Apples...a zero calorie food??
Replies
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neat to have a Hobbit house and lay in there eating apples galore...chomp chomp2
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I think this might be like saying that if I have a maintenance calorie requirement of 1500 and I eat 1500 calories a day, then I am eating a zero calorie diet. I'm using what I am taking in, so I have zero EXCESS calories to store - but they aren't free.1
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I was craving apples today, Ate 3. Realize why now i remember this thread hah2
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I think this might be like saying that if I have a maintenance calorie requirement of 1500 and I eat 1500 calories a day, then I am eating a zero calorie diet. I'm using what I am taking in, so I have zero EXCESS calories to store - but they aren't free.
That's what it's trying to say, but its wrong, because the number calories from digesting an apple do not cancel out the number calories from the apple.1 -
Sorry to wade in mid-debate...but is it possible that the person who created the recipe was on a plan like Weight Watchers where in fact some foods are classified as 'free' to encourage people to eat more? Quite a few diet plans do this (I've tried most of them
), Slimming World being another. 0 -
Maybe, but if so, they were doing it wrong. WW's free foods cease to be free when used in recipes. So, an apple has zero points. But make an apple turnover and the points include the apple along with the pastry and sugar.2
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apples make me hungry. something to do with my body chemistry and fructose I think
just saying.2 -
sytchequeen wrote: »apples make me hungry. something to do with my body chemistry and fructose I think
just saying.
me too...if I eat one because I am hungry...give me about 15mins and I am back to being hungry/hungrier than I was before...
Unless it's a 1.5-2lb honey crisp...go figure..
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Lots of Great Fiber in your apples and WOW loved reading answers you elicited.
Fantastic post!
Thanks for this wink:
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »My dietician told me that apples have no affect on the body, especially your blood sugar. She also told me that when you eat the apple with the core, the core acts like a protectant to the carbs and sugar being digested into your system. Pretty cool!
I was pre-diabetic and my blood sugar did go up after apples, and yes I've always eaten the core.
Team Eats-the-Core fist-bump! And here I never knew I was protecting myself from the big bad carbs and sugars at the same time. Oh shoot though, this giant Honeycrisp is supposed to be half of my calories for my second-lunch -
maybe I should skip the core so I don't get hungry later.
Not gonna lie you guys - this apple might be Too Big.
Second lunch? Are you a Hobbit? You love some secondsies.
I mean, they DO adhere to the "6 meals a day" bro diet.6 -
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Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
You continue to reference this alternative that is more reasonable and more realistic, but I have yet to see you articulate what that approach is. Can you outline it for us - for those people who find the concept of calorie counting daunting - what is your recommendation for them? You acknowledge (I think) that weight loss comes down to CICO, but you think logging on the CI side is time consuming and daunting, and you think that exercise estimates on the CO side are inflated... so what is your method for assuring CI<CO?6 -
This content has been removed.
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Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
but you calorie count? in your head...you said so in another post. You keep track...
and the vast majority of people 95%+ is a stretch...
and you go to an extreme of "counting every morsel..." which yes is recommended for losing the weight but not maintaining.
I count calories on MFP and will continue until such time as I feel I won't regain if I stop. I won't be counting everything perfectly or by weight all the time...aka weighing lettuce and garlic.
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Ericnutrition wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
You continue to reference this alternative that is more reasonable and more realistic, but I have yet to see you articulate what that approach is. Can you outline it for us - for those people who find the concept of calorie counting daunting - what is your recommendation for them? You acknowledge (I think) that weight loss comes down to CICO, but you think logging on the CI side is time consuming and daunting, and you think that exercise estimates on the CO side are inflated... so what is your method for assuring CI<CO?
Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting. In fact, far more people lose the desired weight without calorie counting. I am not arguing the CI<CO.
Having said that, most people fail at dieting, no matter how they try to lose weight.
No one disputes that you can achieve a calorie deficit without counting calories. But what is your recommendation for someone who feels counting calories is daunting. You keep saying that people can be successful without it, and that's right. You also keep saying that most people fail. That's also true, by the numbers. So what specifically should they do? They obviously need to make a change, in order to lose weight, what do you recommend that they do? Do you have a recommendation, or do you just want to argue with those of us who ARE successfully using this approach, many of us who have long since achieved our goals and are sticking around the forums to help others?10 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
Again, you bring up "for life" when nobody else has mentioned it.
You're aware that we have many successful maintainers here who used accurate logging and calorie counting to lose weight and have other strategies for maintaining, right?
Or do you just love your strawman so much that you can't let it go even when it doesn't relate to the topic?8 -
@Ericnutrition is it really that hard to find a more productive hobby that doesn't involve derailing threads?
21 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
What qualifies you to speak for 95%+ of people? Do you have research statistics to back this assertion? And why are you on a calorie counting sight if you don't believe counting calories is effective?6 -
I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.3 -
I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.
Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative.7 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
You continue to reference this alternative that is more reasonable and more realistic, but I have yet to see you articulate what that approach is. Can you outline it for us - for those people who find the concept of calorie counting daunting - what is your recommendation for them? You acknowledge (I think) that weight loss comes down to CICO, but you think logging on the CI side is time consuming and daunting, and you think that exercise estimates on the CO side are inflated... so what is your method for assuring CI<CO?
Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting. In fact, far more people lose the desired weight without calorie counting. I am not arguing the CI<CO.
Having said that, most people fail at dieting, no matter how they try to lose weight.
Plenty of people maintain their finances without balancing their checkbooks. No one would actually endorse this as recommended behavior.
Those "far more" people who lose the desired weight will also regain the weight because they neglected to learn the discipline required to succeed in the long term.
Just a constant source of puppies and sunshine aren't you.8 -
I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.
Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative.
Lettuce is low calorie, not zero calorie.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.
Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative.
Lettuce is low calorie, not zero calorie.
[sarcasm] Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative. [/sarcasm]8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.
Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative.
Lettuce is low calorie, not zero calorie.
[sarcasm] Why don't you eat lettuce? It's a zero calorie food. Maybe even negative. [/sarcasm]
Oops, sorry.
3 -
What qualifies you to speak for 95%+ of people? Do you have research statistics to back this assertion? And why are you on a calorie counting sight if you don't believe counting calories is effective?
He gets his information from the National Statistics Institute of his *kitten*. They are pretty big into getting numbers into conversations.
10 -
Nothing in life is free.. point to ponder0
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Ericnutrition wrote: »Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting. In fact, far more people lose the desired weight without calorie counting. I am not arguing the CI<CO.
Having said that, most people fail at dieting, no matter how they try to lose weight.
To the bolded, you keep making this statement with out context, and context is VERY important in the success/failure of a diet. IRL, here is what usually happens:
A person steps on the scale one morning and says "OMG I can't weigh that much!". Then the our subject goes on a 'diet' (insert your favorite flavor of the month here) and manages to lose the weight that they want to lose. Our subject then goes back to the way that they were eating before they went on the diet and gains back all of the weight that they lost (and usually some extra weight to go with it).
In this scenario, did the diet fail? No - they lost the weight that they wanted to lose. What failed here was that the subject looked at the 'diet' as a temporary change that would fix their problem, ignoring the fact that going back to the way of eating that they had always had was what led to them being overweight in the first place. This is why diets fail - because people look at them as temporary changes that can be discarded as soon as the weight is lost. Calorie counting, keto, DASH, etc. all work as diets but the person has to be willing to make permanent changes in order to keep the weight off.
Most people don't fail at dieting - most people fail at changing their relationships with food and eating.
eta for spelling12 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
You continue to reference this alternative that is more reasonable and more realistic, but I have yet to see you articulate what that approach is. Can you outline it for us - for those people who find the concept of calorie counting daunting - what is your recommendation for them? You acknowledge (I think) that weight loss comes down to CICO, but you think logging on the CI side is time consuming and daunting, and you think that exercise estimates on the CO side are inflated... so what is your method for assuring CI<CO?
Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting. In fact, far more people lose the desired weight without calorie counting. I am not arguing the CI<CO.
Having said that, most people fail at dieting, no matter how they try to lose weight.
What do you suggest instead?4 -
I weigh garlic and I don't eat lettuce. (I do, however, weigh spinach.) I don't find it "daunting." In fact it helps sometimes, as it is easy for me to add waaay too much garlic. (I would eat it anyway, but not everyone would.)
I love apples but they do have calories (typically 80-150). They don't make me hungrier, but they only give me a 1-2 hour boost so I try to eat them shortly before a meal.
No such thing as too much garlic.10 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Here is the problem. Calorie counting works (if you can do it; most people fail at it like they fail with most diets). So if you suggest calorie counting to a newbie, and tell that newbie that you have to measure/weigh spinach, lettuce, garlic, onions, etc., most of them are not even going to try, no matter how easy it is for you.
Also, if you are a successful calorie counter and have reached your weight goal, continuing to count every single morsel of food you put into your mouth is a little odd, IMHO. If you gain a couple of pounds, so what? Then go back to careful calorie counting and lose the two pounds.
And not counting every morsel doesn't mean you're going to back to your old diet of double cheeseburgers, fries and a shake. You should have a pretty good idea of what you can eat to be near your goals.
So why is someone who thinks calorie counting is "A little odd, IMHO", combined with your hilarious thoughts on why people fail.... on a calorie counting website???
The message is to people who have never calorie counted and are considering it.
I measured/weighed/counted calories diligently for a month or so, less diligently for a month or so, then pretty much stopped because I didn't like doing it.
I continued to lose weight and met my goal. How? Those first two months were my calorie education. That's all I needed.
However, I read labels on packaged goods and in restaurants (where provided).
So, like many people, you found another way to consistently be in a deficit.
What relevance does this have to people who find calorie counting to be a painless way to do the same thing?
It has relevance to the vast majority of people (95%+) who would find the idea of counting every morsel of food they put into their mouths for the rest of their lives a total non-starter.
For those who want to count every calories for life, great, more power to you. But to those who don't, there are more reasonable and realistic approaches to calorie counting and calorie awareness. Weighing spinach and lettuce and garlic is not one of them.
You continue to reference this alternative that is more reasonable and more realistic, but I have yet to see you articulate what that approach is. Can you outline it for us - for those people who find the concept of calorie counting daunting - what is your recommendation for them? You acknowledge (I think) that weight loss comes down to CICO, but you think logging on the CI side is time consuming and daunting, and you think that exercise estimates on the CO side are inflated... so what is your method for assuring CI<CO?
Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting. In fact, far more people lose the desired weight without calorie counting. I am not arguing the CI<CO.
Having said that, most people fail at dieting, no matter how they try to lose weight.
Plenty of people lose weight without calorie counting, yes. That's irrelevant to this thread.
It also has nothing to do with your odd take that counting all calories but for vegetables is a good approach based on the idea that vegetables might as well have no calories. If you are eating the recommended amount of vegetables, no, they do not. I understand that you yourself may not eat many calories from vegetables, but that's hardly something to promote, if it is true. And you are ignore the fact that for many people tracking (which may or may not mean actually counting calories) fruits and vegetables could well be a way of making tracking or logging more fun and something they are more likely to do and could well be a way of encouraging themselves to eat more vegetables and fruit (which is often a good idea).
The idea that we should just ignore vegetables while counting everything else has always struck me as something I would never find interesting or worth doing. (On the other hand, I can lose weight counting/logging or not.)3
This discussion has been closed.
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