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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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Yes. You're a martyr. You'll be blessed in the after life then.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
6 -
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.8 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
It creates a cycle of poverty that never ends because of learned helplessness. There is a reason why any national park prohibits the feeding of wild animals.
Yes. You're a martyr. You'll be blessed in the after life then.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
I don't need to dream of an afterlife that doesn't exist. I learned to earn the things I want here.
How's the weight loss going?2 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
So you're also against things like, public education, fire departments, libraries... roads? You really think individuals should completely provide for themselves?
And I go to work (almost) every day and work hard because I can see the value in that work. I like doing interesting things that help others. And I don't think I'm particularly unusual in that. If I didn't have any bills to pay, I would almost certainly be similarly active - though I would probably devote more of my time to additional learning.8 -
By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.0
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clicketykeys wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
So you're also against things like, public education, fire departments, libraries... roads? You really think individuals should completely provide for themselves?
And I go to work (almost) every day and work hard because I can see the value in that work. I like doing interesting things that help others. And I don't think I'm particularly unusual in that. If I didn't have any bills to pay, I would almost certainly be similarly active - though I would probably devote more of my time to additional learning.
Do you give every cent you earn above basic survival away to other people so that they can have a nice lifestyle, or do you provide yourself a nice lifestyle first?2 -
CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?
No one dies from not having the other forms of insurance.
I have several genetic factors that I can do nothing about - there are no lifestyle changes that will make them less of a problem. The medications to keep me relatively healthy in spite of these is billed to my insurance at roughly USD 50,000 a year.
Without them, I die. It's that simple.
How high is enough for my insurance?5 -
CipherZero wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?
No one dies from not having the other forms of insurance.
Lots of people do die of their poor decisions, though.1 -
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor
)
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!2 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
Being from Canada it still shocks me to even imagine having to pay that for a hospital visit.9 -
So many great posts!
In general, overweight and obese people tend to have more health problems, which costs a lot of money to treat. Therefore they should have higher insurance premiums. By this logic, I am a woman, and my husband an I are going to try and start a family in the next few years. Pregnancy is expensive, with prenatal care, appointments, labs, and then the actual birth. I may need a c-section and the baby may need to be in a NICU, which could cost millions. Therefore, I should have higher insurance premiums. See were I am going with this?
This is a really slippery slope, which is why I think healthy people, as defined by BMI, waist circumference, blood pressure, blood sugars, and cholesterol, should receive incentives, such as extra money in an Health Saving Account, instead of penalizing those who will likely cost more.
I think the main problem is health care is so expensive and it doesn't look like the costs are coming down anytime soon. And I have no idea how to begin to solve that problem.5 -
There is NO taxpayer money involved at all. The owners of the buildings limit who can live there based on income. My wife and I went there (condominiums) and the the places were great, clean and gated. Problem was your INCOME could not exceed $80,000 a year to live there, so we could live there even if we wanted to. When we got shown around, many of the people already living there we waving hands and smiling saying "hi" to us as they were thinking we may be moving in. So is this bad because it's PROVIDED by the owners of the properties? Again it's NOT a hand out but an opportunity.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
Lol, well then you'll be thought of as a martyr then.heiliskrimsli wrote: »I don't need to dream of an afterlife that doesn't exist. I learned to earn the things I want here.
How's the weight loss going?
As for weight loss, I haven't really focused much on it. 170lbs was close to my competition weight when I competed and that some SERIOUS dieting that I didn't care for. I haven't changed the goal weight for years, so maybe I should.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
That just means you have GREAT insurance.crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
There is NO taxpayer money involved at all. The owners of the buildings limit who can live there based on income. My wife and I went there (condominiums) and the the places were great, clean and gated. Problem was your INCOME could not exceed $80,000 a year to live there, so we could live there even if we wanted to. When we got shown around, many of the people already living there we waving hands and smiling saying "hi" to us as they were thinking we may be moving in. So is this bad because it's PROVIDED by the owners of the properties? Again it's NOT a hand out but an opportunity.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You have no idea how this works. It IS paid for by tax payer money. The owner of the building...the developer...receives property tax breaks from the state or city (this is taking money from the taxpayers.) In return, they are REQUIRED to set aside units for welfare or low income people. So those people pay little or nothing, but people in other units pay market rent. This is fundamentally unfair to people who work hard and save to live in places like this.
No property developer is going to charge below market rent just out of the goodness of their heart because they really like poor people. These people need to earn a living as well, and they have investors who expect a positive return.
Do you give training to poor people for free? If not, why don't you? Why should the poor be excluded from your valuable training services just because they don't have money. Maybe the government should require you to train 1/3 of your clients for free. Then "society" would benefit from your efforts instead of just your bank account balance. And I'm sure your clients who save and budget and perhaps make hard choices to cut back on other expenses so that they can afford your services won't mind that the guy you train right before them gets it for free.
7 -
adamgoleafs87 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
Being from Canada it still shocks me to even imagine having to pay that for a hospital visit.
But you are paying for it. The system is designed different, but you are still paying for it. Your healthcare isn't free. Someone is paying for it somewhere.9 -
adamgoleafs87 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
Being from Canada it still shocks me to even imagine having to pay that for a hospital visit.
But you are paying for it. The system is designed different, but you are still paying for it. Your healthcare isn't free. Someone is paying for it somewhere.
Paying taxes, correct. However not going into debt to cover healthcare, paying outrageous fee's for insurance, not being able to afford coverage therefore not having coverage.
11 -
adamgoleafs87 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
Being from Canada it still shocks me to even imagine having to pay that for a hospital visit.
I believe you pay quite a bit more money for taxes and costs of living though, so while you're not used to seeing hospital bills like that you do pay in other ways. Just going off the grocery threads, what a comparable sized Canadian family spends a year on groceries vs what I pay, would almost cover the hospital bill (if not completely).
Also, while I'm sure the horror stories Americans have heard of Canadian health care are exaggerated, we did receive immediate care and I don't know if you would have had the same experience? We have 3 hospitals in the area and we had choice where to go. When we arrived there was a tech and a police officer standing outside with a wheelchair. They immediately got my daughter inside and they were already enroute to the triage room before I could get her registered. A nurse was waiting for us in the triage room and the first ER doctor was with us in less than 10 minutes of arrival. Our whole visit was like this, as well as follow up care appointments. Very pleased with the care received and the whole experience was as good as it could be, considering the circumstances.3 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »adamgoleafs87 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor )
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!
Being from Canada it still shocks me to even imagine having to pay that for a hospital visit.
I believe you pay quite a bit more money for taxes and costs of living though, so while you're not used to seeing hospital bills like that you do pay in other ways. Just going off the grocery threads, what a comparable sized Canadian family spends a year on groceries vs what I pay, would almost cover the hospital bill (if not completely).
Also, while I'm sure the horror stories Americans have heard of Canadian health care are exaggerated, we did receive immediate care and I don't know if you would have had the same experience? We have 3 hospitals in the area and we had choice where to go. When we arrived there was a tech and a police officer standing outside with a wheelchair. They immediately got my daughter inside and they were already enroute to the triage room before I could get her registered. A nurse was waiting for us in the triage room and the first ER doctor was with us in less than 10 minutes of arrival. Our whole visit was like this, as well as follow up care appointments. Very pleased with the care received and the whole experience was as good as it could be, considering the circumstances.
It's really nice that YOU personally have awesome insurance coverage, and abundant options, but that's far from the norm. Some people have crappier coverage or none at all. My husband's stitches and tetanus shot were over $2000 after negotiations to lower the costs. The $50 gauze pads were a bit much, in my opinion.
8
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