"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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  • NannersBalletLegs
    NannersBalletLegs Posts: 207 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    1) Many binge eaters and emotional eaters continue to be triggered by calorie-dense, super-satiating foods, because they haven't yet worked through the underlying psychological issues that are causing them to overeat and feel an overwhelming urge to numb or soothe themselves with ice cream, cake, pizza, french fries, etc.

    This is not about the food, really, though, and restricting can be even more problematic. Someone with a BED should consider getting help, but I would say different issues apply. (I'm an emotional eater, and even for that I know there's more to it than just watching calories -- I need to work on psychological triggers.)
    You need fruit and veggies and other micronutrient and antioxidant rich foods to fuel your body properly and keep it in the best condition possible. I know none of you are saying it's fine to just eat McD's and pizza every day, but I do think that there is a tendency to oversimplify the CICO thing as "eat whatever you want" and lose weight without acknowledging some of the other consequences. Someone who takes this advice to heart might lose weight but still end up in really poor health.

    Honestly, I think (a) someone who eats only junk food knows better and would do it no matter what people on MFP said, and (b) if you and I know that of course we should eat a healthful diet and that eating "whatever you want within your calories" doesn't mean only donuts or whatever (and, seriously, yuck, who would want to?), then why assume other people are too ignorant to figure that out? I think politeness requires assuming that most people have some common sense and get that "eat what you want within your calories" also involves "eat a nutritionally-balanced diet for health, including vegetables, protein, etc."
    3) It is a lot, LOT harder to fit in calorie-dense foods while still eating at a deficit when you are (a) short and (b) closer to a healthy weight.

    It's not that hard, really. I'm 5'3, 125, and granted I have been mostly maintaining (although I ate plenty of ice cream and weekly restaurant dinners and so on losing from 140 to 125), but with exercise I could easily keep a deficit at this weight and eat ice cream or weekly restaurant splurges or some pizza (which need not be more than a normal dinner anyway), etc.

    Yes, satiety is important, but absolutely no one says otherwise. This is not something that is ignored on MFP.

    Yes, someone with any eating disorder should absolutely get help. MFP will never be an appropriate stand-in for a qualified mental health professional. I am glad to hear from a fellow emotional eater. I know that our perspectives and experiences probably vary in spite of that. In my own experience, removing the foods that I use as a crutch to suppress my feelings has actually helped me make progress in working through those feelings. There have been so many times in the past that I would just buy or bake a cake and eat the whole thing in a day to avoid addressing something that is bothering me. Now, I tell myself, "Okay. We can't go to cake for help today. We need to stop, breathe, figure out where this is coming from, and formulate an appropriate response. Are we lonely? Maybe we should call a friend? Are we anxious? Maybe we should go for a run on the treadmill and burn off some excess energy or maybe just meditate." Giving cake and a few other items the boot (albeit temporarily) has given me a lot of freedom to explore my feelings in greater depth and keep them from running my life. Again, I'm speaking about my own experience and don't assume to understand yours. I do know that I've met a lot of others like me on here, though.

    I think you're probably right in saying that most people know that McDonald's, pizza, whatever, isn't technically good for you and that they would probably eat it regardless of what anyone is telling them. Perhaps my assertion that CICO advocates should be qualifying their advice with nutritional caveats is unfair for this reason. However, I do think that far too many tend to make a fetish of their ability to "eat anything" and still lose weight. Many are also far too quick to assume that when someone is saying that "eat whatever and still lose weight is bad advice" that that means that someone is somehow trying to take away their chocolate and their cheeseburgers. It's silly.

    Your point about being able to include more of those foods with added exercise is well taken, and I did try to address that at some point in a previous reply. However, I didn't really want to go into the subject of intense physical exercise, because it's not something that everyone can do. Disabilities and injuries can make obtaining a caloric deficit through exercise far more difficult—not impossible—but definitely more challenging. I guess I was trying to be more inclusive by not going into that.

  • jdb3388
    jdb3388 Posts: 239 Member
    edited March 2017
    You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
  • newheavensearth
    newheavensearth Posts: 870 Member
    Theo166 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    I can fit 1/2 of a large, thin crust ham and pineapple pizza into my daily calories relatively easily, so why shouldn't I?
    Because pineapple shouldn't be anywhere near a pizza... :tongue:

    Cosigned.

    It also needs the jalapenos, then you have the sweet and hot, which is to die for.

    And bacon... maybe some ham.
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
    Fair enough.
  • NannersBalletLegs
    NannersBalletLegs Posts: 207 Member
    edited March 2017
    annacole94 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    All I can say is you and I must be reading very different threads. I see posters go out of their way to mention "but, nutrition" all the time.

    And I'm sorry, but it is kind of condescending to suggest that the average newbie doesn't realize that nutrition is important without being explicitly told that in every single reply. I don't think the concept that "weight loss" and "health" are two related but different things is such an intellectual leap for most.

    We must be, because all I'm seeing in this thread (with about two exceptions), is a bunch of people responding with things like, "No thanks. I'll take my chili cheese fries over your broccoli" or "Fall on your face eating organic chia seeds, you weirdo. I'm gonna go eat buffalo wings and chocolate and pizza." Those aren't exact quotes of course, but it's the general spirit of much of the commentary in this thread. I guess everyone prefers flame wars to actual conversations just like in every other internet forum.

    A lot of people are really ignorant about basic nutrition. It's not necessarily insulting people to offer nutritional advice or to assume that they may not have a lot of knowledge. I was very uneducated (and pretty indifferent) about that sort of thing when I was really young and am still learning more all the time. As I enter my mid-thirties, I find that my interest in it has only grown, because I'd really like to avoid osteoporosis, colon cancer, and other unpleasantness as I age. Anyone who wants to remind me to eat my leafy greens and take a vitamin every now and again is okay in my book.

    You get answers to the questions you ask.

    If you post an attack rant, then buckle up and get ready for a hard defense.

    If you're a reasonable person with a reasonable question, people are really informative. If you ask for support, you'll get support.

    But if you're aggressive and disjointed and spewing nonsense, it goes like this.

    Just so you know, I'm not the OP. I didn't post an "attack rant." I don't know if that was entirely clear based on your response, which seemed strongly directed at me as if I was the OP. What I wrote was a very long, thoughtful response that acknowledged some gray area and some points on both sides in addition to trying to bring some other voices and perspectives. Overall, I was expressing the perspective that "eat whatever within your limits" isn't super helpful in some circumstances and wanted to discuss that gray area. Most people did respond to me in a civil manner, even if they disagreed or didn't really get what I was saying. Fine. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people just being snarky and over-the-top without really contributing anything to the debate. Sure, the OP started a fire. That doesn't mean we should just continue throwing gasoline on it.
  • kgirlhart
    kgirlhart Posts: 5,143 Member
    jdb3388 wrote: »
    People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.

    It was helpful to me. I'm at my goal weight now, but it was not long ago that I was still overweight. I was overweight most of my adult life. I haven't forgotten what it was like. For me having small portions of "junk" food is satisfying. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what I want is what causes me to derail and overeat. Eating food you don't really like and depriving yourself of foods you love may work for you but I don't think that advice is helpful in practice.
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