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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
Replies
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The challenge is the ultimate cost of medical care. This cost could be reduced substantially if people would practice health care (reasonable eating and movement 2 major factors). However people choose not to practice health care so they need medical care.1
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*So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?*
No. Simply because being overweight/obese is actually NOT a cause of health problems... rather unhealthy habits that can lead to obesity are what is at issue.
I've been overweight/obese for nearly 19 years now. Here's my list of medical issues
1.
Here's my list of current medications I am taking
1.
Here's the number of times I've required an overnight stay at a hospital in my entire life: 0
Here's the number of times I actually managed to hit my deductible in a given plan year in the past 17 years (since our company moved to HD plans): 1. That was the year I battled cancer, but my overall health was soo good, I only required 2 surgeries and neither required an overnight stay, nor any serious complications following. I've also been cancer free for the past 5 years. So even if I were to have a health issue that required more attention in the future, I've already paid the insurance company far more then I've benefited. And yes.. I was OBESE the entire time.
I cost less to insure then ALL of my healthy weight coworkers and family members who are on an assortment of blood pressure meds, anti-anxiety meds, heart medications, etc. So if I have to pay extra because I'm fat, then everyone who already has health problems should pay more too
In the past
*Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?*
Nope
*Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?*
IF (and that's a big if) we were to charge more for being over weight because it might lead to a medical issue, why would someone's existing medical issue be an exception?
*I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?*
I personally find them VERY helpful. Our company has one that's been in effect for the past 9 years. While it hasn't made me skinny yet, it does keep me more active then I would be on my own and it gives me access to programs and information that has helped me stay healthy even though I'm fat. My medical history is all the proof I need to prove it.5 -
*So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?*
No. Simply because being overweight/obese is actually NOT a cause of health problems... rather unhealthy habits that can lead to obesity are what is at issue.
From this site: https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/
People who are obese, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:1,2,3
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning6
While not a direct cause obesity produces a higher risk of many health problems. Most of them not fun.5 -
Packerjohn wrote: »*So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?*
No. Simply because being overweight/obese is actually NOT a cause of health problems... rather unhealthy habits that can lead to obesity are what is at issue.
From this site: https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/
People who are obese, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:1,2,3
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning6
While not a direct cause obesity produces a higher risk of many health problems. Most of them not fun.
Of course, and since the cost of insurance is based upon a risk pool analysis, those who are in higher risk pools pay more. That's how this all works. Except that now people are screaming that it's not fair that they have to shoulder the cost of decisions that make them a riskier bet for insurance. They think it would be more fair if people who have chosen to do what it takes to reduce their risk should just pony up and pay more because somehow that's "fair".
That, in my opinion, is a load of bovine dung. I'm not a jerk because I don't want to bear the burden of another person's bad decisions.8 -
This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.0
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I say that people who use health care should have to pay more for insurance. Put a 50% increase on your premium for each doctor visit. Another 50% increase for every prescription. 50% if you need lab tests or any scans. It's not fair healthy people pay for sick people.
EVERYBODY gets sick at some point in their life. I'm glad you're not in charge because this is a monstrous and stupid idea. Are you upset because you pay taxes and other people use the roadways that you don't personally use? Are you upset because you pay taxes and it helps pay for the education of children that aren't yours? Are you upset that you pay taxes and it goes to pay for libraries that you (obviously) don't use? Are you upset because your taxes pay for fire departments, but your house isn't burning down?4 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
You don't even have to have a lot of tickets or accidents to pay more for car insurance. If you're a 21 year old unmarried male with no children you will pay more than if you're a 34 year old married female with two children.
Why?
Because one of those groups is a bigger risk than the other. What the 21 year old thinks of it doesn't matter. It's not "unfair" to charge a higher risk group more for insurance than a lower risk one.1 -
annieberical wrote: »This was all done to promote the diet industry and to bolster support of the new food pyramid (which we all know is a crock of kittens).
Support for this being the reason for it?1 -
annieberical wrote: »I say that people who use health care should have to pay more for insurance. Put a 50% increase on your premium for each doctor visit. Another 50% increase for every prescription. 50% if you need lab tests or any scans. It's not fair healthy people pay for sick people.
EVERYBODY gets sick at some point in their life. I'm glad you're not in charge because this is a monstrous and stupid idea. Are you upset because you pay taxes and other people use the roadways that you don't personally use? Are you upset because you pay taxes and it helps pay for the education of children that aren't yours? Are you upset that you pay taxes and it goes to pay for libraries that you (obviously) don't use? Are you upset because your taxes pay for fire departments, but your house isn't burning down?
Have you read Swift's A Modest Proposal? If not, you probably should. It's worth reading.3 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
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My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
Mine does. Or rather, you get a discount if you 1) don't smoke, 2) are at a "healthy weight", and 3) walk a minimum number of steps per month. So in real monetary terms, yeah, you will pay more for your health insurance if you don't take a minimal amount of care of yourself...1 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
Because if we had a free insurance market like that people would be unable to buy insurance if they had a preexisting condition or, if they could, it would be far more expensive. This includes such things as psychological care, cancer, Type 1 Diabetes, an autoimmune disease, many others. It also could get unaffordable just because you are in your 50s, have a child with special needs, etc.
Beyond that, I'd say there's a sense for many of us that much about health is luck or something we all may experience, so it makes sense to share the costs and not have it work just like other insurance markets. Beyond that, it makes 0 sense to have insurance (in the real sense) to pay for fixed costs like yearly check-ups, so those should be excluded.
Also, I've had times when we decided not to make a claim on insurance for fear the costs would go up (basically, homeowner's insurance, but also car insurance when someone broke my back windshield). The analogous example with health insurance is that people would try to avoid treatment that would make their insurance too expensive, and insurance companies could deny claims for people not adequately disclosing things (even when it was inadvertent).
I don't think people really want this to be how it works, but at this point, whatever, do what you want.3 -
No.0
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StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.10 -
I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.2 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.
But we are talking about paying for more because you may have health issues. We paid more for my stepson's auto insurance even though he had no accidents just because he was a teen male driver.0 -
The fact is that insurance, by it's nature, had to use current current circumstances to predict future outcomes in order to determine the costs to provide for insurance. There will always be outliers. I don't drive that much so my auto insurance is cheaper, even though the possibility exists that I'm a bad driver. If I get in an accident, my rates will go up. However, auto insurance also has good driver discounts. If you're an overweight person who is the outlier that doesn't have medical issues, maybe there is a discount that offsets the overweight penalty to a degree.
Frankly, the biggest issue in my mind is the idea that most people get their insurance thru a group plan via their job. This provides a disincentive to come up with these variable options. I'd rather insurance was always bought individually. Then it stays with you from job to job and likely there would be more flexibility.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
Because if we had a free insurance market like that people would be unable to buy insurance if they had a preexisting condition or, if they could, it would be far more expensive. This includes such things as psychological care, cancer, Type 1 Diabetes, an autoimmune disease, many others. It also could get unaffordable just because you are in your 50s, have a child with special needs, etc.
Beyond that, I'd say there's a sense for many of us that much about health is luck or something we all may experience, so it makes sense to share the costs and not have it work just like other insurance markets. Beyond that, it makes 0 sense to have insurance (in the real sense) to pay for fixed costs like yearly check-ups, so those should be excluded.
Also, I've had times when we decided not to make a claim on insurance for fear the costs would go up (basically, homeowner's insurance, but also car insurance when someone broke my back windshield). The analogous example with health insurance is that people would try to avoid treatment that would make their insurance too expensive, and insurance companies could deny claims for people not adequately disclosing things (even when it was inadvertent).
I don't think people really want this to be how it works, but at this point, whatever, do what you want.
Do what I want. No need to get mad, its a simple discussion. I actually thought my insurance was perfectly fine until the government decided to put their hand in the mix and F it all up. Now my deductible is huge and I was without insurance for awhile and couldn't afford the exchange for ACA so just figured, if I have to pay the penalty tax (which again is ridiculous to charge someone who couldn't afford to buy the insurance in the first place). I don't know why anyone would want government in charge of their health insurance, I just look at the VA and know I don't want that. When they got involved with it and started doing the whole HMO crap they screwed it up then, giving incentives to doctors for keeping costs down (which seems like a conflict of interest to me) and then they fd it up again with ACA. You shouldn't be required to buy insurance if you don't want it, or at the very least be allowed to just buy catastrophic insurance, not everyone goes to the doctors for every little sniffle. Some people do, god knows but not everyone does.1 -
Yes they should. Of course, I also think that a tax similar to that applied to tobacco and alcohol should be applied to junk food and soda.3
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.
But we are talking about paying for more because you may have health issues. We paid more for my stepson's auto insurance even though he had no accidents just because he was a teen male driver.
That is how a risk pool works.4 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.3 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »I think that like smokers, the obese should pay more for insurance for being overweight. If I'm a bad driver my car insurance goes up. If I don't pay bills on time my credit score goes down. There are negative consequences to poor choices; that's life.
If an obese person can prove that their weight problem has medical validity then I believe to charge more would be discriminatory but if you're CHOOSING to do something you know is unhealthy then yeah, pay for it please.
But we are talking about paying for more because you may have health issues. We paid more for my stepson's auto insurance even though he had no accidents just because he was a teen male driver.
Because as a new driver your son is more likely to get in an accident and cost the insurance company money in a claim situation. Statistically someone with more experience is a lower risk.2 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.
Of course I do, but the two are inexorably intertwined under our current platform. Someone without adequate insurance is not going to be able to seek and afford the same quality of treatment as someone with excellent insurance coverage if they are diagnosed with cancer, for example. Emergency care is just the tip of the iceberg.5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.
Higher quality food costs more. Everyone knows that. I see it in my own grocery bill when I buy BETTER QUALITY food and stay away from processed food.0 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »This is how it works for life insurance. If you have a lot of tickets or accidents this is how it works for car insurance. However, what more health insurance programs should have is more incentives for weight loss just like they do for smoking. Many insurance companies offer discounts on gym memberships, or discounts if you are part of a medical weight loss program, etc. but so many do not.
This is not how it currently works for health insurance, although I suppose we may be bringing back the real insurance model. It will affect way more people than the overweight. (Luckily for those with Medicare, they at least are out of it.)
I know its not how it currently works for health insurance, but most of the other insurances work that way, so why shouldn't it for health insurance.
I believe society as a whole, not just the individual, benefits when a reasonable standard of healthcare is available to all. Not just all who can afford it or are fortunate enough to have access to decent insurance.
You do realize healthcare and health insurance are two different things. I got the same level of health care when I had no insurance and had to take an ambulance to the hospital and have xrays etc. as someone else who had insurance. Its when the bill comes that the difference comes in.
Of course I do, but the two are inexorably intertwined under our current platform. Someone without adequate insurance is not going to be able to seek and afford the same quality of treatment as someone with excellent insurance coverage if they are diagnosed with cancer, for example. Emergency care is just the tip of the iceberg.
And actually Medicaid people are actually taking the worse of it, studies have found, you are no better off having Medicaid than just being uninsured because so many places won't take Medicaid recipients because the government pays so little and takes forever to pay on top of that. I just feel the government needs out of my business. Leave that to me and the insurance companies.
We need torte reform way before we need the government taking over our healthcare system.
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Yes they should. Of course, I also think that a tax similar to that applied to tobacco and alcohol should be applied to junk food and soda.
In the case of alcohol, junk food, and soda, the problem isn't the product, it is the abuse of the product. For those who have a social drink here and there and occasionally have a candy bar or a Coke, it is a form of group punishment to pay more because others consume these products to the extent that it impairs their health.3 -
Not necessarily. I would rather be given a break on my insurance premiums or some money back for being healthy and active at a fitness center x times per week vs. making someone to pay more for being obese. There are too many variables.5
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CatchMom13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.
Higher quality food costs more. Everyone knows that. I see it in my own grocery bill when I buy BETTER QUALITY food and stay away from processed food.
My grocery bill has gone down since I stay away from the center aisles at the grocery store. But I only buy for one not an entire family.
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Of course they should, otherwise the funds in the insurance pool would dry up quickly. Just as in auto insurance you have separate risk pools based on behavior. Those who take on additional risk pay a higher premium.
Insurance works by creating fear in a population, getting that population to pay into a savings fund, then limiting the access and payout to the funds either through diminished payouts or diminished services.7
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