May 2017 Running Challenge

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  • greenolivetree
    greenolivetree Posts: 1,282 Member
    edited May 2017
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    @skippygirlsmom I'm a little late but Skip looked beautiful and I'm sorry she didn't have a great time.

    @mobycarp I enjoyed your pics also. I hear you on the rural or not thing.

    I live in suburbia but on the edge of rural. Just 1.5 mile from my house I come to a 4 way and I could go onto dirt road, but I choose to stay on the paved roads. I can see the cows and horses from the paved roads. I don't need to run into some crazy person or their dog on a dirt road where they think I don't belong. The roads are usually named after the people that live on them and kinda feels like their big long driveway vs a place I belong :-p

    I'm really frustrated right now with my knee that I hurt on Tuesday. I took it easy Wed/Thurs and then Friday I tried a 3 mile walk/run (probably 50/50). Felt totally fine and the knee continues to feel fine walking or even squatting or jumping. Yet all day long I have sharp pains, usually when I've just gotten up from a chair or out of bed. I was getting out of bed when I hurt it, so I think it's something to do with the motion I'm doing when getting up and turning abruptly. So I don't know if I should keep doing things that don't hurt.....or if that will somehow be stopping the knee from healing. I didn't exercise Sat/Sun either just in case....
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Today was a day to discover some things. The goal was to do tempo intervals on my 8 mile run. I planned on starting them at 2 miles in, see what I could do and learn over the middle 4 miles, and then spend the final two miles cooling down.

    First, I don't know my LT pace. The last one I have is from when I was running last year. So far all of this year has been slow, steady, mileage building. I know my estimated Max HR though and that is good enough to get things started, and provides target HR zones to work towards tempo to LT effort.

    Secondly, I don't even have a slow and stead pace that I can run at to cool down. My slowest running pace I can do with good form is in the 10-11 minute/mile range, which is too fast for an easy effort. So all of my easy and long runs have all been a mix of walking and running to keep my effort in the proper zone.

    Combine all this and it is pretty interesting trying to plan tempo intervals. I don't know what 400m at my 10-11 minute mile pace will present challenge-wise to my HR as I always cool it down once I hit 80% max HR...which is always less than 1/4 mile.

    I was hoping to do six to eight 400m intervals with a cool down in between. Instead of running at easy pace, I would have to walk obviously. :smile: I set my Garmin to do the intervals based on HR instead of distance, and to mentally track when I started running to either stop when the HR hit 90% HRMax or when I hit .25 miles, whichever came first.

    The first two miles were pleasant. It was warm and more humid today than the past couple days. The first mile even passed a little quicker than expected. I went into the 3rd mile already running and just continued on, planning to run to 2.25 miles or my high HR alert (90% HRMax) whichever came first. I reached the quarter mile mark with 3 bpm to spare. so I could run at this familiar pace as a tempo effort. I was pretty pleased with that!

    I walked until my low HR alert chirped (I was doing these intervals between 70% and 90% HRMax) which was only another .06 miles. A short distance, so I knew that even if I completed a total of 8 quarter mile intervals I would fall well short of the 4 miles I had programmed in for the intervals. Turned out I didn't have to worry about that either. I petered out on my 6th interval, about 3.5 miles in. I finished the next 2.5 miles treating it as a long run effort, and then the final two miles at the planned easy run effort.

    This was a good workout, I suspect I will feel it later. My last two miles were slower than normal, maybe partly due to heat, but more so due to the workout, I suspect.

    Now to figure out this next workout...a tempo run. That should prove interesting. It will probably more resemble longer intervals. but since I never actually hit my 90% HRMax, I was always a couple bpm shy of it, I may very well be able to cover a fair distance at that pace as long as I can push my legs.

    At the end of today's workout my Garmin reported it detected my Lactate Threshold at 164, with a LT Pace of 10:17. That HR is not at all far off of my estimates in the Daniels tables. The pace is a lot different, but I have been very suspicious of my paces in the Daniels tables as there were too many unknowns. As I do more of these workouts these missing pieces of data will fill in.

    5/1 - 8 miles
    5/2 - 4 miles
    5/3 - 8 miles
    5/4 - 4 miles
    5/5 - rest
    5/6 - 9 miles
    5/7 - 4 miles
    5/8 - 6 miles
    5/9 - 4 miles
    5/10 - 6 miles
    5/11 - rest
    5/12 - more rest
    5/13 - 13 miles (plus 0.1)
    5/14 - 4 miles
    5/15 - 8 miles

    78 of 180 miles completed


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  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
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    Hi all!

    5/2: 7k -Urban-
    5/3: 9k -Urban-
    5/5: 10k -Intervals-
    5/6: 5k -as c/d from strangth training-
    5/7: 7.7k -easy-
    5/8: 2k -as c/d from legs training-
    5/9: 17k -LR-
    5/12: 7.5k -regeneration run-
    5/13: 8.5k -fartlek-
    5/15: 9.1k -trail-

    Tappering week starting at Monday. maybe some swimming will do the trick together with reduced running milage.

    Aim: 83.1/140k

    Upcoming races: Under Armor Run ThessalonikiI City Challenge HF 2017

    Stay free of injuries!
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
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    amymoreorless wrote: »
    5/1= 3 mile run + 1 hour kettlebell workout
    5/2 = rest day
    5/3 = 6 mile run
    5/4 = 6 mile run
    5/5 = forced rest day due to work schedule :(
    5/6 = 7.5 miles
    5/7 = 11 miles
    5/8 = 5.5 miles & strength training
    5/9 = Vinyasa yoga class
    5/10 = 6 miles
    5/11 = 6.5 miles & strength training
    5/12 = 7 miles
    5/13 = vinyasa yoga class
    5/14 = 10 miles
    5/15 = 5.5 miles & strength training

    My schedule is shifting and I now have to run at 4:30 am two days a week. I tried it for the first time this morning -- I hope I can stay awake all day at work!

    I feel a little bit uncomfortable running in the dark. The rational part of my brain tells me that I live in suburbia so it is relatively safe. Part of my run takes me on a greenbelt so I brought a hand-held small LED flashlight with a wrist strap to avoid tripping over something and falling to my death. The irrational part of my brain, however, sifted though every horror film where the girl gets chased by something horrible in the woods. I almost had a heart attack when a cat ran in front of me - LOL.

    Any night/early pre-sunrise runners have any safety tips for me?


    May Goal 74/125 miles

    @amymoreorless Now I don't normally run at 4:30, but I do if my schedule requires it. This past weekend, I had to run at 4:30 am on Saturday, and 4:45 am on Sunday. Although it was extremely difficult getting my butt outta bed, I have to say that I really enjoyed running so early. It was peaceful with hardly any traffic. It was cool, and if I did my runs later, it would have been in the 80s/90s with the scorching hot sun.

    I do take pepper spray that straps onto my hand or hydration belt. I also have a light that clips onto my visor, which I wear for when the sun comes up. The light isn't really bright and I just turn it on when I see a car coming towards me or if I'm in an area that is just too dark. I would probably have something brighter if I was on a trail, depending how technical it is.

    And I crashed early on Saturday night and took a nap yesterday. I never take naps. Lol
  • PinkamenaD8
    PinkamenaD8 Posts: 99 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Those outdoor running pics of Mobycarp, and WhatMeRunning experience are amazing, It made me want to quit the gym.

    @NikolaosKey Hi, what's a regeneration run?

    Ran 30k in the past 4 days. Not bad but I need rest wich is hard for how much I love running. :D


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  • zdyb23456
    zdyb23456 Posts: 1,706 Member
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    5/1 5.5mi 53:51min (interval run)
    5/2 5mi 44:35min
    5/3 rest
    5/4 5mi 44:20min
    5/5 4mi 37:27min
    5/6 11mi 1:43:14min
    5/7 rest <- but I spent 7 hours painting!!!
    5/8 7mi 1:06:29min
    5/9 5mi 45:31min
    5/10 rest
    5/11 5mi 43:55min
    5/12 4mi 36:09min
    5/13 12mi 1:54:33min
    5/14 rest
    5/15 5mi 43:03min

    5 miles today. It was warm and sunny, but the humidity was low so it felt good. It's going to hit 90 this week so I'm not looking forward to that... I may have to think about running before the kids get up for school.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    Secondly, I don't even have a slow and stead pace that I can run at to cool down. My slowest running pace I can do with good form is in the 10-11 minute/mile range, which is too fast for an easy effort. So all of my easy and long runs have all been a mix of walking and running to keep my effort in the proper zone.
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    @WhatMeRunning - This may be old news to you, so take it for what it's worth. There are different ways to calculate HR zones, and I haven't found consensus on what way is best. Garmin defaulted to calculating zones as percentage of max HR:
    Z1 = 50%-59.9%
    Z2 = 60%-69.9%
    Z3 = 70%-79.9%
    Z4 = 80%-89.9%
    Z5 = 90%+

    That produced some answers for zones. I ran with those calculated zones for several years without feeling like the zones were telling me much. It was a real struggle to keep my HR down in Zone 2 on long runs.

    Then I found that I could reset Garmin to compute zones on a residual method, which I knew as the Karvonnen method:
    Z1 = RHR + 50-59.9% (MHR-RHR)
    Z2 = RHR + 60-69.9% (MHR-RHR)
    Z3 = RHR + 70-79.9% (MHR-RHR)
    Z4 = RHR + 80-89.9% (MHR-RHR)
    Z5 = RHR + 90-99.9% (MHR-RHR)

    Of course, the actual numbers depend on the inputs. Resting Heart Rate is pretty easy to measure; all I have to do is remember to measure it in the morning before I get out of bed. So I tell Garmin my RHR is 45. Garmin had estimated my max HR as 185 after it got a few weeks of my HR data. Magic! All of a sudden, Zone 1 felt ridiculously easy, Zone 2 felt easy, Zone 3 felt moderately hard, Zone 4 felt like a hard race, and Zone 5 felt like, I can't keep this up very long. The long runs lined up to be 40-60% Zone 1 and most of the rest Zone 2, perhaps with a dab of Zone 3 corresponding to the steeper hills. All this, without significantly changing the actual HR numbers when running. [Geek note: The transition from percent of max to percent of reserve moved the lower zones to noticeably higher numbers, and had less impact on the higher zones. A true geek will look at the math and understand why.]

    Last week, there was a software update to my Garmin 630. One of the side effects was that it decided to auto-detect my max HR. It said my max HR was 202, probably from reading bad data. I. Don't. Think. So. The highest HR I've seen on Garmin data that looks like an honest reading is 189, when I felt like I couldn't keep running any longer at the top of the final trip up "the wall" at Apalachee State Park for the 2016 USATF XC Club Championships.

    Now, with a supposed max HR of 202, the zones got recalculated. On my next easy run, Garmin said I didn't even get into Zone 1 for two thirds of the time. But the actual HR was pretty much like my HR on other easy runs. I figured out how to tell Garmin my max HR was 185, the zones went back to where they had been for my next run, and the runs feel like the zones are accurate again.

    This is kind of a long winded way of saying, you need to look at those HR zones with a critical eye and decide whether the numbers make sense for how you feel while running. Maybe you've already done this, and you're comfortable with the answers. If so, I hope this discussion helps someone else who hasn't put much thought into it yet.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    May Running Totals (miles)
    5/1 – 5.16 easy
    5/2 – 6.67 easy
    5/3 – rest day
    5/4 – 8.08 easy
    5/5 – rest day
    5/6 – 11.23 loosely paced run
    5/7 – 11.08 easy with fast finish
    5/8 – 5.23 easy
    5/9 – 8.16 warm up, speed work, cool down
    5/10 – 5.66 group run
    5/11 – 7.25 easy plus 5 strides
    5/12 – rest day
    5/13 – 15.07 paced run
    5/14 – 7.20 easy
    5/15 – 6.03 easy

    May total to date – 96.82

    Nominal Challenge Goal – 200 miles
    Real Goals: Stay healthy. Build base. 5/28, start training plan toward MVP Rochester Marathon.

    Today's notes – 64º F (18º C) and sunny when I went out to run, so it was shorts and a singlet. The idea was to run easy; but I saw a lot of pace on my watch that seemed a bit fast. Ended up running 6 miles at an average pace of 7:34, but the average HR came in at 130 and the max at 143. That wasn't too bad. Scratch the surface, and it looks like I ran the last 2 miles a bit faster than the MP I targeted for Boston. Hmm. Have to think about self control.

    No pictures today. I ran past some, but not all of the same nice scenery as yesterday; I suppose some pictures of road repair would be New and Different. But I didn't think of them in real time.

    I would have liked to run a bit further, but I was a bit time crunched. I have an evening commitment, and I needed to preserve time and energy to mow the lawn. Sigh. How do you know when to mow the lawn in the spring in Rochester, NY? If it isn't raining, it's time to mow the lawn.

    2017 races:
    January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
    January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
    January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
    January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
    February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
    February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
    February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
    March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
    March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
    April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:49:42
    April 30, 2017 USATF Masters 10K Championship (James Joyce Ramble, Dedham, MA) finished in 39:54, PR for 10K
    May 21, 2017 Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY)
    June 9, 2017 Charlie McMullen Mile (Rochester, NY)
    June 18, 2017 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY)
    July 28, 2017 Karknocker 5K (East Rochester, NY)
    September 17, 2017 MVP Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
    November 23, 2017 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
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    May 1 -P90X3 Total Synergistics + 20 minutes stretching and foam rolling
    May 2- P90X3 Agility+ 45 minutes stationary bike at gym (rolling hills, level 7)
    May 3- Swimming laps 25 minutes (500M)+P90X3 yoga (25 min) + 20 minutes stretching hamstrings
    May 4-25 minutes yoga/stretching+ 20 minute strength training + another 10 minutes stretching
    May 5- Swimming laps 25 minutes (600M)+25 minutes of hamstring work and 10 minutes stretching
    May 6- Rest day
    May 7-P90X3 Challenge+ 15 minutes of hamstring work
    May 8- Swimming laps 30 minutes (600M)+ P90X3 CVX (Cardio) +22 minutes stretching
    May 9- 50 minutes stationary bike (rolling hills, level 8-18 miles)+ P90X3 Warrior+20 minutes stretching
    May 10- Swimming laps 30 minutes (750M)+ P90X3 Dynamix
    May 11- P90X3 Total Synergistics+ 20 minutes biking on trainer
    May 12- 40 minutes stationary bike+ 15 minutes hamstring exercises
    May13- Swimming laps 30 minutes (750M)+10 minutes stretching
    May 14- 45 minutes stationary bike (hard effort intervals)+ 10 minutes stretching

    Managed to get to the gym twice this weekend while visiting mom. The LA Fitness by her house is much bigger and more crowded than my normal one , but the people there were so incredibly nice, it really made me want to move back!
    My hubby is out of town for 3 days, so I am not sure if I will get to the gym since I have to get home for the dog. I plan to take her for a long walk tonight (and maybe throw in a few jogging intervals!) My hamstrings are feeling pretty good these days. I don't want to rush anything though. Must resist and take it slow!

    @MobyCarp - How long were you off running while recovering after Boston last year? Just curious, since you were able to come back so strong.
  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
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    @amymoreorless I run in the dark most of the time, like @beeerrunner I take mace that comes with a hand strap so I don't have to carry it. I'm not afraid of people, I was attached by the pit bull one time so now I carry mace.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Thanks for the reminder @MobyCarp! I'm actually going to recheck my Garmin's Max HR just in case it changed like yours did. I don't think so because things have been feeling right...
    Still good at 185. :smile: Hey, we have the same Max HR! Finally something I can do like @MobyCarp! :lol:

    I like that you brought this up because I was actually using HR ranges from the values output in the Daniels Tables Spreadsheet I use based on HR inputs (Max and resting). I trust those, and have been using the HR at each "step" from Recovery efforts to the other side to figure out where I am. I've been doing this because I have not "raced" anything since starting up running again this year, so I don't have a 5k time or anything like that to plug in. Basically I look at my average HR on a run, take my average pace, and see if the pace in that column matches the HR. If not I can see if I should be faster or slower and use that to fine tune my 5k input time until the data starts looking right. Right now a 34:00 5k gets the paces right for the listed HR to match the pace listed and actually match the average pace on a run that averaged at that HR.

    Heck, that probably sounds confusing. So here is a quick breakdown of my "effort zones" I enter into my Garmin for my runs, and the ranges from the Daniels Spreadsheet (I actually planned these from them, not Garmin zones):
    • Easy Run - Recovery HR (120) to High Aero HR (149) - Usually average ~135 which is smack center of Easy Aerobic Zone. Works out to 65% to 80% MaxHR.
    • Long Run - Lowest Aerobic HR (130) to High Aero HR (149) - Usually average ~139 which is high end of Easy Aerobic Zone. Works out to 70% to 80% Max HR.
    • Today's Tempo Intervals - Lowest Aerobic HR (130) to 10k (166) - Max HR I hit today was 165. Works out to 70% to 90% Max HR.
    • Wednesday's Tempo Run - 1/2 Marathon HR (157) to 10k (166) - works out to 85% to 90% MAx HR.

    All that said, I really appreciate your feedback. I love getting feedback. Anything that helps me along is a great thing.

    I really wish it was as simple as me needing to just keep running because my HR zones are wrong. But they do feel right when I run at those efforts. Once I start cracking towards 149 my breathing is getting up there and I am feeling it. I sure felt it today while extending that same pace for further distances than before! Actually...I was probably pushing the pace ever so slightly. That was not my intention, but I was trying to get my HR up on those first couple intervals as I never actually hit the targeted max of 166. If that continues over time, I may have just set that a point too high perhaps. :smile:

    Instead, unfortunately, the reason I am struggling with running, and have to walk so much just to go a short distance in order to keep my HR in the right zones is my weight. I gained 60 pounds in the 6 months I took off from running after injury last year. :grimace: I have lost 10 of those pounds since starting back up, but am still running with an extra 50 pounds on me. My ideal weight is 180, my best weight last year when I was running was 235, my max weight when I started running this year was 295, and my most recent weight was 285. Those are not rounded to 5's, it just so happened to be all those numbers! :lol:

    On the upside...according to the same Daniels spreadsheet, if I get back down to last years weight at 235 right now, at my current performance level, I would be able to do a 5k in 29:xx which is two full minutes faster than what I was capable of last year at that weight. So...while I am slower at my current weight, I appear to have made improvements overall (maybe, we'll see).

    On the downside...my race day photos this year are gawd awful!!! :grimace::grimace::grimace: BURN THEM!!! So much pooch. :grimace: And the moobs! :grimace::grimace::grimace:
  • hanlonsk
    hanlonsk Posts: 762 Member
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    5/13- 3.1 Girls on the run 5k.
    5/15 -4.1

    34.9/100 - clearly behind schedule and need to pick up the pace

    5k was not officially timed, but strava gave me 31:32 not a pr, but given how slow and sucky my runs have been lately, it is a vast improvement.
    Today, however, was back to sucky. I need to figure out what is cause this feeling o' suckage, or else it's going to be a long month up to the half marathon.

  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    lporter229 wrote: »
    @MobyCarp - How long were you off running while recovering after Boston last year? Just curious, since you were able to come back so strong.

    Last year was a Major Learning Experience, i.e. I screwed up. (Looks at records.)

    I ran 4 miles two days after Boston 2016. Knowing what I know now, I should not have run that day. Then I compounded the problem with 5 miles, 4 miles, a rest day, and a half marathon with some hills in the middle. 6 days after Boston 2016 I ran the Flower City Half right around my planned Boston marathon pace, won my age group, and couldn't run at all the next day. It was very late May before I was comfortable running as much as 6 miles again, and middle of July before I ran another race. I had already registered for Lilac 10K (3rd Sunday in May) and Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Father's Day), and had to DNS both of those.

    I like my 2017 experience a whole lot better so far.

  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
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    I'm still on the fence about signing up for the HM in November. I mean, it's plenty of time to train, and I can do pretty much all of my training in the fall when it's not too hot. But my main concern is whether or not I can actually do that distance. I've been able to run 10 miles, but every time I try to go further than that I fail miserably. I don't know if it's a question of fueling or I just need to build my base better. I have the Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 training program I want to use. Do you think that will get me to 13.1 or will I keep crapping out at 10 miles? I suppose I could always walk the remaining 3.1 if I have to. I need to decide soon if I want to sign up while the entry fee is still relatively low.

    I just really want to be able to say I've done a HM. Is that so much to ask?
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Do it @RespectTheKitty! Go for it!! You can do it!

    ETA: No two people are alike, but I had a 10 mile limit too on my first half, and when training for my next half. I did mostly all walking that last 3.1 miles on my first half because my hips were sore. I couldn't understand why there would be a 10 mile distance limit on my body. Once I mentioned on here about how I would always have to stop running at around 10 miles because my hips hurt and I had nothing left someone mentioned core strengthening exercises. I checked that out, start doing some regularly, I was able to break this 10 mile limit. Again, no two people are alike, and the source of your 10 mile limitation may just be conditioning. But for me it was about proper running form. I would beat myself up for 10 miles running with bad form until my body no longer would let me do that.
  • hanlonsk
    hanlonsk Posts: 762 Member
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    @RespectTheKitty You can do it! Learning about run fuel really rocked my world. Running buddy and I struggled with anything longer than 7... fueling changed that to the point we called those things magic. We aren't sure how much of it is the fuel itself and how much is the break up the run/goal/reward system. Something about "one more mile, and I get a piece of candy" helps my brain probably.
    We failed at fueling timely (starting with how many hours after breakfast our run started and snowballed it from there) on one long run since, and we still lived thru it. If you have ran 10 even, you are well ahead of where I started. 4 miles was a long run for me when I started training for next month's half.

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