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Martial Arts and "chi"
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The "black belt is a dirty, old white belt" era was a long time ago in if it was ever more than myth. Practically speaking, it all sounds very fanciful, because such belts would smell .cushman5279 wrote: »Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
What martial arts do you practice? Obviously none, or not for very long if you think the stripe, rank or belt system is BS.
Do you know the history of belts or stripes? And yes I started studying at a young age and stripes were never part of it. You did not need to earn 3 stripes before going to the next belt. Crap like that is driven by money. And belts were originally used to hold up your pants. Your white belt turned black over time.
In modern times, I once turned a part of a white belt yellow with sweat after a hard week's training in high summer. Yeuch! Believe me, it was noxious. After that, it went straight in the wash with my gi every night.
Granted, past martial artists may not have had washing machines, but they had a sense of smell, and would have subjected their belts to the same cleaning process as they did their trousers. If trousers and jackets could be kept white and unsmelly, then belts would have been a doddle.
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
So you are saying keep the student engaged so they stay (money)
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
So you are saying keep the student engaged so they stay (money)
Do you leave your dojo after getting the black belt and stop practicing?0 -
Yep. Do you have a problem with instructors realising you can't break even from four regular students?HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
So you are saying keep the student engaged so they stay (money)
For that matter, do you have similar objections to music exams and graded swimming classes?
There are also practical benefits to colour belt systems: you can look at a class and know at a glance how much experience everyone attending tonight has and make judgement calls for your next demo.
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
So you are saying keep the student engaged so they stay (money)
I'm glad my physician had to earn certain grades to continue with his education. Wouldn't that be the same at least in principal?
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leanjogreen18 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
So you are saying keep the student engaged so they stay (money)
I'm glad my physician had to earn certain grades to continue with his education. Wouldn't that be the same at least in principal?
In principle, yes, but medical schools want you to graduate. Martial arts schools... not necessarily. Some are genuinely interested in doing a good job teaching. Others are in the business of selling colored belts, and would like to sell as many as possible. Often, there's also an escalating fee scale depending on your belt color.0 -
Maybe. Jui Jitsu is basically full combat training for this discipline. If you don't master certain techniques, you don't get the promotion. And while I'm not in exactly the same kind of business, if I kept clients longer, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm making more money unless I free up more time to train new clients.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
I don't think that the earned merits on the belt system are totally money driven. It's an actual honor and meaning having a black belt in jui jitsu.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Ironically, my DD is getting her yellow belt tomorrow in karate. And I have to pay for the promotion. At least they aren't teaching her "chi" knockouts.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 2 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
Yeah - McDojos. I was originally going to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that's where he was going with this - just because you have a [insert color here] belt, doesn't necessarily mean you're really a [previous color] belt. Alas, nah.
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I've learned to ask a few simple questions to measure the quality of a dojo. First is the teaching line. If this is not stressed this is a warning sign of a McDojo. Second is the training track. One dojo in our area guarantees a black belt in 3 years. They have loads of students proudly displaying these, but our green belts show greater mastery by comparison. Third is a link to the philosophical aspect of martial science - the only rationale to mastering violence is to abolish it.1
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I love it.HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Only if the students don't drop out.Chi is complete BS. Learning to accept/ignore or inflict more pain is not a special power. Acquired skill? Absolutely.
Earning stripes on belts is complete BS too. Well so are belts for that matter.
Well, I've been around a lot of jui jitsu dojos and it takes a lot of work to earn a belt promotion. And that promotion doesn't come from katas. You flat out have to prove against a black belt that you have mastered certain techniques before even being considered.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My comment has nothing to due with the time it takes an individual to earn a black belt or the commitment involved. Stripes are about money. The longer it takes to earn a black belt the more money the dojo receives.
An unusual criticism, tbh. Normally I encounter claims that schools grant black belts too early in order to maintain student retention!
Stripes are about breaking down the years of work required into small, achievable targets, I think. Is the word "mini-goal"?
Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt before you can get a coloured belt? Scary. Working your kitten off for six months as a white belt and having tags added to your belt twice before finally getting a new belt? Achievable.
Yeah - McDojos. I was originally going to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that's where he was going with this - just because you have a [insert color here] belt, doesn't necessarily mean you're really a [previous color] belt. Alas, nah.
Increase revenues by delaying grading! What a different society we would live in if any dojo could rely on people just accepting the instructor's word and patiently plodding on with for another couple of years as they were asked, while paying fees, without getting bored and frustrated and quitting.
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I studied Chinese martial arts (kung fu) semi-seriously for a number of years. Even as a skeptic of woo, I never had any difficulty in seeing chi as a metaphor, or as an abstaction used to describe or categorize physical phenomena.5
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Be honest here: have you ever had to put your skill to the test in a real fight? I did a few times as a kid and let's say it was kinda of awkward because I was expecting it to really work. Both fights went to the ground pretty quick and I was a decent wrestler so I succeeded.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
Be honest here: have you ever had to put your skill to the test in a real fight? I did a few times as a kid and let's say it was kinda of awkward because I was expecting it to really work. Both fights went to the ground pretty quick and I was a decent wrestler so I succeeded.
Haha. Nope, but I was about 42 when I got my black belt, so having to use any martial skills in a brawl is certainly statistically low for a middle-aged woman.
Michelle Yeoh I am not.
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I practice tae kwon do and there is no "chi" only momentum. Some forms of TKD use sin wave patterns for momentum. Otherwise I think the idea of chi is specific to certain martial arts.
In defense of people lambasting "McDojos" you gotta understand these places make money primarily as professional babysitters, it can't be helped. Like with anything you will get out what you put in at most places. Dojos/Dojangs aren't guaranteeing a blackbelt in 4 years because they're a rip off, they're doing it because that is the current business model. They have to feed their families. This is how they get kids to sign 4 year contracts.
So again, as an adult, you will get out what you put in. (That goes for kids too if they are driven, kids who put in the effort always receive better training). 4 years is a significant amount of time, similar to getting a bachelors degree. Some arts take longer to achieve black belt status, because they are different arts, different schools, and usually oversaw by different governing bodies.2 -
as a boxer and muay thai fighter and cage fighter I use my skills when I have to but thi chi is good for inner health0
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Think you could take Jake Mace:as a boxer and muay thai fighter and cage fighter I use my skills when I have to but thi chi is good for inner health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZF7vJfsshQ
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Geocitiesuser wrote: »I practice tae kwon do and there is no "chi" only momentum. Some forms of TKD use sin wave patterns for momentum. Otherwise I think the idea of chi is specific to certain martial arts.
In defense of people lambasting "McDojos" you gotta understand these places make money primarily as professional babysitters, it can't be helped. Like with anything you will get out what you put in at most places. Dojos/Dojangs aren't guaranteeing a blackbelt in 4 years because they're a rip off, they're doing it because that is the current business model. They have to feed their families. This is how they get kids to sign 4 year contracts.
So again, as an adult, you will get out what you put in. (That goes for kids too if they are driven, kids who put in the effort always receive better training). 4 years is a significant amount of time, similar to getting a bachelors degree. Some arts take longer to achieve black belt status, because they are different arts, different schools, and usually oversaw by different governing bodies.
Isn't there rules about that though? I know in Germany we have big associations for every major martial art, making it so you can only take a promotion exam every 6 months. 4 years of perfectly acing every exam would get me to 2nd Dan in Kendo but that's unrealistic to achieve, even our sensei is only 1st Kyu.1 -
i am a certified boxing coach and I teach aerobics classes and a certified massage therapist0
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Be honest here: have you ever had to put your skill to the test in a real fight? I did a few times as a kid and let's say it was kinda of awkward because I was expecting it to really work. Both fights went to the ground pretty quick and I was a decent wrestler so I succeeded.
I've had to dabble in my skills a handful of rare times when I used to bartend, and I needed to keep control on someone. Also once (while I was out) when a drunk guy was being super obnoxious saying I can't submit him. lol But lately no.1
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