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Does your doctor comment on your weight?
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wunderkindking wrote: »Size is not an identity (or, well I suppose some plus sized/health at every size influencers have made it one, but that's not a good thing)
Actually, plus size influencers have been a huge encouragement to me and so good for my mental health. Plus size women have been discriminated against for so long. Women are constantly pressured to look like impossible Photoshopped supermodels who are so skinny it’s unhealthy. No wonder so many girls have body image issues and low self esteem and depression. Even if they eat healthy and live an active lifestyle and are physically fit, they still get labeled “unhealthy” if they have a naturally bigger body size. Yes, I said naturally bigger. Some women eat super healthy and exercise like crazy and have great fitness and they are STILL plus size. Because it’s genetic. And that CAN’T be changed.
I’m not saying that every overweight person is healthy. I know I need to lose weight. But you CAN be overweight by BMI and still be healthy if you have muscle mass and an active lifestyle and good diet. You can also be skinny and very unhealthy if you don’t live a good lifestyle. Healthy doesn’t equal skinny but people think it does because society constantly pushes skinny as the standard and naturally bigger women feel like they can never attain it. Plus size women don’t get equal representation in the media and their bodies are not normalized like skinny people. I am glad we have plus size influencers pushing back against that!!wunderkindking wrote: »Identity is who you are. Inside. Not what you LOOK LIKE, or how heavy you are.
Exactly, and that’s why I don’t identify as “morbidly obese”. I know my body and I know my fitness level and I know that “morbidly obese” doesn’t fit who I am on the inside.
Yes, I’m overweight and I admit that and that’s why I’m here. I am overweight. But I am also a relatively healthy and relatively average woman. ”Morbidly obese” is an awful term and makes it sound like I’m freaking 400 pounds. That’s not me. My weight has actually been pretty average my whole life and I only gained weight recently because of the pandemic. I am chubby but I don’t think anybody would look at me and say “she’s morbidly obese”!3 -
Yes, especially the one I see for sleep apnea. I am already seeing some improvements with weight loss.5
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@CurvyEmmy
Those "Photoshopped supermodels who are so skinny are unhealthy" are not good role models. If they are photoshopped to look more gaunt, then they aren't even that skinny in real life. Those that are do not have a healthy BMI. They would be healthier if they put on a little mass. Being undereweight has health implications just like being overweight, obese, or morbidly obese.
If you don't have a caliper or access to someone who can measure your body fat percent, there's lots of resources on the internet that let you get a rough guess from pictures. This is one example. There's lots more. Where do you estimate you would fall on that comparison?
Yes, people can be a healthy weight and not healthy. People can be underweight and not healthy. Being overweight, obese, or morbidly obese comes with physical health implications. If you flat out deny that, there's nothing else I can write that would help you be realistic.
If you continue to disagree with what I write, I would love for you to specify exactly what you disagree with. I am sort of direct; others have written more eloquently than I have. I have written nothing that is inaccurate or judgemental.
There's a difference between loving yourself at any weight and the idea that being healthy at any size is accurate. I think I know what you mean by "plus size influencers," and I think they do a disservice to people who would be healthier if they lost weight but don't want to put in the effort. Losing weight to a healthy mass is simple for sure, and it's also not easy for most people.
I am glad that you are deciding to make changes to be a more healthy you. Please keep it up and keep us apprised of your success.
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I loved myself when I was obese. I never had a problem with how I looked. I never had a problem with who I was. I liked the clothes I had, the life I lived, and the sports I played.
I also loved myself enough to recognize that, at middle aged and not getting younger, I deserved to take care of myself at least as well as I take care of my DOGS.
I feed my dogs a healthy diet, that covers all their bases. I make sure they're properly conditioned (ie: fit) enough to do activities they love for as long as they can, with as little risk of injury as they can.
I was living on a fairly crappy diet, playing games I loved without fueling them properly and not taking care of my actual conditioning to do so at all. I tracked a while on MPF at first because I was trying to work out how much protein I was eating. It was low - way low, too low, scary low. Only after that and, again, recognizing that I was treating myself in a way I would never, ever, treat someone I loved - or even a pet, or honestly even someone I hated (because I'd sure make sure they got a decently healthy diet and were in decent physical condition) but was responsible for.
THEN I lost weight.
Not because I hated myself fat, but because I loved myself enough to *take care of myself*. My sleep schedule got better. My energy increased. My reflux went away. I got to do MORE OF THE THINGS I LOVE TO DO because I was more physically able to do them.
I am all about body positivity - all about it. Not just for people who are bigger, but for people who are thin, people who are fit, people who are differently abled. I am even more all about body NEUTRALITY where the abilities/disabilities/conditions are not something people can love, and just treating your body like the thing that houses the interesting parts of you, so you take care of it to the best of your ability.
Health at every size though? No. That crap is dangerous. There ARE health risks associated with obesity and the fact that the obesity rate HALVES or more in people over 75 (and abruptly so) says a lot.
Most of what it says, sadly, is that obesity leads to health problems that kill people.
You can find all of those problems in people who are not obese, yes. The difference is, those people who are not obese and have those problems do not usually have multiple comorbidities layered on top of each other because of their weight.
Also? Kinda disrespectful to say "Yeah well you've got diabetes and are skinny and I know it's hell, and I know I'm at risk for it and CAN lower my risk to avoid it, but instead of doing that I'm going to point at you as a reason to do nothing" Really disrespectful and generally crappy, actually.16 -
And, to answer the original four-year-old question that got revived after languishing for 2.5 years....
My doctor commented more on my health markers than my actual weight. He wanted to put me on drugs. I didn't want to. I told him I'd try diet and exercise. He put up with me making that promise for a few years.... and then I did it! My health markers improved a whole hell of a lot, and have stayed that way. I remember a year or two ago taking a SCUBA belt when I went for a walk. It weighed less than the amount I had lost, but even with just that amount of weight, I could feel it in my knees. I remember thinking, "Wow; I used to carry more than this around ALL THE TIME." Yes it makes a difference.
The sad thing for me was when I went back to the doctor that first time after losing weight. I was actually hoping he'd lost some weight, too. I remember he seemed a little bit thinner the year before. Nope. He was pretty big. He said, ".... You're looking at a fat fat man." He knew it wasn't good, yet he let it persist. I hope that next time I see him he'll be smaller again. He told me he had actually lost 50 pounds or something, but that people "keep bringing him cookies." Even medical professionals who should (and who do) know better can have a really hard time managing weight. It's not just us "regular" people.
The good news is that it IS possible! The better news is that the instructions are simple. Executing the instructions is not easy at all, but the formula is right there if we choose to make changes. Cutting five or ten percent of body mass has an amazing effect on health. Most of us gained weight over a number of years, and by taking a slow and stead approach, we can all get to a better place and do it at a good pace. Even the very slow rate of a half pound a week would mean 26 pounds in a year. Don't wait. Start now. Warren Miller used to say, "If you don't do it this year, you'll be a year older when you do." Tomorrow never comes. Yesterday is a memory. TODAY is the day you have, and you can make positive changes TODAY.
My chiropractor noticed my weight loss. He was happy for me. I think my oral hygienist did too. My dentist retired; my new dentist didn't know me as a bigger human.
I think this is the last I'll write on the topic because it's starting to feel like feeding trolls....6 -
Everyone knows the BMI system is crap because it doesn’t account for muscle mass. A muscular woman could have a high BMI due to the muscle weight, but still have very low body fat, and BMI will classify her as “obese”. So yes, you can be “obese” according to BMI and be perfectly healthy. We need to be a lot more careful with words like “obese” because it can really hurt a person’s self-esteem and body image!
adding to the comments (although perhaps mtaratoot was right and should leave alone )
No we don't all know BMI is crap
we all know, I hope, that it should be used in context.
Yes there can be outliers - elite body builders and suchlike who carry a much larger muscle mass and will be incorrectly labelled obese - but I think both the doctor and the patient would know if that applies to them.
It doesnt apply to very many people - and very few women are muscular enough to be 'falsely obese' unless they really are body builders or similar.
Unless this is you - no, it doesnt apply to you.
that isnt body shaming or saying anything about your body specifically - it is general facts.13 -
It's weird that people accept that the BMI is terrible and inacurrate but also seem to be defending it's use. Being over weight CAN be a major health issue. But since it's that big of a deal, shouldn't we want accurate measurments and guidelines?0
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t’s totally unfair to compare me to some other country where people are probably starving. If 65% of people are “overweight” and only 35% are “normal” that just shows you how BMI is a broken system. “Normal” should be the range where most people are at, not a small minority of people.
Genetics also plays a huge role - some women are naturally larger even if they do the same diet and same exercise as skinny girls. That is just their natural size and it doesn’t make them unhealthy. I am apple shape so I naturally have a large waistline. That is my body’s NATURAL shape. It doesn’t make me unhealthy.
I’m sorry but I’m feeling a lot of judgement here and it’s making me feel pissed.
No - it shows you the country has an obesity problem, not that BMI is a broken system.
Normal in this context should be the range at which people (barring obvious outliers) are a healthy weight
and sure, genetics plays a part in your body shape - some people are a larger frame than others - that's why healthy BMI is a range, not a single number.
Nobody (barring obvious outliers like people with dwarfism or born with missing limbs) has a 'natural shape' that is far out of healthy BMI range
Sorry if you are interpreting facts as judgment.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »Nobody (barring obvious outliers like people with dwarfism or born with missing limbs) has a 'natural shape' that is far out of healthy BMI range
I’ve been outside of the “healthy” BMI range my whole life DESPITE a relatively healthy lifestyle. I know lots of women in the same boat. Some people are just naturally heavier!
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paperpudding wrote: »Nobody (barring obvious outliers like people with dwarfism or born with missing limbs) has a 'natural shape' that is far out of healthy BMI range
I’ve been outside of the “healthy” BMI range my whole life DESPITE a relatively healthy lifestyle. I know lots of women in the same boat. Some people are just naturally heavier!
Nobody is just naturally heavier very far out of BMI range,(slightly out, yes that is possible for some people, but not very far) regardless of how healthy they eat or their lifestyle is or how much their friends weigh.
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And, to answer the original four-year-old question that got revived after languishing for 2.5 years....
My doctor commented more on my health markers than my actual weight. He wanted to put me on drugs. I didn't want to. I told him I'd try diet and exercise. He put up with me making that promise for a few years.... and then I did it! My health markers improved a whole hell of a lot, and have stayed that way. I remember a year or two ago taking a SCUBA belt when I went for a walk. It weighed less than the amount I had lost, but even with just that amount of weight, I could feel it in my knees. I remember thinking, "Wow; I used to carry more than this around ALL THE TIME." Yes it makes a difference.
The sad thing for me was when I went back to the doctor that first time after losing weight. I was actually hoping he'd lost some weight, too. I remember he seemed a little bit thinner the year before. Nope. He was pretty big. He said, ".... You're looking at a fat fat man." He knew it wasn't good, yet he let it persist. I hope that next time I see him he'll be smaller again. He told me he had actually lost 50 pounds or something, but that people "keep bringing him cookies." Even medical professionals who should (and who do) know better can have a really hard time managing weight. It's not just us "regular" people.
The good news is that it IS possible! The better news is that the instructions are simple. Executing the instructions is not easy at all, but the formula is right there if we choose to make changes. Cutting five or ten percent of body mass has an amazing effect on health. Most of us gained weight over a number of years, and by taking a slow and stead approach, we can all get to a better place and do it at a good pace. Even the very slow rate of a half pound a week would mean 26 pounds in a year. Don't wait. Start now. Warren Miller used to say, "If you don't do it this year, you'll be a year older when you do." Tomorrow never comes. Yesterday is a memory. TODAY is the day you have, and you can make positive changes TODAY.
My chiropractor noticed my weight loss. He was happy for me. I think my oral hygienist did too. My dentist retired; my new dentist didn't know me as a bigger human.
I think this is the last I'll write on the topic because it's starting to feel like feeding trolls....
Sadly, I don't think that's the case.
I watch a lot of youtube influencers, mostly for fashion stuff. Always did, including when I was obese -- which means I watched a lot of people who were obese (often morbidly so) and crossed into fashion/style stuff. This sort of stuff? Super common. Super pervasive.
It's capitalizing on people's insecurities. People do need a place to feel accepted and to love themselves and not be made to feel less than. That's true if they're an addict, autistic, or obese.
But what these people are doing? It's predatory.
And when it crosses into 'anyone at any size can be healthy' it's deadly dangerous.
No one's worth as a person should be determined by their size, but their future and current health problems sure can be.
Oh, and as icing on the cake? That community tends to viciously turn on anyone who is trying to lose weight, even if it's because of an IMMEDIATE and DIRECTLY WEIGHT RELATED health issue (there's a whole thing with a youtuber named glitterandlasers or something similar). BIG TOXIC hiding under a thin shell of 'positivity'. It's killing people.
What this poster is parroting?
Right out of the 'I watch these videos a lot and need to believe this crap' playbook.
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It's weird that people accept that the BMI is terrible and inacurrate but also seem to be defending it's use. Being over weight CAN be a major health issue. But since it's that big of a deal, shouldn't we want accurate measurments and guidelines?
I think we should want practical and easy to use measurements and people to interpret them in context- seems to me BMI fits that.
Of course there are people and circumstances where more advanced measurements are suitable too - but BMI is a good guide and easy and practical to use.
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So, real facts here and personal story time.
Before I started logging on MFP, my general attitude was: I exercise, I am active, I have a pretty healthy lifestyle and I don't eat more than other people, even skinny ones. Guess I'm just fat/naturally fat/meant to be fat/whatever (remember, I never disliked my weight, got bullied, experienced bad things, had any self-loathing related to it).
This was true on one front and false on another.
The front it was true on was that I did not eat more VOLUME or more frequently than other people, really. Coffee and toast for breakfast, salad and a sandwich for lunch, apple and PB for a snack, some meat and potatoes basic for dinner.
The direction it was absolutely false from? Logging showed me very quickly that I ate about 1,000 calories in a day of high fat condiments. Cream in my coffee, butter on my toast, mayo on my sandwich, PB with my apple, and lots of ranch on my salad.
But that's normal! I can already hear it.
Yeah. It is kinda normal, but two things here:
1-) I know a lot of fat people. Because most people in the US are medically overweight or obese.
2-) The people who are NOT fat that I know, might eat like that sometimes. But they don't eat like that EVERY DAY and then ALSO have the special treats they post on facebook.
So, yeah, I guess I was 'naturally just fat'. I was naturally just fat because I ate, no joke, 1,000 calories OF CONDIMENTS. MOST DAYS. THEN STILL ATE THE DONUT, BROWNIE, CANDY BAR, or whatever TOO. I somehow took an image of what I thought I saw and decided I was eating like one of my 115 lb, 5' tall friends.
Tracking some calories and a question or two proved that to be an enormous, enormous, lie. I got fat because I 1/3 again as much as any actual reasonable person would - IN CALORIES, not frequency or volume.12 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Oh, and as icing on the cake? That community tends to viciously turn on anyone who is trying to lose weight, even if it's for a direct health benefit (there's a whole thing with a youtuber named glitterandlasers or something similar). BIG TOXIC hiding under a thin shell of 'positivity'. It's killing people.
What this poster is parroting?
Right out of the 'I watch these videos a lot and need to believe this crap' playbook.
No, I do not oppose weight loss. I oppose the idea that you need to be a certain weight to be attractive or healthy. Weight loss CAN help you get healthier depending on your situation, but there are so many factors that play into a person’s health - it’s not determined by just one number on a scale.
Body positivity isn’t toxic. Decades of society telling young girls that they’re fat and ugly if they’re not a size 0 - that’s what’s toxic. So many girls have gotten body dismorphia and anorexia from those toxic messages.
I’ve been plus size my whole life and despite being only slight overweight for most of my life, I felt SO insecure about my body - I felt like a whale and felt like no boy would ever look at me. I didn’t have the confidence to wear clothes that flattered my figure. I felt invisible and depressed.
Plus size YouTubers have helped me to unlearn that toxicity and see that I’m beautiful and sexy just the way I am and I can dress to show off my assets that super skinny girls don’t have
Despite being at ny heaviest weight yet, I feel SO much better about myself now and I’m more confident than I was when I was skinnier.
I’m not opposed to weight loss - I WANT to lose weight so I can get in shape and be able to walk further and climb stairs better and do more things without getting out of breath. But I no longer believe I need to lose weight to be sexy. I’m letting go of that toxic mindset. I’m learning to love and flaunt my natural body shape - hence the “curvy” in my username 2 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Oh, and as icing on the cake? That community tends to viciously turn on anyone who is trying to lose weight, even if it's for a direct health benefit (there's a whole thing with a youtuber named glitterandlasers or something similar). BIG TOXIC hiding under a thin shell of 'positivity'. It's killing people
Yeah, that's terrible and I've seen that too.5 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Oh, and as icing on the cake? That community tends to viciously turn on anyone who is trying to lose weight, even if it's for a direct health benefit (there's a whole thing with a youtuber named glitterandlasers or something similar). BIG TOXIC hiding under a thin shell of 'positivity'. It's killing people
Yeah, that's terrible and I've seen that too.
Yeah. It is basically the exact reverse of pro-ana. Sure, find people who are vulnerable, lacking confidence, badly treating, dealing with psychological and physical issues--
and encourage them to dig deeper into them.
That is not self-love. That's enabling people to self-destruct and self-harm and saying it's LOVE.
I HATE IT ALL.
It is toxic, it is abusive, it is dangerous, deadly and wrong.
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I recently asked my doctor:
"How much exactly should I weight?"
He replied:
"Dunno, let's take a look at the BMI chart and find out."
Then we laughed and laughed and laughed some more......8 -
wunderkindking wrote: »That is not self-love. That's enabling people to self-destruct and self-harm and saying it's LOVE.
My God, what an awful take. I’ve been told I’m fat my whole life and it left me feeling totally insecure and depressed. Plus size girls have it SO hard in our society. When I discovered body positivity and started to finally feel like I’m OK the way I am, I felt a massive relief.
No, it is NOT gonna stop me from living a healthy lifestyle. I am still trying to lose (a realistic amount of) weight, eat healthy, and be more active. The only thing body positivity has changed for me, is it’s helped me to love my body and it’s given me confidence to feel beautiful and sexy just the way I am. That is really healthy and desperately needed for a lot of plus size girls out there.4 -
wunderkindking wrote: »That is not self-love. That's enabling people to self-destruct and self-harm and saying it's LOVE.
My God, what an awful take. I’ve been told I’m fat my whole life and it left me feeling totally insecure and depressed. Plus size girls have it SO hard in our society. When I discovered body positivity and started to finally feel like I’m OK the way I am, I felt a massive relief.
No, it is NOT gonna stop me from living a healthy lifestyle. I am still trying to lose (a realistic amount of) weight, eat healthy, and be more active. The only thing body positivity has changed for me, is it’s helped me to love my body and it’s given me confidence to feel beautiful and sexy just the way I am. That is really healthy and desperately needed for a lot of plus size girls out there.
I feel like it’s important to look at the difference between the way fat men and fat women are treated to understand the societal drive to shame fat women. No one is telling fat men they are disgusting and should die rather than expect others to be around them, yet that’s a fairly mild comment easily found online directed towards any woman who is larger than supermodel size. Until that impulse to punish women for daring to be other than what society tells them to be is gone, it’s difficult to have an honest discussion about health.
I do want to say, at the risk of going off-topic, that I disagree with the concept of losing a realistic amount of weight. Having gone from morbidly obese to the middle of normal BMI and maintained it for four years I know it’s perfectly “realistic” to lose however much weight you need to lose. It’s become kind of a thing in the media recently to say that diets don’t work and losing weight is impossible because set points blah blah blah. This sort of article usually follows up with some body positive statement on the order of, “Bodies come in all sizes and we should learn to love all of them.” Well… baloney. Bodies very rarely came in morbidly obese size until quite recently - the latter half of the last century. When you look at women who were considered fat enough to be working as circus freaks from 1920 or so, they are smaller than half the people I saw out shopping today. It’s not actually cool that anyone is that heavy, it’s horribly limiting on a daily basis. And I say this as someone who has lived it. There really does need to be a way to help people out of that situation without giving into the urge to blame and shame.
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Yes, I’m overweight and I admit that and that’s why I’m here. I am overweight. But I am also a relatively healthy and relatively average woman. ”Morbidly obese” is an awful term and makes it sound like I’m freaking 400 pounds. That’s not me. My weight has actually been pretty average my whole life and I only gained weight recently because of the pandemic. I am chubby but I don’t think anybody would look at me and say “she’s morbidly obese”!
Aren’t you fat shaming those 400 pound women? You just said, essentially, “I’m fat but not as fat as REALLY FAT people! I’m the cute kind of fat!” That’s why the term morbidly obese exists. It isn’t a loaded term, it’s a medical term. It means your obesity is a morbid condition. It literally, factually, increases your risk of death.
Studies have found that although it’s possible to be overweight and healthy, it’s very difficult to be obese and healthy. Those who don’t currently have comorbidities like heart disease soon develop them. Even outlier obese men with massive amounts of muscle tend to have health issues because their bodies aren’t really made to sustain that mass.20 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Size is not an identity (or, well I suppose some plus sized/health at every size influencers have made it one, but that's not a good thing)
Actually, plus size influencers have been a huge encouragement to me and so good for my mental health. Plus size women have been discriminated against for so long. Women are constantly pressured to look like impossible Photoshopped supermodels who are so skinny it’s unhealthy. No wonder so many girls have body image issues and low self esteem and depression. Even if they eat healthy and live an active lifestyle and are physically fit, they still get labeled “unhealthy” if they have a naturally bigger body size. Yes, I said naturally bigger. Some women eat super healthy and exercise like crazy and have great fitness and they are STILL plus size. Because it’s genetic. And that CAN’T be changed.
I’m not saying that every overweight person is healthy. I know I need to lose weight. But you CAN be overweight by BMI and still be healthy if you have muscle mass and an active lifestyle and good diet. You can also be skinny and very unhealthy if you don’t live a good lifestyle. Healthy doesn’t equal skinny but people think it does because society constantly pushes skinny as the standard and naturally bigger women feel like they can never attain it. Plus size women don’t get equal representation in the media and their bodies are not normalized like skinny people. I am glad we have plus size influencers pushing back against that!!wunderkindking wrote: »Identity is who you are. Inside. Not what you LOOK LIKE, or how heavy you are.
Exactly, and that’s why I don’t identify as “morbidly obese”. I know my body and I know my fitness level and I know that “morbidly obese” doesn’t fit who I am on the inside.
Yes, I’m overweight and I admit that and that’s why I’m here. I am overweight. But I am also a relatively healthy and relatively average woman. ”Morbidly obese” is an awful term and makes it sound like I’m freaking 400 pounds. That’s not me. My weight has actually been pretty average my whole life and I only gained weight recently because of the pandemic. I am chubby but I don’t think anybody would look at me and say “she’s morbidly obese”!
Morbidly obese is a technical term and you are not (although you are close to the lower edge). It means either BMI of 40+ or 100 lbs over your ideal weight (which is not defined subjectively). At 5'5 and 240, you are 39.9 BMI, so at least obese, technically (which just means over 30 BMI). Yeah, muscle mass may make that vary some in reality, but absent an edge case, over 30 BMI (and certainly over 35) has the health risks that go with "obese." It's really not a shaming word, but intended to be a clinical one.
Of course there are multiple classes of obesity and being obese just doesn't mean you are 400 lbs or should feel like you are. I'm only 5'3 and hit "obese" at 170. For me, not overweight = 140. Am I not a weight that would be considered an issue in the current US at over 140? Yeah, although I think I look better closer to 125. Am I unhealthy at, say, 145? Probably not, and I think if I were more stable at that weight than, say, 130, it would be a fine choice, especially if I also were active and ate well. I would hope any discussion of weight with a doctor (and this is true for my doctor, who has always discussed weight) would be broader than this is the number on the scale.11 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Oh, and as icing on the cake? That community tends to viciously turn on anyone who is trying to lose weight, even if it's for a direct health benefit (there's a whole thing with a youtuber named glitterandlasers or something similar). BIG TOXIC hiding under a thin shell of 'positivity'. It's killing people.
What this poster is parroting?
Right out of the 'I watch these videos a lot and need to believe this crap' playbook.
No, I do not oppose weight loss. I oppose the idea that you need to be a certain weight to be attractive or healthy. Weight loss CAN help you get healthier depending on your situation, but there are so many factors that play into a person’s health - it’s not determined by just one number on a scale.
Body positivity isn’t toxic. Decades of society telling young girls that they’re fat and ugly if they’re not a size 0 - that’s what’s toxic. So many girls have gotten body dismorphia and anorexia from those toxic messages.
I’ve been plus size my whole life and despite being only slight overweight for most of my life, I felt SO insecure about my body - I felt like a whale and felt like no boy would ever look at me. I didn’t have the confidence to wear clothes that flattered my figure. I felt invisible and depressed.
Plus size YouTubers have helped me to unlearn that toxicity and see that I’m beautiful and sexy just the way I am and I can dress to show off my assets that super skinny girls don’t have Despite being at ny heaviest weight yet, I feel SO much better about myself now and I’m more confident than I was when I was skinnier.
I’m not opposed to weight loss - I WANT to lose weight so I can get in shape and be able to walk further and climb stairs better and do more things without getting out of breath. But I no longer believe I need to lose weight to be sexy. I’m letting go of that toxic mindset. I’m learning to love and flaunt my natural body shape - hence the “curvy” in my username
A lot of strawmen in that post
Nobody was commenting on sexy or beautiful- I hope no doctors are approaching weight loss from those angles.
And nobody was promoting telling anyone they were ugly or promoting weight loss to look or feel sexy.
Nor was anyone saying there are not other health risks or that weight is the only risk factor.
But, yes, you do need to be in a weight range to be healthy - it isn't about looks or sexiness or attractiveness or confidence - being significantly overweight is a health risk.
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It's weird that people accept that the BMI is terrible and inacurrate but also seem to be defending it's use. Being over weight CAN be a major health issue. But since it's that big of a deal, shouldn't we want accurate measurments and guidelines?
What are the accurate measurements in this case you think we are missing?
Re the doctor question, I went to my doctor when I was in the midst of losing and was 26.5 BMI. My dr said "you are technically overweight but I see no issues, tests seem good, you seem healthy, how do you eat and how do you exercise?" I explained I was (a) training for a half marathon, (b) losing weight, and (c) went into details about how I ate. She asked a few more questions to make sure I wasn't doing some unhealthy diet/had unhealthy goals and was fine with my ultimate goal and also liked MFP, which I mentioned. Additional tests done that day came back fine. If I'd not wanted to lose more after that, but kept the healthy behaviors I don't think my dr would hav cared, although she likely would have explained various ways of checking healthy weight (my insurance company recommends such things, like height to waist).7 -
Tweaking_Time wrote: »Has your doc ever suggested you lose weight? If so, were you offended?
I asked my doc if she ever suggested people lose weight, eat better, exercise more, etc. She said that her answer would be mostly "No." When I asked her why she explained that being a doctor is a business and if she would critique each patients weight, she is sure she would lose patients, especially the easily offended ones. She also said if the patient asks her opinion about their weight, should would gladly help them with a diet/exercise plan.
My current GP first met me when I was about 160 and beginning to have problems with my balance. That was just over twelve years ago.
I had been on a weight loss journey then. I was running almost daily, and was in decent shape. Running. And did I mention the unicycle??? My true exercise love since I was a tween?
She watched as I got larger and larger.
Not once did she mention weight. Diet was mentioned. And alcohol. And I could see disbelief when I would say I rarely drink. Or that generally my diet was decent. (Obviously I was eating more than I was expending, but that was because of increasing disability) And a couple times in the early days I had to fight to get my thyroid meds properly adjusted. I also had to fight so much for my ADHD meds that I just stopped taking them and that hasn’t been my best decision either.
She also asked me what kinds of activities I liked. When I said I liked walking on the beach with my partner she told me that was “too dangerous” and that was my last walk on the beach. At the time I was using two canes.
When I told her I enjoyed using my small chainsaw to cut trash trees in my yard? She was absolutely aghast and told me I should not be using a chainsaw. The fact that it was very small, and I was sitting well braced on a firm seat? Meant nothing. So I stopped working in my yard.
I got no diet advice. I got no referral to a nutritionist. I got no advice for exercise I could do And - crucially - when I said something like “well, I feel like kitten all the time so it’s kind of hard to tell…” she didn’t order any blood tests except thyroid.
I developed a fatty liver. My cholesterol went up, which is against my genetics. And my BP went up, also against my genetics. All with no apparent concern from my GP.
Physical therapists I got sent to clearly thought I was faking my balance issues. Completely ignoring the fact that I used to unicycle all the time so my baseline balance is excellent.
Meanwhile I have other issues that the doctors just roll their eyes when I mention because obviously I’m fat. So I must just be looking for attention…. A hypochondriac.
Which is why I can’t feel my toes now. Because the people I trusted to advise me just looked at my size and my mystery balance issue and decided I was fat and stupid and lazy.
Doctors treating fat people as if being fat is their only problem is a very real issue. I was only a bit overweight when my current GP met me. And that was enough for her to mostly dismiss my concerns.
Oh. And she’s one of the better ones in my area.
That said? Body positivity is a good thing at any size. And doctors need to pay attention to their patients of all sizes
They generally don’t. And that likely has some effect on why larger people have worse health outcomes.
I know it absolutely was a factor in why I have neuropathy right now. If my doctor had encouraged exercise instead of shutting me down when I mentioned the things I liked to do even with my balance disorder? Or had encouraged me to find an assistive device that would make those activities safer in her eyes? Or had sent me to a nutritionist? Or done a simple fasting blood sugar???? I would have been able to reverse the diabetes in the early stages. I know this because my diet was already not that bad. And I was already exercising some. I just needed to be told to step it up a notch.
I am diabetic in some part because my doctor chose not to encourage me to exercise. Chose to only look at my fat and not my symptoms And that’s a big problem for a lot of overweight people.
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Hi everyone,
Reading through this thread has been really interesting and eye-opening for me, in particular the debate/discussion that has come up about body size and health.
I have to say, I think a lot of the discussion becomes confused as people mean different things when they write, and others assume a shared meaning where actually these aren't shared due to life experience.
Health is a good example: some argue that any mass above 1 standard deviation above the mean (or whatever arbitrary line you want to set) is unhealthy, and some argue that they are healthy at a weight higher than that. But the issue here is what health and unhealthy means.
People argue that being overweight by its nature is unhealthy I take it to mean that, as a lot of evidence shows, the risk of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis etc increase with increasing weight. The studies which showed this did not often look at more complex metrics than BMI, and have many confounders (such as socioeconomic status which is highly correlated to weight) but have been done on huge populations. The sheer number of people studied gives strong evidence that on average being heavier increases the risk of specific diseases, although each disease risk is somewhat independent. Specific evidence of an impairment in general wellbeing is harder to come by: although I believe there are some studies which also support this and it can be inferred from the higher rates of physical health problems (and concomitant other life/mental health issues) in overweight populations.
What others are saying is different: that it is possible to be healthy and be overweight. The studies do not preclude this. They talk about the mean risk of cardiovascular disease, but if we evaluate that in more depth, the actual risk of a heart attack or stroke (particularly as a result of athersclerosis and essential hypertension) for a young woman is really very small. And, as they get older and continue to carry extra weight, that risk increases, but it is by no means 100% - many people who are older and larger do not have consequences of being overweight or obese. For one reason or another they do not have the occurrence of the actual illness that can be associated with obesity. Now, of course, a large number of people will be (to all intents and purposes) lucky. Some people will statistically just not get heart attacks or strokes or joint issues. But there's more: taking cardiovascular risk into consideration, physical activity is more closely associated with heart attack risk than BMI. Of course, BMI and physical activity are closely associated, but not actually dependent on each other. Studies to tease this out show that physical activity is more important than BMI, but BMI is also an independent risk factor. These details are likely to be true for several conditions: people who are overweight are more likely to both eat processed meat and get bowel cancer: there is probably some independent effect of BMI, but many studies which demonstrate the association were not designed to control in high resolution for dietary features.
So an overweight person who exercises regularly, has a good exercise tolerance, maintains a diet which is balanced, doesn't smoke and is lucky with their genes may have an individual risk of cardiovascular disease than many other people who have a lower BMI. Does that mean that they couldn't lower their cardiovascular risk further - no. Does that mean they are healthy? Who knows... depends on what you mean by healthy.
A further issue is that when you use the word healthy a bunch of other stuff comes in. There's really solid evidence that obese people are discriminated against, and that words which are associated with obesity and being overweight are viewed more negatively than those describing people who are not that. In fact the terminology is pretty vulnerable to prejudice: as someone pointed out "normal" weight is a statistical measurement of the population and could in theory change over time as people get taller and larger. "Healthy" weight is also challenging, as there is probably a range in which people can be "healthy" in a medical sense. Furthermore, the word healthy also kinda means attractive, or at least attractive adjacent. So when someone brings up that the word obese is offensive, or that they are put out by being called unhealthy they are telling you that their experience is that the word is offensive, or that unhealthy has been used as a euphemism for ugly in their life. It doesn't too much matter that they are medical terms, or in your view don't relate to attractiveness: they have become offensive, just like a bunch of other medical terms.
In the end what do we want? we want each other to live long, happy lives. And in this case both sides are right. Overall a population should have a lower BMI, eat less processed food, exercise more and the mean age of death will likely increase. If we look at individuals though, telling them they are fat, telling them they are by their nature unhealthy and treating them poorly for that will not help. It will not help them change their lifestyle to become more healthy regardless of weight, and it will contribute to the feelings of inadequacy which burden many people who have a high BMI.
In response to the question: I was told by a doctor when I was 18 that I was fat and needed to lose weight as a throwaway at the end of a consultation. Literally those words. The first part was true - I knew it before I went in, I knew it when I was 12, and when I was 8, and I know it now that I am 33 years old. As for the second part: how could he know what I needed? And in every moment of self-loathing and weakness I would think back to that doctor with a prideful grin - shows what he knew! Here I am and I didn't NEED to lose weight. Of course, I know, and, I think knew then, that what he meant to say was "We should have a further consultation to create a supportive environment and carry out a holistic assessment of your general health and consider how your long-term health goals may be supported by a plan of increased activity and active consideration of your diet, balancing sustainability with calorie limitation in order to meet predefined activity and weight loss goals and maintenance." j/k, lol.
P.S. Just starting my current plans for a healthy future: happy to chat with folk to keep motivation going!9 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Tweaking_Time wrote: »Has your doc ever suggested you lose weight? If so, were you offended?
I asked my doc if she ever suggested people lose weight, eat better, exercise more, etc. She said that her answer would be mostly "No." When I asked her why she explained that being a doctor is a business and if she would critique each patients weight, she is sure she would lose patients, especially the easily offended ones. She also said if the patient asks her opinion about their weight, should would gladly help them with a diet/exercise plan.
My current GP first met me when I was about 160 and beginning to have problems with my balance. That was just over twelve years ago.
I had been on a weight loss journey then. I was running almost daily, and was in decent shape. Running. And did I mention the unicycle??? My true exercise love since I was a tween?
She watched as I got larger and larger.
Not once did she mention weight. Diet was mentioned. And alcohol. And I could see disbelief when I would say I rarely drink. Or that generally my diet was decent. (Obviously I was eating more than I was expending, but that was because of increasing disability) And a couple times in the early days I had to fight to get my thyroid meds properly adjusted. I also had to fight so much for my ADHD meds that I just stopped taking them and that hasn’t been my best decision either.
She also asked me what kinds of activities I liked. When I said I liked walking on the beach with my partner she told me that was “too dangerous” and that was my last walk on the beach. At the time I was using two canes.
When I told her I enjoyed using my small chainsaw to cut trash trees in my yard? She was absolutely aghast and told me I should not be using a chainsaw. The fact that it was very small, and I was sitting well braced on a firm seat? Meant nothing. So I stopped working in my yard.
I got no diet advice. I got no referral to a nutritionist. I got no advice for exercise I could do And - crucially - when I said something like “well, I feel like kitten all the time so it’s kind of hard to tell…” she didn’t order any blood tests except thyroid.
I developed a fatty liver. My cholesterol went up, which is against my genetics. And my BP went up, also against my genetics. All with no apparent concern from my GP.
Physical therapists I got sent to clearly thought I was faking my balance issues. Completely ignoring the fact that I used to unicycle all the time so my baseline balance is excellent.
Meanwhile I have other issues that the doctors just roll their eyes when I mention because obviously I’m fat. So I must just be looking for attention…. A hypochondriac.
Which is why I can’t feel my toes now. Because the people I trusted to advise me just looked at my size and my mystery balance issue and decided I was fat and stupid and lazy.
Doctors treating fat people as if being fat is their only problem is a very real issue. I was only a bit overweight when my current GP met me. And that was enough for her to mostly dismiss my concerns.
Oh. And she’s one of the better ones in my area.
That said? Body positivity is a good thing at any size. And doctors need to pay attention to their patients of all sizes
They generally don’t. And that likely has some effect on why larger people have worse health outcomes.
I know it absolutely was a factor in why I have neuropathy right now. If my doctor had encouraged exercise instead of shutting me down when I mentioned the things I liked to do even with my balance disorder? Or had encouraged me to find an assistive device that would make those activities safer in her eyes? Or had sent me to a nutritionist? Or done a simple fasting blood sugar???? I would have been able to reverse the diabetes in the early stages. I know this because my diet was already not that bad. And I was already exercising some. I just needed to be told to step it up a notch.
I am diabetic in some part because my doctor chose not to encourage me to exercise. Chose to only look at my fat and not my symptoms And that’s a big problem for a lot of overweight people.
Oh, this is a terrible story, I’m so sorry. There’s no excuse for not running a regular a1c, yet my doctor didn’t do it either.
Did your neuropathy improve at all with good glucose control? I ask because I used to have neuropathy in my hands and it mostly disappeared after a year or so with good control.5 -
Doesn't mean it never happened, but I can't remember a doctor ever telling me I should lose weight. Not my:
* GP (who was urging me to take a statin for high cholesterol, when I also had high triglycerides, borderline to high blood pressure at the time);
* Oncology team (treating me for a stage III locally advanced cancer that's statistically more likely among the overweight);
* Orthopedist (treating me for torn meniscus, more likely with excess weight), nor the follow-on physical therapists;
* OB/Gyn.
(FWIW, most of my doctors have been at or at least close to normal weight, based on my amateur visual assessment. Only one oncologist was obviously overweight, possibly lower end of obese?) To me, that doesn't matter. Sure, maybe an overweight doctor mentioning weight to an overweight patient is a hypocrite. But *not* mentioning it, when relevant, is borderline incompetent performance, maybe even malpractice. The latter is worse.
That my doctors weren't harping on my weight seems odd in retrospect, so maybe the problem is my memory? 🤷♀️
I do remember talking about my weight with doctors, i.e., I remember saying "I know it would be better if I lost some weight", in multiple cases - i.e., I brought it up. I even remember telling an oncology PA that I was obese (my BMI was above 30 at the time), and having her dispute that. I told her to run the BMI calculation, and when she did, she admitted I was right. Maybe I just brought up my weight before the doctors did: I knew I was overweight/obese, and that it was a health risk (even before I experienced other health and test consequences later in life).
"Obese" is a technical term in a medical setting, based on weight and height. It's not a value judgement about good looks, sexiness, value as a human, or anything else. It's just a health metric, and a screening metric at that - i.e., an easy statistic that helps identify people who probably need a more individualized assessment. I was obese, by that definition, at 5'5", 183 pounds.
I was also super active, working out hard 6 days most weeks, even training and competing in a short-endurance sport (rowing), and not always unsuccessfully either. I suspect that's why I didn't look obese to the oncology PA: I wasn't as soft-looking, especially in my upper body, as most women of my height/weight whom she saw.
I'm pretty sure I have more than average muscle mass for my demographic, as a woman, though far from bodybuilder level. (That's me, in my profile photo, so y'all can judge for yourselves . . . and I haven't added muscle mass since weight loss, to my knowledge.)
At 183, my body fat percent was too high. I don't have a good estimate, but probably over 35% at the most optimistic bare minimum. Even in the mid-150s, when I joined MFP, I was still visibly fat, in terms of central-body fat . . . even though that was about the point where friends who were used to fat me had started saying "you don't need to lose more weight, you should stop".
When I lost weight, my GP and his assistant acted . . . astounded, even gobsmacked. I visit them every 6 months, because I'm hypothyroid, and had dropped from 165 to 129 pounds (after an 18 pound drop the previous 6 months, which didn’t gather any reaction that I remember). My inference from their stunned reaction was that this pretty much never happens, when someone – after much urging to take a drug for a related condition – says she wants to try improving the situation without medication. (Yes, my cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure had all become solidly normal - actually everything except HDL - the one that should be higher - had normalized with that first 18 pound drop, and it was only 1 point below normal then (has nearly doubled since).)
Now, I do hear about my weight from the GP, more like "don't need to lose weight". Well, yeah, at around 125 pounds at 5'5", BMI 20-point-something, no, I don't need to lose weight.
I think the way the doc phrased it at my recent visit was something like "most women need to lose weight, but you don't". Almost makes a person think that most people are overweight or higher, that average is not "BMI normal". (That'd be consistent with what I see in the community . . . and generally it seems like doctors' offices of various specialties seem to have an even higher fraction of higher-bodyweight people compared to say, grocery stores, though the average here most anywhere is for people to be overweight, especially among folks my age).
I don't think anyone should be shamed for their bodyweight, or discriminated against. I liked myself, liked my body, even when I was obese: My body could do cool things, and what the heck would I do without it? I 100% agree that the culture does implicitly and explicitly criticize and discriminate against people who are heavier than would be optimal for health. That's inappropriate, unfair. A doctor telling me I had an obese BMI, when I had an obese BMI, is not shaming, it's just a fact.
I especially disliked that, when overweight and obese, it was super difficult to find plus-size activewear, especially specialized active wear (things like wetsuits/drysuits, bike shorts, rowing gear, etc.). Believe me, I looked. I saw those things being more available for overweight men, less so for overweight women. (I get that availability is demand-driven, and that many women who are overweight are not active, so not helping create demand for those specialized products: Still, it's frustrating for those of us who want the gear, and I'm not the only woman who was active but overweight/obese.)
Something else I hear and read, that I also think constitutes criticism (though I don't personally feel ashamed): "Stick thin", "a skeleton", "real women have curves", etc.
Some women do have curves, some have a more squared-off or sporty build, some are narrow, and there's everything in between, and beyond. Though I don't feel shamed, as one of those sporty-build women, how should I - as a post-bilateral-mastectomies cancer survivor who didn't have reconstruction - react to "real women have curves"? In practice, I just laugh and shake my head.
Real women know who they are. It's not a function of body type.
No one should be shamed for their body type, nor feel ashamed of it. There are folks in every body size camp who use shaming, critical language. It's inappropriate.10 -
Nope, I have had to ask. I was having trouble losing weight (always have) so asked about it and despite having my weight in the chart, she always looked at me and said I don’t look overweight. All of my doctors have said this even though my weight has hovered around 140 lbs at 5’0” tall for years. I was 125 lbs for a while and she said I was a bit too slim. My previous doctor offered me phentermine which I refused.
As a medical provider myself (P.A.), I sometimes mention weight if it relevant to the patient’s condition in the emergency room but most patients don’t want to hear it no matter how kindly and tactfully I broach the subject. I believe this is why many doctors don’t bother. This is a topic that should be addressed in primary care more, for sure.
A lot of patients will blow the doctor off though. I have 300-400 lbs patients wondering why their knees or backs hurt at age 30 despite having normal imaging or why their diabetes is out of control and if you mention the extra weight they get mad. I know when I am 20 lbs heavier, I feel more pain in my body, so I can only imagine 100 to 200 extra pounds.10 -
Sorry, but if a healthy individual ate WITHIN the calorie allotment they are supposed to, they wouldn't be "naturally heavier.paperpudding wrote: »Nobody (barring obvious outliers like people with dwarfism or born with missing limbs) has a 'natural shape' that is far out of healthy BMI range
I’ve been outside of the “healthy” BMI range my whole life DESPITE a relatively healthy lifestyle. I know lots of women in the same boat. Some people are just naturally heavier!
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
16 -
I agree with you to a point. I hate BMI as a standard because for me it COSTS me more money. How? Well my life insurance policy is higher due to me being "very overweight and bordeline obese" based on BMI. And there's NO WAY if you saw in me real life that you'd say that.It's weird that people accept that the BMI is terrible and inacurrate but also seem to be defending it's use. Being over weight CAN be a major health issue. But since it's that big of a deal, shouldn't we want accurate measurments and guidelines?
I would prefer if we had BODY FAT PERCENTAGE measured accurately as a more usable standard. Lol, but could you imagine how some people would flip out over that? Finding out they could be 40% body fat and still think they aren't unhealthy?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
8
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