May 2017 Running Challenge
Replies
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@Azercord - I agree with @_nikkiwolf_ . As I have trained for races, my natural cadence on easy runs has increased from the low 170s to the high 170s/near 180; but I didn't do anything deliberately targeted at increasing cadence. I've worked on form, and I've done three marathon training cycles of various interval speed work, and it just happened.
If your major goal is to remain uninjured, and what you're doing is working, don't mess with it.2 -
@_nikkiwolf_ yeah I'm not too worried about hitting the magic 180 but I am showing mild signs of over-striding which I'm worried will add up as I increase mileage. I will just follow the addition of 5% until things feel pretty good.0
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It was another day of discovery today!
I'm liking this...in a masochistic way, I suppose.
Today was a scheduled workout day, and that has been my mid-week, hilly, long(ish) run. With the stressors in this cycle being increased effort instead of added miles, that means I'm repeating the 8 miles I did in prior weeks, but with a tempo effort being added in. In those weeks I would finish in around 1:54 to 1:55 at easy effort. The plan today was to do the first 6 miles at easy effort and then finish with a 2 mile pickup at tempo effort. The resulting time was 1:47, so I shaved almost a minute per mile on average with that pickup over the last two miles.
The first 6 miles went really well, and I found myself running strong and making good time, despite 70 degrees, high humidity (storms incoming) and some really heavy and steady winds today. Somehow the winds managed to be in my face both ways, but it was also a blessing due to the humidity. My splits were 14:05, 14:27, 13:13, 13:37, 14:31, 15:08. That last one is the second of two consecutive major uphill elevation gains and is always my slowest one on this route. The third mile at 13:13 is typically my fastest mile as it has the greatest elevation loss on the route. Both of those are the same stretch of route, just going the opposite way.
Over the last two miles I managed to keep my HR in the desired ranges for tempo effort without dying as I first thought would happen on that first stretch, although I did walk very briefly at a few points on some hills just long enough to bring the HR down a bit when I was going uphill and saw my HR at 165 and was convinced I would drift over my high HR alert of 166. That never actually happened though, so I could have kept going...I was apparently looking for any excuse to slow down obviously! I started back up every time either before my low HR alert chirped or right when it did, so I managed to keep the full 2 miles in the desired range. I'm hoping to stretch that out to running the full distance in the upcoming weeks at this effort. Obviously I need some work in this area. My splits on these final two miles were 10:30 and 11:55. That first one is the only mile that competes with mile 3 as the fastest regular mile on this route as it is also basically all downhill, but a little less so. The last mile is all uphill save for one very steep downhill that I have never been able to take at full speed due to a stretch that is too steep down. I always have to brake for that part, and I don't like being full throttle ahead of that braking either on that hill because that braking is pretty intense on the knees given the grade of the rest of the hill. I'm just a big wuss!
5/1 - 8 miles
5/2 - 4 miles
5/3 - 8 miles
5/4 - 4 miles
5/5 - rest
5/6 - 9 miles
5/7 - 4 miles
5/8 - 6 miles
5/9 - 4 miles
5/10 - 6 miles
5/11 - rest
5/12 - more rest
5/13 - 13 miles (plus 0.1)
5/14 - 4 miles
5/15 - 8 miles
5/16 - 4 miles
5/27 - 8 miles
90 of 180 miles completed
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@azercord - My experience in cadence matches up with @_nikkiwolf_ and @MobyCarp. The only thing that seems to effectively raise my cadence is working on my form and running faster. Back in 2015 I spent some time trying to use a metronome app to raise my cadence and all that wound up happening was pain. You can't force it. It is a natural result of running better. Just work on running better.1
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Well folks, I did it. I am officially registered for the Schaumburg Turkey Trot Half Marathon. It is on the Saturday after Thanksgiving in Busse Woods, which is a fantastic course.
Now it's time to work on my long runs. So far 10k has been my longest run since coming back from the injury. My plan for the summer is to get my long runs back up to 10 miles, and then come September I can work on getting them longer than 10.
I'm still very uncertain about this, but I feel like I *should* be able to do this.12 -
Fixed that for you.RespectTheKitty wrote: »I feel like I *will* be able to do this.
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I feel like I should mention this. Yesterday I went to Target before bowling to look at running clothes for the summer. The shorts and tanks I was wearing last summer are now too big and floppy. I decided to go with a couple pair of shorts that are a lot shorter than what I usually wear. I figured why the heck not? I have decent legs now that I no longer feel like hiding with knee-length shorts. So, two pair of short running shorts and three tanks. And they were all size MEDIUM. Last year at this time I was getting XL, and the year before that I was XXXL. So if this isn't a huge NSV, I don't know what is.
Can't wait to try out the new clothes!22 -
Thanks everyone I'll just stay the course then and watch my form.2
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Well folks, I did it. I am officially registered for the Schaumburg Turkey Trot Half Marathon. It is on the Saturday after Thanksgiving in Busse Woods, which is a fantastic course.
Now it's time to work on my long runs. So far 10k has been my longest run since coming back from the injury. My plan for the summer is to get my long runs back up to 10 miles, and then come September I can work on getting them longer than 10.
I'm still very uncertain about this, but I feel like I *should* be able to do this.
You got this. You have more time to train than I did when I got going for my first HM, and you're starting with more of a running background. Don't worry too much about the getting past 10 miles thing. If it helps psychologically, go for it. Otherwise, 10 is enough to get you in shape for a HM. You are totally ready for this running adventure!
Edit to add: How did I become someone who gives others running advice?? I still feel like a total Newbe!3 -
@MNLittleFinn -I think you are far from a newbie!0
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@MNLittleFinn - I feel the same way about offering advice! It just doesn't seem right for anyone to be listening to me for running advice.
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I'm not so sure about that......lporter229 wrote: »@MNLittleFinn -I think you are far from a newbie!WhatMeRunning wrote: »@MNLittleFinn - I feel the same way about offering advice! It just doesn't seem right for anyone to be listening to me for running advice.
yeah. I've only been running like a year and a half.... Feel like a total newbe.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »WhatMeRunning wrote: »I am eagerly awaiting the publishing of the book @Stoshew71 is going to write someday on running. Maybe us MFPeeps can get a signed copy? I've learned a lot from that blog. Not to mention this forum!
I agree. oh, and I'm going to need to get some pictures of myself running, to see what my stride actually looks like, as I have no clue. My run cadence is pretty high (185 average according to my Forerunner, including walking during strides) so I'm curious to what my form looks like now.
Have your wife take a video of you with your phone as you run by her.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »
I'm not so sure about that......lporter229 wrote: »@MNLittleFinn -I think you are far from a newbie!WhatMeRunning wrote: »@MNLittleFinn - I feel the same way about offering advice! It just doesn't seem right for anyone to be listening to me for running advice.
yeah. I've only been running like a year and a half.... Feel like a total newbe.
Yeah, and I feel like a total n00b of a marathon runner. Which doesn't stop people from asking for my advice about marathons.
It takes some time for the self-perception to catch up to reality.1 -
RespectTheKitty wrote: »I feel like I should mention this. Yesterday I went to Target before bowling to look at running clothes for the summer. The shorts and tanks I was wearing last summer are now too big and floppy. I decided to go with a couple pair of shorts that are a lot shorter than what I usually wear. I figured why the heck not? I have decent legs now that I no longer feel like hiding with knee-length shorts. So, two pair of short running shorts and three tanks. And they were all size MEDIUM. Last year at this time I was getting XL, and the year before that I was XXXL. So if this isn't a huge NSV, I don't know what is.
Can't wait to try out the new clothes!
@RespectTheKitty Great Job! I've gone from a size 16/XL to a size 10/M in 1 1/2 years. I just recently started wearing size 10/M clothing. The first time I tried on a size 10 I thought the tag was wrong. I tried on every pair of size 10 pants in the store just to make sure it was accurate - LOL. Awesome feeling!3 -
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2/5 - 3.2
4/5 - 3.2
6/5 - 3.3
7/5-3.3
8/5 - 3.3
9/5 - 3.2
11/5 - 4.0
13/5 - 4.0
15/5 - 4.0
16/5 - 4.0
17/5-3.0
total - 38.5/80 miles
Pouring rain for tonights run, was actually quite a lot of fun running in heavy rain!3 -
@respectthekitty super job!!
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I am only 17 days late, but better late then never
May Goal: 38 miles
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It can be a lot of fun. Puddles are everywhere in a total downpour so you pretty much get over being wet quickly and just stomp through everything. I have heard that hail can suck, if it's large enough. I've only been caught in hail once and it was smaller hail. When it first hit I was worried but after getting hit by a few I realized they were small and not hurting so I went on. A guy in a truck stopped and offered a ride to get me out of the rain and hail, but I just smiled and said, "Thanks, I'm good". He gave me the craziest look and actually took a minute before he drove off. Lightning is real bad though. That same day there was a close lightning strike and that really got my HR up.carolineb81 wrote: »Pouring rain for tonights run, was actually quite a lot of fun running in heavy rain!2 -
lporter229 wrote: »So my question is, when you run faster, do you see a higher increase in cadence or stride length? What are your statistics for pace, cadence and stride length for easy runs vs, say, 10K? Just curious, as I am wondering if this is something I might need to work on in the future.
I personally don't keep very good stats or analyze stuff like this. I do make mental notes sometimes on what I am doing.
So generically, Speed = cadence X stride length. So as an example, let's say the following:
My cadence is 180 steps per min. My avg stride length is that I can cover 3 feet per step (or 6 feet per stride). So,
180 steps/min X 3 feet/step = 540 feet/min
I am roughly covering a tenth of a mile per minute under these conditions.
Me personally, I very rarely am hitting 180 steps/min. If I race a 10K or a 5 miler, I get more like 178 spm. Normal training runs, I hit about 170-173 spm. And recovery days like today, I am hitting more like 166 spm. I have no idea what my avg stride length is cause I never calculated it. But that should be easy to figure out and most likely will be different for different types of runs. So let's look at this week's Garmin data.
Today I ran 4.03 miles in 38:56 at an avg of 9:39 pace and 166 spm.
Yesterday: 7.28 miles in 1:08:50 at 9:28 avg pace and 165 spm.
Monday: 6.23 miles in 54:17 at 8:43 avg pace and 168 spm.
last Thurs 5.03 miles in 38:13 at 7:35 avg pace and 175 spm.
Thursday I incorporated some tempo intervals so it was a higher step count.
last Tuesday 5.03 miles in 40:34 at 8:04 pace and 171 spm.
So the tendency for me is that the faster I run, the higher cadence I have. But that is not always the case. Speed is generally calculated by both cadence and stride length. So it must also be true for me that sometimes, I may pick up speed (or lose speed) because of the power of my push-off which is what gives me my stride length.
Like it is very possible to quicken my foot speed (faster cadence) without trying to run faster. I just don't attempt to push off as hard. If I were racing a 5K (which I haven't raced one officially yet), my objective would be to have both quick cadence and push-off my making sure my heel is raised (near my butt).
This is as opposed towards the end of my marathon a few Saturday's ago where not only did my cadence drop, but my feet were barely shuffling along. So cadence and stride length was reduced.
I just brought up my Strava from KDF marathon.
Mile 1: 7:30 pace and my cadence ranged from 174-182.
Mile 2: 7:36 pace & cadence ranged from 176-172.
Mile 3: 7:41 pace & cadence in the range of 174-170
As the race went on, my pace and cadence slowed down gradually.
i.e. Mile 16 9:24 with 170-162 spm, Mile 17 9:27 with 160-162 spm
Mile 19: 10:25 pace and 160-154, well actually I think I did a walk from 19.8 to mile 20.
That walk would have dramatically slowed my pace for that lap.
I did some run/walks from mile 20-25. Mile 26: 9:52 & 160-166 spm.
I hope this helps.0 -
I just read Moby's response to lporter's question and that makes perfect sense. Especially the part he talks about landing and the ground forces acting against your body as your land could cause injury. Most definitely is true that the weakest thing in your body will be effected as your feet just pound the pavement over and over again.
Another good reason why slowly building up your base is very important. Not only is it good sense for cardio vascular training, but also your physical body. The longer duration and more times you run, you are creating that load against your body, especially from the push-off and even more important the landing. You are allowing your body to get stronger and physically endure these ground impact forces. That is why over-striding is potentially dangerous for injury. The further in front your feet land from your center of gravity, the bigger load you have on your body every time your foot lands which = more impact stresses. You want those ground impact forces acting against your body to be minimal as much as possible.0 -
09/05 3.53 miles
10/05 3.59 miles
11/05 3.56 miles
15/05 3.66 miles
16/05 4.02 miles
17/05 3.56 miles
@ddmom0811 - that's lovely how your school kids appreciate you so much!
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lporter229 wrote: »
But the biggest thing about running faster and injury is simple physics. Force is proportional to velocity squared, and when I run faster I'm hitting the ground harder. If we take the force I hit with at an 8:00 pace to be standard, at a 6:00 pace I will hit the ground with 178% of the standard force. (8:00 = 7.5 mph, 6:00 = 10 mph, (10/7.5)^2 = 1.7777777)
Very interesting point. The difference is huge!
Another consideration is that at a faster pace, I may have less control of my form; but I think the less control thing is bigger from injury than from pace. My first trip into physical therapy, the sound track was that I probably hurt my feet because I had weak hip abductors and couldn't properly control my foot strike. Fixed the weak hip abductors, and that particular type of foot problem didn't come back.
I am also wondering if there are additional things (not related to my hamstrings) that I can do to loosen up my hamstrings. Both my PT and his associate said that my hamstrings were among the tightest they have ever seen (yay me!). I am constantly doing the stretches and strengthening exercises he has given me, but my range of motion just doesn't seem to be budging very much.
Here's another thought, focus on keeping everything relaxed? A lot of people when they first start running longer distances, they notice their neck and shoulders cramp up. That's because when we run (especially with a purpose) we tense up. We make tight fists, our elbows start to raise up, or backs start to slouch, and our heads start to drop.
The goal to an efficient running form is to keep everything straight and inline and relaxed. I really need to work on this. Run like you are holding raw eggs in your hands, make sure your hands are brushing against your hips and not near your ribs. Elbows bend at a 90 degree angle. Your head is looking straight ahead not up in the air or dropping towards the ground and your body from your hips to the top of your head is in-line and straight with a slight lean from the ankles (not the hips).
The idea is to continue this in your lower body as well as your upper body. Everything should be relaxed. You also want to ensure your are engaging your glutes (those butt muscles). I think it was last year I mentioned the imaginary quarter in between your glute cheeks? If you squeeze those buttucks together and keep your hips forward and upright, that's going to promote a very in-line and relaxed running form where you are exerting power from those most powerful muscles and not from other muscles not designed to give you that same power.
Using secondary muscles in replacement of your primary muscles is what most of the time aggravates an injury. What I mean by that is that if you don't engage your glutes, you maybe employing more stress on your hips and thighs. This then creates an overuse effect on those secondary muscles. The same thing happens when you attempt to run with an injury and your form is effected. Since you're already running with bad form, you are concentrating even more on those secondary muscles which will amplify the injury even more.
Do you roll a tennis ball on your tight muscles at night? This could help.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »
If all you want is a video of your form, why not? Just try to run like you normally would run when she's asleep.0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »RespectTheKitty wrote: »Well folks, I did it. I am officially registered for the Schaumburg Turkey Trot Half Marathon. It is on the Saturday after Thanksgiving in Busse Woods, which is a fantastic course.
Now it's time to work on my long runs. So far 10k has been my longest run since coming back from the injury. My plan for the summer is to get my long runs back up to 10 miles, and then come September I can work on getting them longer than 10.
I'm still very uncertain about this, but I feel like I *should* be able to do this.
You got this. You have more time to train than I did when I got going for my first HM, and you're starting with more of a running background. Don't worry too much about the getting past 10 miles thing. If it helps psychologically, go for it. Otherwise, 10 is enough to get you in shape for a HM. You are totally ready for this running adventure!
Edit to add: How did I become someone who gives others running advice?? I still feel like a total Newbe!
Not too long ago, I was in your same shoes. Well not your running shoes. But you know what I mean. lol
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »@azercord - My experience in cadence matches up with @_nikkiwolf_ and @MobyCarp. The only thing that seems to effectively raise my cadence is working on my form and running faster. Back in 2015 I spent some time trying to use a metronome app to raise my cadence and all that wound up happening was pain. You can't force it. It is a natural result of running better. Just work on running better.
For a while, I had songs edited to a 180 bpm and metronome and played them while I ran. I felt physically tired doing this especially if I was just trying to run at a normal training pace. I eventually gave up on the idea.
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Think I'm going to, this weekend, then upload it to my photobucket for you all to look at.f all you want is a video of your form, why not? Just try to run like you normally would run when she's asleep.
LOL. It takes some getting used toNot too long ago, I was in your same shoes. Well not your running shoes. But you know what I mean. lol
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Since I did run this morning, I guess I should log it, eh?
Date Miles today - Miles for May
5/1 REST DAY
5/2 REST DAY
5/3 REST DAY
5/4 REST DAY
5/5 REST DAY
5/6 REST DAY
5/7 REST DAY <<<<<<< marathon recovery
5/8 4.25 miles - 4.25
5/9 5 miles - 9.25
5/10 REST DAY
5/11 5 miles - 14.25
5/12 REST DAY
5/13 12 miles - 26.25
5/14 REST DAY
5/15 6.2 miles - 32.45
5/16 7.25 miles - 39.7
5/17 4 miles - 43.7
Elkmont Hound Dog Half (unofficial) - 1/21 << 1:46:48 2 OA
Elkmont Hound Dog Half (rescheduled) - 2/18 << 1:41:04 1 in AG & 24 OA
Kentucky Derby Festival Marathon - 4/29 << 4:09:59
Upcoming races:
None so far
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