May 2017 Running Challenge

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Replies

  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    @MobyCarp - I took note of the alternate HR zones you gave and just calculated those. I came out with these. Very interesting.

    Z1 - 119 to 132
    Z2 - 132 to 145
    Z3 - 145 to 158
    Z4 - 158 to 172
    Z5 - 172 to 185

    These are very interesting as 132 is very close to the 130 transition point I use differentiating a long run from an easy run. The 145 seems pretty good too as this is about when I start looking at my watch to see if I have hit the 149 target I have been using. So that particular effort is another step for sure. The 158 transition is also a little interesting, but I am surprised to see 172. Wow. I can honestly say I've only ever run in that Z4 range during a 5k.

    Right now I am doing my long runs as Z2 runs basically, with just a little bit over and under that range on both sides. Average HR on long run effort is 139, pretty much right in the middle of that zone.

    My easy runs are currently Z1 through Z2, with the average HR being 135, just barely into Z2.

    I'll have to Google the Karvonnen method to learn some more about it. I'm a little curious how much of a variance this is, and how I would be planning my runs using it at the moment. Having more data with value is always a good thing.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited May 2017
    @MobyCarp - I made another reply to your post but it needs approval, I must have had one of those magic numbers in it. :smile: Ah yes, the one, one, nine number is in there.

    ETA: Suffice it to say, I find the new numbers interesting. However, the Z2 high end number is a couple lower than what I have been running at...which was probably unexpected. From what I am reading this usually benefits most runners by allowing them to go at slightly higher efforts in the lower zones. It DOES have a larger number for the Z2 low end number by 2 points...so I can make a greater impact on my long runs. I'm still pretty fascinated by the Z3 and Z4 numbers I came up with...

    Thanks for the added perspective! I think this will help with planning Wednesday's run, particularly these Z3 numbers. I may have been planning too hard an effort for the tempo run. I'm going to bang this up against the McMillan stuff also. I recall in the past that the McMillan stuff worked well for me in the past on the stamina runs, tempo and even intervals. I'm not sure why I hadn't looked there yet...but now that I am thinking about it... :smile:

    Thanks again!
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @RespectTheKitty you have plenty of time and, yes you can do it on a capped 10 mile LR in training. I say go for it. You have the time, and a coming race is a great motivator
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    I'm really struggling with the higher temperatures, so pace was not good. Still got 5.28 miles in with run/walk.

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  • 9voice9
    9voice9 Posts: 693 Member
    edited May 2017
    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    On the downside...my race day photos this year are gawd awful!!! :grimace::grimace::grimace: BURN THEM!!! So much pooch. :grimace: And the moobs! :grimace::grimace::grimace:
    Preach it, brother, PREACH! I have YET to find a race photo that I like. Tho TBH, I have not found many pictures in my entire life that I like. Most of them have had someone else in 'em. Like SWMBO, or my sons.... :wink:

    But yeah, I hate race pics. I'm usually scowling, or else I have this goofy expression with thumbs up (GOTTA find a better pose!), and I have NEVER had one where they caught me with both feet off the ground. In fact, they're usually BOTH feet on the ground.
  • HonuNui
    HonuNui Posts: 1,464 Member
    May goal: wear sunblock

    5/1: sat on my okole. All. Day. Long.
    5/2: 3.13
    5/3: 6.06
    5/4: 4.08
    5/5 rest
    5/6: 4.15
    5/7 3.56
    5/8 snorkel 3.5 hours
    5/9 4.58
    5/10 3.38
    5/11 rest
    5/12 3.25
    5/13 life
    5/14 6.40
    5/15 4.13


    Total: 42.72


    Ticker is my goal for 2017 and progress to date:
    exercise.png

    upcoming races:
    Volcano Rainforest Runs 10k 8/19
    BlockThe Sun Run 5k Oct 14 (https://walk.aimatmelanoma.org/Hilo2017) (physical and virtual options available)
  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
    Gearing up for RDM had taught me that taper is not for my temperament- pray for my husband, haha! Not 100% if I will be able to check in again until after the marathon as we are tenting out that way for the long weekend with the kids. I hope everyone has a lovely week/racing weekend!

    May 1- Rest
    May 2- 14.2
    May 3- Rest
    May 4- 14.5
    May 5- 18.8
    May 6- 8
    May 7- 23.3
    May 8-Rest
    May 9- 15.7
    May 10- Rest
    May 11- 15.7
    May 12- Rest
    May 13- 15.7
    May 14- Rest
    May 15- 11

    136.9/300km


  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    @PinkamenaD8

    It's actualy a recovery run, following a long run which is not slow (usually long runs are slow runs). Because I mostly run on asphalt and my legs feel stiffen, I do my recovery runs on grassy ground having an easy pace.
  • amc2509
    amc2509 Posts: 219 Member
    Going to shoot for daily short runs this week...


    3/5/17 4.7K
    6/5/17 5K
    9/5/17 2.7K
    10/5/17 5.1K
    13/5/17 5K
    15/5/17 3K (TOTAL for May 25.5K)

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  • SweetSassyJen
    SweetSassyJen Posts: 129 Member
    May goal: 50 miles
    May 16: 3.59 miles
    May total: 32.32 miles
  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    @MNLittleFinn Thanks but any other distance and you’d be lapping me.

    @MobyCarp Thanks for reminding me I need to have more picture runs where I just relax and take in the scenery.

    @9voice9 Congrats on first in your AG!

    @juliet3455 Great finishing push and AG place and PB!

    @ louubelle16 Thank you! I know I can run a sub 20 5K but the hotter it gets the less likely it will happen. It might have to wait till the fall.

    @carolineb81 Great job doing hills. I think it’s one of the best workouts for runners. That and yoga.

    @ddmom0811 Thanks! I’m never taking it (Cipro) after all the stories I’ve heard.

    @kristinegift Glad your back is feeling better and you were able to run your HM. Also good job on knowing your body and holding back.

    @garygse Thanks Gary. Your mileage and pace are impressive! I wish I could run distance. I’m 90% certain you don’t own a vehicle and you just run everywhere. LOL!

    @WhatMeRunning I always like reading yours and @MobyCarp run analysis. I may not understand half of it but I always come away learning a little something and thinking about it during my runs. Like the whole thing about HR I don’t get. Is it to optimize your workout so that you don’t feel bad the next day or an early warning you’re going to start fatiguing? In my uneducated opinion, I think it would be good to push your heart like you do any other muscle to make it stronger. Sorry for my ignorance. I guess I should really read some theories on running.

    @RespectTheKitty You’re going to do great! You’ve got a good base for being able to complete a HM. Like the others have said, when you hit a plateau (10 mi) you might have to change something. I hit a pace plateau a year ago. I couldn’t physically get past 9:00/mile. After talking with and watching faster runners. I shortened my stride and increased my cadence. I also started doing yoga. These made all the difference. I still have to remind myself about over striding or reaching with my feet. Maybe including some strength and stability training. Us runners have notoriously weak hips. I know once I lose the roll in my hips, my legs will soon tire and then I will try to run more with my arms.

    I ran the Yorktown hills yesterday. Sunny and 72F. Only one other person showed up, George. He’s been on a couple week break so we took it pretty easy. He’s done 28 Marathons, 5 50 milers, a couple Ultras, and several 24hr runs so it was nice talking with him and taking in some knowledge. We ran 4.5 then I ran a little more after. George knew some of the cyclist riding around down there and we challenged them to race up a couple of the hills. That made it fun to pass a cyclist.

    Hope everyone is having a great day and have a good run or rest day. Today’s a rest day for me. Tomorrow’s the Onion and WSG run and it’s supposed to be 94F!
  • ddmom0811
    ddmom0811 Posts: 1,881 Member
    @WhatMeRunning - you are cracking me up this morning between your spider web runs and your race photos. In the old days, when you would take a roll of film to the drug store, then pick it up days later, or an hour later, my husband and I would go through and throw away any pictures of ourselves we hated. Now with phone photos we do the same thing - delete that! But those race photos seem to be there forever. After being told several times that my race photos would be deleted (yes, please!) if I don't buy them, on Mother's day got an email that I can still buy them at a discount for Mother's Day. I didn't want them then and I don't now. A smart photographer would take the pics and then send us emails that we must send money to delete the pictures. I'd pay! lol
    Even though I'm not on a trail and just in my neighborhood I sometimes come across those morning spider webs and I freak out and am flailing my arms around.

    Another slow 4 miles this morning to make sure I don't tear any ligaments on the cipro. I'm probably being over cautious but it's okay, I can use a week or so of slow running. Next weekend I'll be in cooler temps and can speed it up!

    5/1 - 4 miles + strength training
    5/2 - 3.5 miles
    5/3 - 21 miles cycling
    5/4 - 5 miles + strength training
    5/5 - rest day
    5/6 - 34 miles cycling
    5/7 - 43 miles cycling
    5/8 - 4.6 miles + strength training
    5/9 - rest day
    5/10 - 4.5 miles + cycling 21 miles
    5/11 - strength training
    5/12 - 4.6 miles
    5/13 - 34 miles cycling
    5/14 - rest day
    5/15 - 3.8 miles + upper body strength training
    5/16 - 4 miles



    exercise.png
  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
    @ctlaws44 Hehe, it would be awesome if I did run everywhere, though doing the weekly shopping trips would be a bit tough, lol.


    Still in cutback week, so today was nothing special other than running easy with the group, and then a quick final lap to get back to the office.

    01 - 13.50
    02 - 10.58
    03 - 13.49
    04 - 9.80
    05 - 20.14
    08 - 12.99
    09 - 9.77
    10 - 13.42
    11 - 5.69
    12 - 20.28
    15 - 6.01
    16 - 8.04

    Total: 143.71 / 225 miles
  • louubelle16
    louubelle16 Posts: 579 Member
    @RespectTheKitty You can DEFINITELY do a HM! I had that same 10mile barrier when I first ran one in 2014, but the adrenaline of the event gets you round the entire distance. Yes, what others have said about strengthening your core, using a sensible training programme and getting your fuelling right will help, but the crowds and the emotion of the achievement will do more for you on the day. Go for it!

    Until today, I had been really enjoying the reduced mileage and cross-training plan I've put myself on following marathon training and injury, but today I had one of those runs that I didn't want to end and I hated having to go home after 3 miles. My legs finally feel like mine again after months of struggling, and I want to use them! I guess this means I'm ready to start base building again, maybe I'll start next week. Another easy week won't hurt.

    May Running Challenge

    1st - 3.55 miles
    2nd - 1.1 miles +Spin
    3rd - 6.19 miles
    6th - 3.1 miles
    8th - 1 mile +Spin
    9th - 3.66 miles +Yoga
    10th - 3.12 miles
    14th - 0.61 miles (WU) + 6.2miles (race)
    16th - 3.32 miles +Yoga

    MTD - 31.85/60 miles

    Upcoming Races
    25th June - Greenwich Park 10km
    22nd July - Richmond Riverside 10km
    15th October - Manchester HM
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    ctlaws44 wrote: »
    @WhatMeRunning I always like reading yours and @MobyCarp run analysis. I may not understand half of it but I always come away learning a little something and thinking about it during my runs. Like the whole thing about HR I don’t get. Is it to optimize your workout so that you don’t feel bad the next day or an early warning you’re going to start fatiguing? In my uneducated opinion, I think it would be good to push your heart like you do any other muscle to make it stronger. Sorry for my ignorance. I guess I should really read some theories on running.

    @ctlaws44 - From a cardio development perspective, it's not good to push to the maximum all the time. Training in different heart rate zones had different cardio benefits, and you want to get some of all of those benefits. The best non-technical description I've found for that is in an article I've linked before, Train Slower to Race Faster.

    From a personal perspective, I don't think about the cardio implications much. On a day to day basis, I'm more concerned with injury prevention. But the answer for injury prevention is also not to always be pushing hard, and any well designed training plan has both injury prevention and the cardio training built into the plan. I'm typically following a plan that requires quality workouts to be done at target paces for endurance and cardio benefits, but the majority of the miles to be run easy for injury prevention and different cardio benefits. For me, watching to be sure that the heart rate stays in the lower zones is mostly a surrogate for being sure I'm not beating too hard on my legs and feet all the time.

    That having been said, I get a cardio benefit even when I'm thinking of the training in terms of injury prevention. In 2016, I went through my first marathon training cycle with a well developed, structured plan. At the end of that training cycle, my easy pace was 15 seconds faster per mile than it was at the beginning. In 2017, there wasn't as much benefit to gain; but I still finished the Boston training cycle with an easy pace perhaps 5 seconds per mile faster than a year earlier.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    @Orphia I sent you a FB request :smile:

    I think we should make a Facebook page for this group! @Stoshew71 what do you think?

    If someone wants to start a FB group, send me the link to join. I don't feel motivated enough to start it myself.

  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    5/1 - 5 miles
    5/2 - 5 miles
    5/3 - 3 miles
    5/4 - rest day
    5/5 - 2 miles
    5/6 - 5 miles - Steeple Chase 8K
    5/7 - rest day
    5/8 - 5 miles
    5/9 - 3 miles
    5/10 - rest day
    5/11 - 5 miles
    5/12 - 3 miles
    5/13 - 4 miles - Technicolor 5K and cool down
    5/14 - Mother's day and this Mother didn't run :wink:
    5/15 - 2 miles now this Mother was sorry she didn't run yesterday because this run was *kitten*
    5/16 - 6 miles

    48 of 60 miles

    exercise.png

    Races:

    5/6 - Steeple Chase 8K - 3 in AG
    5/13 - Technicolor 5K - 1 in AG
    5/29 - Cotton Row 10K
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited May 2017
    @ddmom0811 I get the same emails. Don't they understand most of us are running to improve our appearance and never want to see those photos again? I always look like a dude with @WhatMeRunning 's moobs. Maybe it's because my brother and I look alike and that's what I'm seeing.... But I hate it.

    The scale says ​I didn't gain but didn't lose on the trip. Of course, the 2 giant cinnabon's I ate once home, haven't gotten to thier final destinations yet. Total win.

    What I learned on this last trip:
    1. If you let housekeeping in each day your trash never overflows and you don't think they are coffee Nazis.
    2. I'm allergic to Oklahoma. Must move to GA. Thier food is better too.
    3. I don't get creeped out by ghost stories or even if​ I catch a photo of one. Eh...
    4. Someone is a terrible travel companion
    5. McDonough GA has the best coffee in the world.
    6. Use your sun block beach running. Preferably the kind with color so you don't miss the back of one arm.
    7. I need more stairs in my life. Gah! Was sore for 3 days after climbing the light house with wobbly legs.
    8. And Because this is a running thread- run out of state, it's awesome.
    9. It's a bad idea to get running shoes wet. PU.
    ETA and everybody's water is better than ours. No gator skin in Georgia.
  • juliet3455
    juliet3455 Posts: 3,015 Member
    @Bakins929 AWW the smell of new shoes, now go get them Dirty and trash them >:)

    @WhatMeRunning and @MobyCarp Great Heart rate discussion, I will have to have a better look at my settings. Thanks for the reminder that we all should take the time on our LSD runs to stop and take in the scenery we are surrounded by.

    @RespectTheKitty You definitely can do a HM, like others have suggested a training plan from a sponsoring store, a little Physiotherapy and strength training will break through the 10 mile wall. Maybe leave the GPS Device at home and wear a plain old Digital Watch and run for time ie avg 10 mile time + 5>10 minutes.

    @kristinegift Glad your Spine is feeling better and survived your HM run. Take care girl - we like you and hate to see you hurtin

    @ctlaws44 I agree that hills are one of the best workouts for runners. Especially if you can pass a biker.
    When I hit my pace plateau a local BQ runner dragged me out to the local track and introduced me to 400m/800m speed sessions. Like you I shortened my stride and increased my cadence. Really had to concentrate on my cadence which seemed to naturally shorten my stride.

    @ddmom0811 That would be called Ransom Ware photography
  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    5/1 - 4.6 run + 4.8 walk
    5/2 - 1.0 run + 7.1 walk
    5/3 - 5.1 run + 3.9 walk
    5/4 - 0.0 run + 5.1 walk
    5/5 - 5.2 run + 4.8 walk
    5/6 - 5.1 run + 1.8 walk
    5/7 - 0.5 run + 5.6 walk
    5/8 - 5.1 run + 3.8 walk
    5/9 - 0.0 run + 5.8 walk
    5/10 - 4.6 run + 5.9 walk
    5/11 - 5.0 run + 5.5 walk
    5/12 - 0.0 run + 5.5 walk
    5/13 - 6.2 run + 0.0 walk
    5/14 - Rest
    5/15 - 4.5 run + 5.0 walk
    5/16 - 5.3 run + TBD

    Totals so far - 52.2 run + 64.6 walk = 116.8 miles

    Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement about the HM! I do think I can do it if I really train well for it. I just don't want to re-injure my hip, or give myself some different kind of injury. I think my best bet at this stage of my running career is to concentrate on slow, easy miles for the long runs. I don't need to be trying to break any speed records this time out. My goal will be to just finish the race.

    Today's run was a bit easier than yesterday's. I tried eating a Clif bar ahead of the run for a little bit of energy, and it seemed to help, and no stomach issues (except for a little breaking of the wind). I was still disappointed in my overall pace, however, but on the last mile I was able to sustain a 9:50 pace for at least 3/4 of that mile and finished out the mile with a 10:08. So it isn't impossible to run tempo early in the morning, just takes some extra effort. And 9:50 seems to be a really good tempo pace for me to work on, when I'm not concentrating on long, slow miles.

    Good god I'm tired.
  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    edited May 2017
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    @Orphia I sent you a FB request :smile:

    I think we should make a Facebook page for this group! @Stoshew71 what do you think?

    If someone wants to start a FB group, send me the link to join. I don't feel motivated enough to start it myself.

    I'd be willing to start a group. But let's first see how many people would join. Show of hands, how many people here would like to see a Facebook group for the MRC? I'll post this in the MRC Group too.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited May 2017
    @ctlaws44 - That is quite a large subject about using target HR's for specific training runs, made even bigger by incorporating into a structured training plan. Part of it is what you suspect about avoiding fatigue, another part exactly matches your opinion about improving your cardio fitness. The key is doing it right, and not doing too much at any time, or slouching into a routine that winds up yielding diminishing returns.

    For example, I am pretty much getting my maximum returns possible as far as limiting myself to only endurance workouts. If I keep adding mileage the only thing I am doing is increasing risk of injury, and not gaining any more physiological benefits than if I stayed at the same mileage. There is a saying I heard once, "If things aren't working, change what you're doing". So, since continuing at my current capabilities at more and more mileage is not giving me any real benefit other than higher risk of injury, I should change what I'm doing. What I decided to do is maintain my current mileage and instead of adding the stress of more miles, I add the stress of higher effort during some of my miles. Thus the tempo intervals and tempo runs during my mid-week long(ish) runs.

    Another link to go along with what @MobyCarp provided that I found helpful was this article on the McMillan Running site. You have to take in the whole 6 steps, and for me I had to reread it again afterwards (probably read 3 times) before things started coming together in seeing how these things can work together. There are many different types of training guides out there, this is just one of many. But the info here is pure gold in my opinion.
    https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillans-six-step-training-system/

    For the most part, I never do the Speed or Sprint workouts. I did a session with Speed workouts last year during a low mileage cycle when starting a new training period, and I think it was magic. But if you are trying to run long distances, I think it is pretty risky to try and add Speed workouts unless you have really built up some endurance, strength and stamina first, as in maybe a year or more of that sort of training (totally unprofessional and uneducated opinion there).

    The Stamina workouts are key though one you built up a solid base of endurance and mileage. They will help to make you faster, but a surprising thing they provide is endurance. One way to look at it is...if you wish to go faster, do endurance runs. If You wish to run farther, do some stamina runs. That is not speaking in absolutes, stamina runs will also help make you faster, and endurance runs also help you run further. But the change in routine is what triggers your body to respond and adapt.

    Crap, this is way too long. Sorry!
  • springtimez
    springtimez Posts: 51 Member
    05/03-- 2, 05/05--2, 05/07--3, 05/08--3, 05/09--4, 05/10--4, 05/11-- Rest
    05/12--4.5 miles
    05/13--2 miles
    05/14--4 miles
    Total 28.5 miles!

    Before I went running last night, I had to poop and I was laughing just thinking of the poop discussion in this thread! I am a morning person too! But then there are days when you go more than once!!
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