April 2017 Running Challenge

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  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    Hopefully I'll have time to post a race report tonight. For now I'll just leave this here

    5eyriushp0r2.jpg

    This made my day lol. Can't wait to read the full report when the kids are in bed!
  • Mari33a
    Mari33a Posts: 1,281 Member
    edited April 2017
    girlinahat wrote: »
    @Skipper111

    I recently came across a method of calculating long runs called something like the 1,2,3 method. It involves 6 days a week, usually done as short, medium, short, medium, short, long, rest.

    The medium runs are twice as long as the short runs, and the long runs three times as long. The rationale is that the long run can never be more than 30% or the weekly total.

    Alternatively, you could take the distance for your long run, and base your other runs round it ensuring the total is 100% and the long run is no more than 30% of that. For me sometimes this means I am running twice in one day to ensure I am covering the mileage during the rest of the week. I'm hoping this will help me as lately I have been overtraining (as pointed out to me from the lovely folks here) and so far I'm feeling a lot better for it.

    I'm glad you posted that again as I had been searching for it back when you first posted it. The sensible thing would have been to ask you to post it again! But oh not that would be too easy :D
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    Hopefully I'll have time to post a race report tonight. For now I'll just leave this here

    5eyriushp0r2.jpg

    That looks awesome! Great picture! You totally look like your having a blast.

    You just made me want to sign up for that 50k even more. Ugh, the insane urge to just go for it is so real...... I think I'm insane.
  • karllundy
    karllundy Posts: 1,490 Member
    @7lenny7 - That pic is awesome!

    I requested to join the Strava group. Should be easy to see as I use my actual name here. Not sure I want to go through the effort of transferring files from MMR to Strava though. May just give Strava a shot for a few days/weeks. If I like it, I might move April runs or some such.

    @Skipper111 - I don't have anything to add, but find that the people that have responded have great information and advice, so you can't go wrong.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    April Running Totals (miles)
    4/1 – 18.19 paced run
    4/2 – 3.90 easy 30 minutes
    4/3 – rest day
    4/4 – 10.75 tempo intervals
    4/5 – 6.85 group run
    4/6 – 8.18 tempo intervals
    4/7 – rest day
    4/8 – 12.07 paced run
    4/9 – 7.83 almost easy 60 minutes
    4/10 – 4.51 easy 30 minutes + 4 strides
    4/11 – 7.81 warm up, speed work, cool down

    April total to date – 80.09

    Nominal Challenge Goal – 150 miles
    Real Goals: Run Boston. Finish healthy. Recover well.

    Today's notes – Today's assignment was 2 miles easy, 4 x 1000 at T pace, 2 miles easy. The club practice this evening is a time conflict with the Fleet Feet Boston Send Off party I want to attend, so I ran this morning. Did 2+ miles easy commuting to the track, ran 4 x 1000 with 200 recovery on the track, then 2+ miles easy commuting back home.

    My thinking was that I'm in taper, so I should take things easy. Running hard on the road seemed intimidating (for no good reason, just taper crazy), and running it on the track would be a way of toning the workout down. That, and I could have a known 1000 meter distance. On the commute to the track, I did the math in my head. The 49 second per 200 m I targeted for T in January and February works out to 4:05 per 1000 m. I'm a bit more fit now, so maybe 48 seconds, working out to 4:00 per 1000 m.

    I ran the actual 1000s in 3:48.5, 3:50.5, 3:44.7, and 3:43.3. By the third one, I was targeting a 46 second 200 m split. Still, I think I ran them a bit harder than I was supposed to. Oh, well. A mere 4000 m of a little too fast isn't going to kill me.

    That's the last time I'll run that fast for over a week, unless I have that much left in the legs when I get to Hereford Street. At that point, it will be a case of giving it whatever I have left.

    2017 races:
    January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
    January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
    January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
    January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
    February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
    February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
    February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
    March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
    March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
    April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA)


  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    @Elise4270 Thanks for letting me into the Strava MFP group. I didn't even know about Strava, I was on MMR. I'll give it a try.

    Thanks for the nutrition info everyone! I've never run long enough to feel like I need it. I'm going to need it later on in the year though. I plan to sign up for the Peak to Creek (May 1) Marathon in October. This will be my first marathon!! I'm nervous because 13.1 is the longest I've ever continuously run. I'm not a training plan type runner. I typically just run, that's why it's good that I joined this group to set a monthly goal and start getting some structure in my running or I would end up not running for a week or so. If anyone will be trianing for a marathon in September/October that would help me know if I'm doing alright.

    I'm going to try to fit in a run tonight. My son has soccer practice at 6 and I get home at 4 so we'll see. Hope everyone's having great running weather!!
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
    Love the pic @7lenny7 ! If you finish your report in less than 4 weeks after the race, you'll beat me!! Lol! Anyway, I look forward to reading it whenever you do get a chance to write it.
  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    edited April 2017
    HA ha! Ok, sorry. Thank you Lenny for approving me!!

    Love the pic BTW!

  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
    Ha, love the picture @7lenny7!
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    ctlaws44 wrote: »
    @Elise4270 Thanks for letting me into the Strava MFP group. I didn't even know about Strava, I was on MMR. I'll give it a try.

    Hey, don't give her the credit, I approved you!! I do all the work, she gets all the glory....
    ;)

    Right! I've just been following everyone!

    Welcome to the group(s) @ctlaws44 !

    And Lenny, that picture should go on our (Stan's) Strava group page!
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    @7lenny7 - That is a great race pic!! Better than great even!
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    edited April 2017
    Something changed within the last week with our security settings at work and I can no longer see photos in posts. I am so bummed because I want to see @7lenny7's race photo!

    General question for the group: Pre-marathon week, do you up your overall calorie intake, or just adjust your percentage of carbs? When do you start shifting your dietary focus and by how much?

    Traditionally, I slowly start ramping my carbs up about 2-3 weeks out because I generally eat pretty low carb and the sudden onslaught of carbs upsets my stomach. I increase my calorie intake by about 200 calories per day starting the Monday before a race. I focus on getting 55-60% of my calories from carbs and I focus on drinking a lot more fruit juices and sports drinks. This formula has worked pretty well for me in the past, but I was just wondering how it compares to what everybody else does.
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,498 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Something changed within the last week with our security settings at work and I can no longer see photos in posts. I am so bummed because I want to see @7lenny7's race photo!

    General question for the group: Pre-marathon week, do you up your overall calorie intake, or just adjust your percentage of carbs? When do you start shifting your dietary focus and by how much?

    Traditionally, I slowly start ramping my carbs up about 2-3 weeks out because I generally eat pretty low carb and the sudden onslaught of carbs upsets my stomach. I increase my calorie intake by about 200 calories per day starting the Monday before a race. I focus on getting 55-60% of my calories from carbs and I focus on drinking a lot more fruit juices and sports drinks. This formula has worked pretty well for me in the past, but I was just wondering how it compares to what everybody else does.

    Sorry you can't see it. I'll send you a direct message with a link that may work.

    As you know, I only have one marathon to my name BUT....Until I get to my goal weight, I try to eat at a 500 calorie deficit. Two weeks prior to a big race, I eat at maintenance, but don't change my carb percentage (normally 40%). Three to four days days prior to the race I'll start upping the carbs percentage, but not my overall calories. I want to make plenty of carbs available for glycogen, but I no reason to eat more than my body can store. I don't recall what my percentage goes to, but I'd guess 60% or more.

    I think one KEY point to carbo loading is that it's shouldn't a free-for-all, eating donuts and cookies and candy. You want to base your eating on QUALITY carbs, such as whole wheat breads and pastas. Binging on sugar can mess with your hormones from what I understand. I made what I think is a mistake with my marathon and loaded up on any carbs, including sports drink and juice. I overdid the carbo loading and felt like crap the day before my race. I don't know if it affected my time, but I'll do it differently next time.

    I know it's too late for you this time, but if there's any question, carbo-loading is yet another good thing to practice prior to a fueled long run. I've never done it, and won't for my 50k, but it seems like a good idea.

    Like I say, I'm not very experienced on the topic, but those are my thoughts.

  • KatieJane83
    KatieJane83 Posts: 2,002 Member
    @ctlaws44 I'm running my first ever full marathon in November, in Philly, and have also only run 13.1 continuously so far. So, we're not that far off from each other!

    @7lenny7 that pic is amazeballs, just sayin'
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    General question for the group: Pre-marathon week, do you up your overall calorie intake, or just adjust your percentage of carbs? When do you start shifting your dietary focus and by how much?

    Traditionally, I slowly start ramping my carbs up about 2-3 weeks out because I generally eat pretty low carb and the sudden onslaught of carbs upsets my stomach. I increase my calorie intake by about 200 calories per day starting the Monday before a race. I focus on getting 55-60% of my calories from carbs and I focus on drinking a lot more fruit juices and sports drinks. This formula has worked pretty well for me in the past, but I was just wondering how it compares to what everybody else does.

    I've never given it as much thought as you apparently have. By way of background, for five years I've been maintaining my weight to a target of 162 pounds, weighed in my underwear first thing in the morning while dehydrated. The weight goes up and down, but I've managed to stay close to target. At one time I focused on getting 20% of my calories from protein and at least 20% from fat, but over time my thinking has evolved to minimum 150 grams of protein, minimum 62 grams of fat, while letting the carbs take care of themselves. I've never eaten low carb, so I don't have your issues with carb adjustment before the race.

    To maintain weight, I ignore the canned calculations of calories I need and the fictitious calorie burn numbers generated by Garmin. During this marathon training cycle, I had set my base calorie level at 3200 per day, with an adjustment of +100 calories per 5 miles run in a day and +100 for doing speed work that day. Obviously, the adjustments don't capture the full calorie burn of marathon training; part of that is embedded in the base.

    Entering taper, I cut the base to 3100 calories and let the adjustments go down with decreased running. Pre-race, I'll do the pasta dinner and not worry too much about being over calories. The 2-3 days before the marathon, I'll cut down on my normal fiber consumption; since I'll be on the road, this will happen pretty naturally. I just won't be eating as many apples or salads that I fix myself.

    Oddly enough, I've run some of my best races the day after an obviously too large meal out with the running club at a nicer restaurant nicer than I would ever have chosen on my own. *shrug* I might let myself go back for more servings at the pre-race pasta dinner Sunday night.

    Note that everything I do in the way of nutrition is premised from a goal of maintaining weight, not losing. Since the idea is to make the weight trend sideways, I need to eat more when I run more and eat less when I run less. The tricky part is figuring out how much. Canned calculators and exercise calorie burn numbers aren't accurate enough for that, I just have to watch how the scale trends and adjust as needed. During marathon training, I can be a little lax about overindulging on what I eat; in recovery from the marathon, I'll need to be strict about tracking everything again.
  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    edited April 2017
    @Elise4270 -Thanks! I like this forum. I learn a lot from all the experienced runners. Now only if we could have a searchable archive of all this great knowledge!

    @KatieJane83 - K, that works! Are you going to follow a training plan or wing it? My goal is to just finish the damn thing with my body still functioning. :/ Also, stay away from the hobo juice :D
  • KatieJane83
    KatieJane83 Posts: 2,002 Member
    ctlaws44 wrote: »
    @Elise4270 -Thanks! I like this forum. I learn a lot from all the experienced runners. Now only if we could have a searchable archive of all this great knowledge!

    @KatieJane83 - K, that works! Are you going to follow a training plan or wing it? My goal is to just finish the damn thing with my body still functioning. :/

    I very definitely have a plan. Probably an overly ambitious plan, lol. My thought process is: I've never done a full marathon before, and have no idea if it will end up being a 'I've done it once and I'm NEVER doing another one again!' experience, so my goal is to train as well as I possibly can, so I can be as proud as possible of my performance, in case it's my only time doing one.

    I'm following Pete Pfitzinger's plan from his book 'Advanced Marathoning'. I'm also currently using his half marathon plan for my May and June hm's. The marathon plan I'm going to use I've actually created by splitting the difference between his 'Up to 55 Miles per Week' and '55 to 70 Miles per Week' plans, based on where my weekly mileage is going to be coming out of my half marathon training. I'm also making sure that I maintain my weight lifting to help with injury prevention, as I'll be going pretty high mileage.

    Sooo, yeah. Am I crazy? Very probably. Will I survive this plan? Who knows, but hopefully! :D
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    @7lenny7 AWEESOME picture!

    In reply to @girlinahat 1,2,3 method- If you are not used to running 6 days a week and not used to running 2-a-day's; I strongly suggest you work up to it slowly just like you would for increasing any mileage.

    Usually a newbie runner would start off running 3 days a week at equal mileage. The first technique is to increase mileage by either evenly add distance to each 3 of the runs in the same week or adding an amount in a round robin fashion each week. Whatever works. This gives you the chance to get a complete rest day in between each run (and on 1 run you get 2 days break). You get to a certain point where you will add a 4th day which requires you to run 2 days in a row. For this, I would suggest dropping mileage from the run that connects the 2 days in a row so your weekly mileage is relatively close. Then build up weekly mileage across 4 days. Continue this until you feel comfortable running 6 days a week. Then start adding 2-a-day's. Your longest run should be no more than 35% of your weekly mileage.

    Another thing to note with increasing mileage is cutback weeks. I strongly suggest you use cutback (or down) weeks. If you consistently increase your mileage over a number of weeks, pick a week where you actually drop your weekly mileage before you start increasing again. The body needs some extra down time to absorb the training stress that you provide it. It could be every 3 weeks, it could be every 4 weeks. Ryan Hall who holds the current US men's record at the marathon distance took his cutback week every 7 weeks in honor of the Old Testament.

    @lporter229 As far as food consumption going into your marathon. I try and stay right near maintenance levels. If you are cutting calories because you want to reach your target race weight, I strongly suggest you hit your race weight as you begin your taper. Then throughout your taper hit maintenance calorie levels. No need to increase any more. And now is not the time to continue to cut calories. However, as you get closer to the actual race, you change your macros so that you are mostly eating carbs those last 3 days.

    This is what I have been following for my last few marathons.
  • Skipper111
    Skipper111 Posts: 392 Member
    girlinahat wrote: »
    @Skipper111

    I recently came across a method of calculating long runs called something like the 1,2,3 method. It involves 6 days a week, usually done as short, medium, short, medium, short, long, rest.

    The medium runs are twice as long as the short runs, and the long runs three times as long. The rationale is that the long run can never be more than 30% or the weekly total.

    Alternatively, you could take the distance for your long run, and base your other runs round it ensuring the total is 100% and the long run is no more than 30% of that. For me sometimes this means I am running twice in one day to ensure I am covering the mileage during the rest of the week. I'm hoping this will help me as lately I have been overtraining (as pointed out to me from the lovely folks here) and so far I'm feeling a lot better for it.

    Thanks for this suggestion. I gave this a go today. Did a medium run (for me) and tried upping my speed. Rather than running a long distance till I was knackered!!!

    It was also great as my medium distance would have seemed like an impossible task a few months ago but now it's just enjoyable and dare I say relatively easy. Was good to feel so much stronger.

    Thanks so much for the share :-D
  • Skipper111
    Skipper111 Posts: 392 Member
    salijk wrote: »
    Hey is it too late to jump in here? I have started the c25k as I am just back from a years injury and have to take it slow. My challenge is gonna be 15 miles running I now it's low but we are part way through the month and I am a tortoise.

    I started off with C25K and loved it :-)

    Hope it's going well!
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    @lporter229 I'm not sure how low your carbs are today, but my suggestion is based on an assumption that you are 'fat adapted' after eating low carb for at least several weeks. That suggestion is going to be that you do not load carbs at all. The research I've read about fat adapted athletes suggests that we oxidize fat much faster than athletes on a standard high-carb diet. Carb loading will cause problems with that fat adaptation. My personal experience is that it will also cause significant electrolyte issues that can take as much as 2 weeks to resolve. If you are fat adapted, then you should not attempt a carb load before a marathon. It will cause more harm than help. If you are fat adapted, then you are carb sensitive already. Any 'supplementation' of energy... energy you need beyond fat... can be achieved in fairly small doses of carbs (around 5g-10g), but timing is critical (carbs right before or during your runs). Again, based strictly on the research I've read and my own experience... I've not done anything as long as a marathon, though.
  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    @KatieJane - I'm going into it thinking the same. It's a "OK, I did that, but not again" thing for me. I plan to do a HM in September so I hope that at least gets me close to be able to slow run the marathon. I'll be trying to keep up with your mileage the closer it gets to October. I'm no expert on fitness by any measure imaginable but it sounds like you have a good plan. I do weight training to keep myself injury free and it's worked so far.
  • Mari33a
    Mari33a Posts: 1,281 Member
    01/04 4.04 miles
    03/04 3.10 miles
    05/04 3.51 miles
    06/04 4.14 miles
    07/04 3.08 miles
    11/04 3.01 miles



    exercise.png

  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    @7Lenny7- That is a great point about the quality of the carbs. I try to be mindful of the quality of my diet in general, so I limit my sugary treats. The problem I run into with carb loading is that I am gluten-free for medical reasons, which is the only reason why I tend to have a naturally low carb intake. Sometimes the addition of sports drinks and juice are the only way I can really get them. These are things that I rarely consume. Currently I am trying to eat a lot of rice and potatoes.

    @MobyCarp-Dang, that's a lot of calories! As a middle-aged woman woman who weighs 100lbs, I can't even imagine eating that much food, even when I am running higher mileage. I guess maybe that is part of the struggle I have with fitting in the carbs within my calorie allotment and part of the reason why I increase my calorie intake to get the carbs. Otherwise, I would get almost no protein or fat.

    @Stoshew71- I am not trying to lose weight. I have been maintaining the same weight within +/- 3lbs for years. The reason I increase my calorie intake is so that I can make sure I have sufficient carbs. On a normal day, I average about 160g of carbs, but I try to get that up closer to 250 while loading. That's about 360 calories additional from carbs. If I were to stay at the same calorie level, that would mean that I need to decrease my fat intake by 20g and my protein intake by 45g. That would put me at very low protein levels. I could probably stand to cut back on my fat intake, but there is a base level of fats that I get from cooking with olive oil, eating yogurt, etc that would really make that difficult. Like I said above, my normal calorie requirement is considerably less than what you guys would typically consume. With a 35 mile per week average, I consume about 1750 calories per day to maintain my weight. I add about 70 calories per mile over that, so a 50 mile week still only puts me at about 1950 calories per day.

    But the point that all three of you made about not increasing your calorie intake has me thinking that maybe I don't need as many carbs as I am trying to get??
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Something changed within the last week with our security settings at work and I can no longer see photos in posts. I am so bummed because I want to see @7lenny7's race photo!

    General question for the group: Pre-marathon week, do you up your overall calorie intake, or just adjust your percentage of carbs? When do you start shifting your dietary focus and by how much?

    Traditionally, I slowly start ramping my carbs up about 2-3 weeks out because I generally eat pretty low carb and the sudden onslaught of carbs upsets my stomach. I increase my calorie intake by about 200 calories per day starting the Monday before a race. I focus on getting 55-60% of my calories from carbs and I focus on drinking a lot more fruit juices and sports drinks. This formula has worked pretty well for me in the past, but I was just wondering how it compares to what everybody else does.

    The only way I could get my carbs high enough (recommended carbs based on my weight) was to eat more calories. I pretty much ate at maintenance until the 3 days before the marathon. My normal macro goal is 55 to 60% carbs though. ;) Anyway, I think I had to try to eat like 400 to 500 g of carbs the day before the marathon and I was sick of them. I do believe it helped because most everyone was walking after 20 miles, but I was still able to run. Except during my fall of course. My maintenance calories are about 1500 per day, but I felt getting the carbs was more important.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    @midwesterner85 - I just saw your response. I am not sure how "fat adapted" I would be. I wouldn't say that I eat low carb, just probably less than the average endurance athlete. I have carb loaded for my previous 4 marathons and did not have issues. But I am thinking that you may be right in that I do not need to worry about getting in as many carbs as I think I do. I am going to look back at my diary leading up to my previous marathons and I am going to try and mirror what I did then since it seemed to work.

    Thanks for the input!
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