy balance of all 3 to achieve our best health possible. For many, a diet allowing for these types of meals and treats is essential for our overall wellbeing.10 -
By allowing myself to have the treats I love in smaller portions I was able to learn portion control. By slowing down and making the process of eating 1 truffle or 1 cupcake (with ALL the frosting), and making the enjoyment of those few bites a full sensory experience, I realized binging on sweets does nothing to satisfy me. This first couple of bites are the best and all I need to be satisfied. I also learned what treats are worth the calorie cost- Oreos do nothing for me but carrot cake with cream cheese frosting is worth every sacrifice I make to afford it. Working these things into my diet was part of the learning process.
Honestly, I also use my daily treat as motivation to get out of bed and exercise. If I get up and get in a 30-40 minute run/walk before work, by dinner time I bank 13,000-15,000 steps for the day (I also walk to work). This is more than enough exercise to afford a 150 calorie treat and still be under my calorie goal for the day). I run for chocolate. If chocolate is what motivates me to move, then that's just the way it's going to be.12 -
PIZZA FRIDAYS BABY!
down just shy of 60 pounds and still losing. I enjoy a couple slices every Friday without fail and it hasn't stopped me. and for the record I'm not one of those who forgot what its like to be fat cause I still am, but I am one of those that realized that this if for life and not temporary and life has room for pizza, burgers, ice cream etc.
I totally chowed down on some pizza last night. I have learned that eating a plate of salad before my pizza helps me control how much pizza I eat. My pizza place has an AMAZING spinach salad that I seriously crave (their white balsamic dressing is to die for), so I get a 2 for 1 deal on favorite foods on pizza nights 4 -
There are widespread misconceptions out there that healthy food is not fun, that it's bland, boring, tastes terrible, and is expensive. It has taken some trial and error, but I have finally gotten to the point where I'm staying within calorie and financial budgets, losing weight, and loving my food and exercise on a Mediterranean/whole foods plan with lots of moving my body. A tray of really beautiful cupcakes were presented to me. I felt bad that had upset the person who wanted me to eat one, but I did not feel I had missed out. I'm tired of feeling tired and heavy. Chili cheese fries? No thanks. I'm really in the mood for hummus and veggies.0
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Actually, whenever I have eaten "clean" for a decent period of time, I have always fallen off the wagon and binged on foods that I had been restricting myself from having. Since I've been allowing myself treats built into most of my days, I haven't binged as much. It's all about moderation.12
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If I just ate whatever I loved and stopped when I hit my calorie limit, I'd be done eating at noon. I think IFIFYM works great if you can eat at least 2000 calories and lose, but what if you're smallish, maintain on maybe 1700 calories and need to go down to 1400 or so to lose, and you are one of those people who is often HUNGRY? Suddenly a giant salad with grilled chicken and a teaspoon of olive oil with balsalmic is looking great, while that Big Mac is just a recipe for not being able to eat a decently filling dinner.6
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A life without Dairy Queen is not a life I am willing to live. I can lose/maintain weight and still have my fast food DQ once a week. We also always have dessert on Friday night after the end of a long hard week. Depriving yourself will be your undoing at some point. The lesson is to learn how to incorporate these things into your life and not consistently deprive yourself. Deprivation will eventually lead to a binge and derail you hard.4
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It's all about context. Not ONE person on any thread I've been on is an advocate for filling your day with "junk". It's about moderation and not restricting or cutting ANY food group.7
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Agree with this. I was using portion control, but losing nothing. Went low carb, weight came off. But that's just ME. Some benefit from lowering carbs, others don't. Basically got to find what works for your unique situation.4
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