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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.
But we are talking about paying for more because you may have health issues. We paid more for my stepson's auto insurance even though he had no accidents just because he was a teen male driver.
That is how a risk pool works.4 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.3 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.
But we are talking about paying for more because you may have health issues. We paid more for my stepson's auto insurance even though he had no accidents just because he was a teen male driver.
Because as a new driver your son is more likely to get in an accident and cost the insurance company money in a claim situation. Statistically someone with more experience is a lower risk.2 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.
Of course I do, but the two are inexorably intertwined under our current platform. Someone without adequate insurance is not going to be able to seek and afford the same quality of treatment as someone with excellent insurance coverage if they are diagnosed with cancer, for example. Emergency care is just the tip of the iceberg.5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.
Higher quality food costs more. Everyone knows that. I see it in my own grocery bill when I buy BETTER QUALITY food and stay away from processed food.0 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.
Of course I do, but the two are inexorably intertwined under our current platform. Someone without adequate insurance is not going to be able to seek and afford the same quality of treatment as someone with excellent insurance coverage if they are diagnosed with cancer, for example. Emergency care is just the tip of the iceberg.
And actually Medicaid people are actually taking the worse of it, studies have found, you are no better off having Medicaid than just being uninsured because so many places won't take Medicaid recipients because the government pays so little and takes forever to pay on top of that. I just feel the government needs out of my business. Leave that to me and the insurance companies.
We need torte reform way before we need the government taking over our healthcare system.
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Yes they should. Of course, I also think that a tax similar to that applied to tobacco and alcohol should be applied to junk food and soda.
In the case of alcohol, junk food, and soda, the problem isn't the product, it is the abuse of the product. For those who have a social drink here and there and occasionally have a candy bar or a Coke, it is a form of group punishment to pay more because others consume these products to the extent that it impairs their health.3 -
Not necessarily. I would rather be given a break on my insurance premiums or some money back for being healthy and active at a fitness center x times per week vs. making someone to pay more for being obese. There are too many variables.5
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CatchMom13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.
Higher quality food costs more. Everyone knows that. I see it in my own grocery bill when I buy BETTER QUALITY food and stay away from processed food.
My grocery bill has gone down since I stay away from the center aisles at the grocery store. But I only buy for one not an entire family.
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Of course they should, otherwise the funds in the insurance pool would dry up quickly. Just as in auto insurance you have separate risk pools based on behavior. Those who take on additional risk pay a higher premium.
Insurance works by creating fear in a population, getting that population to pay into a savings fund, then limiting the access and payout to the funds either through diminished payouts or diminished services.7 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »CatchMom13 wrote: »KimbersNewLife wrote: »Yes and I am obese... there are so many illnesses and issues that stem directly from weight. Excess weight is actually listed as a cause on my medical record. I had heart problems when I had my son. My chart says cause of acute event: obesity as a result of high calorie intake... that is what is listed on my medical record as a fact and yes it is my fault and they are correct I was eating too many calories therefore I was over weight. It is frustrating to me that I caused my own major health event and I haven't fixed it yet. But that's another story. I do not know if a penalty would help people not do this to themselves but it's fair because it can offset some of the insurance costs for society as a whole. If this can be done in every case, when the cause of a medical problem is the direct result of dietary decisions unless the weight is caused by another underlying medical issue in which case that person's doctor should work with them to resolve it.... Since you asked ;-)
Excuse the run-on sentences... I am exhausted LOL
That's YOU. Not everyone. I am obese and I'm the healthiest fat girl I know. I come from a family of heart issues, diabetes, hypertension, etc. My numbers are never anywhere close to be a concern for my doctor. My issue is that I have arthritis - 2 kinds. I was actually doing great losing weight (even with PsA) until I developed degenerative osteoarthritis in my spine and then I got the point where I couldn't walk and the weight loss stopped. That's me though. That's MY situation. I can't believe that everyone is like me and you shouldn't believe that everyone is like you.
The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different and making people pay more for health insurance simply because some jack-wagon behind a desk thinks that ALL obese people are fat because they're lazy and eat too much is pure ignorance.
You are the healthiest fat girl you know...right now. At some point, if you don't lose weight the odds are that the weight will catch up to you and medical problems will result. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but the data is not your friend.
My father was the healthiest man I knew...fat or not...until he hit his mid 40's. He never missed a day of work in his life...never needed medical treatment...until he was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night, had emergency surgery, and was diagnosed with diabetes. He was either overweight or obese...probably obese...and had a crap diet. A few years later came the heart problems. Lots of expensive medications for the rest of his life, two major heart attacks, etc.
He was a GREAT bargain for the insurance company...until he suddenly wasn't.
Excess weight is linked to many, many, many chronic serious diseases. People who are obese are higher risk. That is fact. It is fair that they should pay more as a result.
It's funny that you say that I'm the "healthiest fat girl I know" because I OFTEN say that myself. However, I do know plenty of fat girls that don't have any comorbidities just like me. Again though, I don't base ALL obese people are these factors because I know that everyone is different. You're also probably right in that if I don't lose weight, I will end up like almost every other person in my family, riddled with comorbidities. That's why I'm here and I'm down 38 lbs since March 7. I'm working on ME.
My point is that there are skinny people who have worse health than those of overweight/obese people. You can't base it purely on someone's BMI. You have to look at all factors. If someone with a healthy BMI has testing come back with high cholesterol, hypertension, diabetes, etc and someone with an unhealthy BMI comes back with great cholesterol, normal BP and normal sugar levels, why should the overweight person pay more when in actuality, the skinny person is more unhealthy than the overweight person?1 -
CatchMom13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.
Higher quality food costs more. Everyone knows that. I see it in my own grocery bill when I buy BETTER QUALITY food and stay away from processed food.
Frozen vegetables, rice, beans, lentils, farro, canned vegetables and chicken are not that expensive. Produce can be had relatively inexpensively if you look for things that are in season. Fresh carrots aren't that expensive. Depending upon the time of year, different varietals of apples are also relatively inexpensive. Bananas are usually pretty cheap, as are eggs. Stuff you have to actually prepare yourself is generally less expensive on the whole than boxes of "mix in some water and oil and heat it up" processed food, or single serving containers of yogurt that has stuff to mix in the container with it. Convenience is expensive. Food is not.
If you're talking about "healthy" food like paying for a low-calorie, low fat version of "ice cream", well yeah, they charge out the butt for that. But that's not exactly nutritious food, either.10 -
I don't think that obese people like being that way and wake up every day saying, "I am going to continue to be fat, sick and nearly dead today".
I also think that many obese people are obese because of underlying health issues related to lack of education, poverty (cheap food isn't always healthy food), hormones (thyroid), stress (adrenal), and genetics.
In a wellness oriented health care system (e.g., Nationalized Heath Care) ideally people would have access to proper diagnosis and treatment that focuses on correcting the underlying cause of their weight gain.
If we as a society solved the underlying causes of poverty and poor health, I believe that obesity then might be eradicated -- it's a symptom of a greater problem (Corporate Greed) and "punishing people for being fat" is just another symptom of "white privilege".
BTW - I didn't vote for Bernie... I just think that it's time that we move the conversation toward what matters - we pay taxes and we should have nationalized health care and obesity should be addressed as a national health crisis - without the interference of Monsanto, Pillsbury, Quaker Oats, Procter and Gamble, etc.
See this NIH study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/
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CatchMom13 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »CatchMom13 wrote: »KimbersNewLife wrote: »Yes and I am obese... there are so many illnesses and issues that stem directly from weight. Excess weight is actually listed as a cause on my medical record. I had heart problems when I had my son. My chart says cause of acute event: obesity as a result of high calorie intake... that is what is listed on my medical record as a fact and yes it is my fault and they are correct I was eating too many calories therefore I was over weight. It is frustrating to me that I caused my own major health event and I haven't fixed it yet. But that's another story. I do not know if a penalty would help people not do this to themselves but it's fair because it can offset some of the insurance costs for society as a whole. If this can be done in every case, when the cause of a medical problem is the direct result of dietary decisions unless the weight is caused by another underlying medical issue in which case that person's doctor should work with them to resolve it.... Since you asked ;-)
Excuse the run-on sentences... I am exhausted LOL
That's YOU. Not everyone. I am obese and I'm the healthiest fat girl I know. I come from a family of heart issues, diabetes, hypertension, etc. My numbers are never anywhere close to be a concern for my doctor. My issue is that I have arthritis - 2 kinds. I was actually doing great losing weight (even with PsA) until I developed degenerative osteoarthritis in my spine and then I got the point where I couldn't walk and the weight loss stopped. That's me though. That's MY situation. I can't believe that everyone is like me and you shouldn't believe that everyone is like you.
The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different and making people pay more for health insurance simply because some jack-wagon behind a desk thinks that ALL obese people are fat because they're lazy and eat too much is pure ignorance.
You are the healthiest fat girl you know...right now. At some point, if you don't lose weight the odds are that the weight will catch up to you and medical problems will result. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but the data is not your friend.
My father was the healthiest man I knew...fat or not...until he hit his mid 40's. He never missed a day of work in his life...never needed medical treatment...until he was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night, had emergency surgery, and was diagnosed with diabetes. He was either overweight or obese...probably obese...and had a crap diet. A few years later came the heart problems. Lots of expensive medications for the rest of his life, two major heart attacks, etc.
He was a GREAT bargain for the insurance company...until he suddenly wasn't.
Excess weight is linked to many, many, many chronic serious diseases. People who are obese are higher risk. That is fact. It is fair that they should pay more as a result.
It's funny that you say that I'm the "healthiest fat girl I know" because I OFTEN say that myself. However, I do know plenty of fat girls that don't have any comorbidities just like me. Again though, I don't base ALL obese people are these factors because I know that everyone is different. You're also probably right in that if I don't lose weight, I will end up like almost every other person in my family, riddled with comorbidities. That's why I'm here and I'm down 38 lbs since March 7. I'm working on ME.
My point is that there are skinny people who have worse health than those of overweight/obese people. You can't base it purely on someone's BMI. You have to look at all factors. If someone with a healthy BMI has testing come back with high cholesterol, hypertension, diabetes, etc and someone with an unhealthy BMI comes back with great cholesterol, normal BP and normal sugar levels, why should the overweight person pay more when in actuality, the skinny person is more unhealthy than the overweight person?
Read and understand this term:
RISK POOL.4 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
That makes sense and don't you think as members of that society they have a duty to use the least resources possible, i.e., eliminate or reduce behaviors that increase medical costs?
For those that don't do that how do we drive behavior?2 -
They should tax or penalize the companies that put all this enormous amount of sugar and shyt in the foods that we eat. Force them to provide healthier food. It's ridiculous how fat our country is - some blame and taxation should be put on the vendors who is pushing this stuff out here.
I worked in the inner city and that grocery store was locked and loaded with frozen pizza, starchy sugary crap, processed foods and sugary drinks.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
That makes sense and don't you think as members of that society they have a duty to use the least resources possible, i.e., eliminate or reduce behaviors that increase medical costs?
For those that don't do that how do we drive behavior?
No that's not how it works.
The only people who have any responsibility to anyone else are fit people with good incomes. We owe everyone else.5 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »They should tax or penalize the companies that put all this enormous amount of sugar and shyt in the foods that we eat. Force them to provide healthier food. It's ridiculous how fat our country is - some blame and taxation should be put on the vendors who is pushing this stuff out here.
I worked in the inner city and that grocery store was locked and loaded with frozen pizza, starchy sugary crap, processed foods and sugary drinks.
except the problem isn't sugar or food, it's people's overconsumption that's the problem5 -
Packerjohn wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
That makes sense and don't you think as members of that society they have a duty to use the least resources possible, i.e., eliminate or reduce behaviors that increase medical costs?
For those that don't do that how do we drive behavior?
I absolutely agree that society functions best when all members act in a personally responsible manner. Education and resources for nutritional guidance can help. I'm old enough to remember ads for cigarettes, but just barely. I've seen a huge turnaround in the attitude toward smoking in my lifetime. Maybe obesity can follow.heiliskrimsli wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
That makes sense and don't you think as members of that society they have a duty to use the least resources possible, i.e., eliminate or reduce behaviors that increase medical costs?
For those that don't do that how do we drive behavior?
No that's not how it works.
The only people who have any responsibility to anyone else are fit people with good incomes. We owe everyone else.
Because nobody who is overweight earns a good income and pays taxes? :huh:10 -
I don't think that obese people like being that way and wake up every day saying, "I am going to continue to be fat, sick and nearly dead today".
I also think that many obese people are obese because of underlying health issues related to lack of education, poverty (cheap food isn't always healthy food), hormones (thyroid), stress (adrenal), and genetics.
In a wellness oriented health care system (e.g., Nationalized Heath Care) ideally people would have access to proper diagnosis and treatment that focuses on correcting the underlying cause of their weight gain.
If we as a society solved the underlying causes of poverty and poor health, I believe that obesity then might be eradicated -- it's a symptom of a greater problem (Corporate Greed) and "punishing people for being fat" is just another symptom of "white privilege".
BTW - I didn't vote for Bernie... I just think that it's time that we move the conversation toward what matters - we pay taxes and we should have nationalized health care and obesity should be addressed as a national health crisis - without the interference of Monsanto, Pillsbury, Quaker Oats, Procter and Gamble, etc.
See this NIH study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/
Actually, a majority of the people who are obese are white, so I don’t see a white privilege angle. A lot of minorities do not have obesity issues in the US.
Obesity is a byproduct of eating to excess and not exercising. A reasonable portion of healthy food is as cheap as or cheaper than an excessive portion of “junk food”. But junk food is easy, it is easier and more satisfying to open a bag of Ruffles (that won’t expire for months) and bask in the fat and sodium than to buy a bag of vegetables (that expire in days), cut them up, and don’t taste as good.
The nutritional value of food has never been more transparent. The problem isn’t with the corporations, white people, or the government, it is with people’s habits and priorities.
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