Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.
Replies
-
Geocitiesuser wrote: »Because haes/fat acceptance is about forcing everyone to think fat people "deserve" to be beautiful. It is the opposite of letting people live their lives on their own.
Exactly. Any notion of weight loss is considered "giving in to their internalised fatphobia" and is seen as an act of treachery against their ranks.7 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »Because haes/fat acceptance is about forcing everyone to think fat people "deserve" to be beautiful. It is the opposite of letting people live their lives on their own.
Like I said on the first page:lemurcat12 wrote: »These threads always seem to become a debate about what the fat acceptance people claim, in part because many of us are not that familiar with them, in part because we mix them up with body positive or "love yourself" or who knows what groups/people or the anti diet people (who IME aren't always about not losing weight).
To the extent we are referring to people who say that obesity is not a health risk, then of course they are wrong.
I don't find many people who actually think obesity is not a health risk unless I seek them out online, but this could be geographic or generational, who knows.
I will add now that I know people who would say they are in favor of fat acceptance who most certainly do not believe something so silly as that fat people (or anyone else) "deserves" to be beautiful, whatever that means. They may define beauty as not about physical appearance and claim to believe that all humans are beautiful, but whatever, that doesn't affect anyone else's ability to live their own lives.
As for HAES, I've never met a real life one in the wild. I don't go to HAES sites on the internet since it doesn't really interest me. I'm always surprised it seems to be such a thing on MFP (not as much as I am about Freelee being a thing) since it's completely not in my world.5 -
Just because you weren't happy being plus size doesn't mean some people aren't.
I think the whole movement is saying whether people like it or not everyone is going to be a different weight and shape so stop being an *kitten* to someone because you don't like how they look.
As much as "healthy weights" are promoted there will ALWAYS be over and underweight people.
I think you can be above the recommended weight and still be healthy, but no you can't be obese and be healthy.
Honestly who cares. If everyone minded their business and took care of themselves none of it would even be an issue.5 -
As for HAES, I've never met a real life one in the wild.
You are fortunate.4 -
I had to look up the acronyms "HAES" etc.... I never heard of these movements. I've just been reading these comments thinking, what is wrong with everyone? Why is everyone so upset by someone like me not hating myself? Am I not supposed to find some acceptance of myself because of my weight? Do you want all of us fat people to just off ourselves to satisfy your idea of what you think people need to look like? Should we just exterminate ourselves? There is so much hatred on this site. Obviously, we are trying to lose weight, that's why we have myfitnesspal accounts. What the hell!!!Geocitiesuser wrote: »As for HAES, I've never met a real life one in the wild.
You are fortunate.
6 -
What the HAES movement seems to want to do, in my opinion, is to try and normalize people being heavier than the human body is engineered to endure. They want people to agree that it's ok and just "different" . It's a little like people who smoke and say that they know someone who has smoked their whole lives and is healthy as a horse, so it's ok. There are of course those outliers, but from a biological standpoint, human lungs have a finite ability to detoxify themselves. You could say the same thing about ankle joints or heart muscles under the stress of an overweight person. It comes down to a "do the math" kinda thing. Of course, it shouldn't matter one way or the other what a person looks like, but I wouldn't accept someone telling me that I'm being biased or mean if I won't agree that the human body has a limited capacity for stressors. Our genetic code has not caught up with our cultural changes in food consumption.8
-
I agree that being overweight is not ideal and eventually leads to health issues. As I've said before, I've been yo-yo dieting since age of 12, and weight loss has taken up a good portion of my obsession, followed by falling off the wagon, followed by weight gain, followed by self hatred, followed by giving up, followed by at some point feeling good enough about myself to start over, followed by weight loss, followed by giving up..... It's been going on like this for 29 years now, I'm 41 years old. In my late 20's was my largest weight loss, when I actually went from 265 lbs. to 145 lbs. I'm not afraid of exercise. I was actually on the cross country running team in high school, never one of those little toothpick shaped high school girl runners, but a healthy runner, nonetheless. Well, sort of healthy, I wouldn't eat with my family because I only wanted to eat oatmeal made with apples, cinnamon, artificial sweetener and water that was like a paste that I made in the microwave. I was obsessed with being fat since it seemed like so many other people my age were toothpicks. I fluctuate between being somewhat athletic and being obese. To be clear, before anyone gets upset with me for claiming to be (for the time being) an "HAES" who isn't part of the "movement"....by the way, just learned about the "movement" yesterday..... I'm on here to lose weight. I'm logging my calories and working out every day. So don't get too upset by this....
Does anyone want to see an eff-ing medical miracle? This is my blood work from a couple of months ago before I got back on the wagon. I procrastinated about getting my blood work because I thought for sure being obese would have caught up to me by now. This is my blood work copied and pasted from the online database...pretty cool that we can look up our results online now, rather than just wait for the doctor to say the numbers were normal, or not, or whatever.
41 years old, female, 232 lbs (Actually, I think I was 245 or 250 at the time of the bloodwork, but current weight is 232 lbs.)
(copied and pasted)
Cholesterol 187 mg/dL mg/dL
REFERENCE RANGE: < 200 Desirable
200-239 Borderline High
> 240 High
Triglycerides 59 mg/dL mg/dL
REFERENCE RANGE: < 150 Normal
150-199 Borderline High
200-499 High
> 500 Very High
HDL 57 mg/dL mg/dL
REFERENCE RANGE: < 40 Low
> 60 High
LDL Calculated 118 mg/dL mg/dL
REFERENCE RANGE: < 100 Optimal
100-129 Near or above optimal
130-159 Borderline High
160-189 High
> 189 Very High
Non HDL Cholesterol 130 mg/dL mg/dL
Target is 30mg/dl above(or over) LDL goal
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.3
General Information
Collected:
02/17/2017 8:32 AM
Resulted:
02/17/2017 12:19 PM
Component
Your Value
Standard Range
Glucose 94 mg/dL 60 - 99 mg/dL
Reference Ranges apply only to FASTING samples.
ADA Guidelines Blood Sugar Levels for Diagnosing Diabetes & Pre-diabetes
Normal: < 100 mg/dL
Impaired Fasting Glucose (IFG): 100-125 mg/dL
Diabetes: > 126 mg/dL on two different occasions
Sodium 138 mmol/L 133 - 145 mmol/L
Potassium 4.2 mmol/L 3.3 - 5.1 mmol/L
Chloride 103 mmol/L 96 - 108 mmol/L
CO2 22 mmol/L 20 - 28 mmol/L
Anion Gap 13 7 - 16
UN 7 mg/dL 6 - 20 mg/dL
Creatinine 0.72 mg/dL 0.51 - 0.95 mg/dL
GFR,Caucasian 104 * *
GFR,Black 120 * *
*UNITS=mL/min/1.73 square meters
Calcium 8.6 mg/dL 8.8 - 10.2 mg/dL
General Information
Collected:
02/17/2017 8:32 AM
Resulted:
02/17/2017 12:19 PM
Anyway, I would say not too bad for a 41 year old 232 lb. female. I know being fat, if I were to continue being fat, will catch up with me eventually....but these are the numbers from a few months ago. Since I have been exercising and watching my diet almost religiously, If I were to have the blood work done again today, these numbers would be better than this now.
The only number that is off is my thyroid, I just found out in March that I'm hypothyroid, not sure how long this has been going on, my Dr. doesn't normally order this blood test for me. I hear it's one of the most common medical conditions.
Component
Your Value
Standard Range
TSH 10.23 uIU/mL 0.27 - 4.20 uIU/mL
TSH 10.23 uIU/mL 0.27 - 4.20 uIU/mL
General Information
Collected:
03/17/2017 6:58 AM
Resulted:
03/17/2017 11:27 AM
I just started the minimum amount of levothyroxine in March and my follow up bloodwork is going to be later this week. I guess it takes a while to get the levels right, this is all new to me. I'm not sure how it's going to effect me, I'm hoping it gives me more energy when my levels are right. And no...I'm not blaming this on my weight. I read up on it after I found out I had it, it could be to blame for a few lbs, but not the whole thing. Apparently a lot of people have it.3 -
wsandy8512 wrote: »I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.
Agreed. This, I understand. No need to bash skinny people, we are all different.1 -
Gimsteinn1 wrote: »I don't agree with you. You can be fat and healthy. Actually, the woman who got me into the fit lifestyle can run for miles, she can do splits, pull ups and moves like a ballerina... yet she's very overweight but still more fit than I am and super healthy.
But promoting an unhealthy lifestyle with bad food choices and no exercise, now that's a whole different thing.
Being fat doesn't equal being unhealthy or unfit
Being skinny doesn't equal being healthy or fit
You can be skinny but very unhealthy
You can be fat and unhealthy
But you can also be skinny + fit and healthy and you can be fat + fit and healthy.
I think you're just starting your fitness journey and that you've got lot's to learn.
True.0 -
purebredpolly wrote: »Guess what? I went to the doctor today to review my blood workup, turns out them adjusting my thyroid meds for my Grave disease, coupled with the onset of menopause has made it impossible for my weight to budge despite following a strict diet for over a year. I eat really healthy, my LDL is 114. My blood sugar is a 6.6. My blood pressure was 117/76. But I am 212 pounds by his scale today. He said there are a few medications that might help me shed a few pounds, but the side effects could be devastating to my health, and he would not recommend me taking them. Turns out my risk factors are higher using this medication, and being at a lower weight, than me remaining the same weight I am now, and continuing to eat a healthy diet.
So what does that mean? That means I better get on board with fat acceptance, and learn how to love myself at this size, and continue to take care of myself as I have been.
Sometimes I think it's important to think before one speaks about such things. You don't agree with fat acceptance for yourself, well and fine by me, don't be fat then. But don't be putting it off on other folks. You don't know what a person's story is, or why they are fat, and running that anti fat acceptance speech is very unhelpful to folks like me just trying to make it through the day by eating healthy, and keeping the calories down so the scale does not go higher. Think before you speak why don't you!
Well said! I like it.0 -
purebredpolly wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »purebredpolly wrote: »Today my endocrinologist told me I needed to start eating more calories because my reduction of calories is so low that my createen (spelling?) Was too low as a result of my lowering my calories so far down that I am not getting enough protein, and that I am in dangerous waters because my calories were too low. I suppose I could lower my calories further and could eventually lower them enough to lose weight, but according to the endocrinologist I am risking organ failure by having my calories as low as I have been. But you are right, and my specialist is wrong, of that I'm sure. You just forgot to tell me have a medical degree, and specialize in my medical condition. I stand corrected. How about you assist the doctors when I get the heart transplant, and you can tell them what they are doing wrong?
I don't actually believe a word you're typing.
Your prerogative, and not my responsibility to convince you. Facts, are facts, and my friends I've had here on MFP have walked the road with me from the start, so those that matter know the truth. You are inconsequential, and I don't know why I engaged you. Believe what you want, and feel free to have the last word.
Exactly!0 -
wsandy8512 wrote: »I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.
Agreed. This, I understand. No need to bash skinny people, we are all different.
You say this but your post up above you refer to girls you ran with as "little toothpick shaped high school runners" and "it seemed so many other people my age were toothpicks"...to me, that's not a compliment and is more in the bashing category.10 -
BurlzGettingFit wrote: »wsandy8512 wrote: »I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.
Agreed. This, I understand. No need to bash skinny people, we are all different.
You say this but your post up above you refer to girls you ran with as "little toothpick shaped high school runners" and "it seemed so many other people my age were toothpicks"...to me, that's not a compliment and is more in the bashing category.
True, I'll acknowledge that one. I'm sorry about that one. I was getting worked up about it and used the wrong words. I really don't like this social media part of this thing and can't stop logging back on to this thing. This issue is a really sensitive issue and I'm sure there are plenty of women that feel bad about themselves for being skinny also.
1 -
BurlzGettingFit wrote: »wsandy8512 wrote: »I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.
Agreed. This, I understand. No need to bash skinny people, we are all different.
You say this but your post up above you refer to girls you ran with as "little toothpick shaped high school runners" and "it seemed so many other people my age were toothpicks"...to me, that's not a compliment and is more in the bashing category.
True, I'll acknowledge that one. I'm sorry about that one. I was getting worked up about it and used the wrong words. I really don't like this social media part of this thing and can't stop logging back on to this thing. This issue is a really sensitive issue and I'm sure there are plenty of women that feel bad about themselves for being skinny also.
Fair enough, happens to all of us!1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I agree that being overweight is not ideal and eventually leads to health issues.
Which is why HAES is a lie, and fat acceptance is death acceptance.Does anyone want to see an eff-ing medical miracle? This is my blood work from a couple of months ago before I got back on the wagon. I procrastinated about getting my blood work because I thought for sure being obese would have caught up to me by now. This is my blood work copied and pasted from the online database...pretty cool that we can look up our results online now, rather than just wait for the doctor to say the numbers were normal, or not, or whatever.
There are a lot of 41 year old smokers who don't have cancer, emphysema and COPD yet.
THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE? EVERYONE ON HERE IS TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT, OR GAIN WEIGHT, OR SOMETHING..... DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HATE OURSELVES FOR IT, OR ACCEPT OURSELVES, IS NONSENSE. PEOPLE PLEASE MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I'M REALLY JUST ON HERE TO LOG MY DIET AND EXERCISE AND I DIDN'T EXPECT THIS. I DON'T DO SOCIAL MEDIA BUT IT SEEMS EVERYTHING IS SOCIAL MEDIA THESE DAYS.
Yet you choose to put your health history on a public forum and get offended when someone comments on it?
Actually, no one commented on my medical history, my actual blood work results. I just was upset about it when I woke up this morning and figured no-one believed me, so I shared it. I can't delete it now. I can't get this stupid thing out of my head, that's why I don't do social media. Not sure why I looked this post up again. Anyway, I was talking about people being overly concerned about other people being fat, people should mind their own business about that and just look the other way, you don't know what that person is going through.0 -
calorielogonly wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I agree that being overweight is not ideal and eventually leads to health issues.
Which is why HAES is a lie, and fat acceptance is death acceptance.Does anyone want to see an eff-ing medical miracle? This is my blood work from a couple of months ago before I got back on the wagon. I procrastinated about getting my blood work because I thought for sure being obese would have caught up to me by now. This is my blood work copied and pasted from the online database...pretty cool that we can look up our results online now, rather than just wait for the doctor to say the numbers were normal, or not, or whatever.
There are a lot of 41 year old smokers who don't have cancer, emphysema and COPD yet.
THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE? EVERYONE ON HERE IS TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT, OR GAIN WEIGHT, OR SOMETHING..... DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HATE OURSELVES FOR IT, OR ACCEPT OURSELVES, IS NONSENSE. PEOPLE PLEASE MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I'M REALLY JUST ON HERE TO LOG MY DIET AND EXERCISE AND I DIDN'T EXPECT THIS. I DON'T DO SOCIAL MEDIA BUT IT SEEMS EVERYTHING IS SOCIAL MEDIA THESE DAYS.
Yet you choose to put your health history on a public forum and get offended when someone comments on it?
Actually, no one commented on my medical history, my actual blood work results. I just was upset about it when I woke up this morning and figured no-one believed me, so I shared it. I can't delete it now. I can't get this stupid thing out of my head, that's why I don't do social media. Not sure why I looked this post up again. Anyway, I was talking about people being overly concerned about other people being fat, people should mind their own business about that and just look the other way, you don't know what that person is going through.
I understand and am sorry you feel like that. These discussions tend to make me feel a bit that way too.
I think it helps to realize that mostly (not entirely) these discussions are people talking past each other, which is why I reposted my comments from page one. If someone came up to me and claimed that obesity was not a health risk (although why they would do that is unclear, so I am a bit skeptical always), I would politely disagree. On a blog I used to read (political, mostly) there was one blogger who would occasionally push the "the obesity epidemic is largely made up and people cannot lose weight" thing, and he would overwhelmingly get push back from the readers of the blog, and I think I responded too, as I disagree.
On the whole, though, I think that people who tend to feel self-hate and shame associated with obesity (and we are talking long term obesity, or at least more than "oh my goodness, I didn't realize how fat I'd gotten"), often tend to be LESS likely to change if they focus on how much they suck for being fat and how awful they are and are MORE likely to make positive improvements (and lose weight) once they accept themselves as worthwhile people who can do so, and to me that's the positive side of self acceptance or body positivity -- also, for many focusing on the body as what it can do, being healthy, and not mostly physical appearance.
Feeling better about myself helped me lose weight, and so did dealing with my fear that I was someone who just couldn't by focusing on the things I could do, eat well and be active. (Of course I did lose weight.)
I don't have a history of yoyo dieting, but I see a lot of truth in what some of the anti diet people say too, with respect to those people's experiences, and for the ones I am most familiar with (Isabel Foxen Duke and Laura Fraser) not dieting does NOT mean being fat. It's a way to get to a healthier approach to food and fitness.7 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.5 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
to be fair, many people do find overweight / obese people beautiful. you may not, and you don't have to, but you can't extrapolate that to everyone. and more important than you finding an obese person beautiful is the ability and support for an obese person to find themselves beautiful. quite a few people, including some in this thread, have credited the body positive movement for allowing them to do so. fat acceptance =/= "zomg you have to love me" it's more of "zomg it's ok to love myself even if i don't look the way i want to / fit into traditional standards"
if you want to talk about fringe voices shouting (albeit loudly) that it's healthy to be morbidly obese and those who want to lose weight are traitors to the cause, you can. i don't think that examining the extreme sides of any 'movement' is going to give a great idea about what the majority who appreciate it are thinking.
these threads in some ways are exactly like the CICO / Nutrition threads. one side is saying "calories for weightloss" and the other side is saying "you can't eat donuts all day, it's unhealthy!" as if they are the same conversation. there's the same kind of disconnect here.
edited for clarity11 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.9 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
I don't think that will happen. I don't see much risk of it at all. Are there any states that have bills doing this that are anywhere in the process that we could look at?
Of course, even if such discrimination were made illegal, there would be an exception if there's a legitimate business reason for it, of course, but I also would be against adding weight to the (quite limited) list of things on which employment decisions cannot be based. I think it's unnecessary and would cause more harm than it would avoid.2 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »these threads in some ways are exactly like the CICO / Nutrition threads. one side is saying "calories for weightloss" and the other side is saying "you can't eat donuts all day, it's unhealthy!" as if they are the same conversation. there's the same kind of disconnect here.
This is so true.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I agree that being overweight is not ideal and eventually leads to health issues.
Which is why HAES is a lie, and fat acceptance is death acceptance.Does anyone want to see an eff-ing medical miracle? This is my blood work from a couple of months ago before I got back on the wagon. I procrastinated about getting my blood work because I thought for sure being obese would have caught up to me by now. This is my blood work copied and pasted from the online database...pretty cool that we can look up our results online now, rather than just wait for the doctor to say the numbers were normal, or not, or whatever.
There are a lot of 41 year old smokers who don't have cancer, emphysema and COPD yet.
THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE? EVERYONE ON HERE IS TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT, OR GAIN WEIGHT, OR SOMETHING..... DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HATE OURSELVES FOR IT, OR ACCEPT OURSELVES, IS NONSENSE. PEOPLE PLEASE MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I'M REALLY JUST ON HERE TO LOG MY DIET AND EXERCISE AND I DIDN'T EXPECT THIS. I DON'T DO SOCIAL MEDIA BUT IT SEEMS EVERYTHING IS SOCIAL MEDIA THESE DAYS.
Yet you choose to put your health history on a public forum and get offended when someone comments on it?
Actually, no one commented on my medical history, my actual blood work results. I just was upset about it when I woke up this morning and figured no-one believed me, so I shared it. I can't delete it now. I can't get this stupid thing out of my head, that's why I don't do social media. Not sure why I looked this post up again. Anyway, I was talking about people being overly concerned about other people being fat, people should mind their own business about that and just look the other way, you don't know what that person is going through.
I understand and am sorry you feel like that. These discussions tend to make me feel a bit that way too.
I think it helps to realize that mostly (not entirely) these discussions are people talking past each other, which is why I reposted my comments from page one. If someone came up to me and claimed that obesity was not a health risk (although why they would do that is unclear, so I am a bit skeptical always), I would politely disagree. On a blog I used to read (political, mostly) there was one blogger who would occasionally push the "the obesity epidemic is largely made up and people cannot lose weight" thing, and he would overwhelmingly get push back from the readers of the blog, and I think I responded too, as I disagree.
On the whole, though, I think that people who tend to feel self-hate and shame associated with obesity (and we are talking long term obesity, or at least more than "oh my goodness, I didn't realize how fat I'd gotten"), often tend to be LESS likely to change if they focus on how much they suck for being fat and how awful they are and are MORE likely to make positive improvements (and lose weight) once they accept themselves as worthwhile people who can do so, and to me that's the positive side of self acceptance or body positivity -- also, for many focusing on the body as what it can do, being healthy, and not mostly physical appearance.
Feeling better about myself helped me lose weight, and so did dealing with my fear that I was someone who just couldn't by focusing on the things I could do, eat well and be active. (Of course I did lose weight.)
I don't have a history of yoyo dieting, but I see a lot of truth in what some of the anti diet people say too, with respect to those people's experiences, and for the ones I am most familiar with (Isabel Foxen Duke and Laura Fraser) not dieting does NOT mean being fat. It's a way to get to a healthier approach to food and fitness.
Thank you0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
2 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
IF you can hump your gear, plus your weight, plus the weight of another person, what's the issue??
I'm less concerned about the moderately overweight fireman being able to do his job than the under BMI nurse who may have to move the same patient.5 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
Wouldn't that be a fitness issue? Police officers and fire fighters have fitness tests. That wouldn't change if it became illegal to discriminate against overweight people. We'd eliminating the possibility of the presumption that overweight people are automatically unfit by the mere virtue of being overweight.
I fully anticipate that many (if not most) overweight people would fail the fitness tests. But since we have the test in place for those roles, why not go by that?5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
I don't think that would happen, though. Anti-discrimination laws focus on things that are an immutable part of us - gender, race, disability, age. The only exception I can think of is religion, and that one's rooted in a long and convoluted history of relationships between church and state (speaking only of the US) that wouldn't be applicable to weight.* There are no anti-discrimination laws requiring companies to hire smokers (at least in CA, and please correct me if I'm wrong elsewhere), and no requirement to accommodate the habit. Same with alcoholics and substance abusers.
*Unless, of course, HAES set itself up as a religion, which would make for some wildly entertaining law antics.1 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
EMTs, surgeons, train conductors, airline pilots, flight attendants and a host of other jobs that are physically demanding mean obesity affects performance.
One man already sued a railroad because he was so obese that they were concerned about the strain of the job killing him an declined to hire, so he claimed discrimination. Thankfully he lost because obesity is not a disability.
That doesn't even get into the structural accommodations that have to be made in workplaces: reinforced chairs, toilets that can hold hundreds of pounds, larger restroom stalls, more elevators, transport on multi-building campuses for employees who literally can't walk from one to the next. Obese employees have higher rates of absenteeism than do normal weight employees.6 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
EMTs, surgeons, train conductors, airline pilots, flight attendants and a host of other jobs that are physically demanding mean obesity affects performance.
One man already sued a railroad because he was so obese that they were concerned about the strain of the job killing him an declined to hire, so he claimed discrimination. Thankfully he lost because obesity is not a disability.
That doesn't even get into the structural accommodations that have to be made in workplaces: reinforced chairs, toilets that can hold hundreds of pounds, larger restroom stalls, more elevators, transport on multi-building campuses for employees who literally can't walk from one to the next. Obese employees have higher rates of absenteeism than do normal weight employees.
i'd like to see a source for the bolded.
for the rest, i'm just gonna let it go. i know from previous threads that you're level of tolerance is super low for overweight people. i wonder though, if you'd rally so hard against accommodations like wheelchair ramps or disabled access bathroom stalls, or maybe we should reserve the use of those amenities to people who had no part in incurring their injuries.
you can use this restroom as long as you weren't a bungee jumper, mountain climber or drunk driver injured during your activities.6 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »calorielogonly wrote: »THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?
That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.
What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.
As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.
The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.
In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.
policemen? firemen?
EMTs, surgeons, train conductors, airline pilots, flight attendants and a host of other jobs that are physically demanding mean obesity affects performance.
One man already sued a railroad because he was so obese that they were concerned about the strain of the job killing him an declined to hire, so he claimed discrimination. Thankfully he lost because obesity is not a disability.
That doesn't even get into the structural accommodations that have to be made in workplaces: reinforced chairs, toilets that can hold hundreds of pounds, larger restroom stalls, more elevators, transport on multi-building campuses for employees who literally can't walk from one to the next. Obese employees have higher rates of absenteeism than do normal weight employees.
i'd like to see a source for the bolded.
for the rest, i'm just gonna let it go. i know from previous threads that you're level of tolerance is super low for overweight people. i wonder though, if you'd rally so hard against accommodations like wheelchair ramps or disabled access bathroom stalls, or maybe we should reserve the use of those amenities to people who had no part in incurring their injuries.
you can use this restroom as long as you weren't a bungee jumper, mountain climber or drunk driver injured during your activities.
https://www.acoem.org/obesitydrain.aspx2
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions