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I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.
misshoneyz2dab
Posts: 62 Member
in Debate Club
I'm 5'4 and I weigh 13 stones 4lbs ( 188lbs) and I want to be 10 stones (140lbs) I've lost 21 lbs so far.
I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness. Overweight and Obesity can lead to type 2 diabetes, hypertension, . hypercholesterolemia, stroke, joint pains and CHD.
Two years ago when I went for a blood test. My blood cholesterol level was 5.2 that was all to do with my unhealthy lifestyle and weight. That was a wake up call for me.
When I critique the plus size and fat acceptance movement, I get accused of being a shallow bully. I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I'm a plus size woman and I'm not happy with my size or health. I'm doing a lot about my weight.
I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness. Overweight and Obesity can lead to type 2 diabetes, hypertension, . hypercholesterolemia, stroke, joint pains and CHD.
Two years ago when I went for a blood test. My blood cholesterol level was 5.2 that was all to do with my unhealthy lifestyle and weight. That was a wake up call for me.
When I critique the plus size and fat acceptance movement, I get accused of being a shallow bully. I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I'm a plus size woman and I'm not happy with my size or health. I'm doing a lot about my weight.
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Replies
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When I was heavier, I had bad knee pains and had gout on my feet. They all subsided when I lost some weight.17
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misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I wouldn't say that. It is possible to be fat and in good health but it is statistically less likely than being at an appropriate weight and healthy - it's playing the odds.
Movements tend to be defined by their leaders and / or loudest voices. The big problem with much "social justice" type activism these days is the militancy of the parts of them which gets the most airtime and in my opinion is a huge turn off for all but the true believers. Fat acceptance / body positivity seems to have fallen into that trap which is a shame as think that with a more reasonable approach it could do a fair amount of good and lessen prejudicial attitudes which conflate weight and moral virtue and human worth.67 -
Respectfully, I think this misstates the movement a bit. The body positivity movement isn't about promoting being heavy, it's about teaching women to love themselves, and rejecting impossible body standards. You hear about super models eating 500 calories a day because a size 2 is too big, and that's not healthy either. My favorite body positive writer, Lindy West, always writes that it's just about loving yourself enough to treat your body with dignity and respect. Maybe you want to lose weight (I know I do), but hating yourself the whole time you're on the journey for not being thin enough is no way to live.
I hate being overweight, and I have every health problem that comes with it. But I don't think it's a bad thing to encourage people to love themselves through ever step of the journey.
Oh and for the record, I don't think you sound like a shallow bully at all. Your view comes from a good place--that is that obesity is not a good or healthy lifestyle. I just think the movement is about accepting that we all come in different shapes and sizes, and overweight people are still worthy of love.152 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness.
These threads always seem to become a debate about what the fat acceptance people claim, in part because many of us are not that familiar with them, in part because we mix them up with body positive or "love yourself" or who knows what groups/people or the anti diet people (who IME aren't always about not losing weight).
To the extent we are referring to people who say that obesity is not a health risk, then of course they are wrong.
I don't find many people who actually think obesity is not a health risk unless I seek them out online, but this could be geographic or generational, who knows.When I critique the plus size and fat acceptance movement, I get accused of being a shallow bully.
To whom and in what context do you do this?9 -
I'm still over 27 stone but I have the resting heart rate of an athlete and my cholesterol and glucose levels are perfect so, actually, you can be fat and healthy.
The only health issue I do have is high blood pressure *but* even my doc and a specialist have said that isn't weight related because it doesn't respond to medication very well (though I would argue it probably plays a part).
I don't think we should be saying "hoorah for being fat" but then I don't think we should be saying "hoorah for not being fat". I think it should just be "hoorah for being a human being" irregardless of any societal imposed labels. And, as others have said, loving and accepting others without judgement whatever shape or form they come in.
Remember, it wasn't that long ago that those who were what we consider to be a healthy weight now were looked down upon as poor people as they obviously couldn't afford to eat. And that's just looking at the issue from a Western viewpoint.
That being said, I do know that being overweight can have implications. Of course it can. I just realise everybody is different and affected differently. Depends if you look at things with sweeping generalisations or not I guess.43 -
I don't ever find myself deeply involved in the health or weight of those not in my immediate family. I'm having trouble picturing the context that this would even happen in. Not my bidness...36
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Didn't we already beat this horse to death and then some? My opinion is that people should love themselves enough to be happy and if that involves losing weight - great! If it doesn't, also great! If you're constantly being called a bully for talking about someone's weight, perhaps you're giving advice/opinions without being asked? You're free to your opinion but the person receiving said opinion has the right to tell you what you can do with it. Someone going around "critiquing" someone else's weight, especially without being asked, is being a bully to say the least.39
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ErinMichelle31 wrote: »Respectfully, I think this misstates the movement a bit. The body positivity movement isn't about promoting being heavy, it's about teaching women to love themselves, and rejecting impossible body standards. You hear about super models eating 500 calories a day because a size 2 is too big, and that's not healthy either. My favorite body positive writer, Lindy West, always writes that it's just about loving yourself enough to treat your body with dignity and respect. Maybe you want to lose weight (I know I do), but hating yourself the whole time you're on the journey for not being thin enough is no way to live.
I hate being overweight, and I have every health problem that comes with it. But I don't think it's a bad thing to encourage people to love themselves through ever step of the journey.
Oh and for the record, I don't think you sound like a shallow bully at all. Your view comes from a good place--that is that obesity is not a good or healthy lifestyle. I just think the movement is about accepting that we all come in different shapes and sizes, and overweight people are still worthy of love.
You've been hanging around different HAES and fat acceptance people then.
I got shut out of a HAES circle I just broke into, thinking I found women who understood about being morbidly obese and dealing with the stuff that comes with being that heavy. Mention how you feel it's okay to lose weight and watch them slam the door in your face. So much for support.
OP, if you don't like HAES, fat acceptance, whatever you call it, that's cool. Stay away from those people and the drama goes away.16 -
ErinMichelle31 wrote: »Respectfully, I think this misstates the movement a bit. The body positivity movement isn't about promoting being heavy, it's about teaching women to love themselves, and rejecting impossible body standards. You hear about super models eating 500 calories a day because a size 2 is too big, and that's not healthy either. My favorite body positive writer, Lindy West, always writes that it's just about loving yourself enough to treat your body with dignity and respect. Maybe you want to lose weight (I know I do), but hating yourself the whole time you're on the journey for not being thin enough is no way to live.
I hate being overweight, and I have every health problem that comes with it. But I don't think it's a bad thing to encourage people to love themselves through ever step of the journey.
Oh and for the record, I don't think you sound like a shallow bully at all. Your view comes from a good place--that is that obesity is not a good or healthy lifestyle. I just think the movement is about accepting that we all come in different shapes and sizes, and overweight people are still worthy of love.
You've been hanging around different HAES and fat acceptance people then.
I got shut out of a HAES circle I just broke into, thinking I found women who understood about being morbidly obese and dealing with the stuff that comes with being that heavy. Mention how you feel it's okay to lose weight and watch them slam the door in your face. So much for support.
OP, if you don't like HAES, fat acceptance, whatever you call it, that's cool. Stay away from those people and the drama goes away.
Every village has its idiots. Sorry they treated you badly.14 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I wouldn't say that. It is possible to be fat and in good health but it is statistically less likely than being at an appropriate weight and healthy - it's playing the odds.
Movements tend to be defined by their leaders and / or loudest voices. The big problem with much "social justice" type activism these days is the militancy of the parts of them which gets the most airtime and in my opinion is a huge turn off for all but the true believers. Fat acceptance / body positivity seems to have fallen into that trap which is a shame as think that with a more reasonable approach it could do a fair amount of good and lessen prejudicial attitudes which conflate weight and moral virtue and human worth.
I would agree with this point. The loudest radical voices will always get the most attention, but rarely offer an accurate presentation of the population.
The core problem with all social justice movements is that it is not just. Social justice blames those who have done no wrong and celebrates those who have not been wronged.7 -
This debate is all over the Internet and social media lately and I'm not exactly sure why. Honestly, I've been overweight for most of my life and I've NEVER been ok with it. I think I'm a great person with a lot to offer people but I've never, at any point, thought it was ok to be morbidly obese. There was a time when I accepted that I would be fat forever but I wasn't happy about it nor even content.
The idea that you can be morbidly obese and healthy is ridiculous. Perhaps we will show no damage for a time but eventually all of these extra pounds will wear on us. My health markers are all excellent except for high blood pressure. But I'm 38....with high blood pressure. Who cares if my cholesterol and BG levels are amazing? I'm still a ticking time bomb until all that levels out and I get to a normal weight. So is every other morbidly obese individual. Celebrating obesity in any way misses the point entirely and, in my opinion, is dangerous.
Love yourself, lose the weight, and live your life.29 -
I see way more people arguing with, essentially, no one here that it's not okay to be morbidly obese. I really don't see anyone here saying that it's healthy to be obese, let alone morbidly so (the name kind of gives it away, no?).
I know, of course, that there are people who DO argue that, but I think they aren't mainstream, and unless I've missed it they aren't here.6 -
You wrote, "I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness."
I cannot agree more. It upsets me tremendously when I see posts that support deadly behaviors of any kind.
The statements that promote obesity is beautiful upset me the most. I see inflammation and other fatal issues. It is not just about whether cellulite is visually unattractive. I think about those veins and arteries that have to grow, and are stretching and begging for nutrients and oxygen -- the heart pleading for the fat to be burnt off.. and I could go on about that.
It is emotionally healthy to have appropriate pride in ourselves. This movement does not even address that in a healthy manner though. To say in an obese state, "I am fine as I am" is denial. To deny and refuse to acknowledge we have downfalls to work, and sometimes that is our life long battles such as the deadly obesity issues, is not healthy physically, mentally or emotionally.
To say obesity is better than or worse than another evil - anorexia is silly. That is irrelevant. They are both deadly illnesses. They are are both (usually - excluding very rare medical conditions) behavioral issues that really need to be addressed to live a productive, longer, more energized life.
My mother is over 300 pounds. Every female in my family either struggle to stay a reasonable weight or give up and suffer dreadful medical and life destroying sadness. We call it suicide by food.
Rant over. oh wait.. I hope these very profitable campaigns end soon. The attorneys promoting the benefits of marajuna have stopped their campaign, but I am thinking these are promoted by clothing marketers - it could be endless.
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misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I wouldn't say that. It is possible to be fat and in good health but it is statistically less likely than being at an appropriate weight and healthy - it's playing the odds.
Movements tend to be defined by their leaders and / or loudest voices. The big problem with much "social justice" type activism these days is the militancy of the parts of them which gets the most airtime and in my opinion is a huge turn off for all but the true believers. Fat acceptance / body positivity seems to have fallen into that trap which is a shame as think that with a more reasonable approach it could do a fair amount of good and lessen prejudicial attitudes which conflate weight and moral virtue and human worth.
It is possible to be fat and healthy for a short period of time. Prolonged obesity is nearly guaranteed to cause a multitude of chronic diseases. It's like saying that wearing a seatbelt isn't 100% going to protect you. It's not much of a debate in that regard.
So therefore, the debate isn't about if it's healthy to be fat. It's if it's socially acceptable to embrace it. As a public health issue (crisis, actually) we are in no place to embrace it. However, it is also true that being obese doesn't make anyone any less worthy or human than someone of a healthy weight. The same can be said about someone who smokes.17 -
I'm still over 27 stone but I have the resting heart rate of an athlete and my cholesterol and glucose levels are perfect so, actually, you can be fat and healthy.
Yeah, this.... I'm trying to lose weight to get my blood pressure and resting heart rate under control. I was/am definitely overweight, but I actually know quite a few people much heavier than I was who have good blood pressure, cholesterol, heart rates, etc. Everything else being equal it's likely healthier to be at good weight (not overweight but not too thin either) but so much else comes into it too, genetics, pre-existing conditions and so on. There's a good chance that even when I hit my goal weight my blood pressure will still be a touch on the high side, just from genetics (everyone in my family pretty much has high blood pressure).1 -
Self awareness is one of the first steps to achieving your goals. Well done and good luck
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Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply. Im pretty neutral and focused on allllll the areas I can improve in my own life. We all have a drug. For some people its over spending and being in financial ruin. For some its donuts. I think were all a hot mess on so many levels. Just offer grace, understanding and/or mind your business.
It took me a lonnggg time to get so fed up with my weight, I wanted to do something about it. This idea that everyone is going to get there is false. So yay for plus size movements. If losing weight isnt a priority, try to embrace it. I love people who are honest. The weight isn't going anywhere. I went years without going to the beach. I went years feeling like I wasn't enough because I failed at being healthy. I don't make excuses. But I messed up. People mess up. But we're still worthy. Thats what the movement is for me.
Get out the house, try new things.... don't let your body and the way it looks hold you back. If you aren't a size 6 or smaller, you're expected to feel ugly, hate your guts and analyze everything that goes in your mouth. How dare you eat a skittle? Obese people can't be happy? They know the risk of their choices. Let it go. When I see a plus sized woman on the beach in a bikini, Im not celebrating her risk of stroke, heart attack, diabetes. Im celebrating the yassssssss that this woman doesn't give a crap about society's standards/opinions of how she should be wearing a moomoo and cover up and hating her life each day.38 -
Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese?
Because when someone is obese, it doesn't just affect them. It affects the doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters and physical therapists who have to be able to lift and carry other people. It means career ending back injuries for some of these professionals, and increased casualties in an emergency because obese people with poor mobility have clogged fire escapes and emergency exits. Treating obesity induced disease costs our healthcare system millions of dollars a year. Insulin for Type 1 diabetics has become more expensive as the demand for insulin is increased by those who have obesity induced and completely preventable Type 2 diabetes. Medical equipment, operating rooms, gurneys, hospital beds, ambulances all have to be made bigger and stronger to accommodate the obese. It affects funeral homes when an obese person has to be buried. It results in increased fuel expenditures in everything from personal vehicles to airplanes, which means more carbon emissions. It affects the people who have to sit next to them on public transportation like trains and airplanes who now suddenly cannot use the entire seat that they paid for - because someone else is taking up half of it. It means that vehicles that have to be designed to keep obese people safer in an accident may end up being more dangerous to those who aren't obese. It means that clothing sizes shift over time and that I can't find things that fit because what used to be a large is now a small and what was a small would have to be a size XXS.
When someone is obese it doesn't just affect them. It affects all of us in a lot of ways.27 -
Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
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I think the fat acceptance movement is a double edged sword. I don't believe anyone should ever, under ANY circumstance, be made to feel bad for their appearance, but I can see how it from your pov too. I guess common sense should prevail. Don't be ashamed about being overweight, but please take steps to be healthy.7
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Happiness is not a number on a scale. You can be happy at any weight. Not everyone wants to be small, or muscular, or skinny, or big, or curvy, or whatever. Everyone is different, everyone has different opinions and I don't make fun of or force my opinion on others. I also think this movement is more about some who got sick of being bullied and made fun of just because of their size. I do believe good health would be the best option, of course, however what that looks like to one may not be the same for another.
Recently I have come across people who have food sensitivities and celiac disease and it's hard for them to lose weight. I never even had allergies so, of course, it's hard to look at things from their point of view. But it's opened my eyes.11 -
HAs anyone ever read about the intense flaming the blogger The Sugar Monster got when she posted that she was having WLS?? She was eviscerated by the Fat Acceptance community that had hitherto supported her. Some of the comments were wishing she would die on the op table, etc.
So yes, I take umbrage at the insane crabs-in-a-bucket behaviour that comes out of some of the Fat Acceptance movement. Some of the most vocal FA purporters get personally on my nerves (see: Virgie Tovar).
However... people just being happy in their own skin doesn't bother me.
I prefer Body Positivity to Fat Positivity, to be honest.17 -
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Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
It's an internet thing. I've only run into them by seeking them out on the internet after hearing about them here. I think if you frequent certain segments of the internet they may seem more popular than they are (maybe also if you watch some TV show that I forget the name of "Fat and Happy" or some such). I've seen way more anti them than pro them -- blogs that slam some HAES person who does seem delusional, for example. It's kind of like how I never knew Freelee and all her weird eat 87 bananas a day friends were popular until I came here, but if you hang out in certain parts of YouTube you think everyone is a fruitarian and thinks that eating only fruit (and crazy calories) is the ideal.
So I will refer back to my post early in this thread:lemurcat12 wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness.
These threads always seem to become a debate about what the fat acceptance people claim, in part because many of us are not that familiar with them, in part because we mix them up with body positive or "love yourself" or who knows what groups/people or the anti diet people (who IME aren't always about not losing weight).
To the extent we are referring to people who say that obesity is not a health risk, then of course they are wrong.
I don't find many people who actually think obesity is not a health risk unless I seek them out online, but this could be geographic or generational, who knows.3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese?
Because when someone is obese, it doesn't just affect them. It affects the doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters and physical therapists who have to be able to lift and carry other people. It means career ending back injuries for some of these professionals, and increased casualties in an emergency because obese people with poor mobility have clogged fire escapes and emergency exits. Treating obesity induced disease costs our healthcare system millions of dollars a year. Insulin for Type 1 diabetics has become more expensive as the demand for insulin is increased by those who have obesity induced and completely preventable Type 2 diabetes. Medical equipment, operating rooms, gurneys, hospital beds, ambulances all have to be made bigger and stronger to accommodate the obese. It affects funeral homes when an obese person has to be buried. It results in increased fuel expenditures in everything from personal vehicles to airplanes, which means more carbon emissions. It affects the people who have to sit next to them on public transportation like trains and airplanes who now suddenly cannot use the entire seat that they paid for - because someone else is taking up half of it. It means that vehicles that have to be designed to keep obese people safer in an accident may end up being more dangerous to those who aren't obese. It means that clothing sizes shift over time and that I can't find things that fit because what used to be a large is now a small and what was a small would have to be a size XXS.
When someone is obese it doesn't just affect them. It affects all of us in a lot of ways.
Lots of things affect lots of people indirectly, it still doesn't change the fact that a person's weight and the level of happiness attached to it is their business. You absolutely have the right to be annoyed and say something, but they have a right to not care about your opinion and tell you where you may put it. If a person doesn't like the response they're receiving about a subject, they may want to reconsider their approach, especially if it happens often.11 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.19 -
I think this article sums it up pretty well:
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/35746/1/how-body-positivity-lost-its-true-and-radical-meaning
This discussion is turning a lot on whether to not it is possible to be overweight and healthy, but as she points out here"
“Health has become the stick with which to beat fat people with, and the benchmark for whether body positivity should include someone.”
I think the point is that the body positivity movement rejects the notion that society has the right to judge and reject people based on appearances. I saw one commenter say something to the effect of "but who pays for it?" So? If that's your argument then shouldn't we also treat smokers, extreme mountain climbers, and people who use tanning beds the same way? We all want to be healthy or stronger or thinner or we wouldn't be here, but we don't have the right to judge another person and their choices based on how they look. That's what body positivity means to me. As she also points out, though we cite health to shame fat people, if health really mattered to us so much as a society, we wouldn't be making constant cuts to it.
Anyway, I want to be thinner and healthier, but I also want to do it for me, and not because society tells me I have to.18 -
mommarnurse wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I wouldn't say that. It is possible to be fat and in good health but it is statistically less likely than being at an appropriate weight and healthy - it's playing the odds.
Movements tend to be defined by their leaders and / or loudest voices. The big problem with much "social justice" type activism these days is the militancy of the parts of them which gets the most airtime and in my opinion is a huge turn off for all but the true believers. Fat acceptance / body positivity seems to have fallen into that trap which is a shame as think that with a more reasonable approach it could do a fair amount of good and lessen prejudicial attitudes which conflate weight and moral virtue and human worth.
It is possible to be fat and healthy for a short period of time. Prolonged obesity is nearly guaranteed to cause a multitude of chronic diseases. It's like saying that wearing a seatbelt isn't 100% going to protect you. It's not much of a debate in that regard.
So therefore, the debate isn't about if it's healthy to be fat. It's if it's socially acceptable to embrace it. As a public health issue (crisis, actually) we are in no place to embrace it. However, it is also true that being obese doesn't make anyone any less worthy or human than someone of a healthy weight. The same can be said about someone who smokes.
I'm healthier now at 33.5 than I was at 22. I'm currently trying to get back down to 30. But I see no significant health benefit to getting beyond that.
I know that everyone is different, but using terms like "guaranteed" isn't productive.1 -
When I graduated from high school in 1971, I applied for a job at a major communications company. I was required to see the company nurse and my being hired was dependent upon my agreeing to lose 15 lbs. She said my weight was a liability and would cost the company more in health insurance coverage. Here I am years later - high blood pressure medication, aching knees and back - fighting the battle of the bulge; a big, big bulge. I must take responsibility for how I got here and make the changes necessary to have a healthy life. When I complete this journey I will be no better or worse than anyone else. I will never judge. I've been there, I am there, and one never knows where the future will take us.1
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To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.15
This discussion has been closed.
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