Evil Dairy?
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FreyasRebirth wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »By way of FYI - those that say "dairy doesn't like them" or dairy gives them "xyz" symptoms, that IS a dairy allergy. If dairy produces any sort of negative physical symptom one has an allergy to it. Nonetheless, I still consider it the perfect food and hate not having it. Like one other poster said, it's in everything and alternatives are expensive.
Actually, not. An allergy is an immune response to a protein. Intolerances can cause you to poorly digest different things (like lactose) but don't actually involve the immune system. If you get bad gas, that is probably an intolerance. If you get hives, that is an allergy.
An "intolerance" causes an inflammatory response to something your body does not do well with. Eventually continuing to give your body something it is "intolerant" to leads to allergic reactions (an immune response) like hives in the long term. It may take awhile, but eventually the body will scream "uncle" and have a technical immune response. It's easier to heal the gut when it's in a state of "intolerance" then when it's a full on allergy (which takes YEARS of work to fix). So whether an "intolerance" becomes a full on allergy will 100% depend on if someone chooses to avoid dairy in that stage and works to heal their gut or decides they will still eat it and deal with the consequences.
One might get "gas" from dairy, but what you cannot see is all of the internal physical inflammation that happens as a result of giving your body something it doesn't do well with. If one pushes the body long enough, internal inflammation will eventually either turn the body against itself (autoimmune) or become an outward immune response with physical reactions (hives, rashes, etc). We have BTDT with both of these issues over dairy in our home. Doctors we have dealt with that deal with severe food allergies consider an "intolerance" an allergy because of the propensity for them to become full out immune reactions more often then not. That may be their way to get someone to stop eating something the doctor sees as bad for them in the long run but that doesn't change them calling an "intolerance" an allergy. And I'm sure asking ten doctors about this you will get ten different opinions.
Bottom line? Dairy is not evil and if some people have to avoid it that doesn't mean everyone should.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »FreyasRebirth wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »By way of FYI - those that say "dairy doesn't like them" or dairy gives them "xyz" symptoms, that IS a dairy allergy. If dairy produces any sort of negative physical symptom one has an allergy to it. Nonetheless, I still consider it the perfect food and hate not having it. Like one other poster said, it's in everything and alternatives are expensive.
Actually, not. An allergy is an immune response to a protein. Intolerances can cause you to poorly digest different things (like lactose) but don't actually involve the immune system. If you get bad gas, that is probably an intolerance. If you get hives, that is an allergy.
An "intolerance" causes an inflammatory response to something your body does not do well with. Eventually continuing to give your body something it is "intolerant" to leads to allergic reactions (an immune response) like hives in the long term. It may take awhile, but eventually the body will scream "uncle" and have a technical immune response. It's easier to heal the gut when it's in a state of "intolerance" then when it's a full on allergy (which takes YEARS of work to fix). So whether an "intolerance" becomes a full on allergy will 100% depend on if someone chooses to avoid dairy in that stage and works to heal their gut or decides they will still eat it and deal with the consequences.
One might get "gas" from dairy, but what you cannot see is all of the internal physical inflammation that happens as a result of giving your body something it doesn't do well with. If one pushes the body long enough, internal inflammation will eventually either turn the body against itself (autoimmune) or become an outward immune response with physical reactions (hives, rashes, etc). We have BTDT with both of these issues over dairy in our home. Doctors we have dealt with that deal with severe food allergies consider an "intolerance" an allergy because of the propensity for them to become full out immune reactions more often then not. That may be their way to get someone to stop eating something the doctor sees as bad for them in the long run but that doesn't change them calling an "intolerance" an allergy. And I'm sure asking ten doctors about this you will get ten different opinions.
Bottom line? Dairy is not evil and if some people have to avoid it that doesn't mean everyone should.
Any evidence to back any of this up? Never have I heard that an intolerance will lead to an allergy. An intolerance affects the digestive system, an allergy the immune system. The two are actually unrelated.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »My general feeling is that if someone is labeling a food group, food, or ingredient "evil" that says more about them than the substance itself. Some people have a need to demonize certain things in order to create a moral justification to avoid things that are otherwise harmless to them. This is all the more reason, IMO, to find ways to continue consuming it if you enjoy it, and achieve goals in spite of their suggestion of the nefarious nature of the substance...
I can't like this enough. You see it so often amoungst those that eliminate foods for non medical reasons. Those that demonise fruit for example are doing so not because there is any evidence that fruit is bad for you (outside of medical reasons) but because it is the only way they can justify eliminating it to maintain their low carb diet. It is ironic though that these same people eat copious amounts of bacon and saturated fats from animal products which have been shown to be bad for your health.
You see it moreso with some vegans and their attitude towards meat and dairy. They need to go that extra step from not eating these foods for ethical reasons to trying to convince us that these foods are bad for us.2 -
Milk and whey protein make me bloat up a pant size or two. That's kind of evil. And it's pretty uncomfortable. There's really nothing in milk that I can't get nutritionally from other sources, so I don't use it. It's kinda gross (IMO) anyway, so no loss.
I can handle aged cheeses in small amounts, though. And cheese is pretty amazing...1 -
FreyasRebirth wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »By way of FYI - those that say "dairy doesn't like them" or dairy gives them "xyz" symptoms, that IS a dairy allergy. If dairy produces any sort of negative physical symptom one has an allergy to it. Nonetheless, I still consider it the perfect food and hate not having it. Like one other poster said, it's in everything and alternatives are expensive.
Actually, not. An allergy is an immune response to a protein. Intolerances can cause you to poorly digest different things (like lactose) but don't actually involve the immune system. If you get bad gas, that is probably an intolerance. If you get hives, that is an allergy.
Agreed.1 -
amorfati601070 wrote: »Well the dairy industry can be horrific in terms of how the cows are treated. Raping cows so they produce milk..yeah that's evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI
Some will call that video "propaganda" others will call it reality, people don't like it when they are confronted with the truth, and something that challenges their way of living. I'm sure not all dairy farms are like this but for mass production and to cope with supply and demand and keep prices low... a lot, if not the majority are. I'm more concerned about the environmental concerns associated with dairy and livestock. The world would be a better place without out it.
It is propaganda in that it shows the worst of the worst (and often even embelleshing that to make it look worse still) and make it look like the norm.
Like showing a video of police brutality and pretending every single policeman is like that.
Also I'd be very careful with calling inseminating cows "rape".11 -
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i can't imagine a life without dairy. it would be so sad. The only bad thing for me is milk,and that's because i'm lactose intolerant. I still consume dairy every day (and lactose free milk), and lost 44kgs doing that.1
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »My general feeling is that if someone is labeling a food group, food, or ingredient "evil" that says more about them than the substance itself. Some people have a need to demonize certain things in order to create a moral justification to avoid things that are otherwise harmless to them. This is all the more reason, IMO, to find ways to continue consuming it if you enjoy it, and achieve goals in spite of their suggestion of the nefarious nature of the substance...
I can't like this enough. You see it so often amoungst those that eliminate foods for non medical reasons. Those that demonise fruit for example are doing so not because there is any evidence that fruit is bad for you (outside of medical reasons) but because it is the only way they can justify eliminating it to maintain their low carb diet. It is ironic though that these same people eat copious amounts of bacon and saturated fats from animal products which have been shown to be bad for your health.
You see it moreso with some vegans and their attitude towards meat and dairy. They need to go that extra step from not eating these foods for ethical reasons to trying to convince us that these foods are bad for us.WinoGelato wrote: »My general feeling is that if someone is labeling a food group, food, or ingredient "evil" that says more about them than the substance itself. Some people have a need to demonize certain things in order to create a moral justification to avoid things that are otherwise harmless to them. This is all the more reason, IMO, to find ways to continue consuming it if you enjoy it, and achieve goals in spite of their suggestion of the nefarious nature of the substance...
Exactly. This has always been my stance on the whole thing. I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!2 -
I cut out all dairy. Uh...well except cheese..but..LOL
Gotta have some extra sharp cheddar or pepper jack from time to time *GRIN*1 -
...I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.5 -
I call them the dairy gestapo. . . .cwolfman13 wrote: »The only people I've really heard say to cut out dairy are vegans...and vegan propaganda sites often describe it as evil.
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Godwin's law has been invoked! Drink! (milk or booze, your choice)2
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Some people have a sensitivity to it without realizing. I used to have dairy everyday but I found about a year ago that I was allergic and started cutting it out and feel great! But that's only if you know you have a sensitivity to it.1
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Now that I think of it, does Bailey's count as dairy?
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I call them the dairy gestapo. . . .cwolfman13 wrote: »The only people I've really heard say to cut out dairy are vegans...and vegan propaganda sites often describe it as evil.
I think "Gestapo" is a really strong term. Using it for people who are trying to spread veganism, even if they are hyperbolic, doesn't sit right with me.
Of course, I'm not the one using the term. It doesn't have to sit right with me.2 -
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Regarding cats, I've heard that a lot of them are actually lactose intolerant. That said, one of my cats loooves dairy. If I'm eating yogurt he will grab my hand and try to get to the spoon. (The other cat doesn't care about dairy.)
Dairy is perfectly healthy. Some people do have ethical problems with it; a lot of vegans don't eat it because the male calves are turned into veal, so it indirectly "produces" a meat, so to speak. Personally I try to buy pasture-raised milk / cheese because being cooped up in a building your entire life just seems terrible. (I am not a vegan / vegetarian.)1 -
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BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Regarding cats, I've heard that a lot of them are actually lactose intolerant. That said, one of my cats loooves dairy. If I'm eating yogurt he will grab my hand and try to get to the spoon. (The other cat doesn't care about dairy.)
Dairy is perfectly healthy. Some people do have ethical problems with it; a lot of vegans don't eat it because the male calves are turned into veal, so it indirectly "produces" a meat, so to speak. Personally I try to buy pasture-raised milk / cheese because being cooped up in a building your entire life just seems terrible. (I am not a vegan / vegetarian.)
Another issue for vegans is that many cows used for dairy are slaughtered when they are no longer at peak production and the quality of life for those cows when they are engaged in milk production.2
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