Calories are NOT the enemy!
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A calorie is a calorie.
Too many over your Basal Metabolic Rate without exercise will cause you to not just put on weight but it will be FAT you put on.4 -
Calories are just calories. You can gain weight if you eat too much broccoli and plain chicken as well as if you ate too much pizza. You can eat pizza or drink beer and lose weight if you have not exceeded your maintenance calorie level.
If you want to lose weight you must eat less, burn more calories or both.
Counting calories is a useful tool for weight management.
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The point is, if you are reading the calories on a menu item, and those numbers deter you from enjoying yourself, it may be time to re-evaluate what really makes you happy.
The problem with this statement is that a lot of us here, are here, simply because we have used food as comfort, entertainment, reward, socialization, relaxation, stress-relief or have full blown food addictions. We don't have the ability to eat "some french fries" or one piece of pizza or stop at one beer and some of us are unable to exercise at a level required to burn off a 2,000-calorie entree. It's kind of like telling an alcoholic it's okay to have a drink as long "as it's in moderation" and it "makes him happy". One drink, or one slice of pizza may be the trigger that puts some of us into a full-blown, days-long, binge. Personally, I don't worry about what other people are eating (or not eating) and I just worry about myself and my own intake. Bottom line is that you don't know their story, their struggles or what they may have already overcome. Maybe their choice to read calorie labels and steer away from high-calorie foods is an effort to "be healthy" and maybe that IS THE VERY THING that has been a source of happiness for them. Don't presume to know why they are making those choices and unless someone is obviously suffering from an eating disorder (anorexia or bulemia), then don't comment on or judge their food choices. Someone telling me what to eat (or not eat) has never resulted in successful weight loss, eating healthier or making better food choices and in most cases, it made things worse.
For me personally, there is no high-calorie meal that makes me feel better than being able to zip up my jeans without the use of a crowbar or actually feel a little slack in the hip area of a pair of slacks that I used to spill out of or of seeing a photo of myself and not thinking "God, I am huge!" The countless tears I have shed in my life and the terrible way I felt about how I looked most of my teen years and adult life prevented me from doing so many things in my life because I was self-conscious about my weight, hated the way I looked or didn't have anything to wear because clothes shopping was an exercise in humiliation and sadness, usually followed up with tears and self-hatred. There is no donut or milkshake on the planet that tastes better than feeling good about myself. If I want a cookie, I'll have a cookie, but most of the time, I want to be happy more than I want a cookie and for me, happiness is not found on a menu, it is found in my mirror when I see a thinner, healthier, happier me looking back at myself. Live and let live and let people make their own choices about food without having to put your two cents in. They will be happier and so will you.12 -
I sort of understand where he's coming from in a sense but wouldn't it be more of sugar to worry about which is our biggest enemy and not so much the calories?
For Example:
19 pieces of candy corn only 140 calories but 30 grams of sugar
1 can of pepsi only 150 calories but 41 grams of sugar.
1 Chicken breast 140 calories but no sugar
1 can of tuna 160 calories and no sugar
Both similar but one loaded with sugar and the other none. I think that's sort of what he means by bad and good calories? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we all know sugar is what makes us all gain weight. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is sort of what he's getting at?
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I sort of understand where he's coming from in a sense but wouldn't it be more of sugar to worry about which is our biggest enemy and not so much the calories?
For Example:
19 pieces of candy corn only 140 calories but 30 grams of sugar
1 can of pepsi only 150 calories but 41 grams of sugar.
1 Chicken breast 140 calories but no sugar
1 can of tuna 160 calories and no sugar
Both similar but one loaded with sugar and the other none. I think that's sort of what he means by bad and good calories? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we all know sugar is what makes us all gain weight. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is sort of what he's getting at?
Sugar doesn't cause weight gain. Eating more calories than our bodies require is what causes weight gain.18 -
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I sort of understand where he's coming from in a sense but wouldn't it be more of sugar to worry about which is our biggest enemy and not so much the calories?
For Example:
19 pieces of candy corn only 140 calories but 30 grams of sugar
1 can of pepsi only 150 calories but 41 grams of sugar.
1 Chicken breast 140 calories but no sugar
1 can of tuna 160 calories and no sugar
Both similar but one loaded with sugar and the other none. I think that's sort of what he means by bad and good calories? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we all know sugar is what makes us all gain weight. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is sort of what he's getting at?
Sugar isn't what makes us gain weight. Excess calories cause weight gain. While it's true that many people do consume excess calories in the form of sugar, if you choose 140 calories of candy corn instead of 140 calories of chicken and hit your calorie goal, you'll be fine.12 -
Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.17
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
I wouldn't recommend that much sugar as it would crowd out other nutrients but in terms of weight loss yes it would be the same10 -
Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 200 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
For weight loss, it's the same.
Some people find find it harder to be in a deficit with that much sugar if sugar (or certain foods with sugar) prompts cravings, but that's not unique to sugar (many foods can trigger cravings and some people have no problems at all with it).
Others may find it hard to meet their nutritional needs overall if they have 200 grams of sugar (but this is going to be heavily influenced by the types of sugar-containing foods that are chosen).
But no, sugar doesn't make you fat. If someone is going to lose weight on 2,000 calories, then they'll lose weight on 2,000 calories with 200 grams of sugar.
If it's the first time you're ever hearing that, it's because sugar is as demonized today as fat was in the 1980s. It's very trendy to blame sugar for obesity right now.15 -
Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.15 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
I wouldn't recommend that much sugar as it would crowd out other nutrients but in terms of weight loss yes it would be the same
An important consideration would be where the sugar is coming from. I'm not getting 200 grams today, but I will be eating almost 100. The biggest sources of sugar in my diet today, for example, are cabbage, a banana, and some carrot-tomato soup. They all have a lot nutrients in them besides the sugar, so I consider it irrelevant to meeting my nutritional needs.
Now if that sugar was all coming from, say Twizzlers and Coca-Cola, two foods that don't have a lot of nutrients besides sugar, it might be much more challenging for me. (This isn't to say that people should avoid these foods, just that eating larger quantities of them may make meeting nutritional needs more challenging).
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Whereever it is that you've read that sugar makes you fat - stop visiting that site, don't read that blog, don't buy that magazine, don't visit that doctor, and never talk about diet with that friend every again. It is rubbish.
Weight is an energy balance. Your body burns a certain amount of calories each day, this is your TDEE or your maintenance calories. If you eat less than that amount, you will lose weight. If you eat more than that amount, you will gain weight.
Sugar can be naturally occurring in foods like fruits, vegetables, dairy, etc. Sugar is also added to foods - sweet things that you'd expect but sometimes things like tomato sauce, salad dressing, etc. Regardless, how that impacts whether you gain or lose weight is related to the total calories in those foods - you keep mentioning a diet of no sugar - that would literally be meat and oil. Does that sound like a healthy diet?
So bottom line - eat a variety of foods you enjoy, focusing on those that provide nutrition, satiety, and enjoyment, in a calorie deficit - and you will lose weight. Sugar is not the enemy. Bad information is.
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.36 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »What on earth is a bad calorie?
One who comes from the hood and will cap your *kitten* if your look at them wrong.7 -
Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
If you have too many calories (period) you will gain weight. In the scenario that you are proposing (i.e. 400 grams of sugar) that is a minimum of 1600 calories just in the sugar alone. You would have a VERY difficult time eating anything else and staying under your 1800 calories for the day.
And again, since you didn't seem to catch it the first time - sugar DOES NOT MAKE YOU FAT. Total calorie intake over the amount needed to maintain your current weight makes you gain weight - whether those calories come from veggies, meat, dairy or eating sugar directly from the bag.
For the record, the minimum set in your diary is based on the WHO guidelines for ADDED sugar.15 -
I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you - why is it bad for you as part of a balanced diet?
and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain - only if you are in a calorie surplus.
So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. Bet you don't understand what that number is really saying. It could all be coming from your fruit, vegetables and grains...
So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? Of course not. How can you store excess energy as fat when you are in a energy deficit?
I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. Who is being ridiculous?
(lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much. You should try some reputable information sources.
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NorthCascades wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »My apologies @Iamnotasenior and @cmriverside . What I should have said is that certain individuals are genetically susceptible to being obese through a number of causes. Eating is only one of these.
I'm not even sure how it got to this point, because this was never a part of my original post.
Because you made the claim that if someone is "genetically overweight" eating "bad foods" will keep them from losing weight, even if they're in a deficit.
Or am I misunderstanding your argument?
I don't think that was his argument. This thread would have gone better if he'd never brought it up, it seems like it was more of a tangent. I think his main argument is everything in moderation, including moderation.
His main argument was that he has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.11 -
NorthCascades wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »My apologies @Iamnotasenior and @cmriverside . What I should have said is that certain individuals are genetically susceptible to being obese through a number of causes. Eating is only one of these.
I'm not even sure how it got to this point, because this was never a part of my original post.
Because you made the claim that if someone is "genetically overweight" eating "bad foods" will keep them from losing weight, even if they're in a deficit.
Or am I misunderstanding your argument?
I don't think that was his argument. This thread would have gone better if he'd never brought it up, it seems like it was more of a tangent. I think his main argument is everything in moderation, including moderation.
I agree...I think he originally was trying to say enjoy a variety of foods and don't fear the more calorie dense foods on occasions. Unfortunately he mixed in some bad information in there and when you do that in these forums you will have to explain yourself
It's wild how people can read the same statements and get completely different meanings. Almost as wild as how different our taste are...because I wouldn't get out of my chair for a salt and vinegar potato chip
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
I don't need to research sugar to tell me that eating fewer calories than I consume, no matter where they come from, will result in weight loss. I just need basic math skills. Thanks, elementary school!
And yes, if your maintenance calories are 1800 and all you did was consume 1500 calories a day of soda you would lose weight. You would be malnourished and likely cranky, but you would weigh less.18 -
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
Too many calories cause weight gain - regardless of the source of the calories. "Added sugar" is today's version of the 80s "fat causes fat". It's diet industry woo.
Embrace the science. Sweet beautiful objective evidence based science.12 -
Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
you may want to look into doing your research somewhere other than google since you are completely misinformed.6 -
CALORIE ARNT REAL!!! PHYSICS STUFF IS STUDF9
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
I don't need to research sugar to tell me that eating fewer calories than I consume, no matter where they come from, will result in weight loss. I just need basic math skills. Thanks, elementary school!
And yes, if your maintenance calories are 1800 and all you did was consume 1500 calories a day of soda you would lose weight. You would be malnourished and likely cranky, but you would weigh less.Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
I don't need to research sugar to tell me that eating fewer calories than I consume, no matter where they come from, will result in weight loss. I just need basic math skills. Thanks, elementary school!
And yes, if your maintenance calories are 1800 and all you did was consume 1500 calories a day of soda you would lose weight. You would be malnourished and likely cranky, but you would weigh less.
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
So, if I lost 50+ pounds while exceeding my default MFP sugar goal every day - as I did - does that mean the loss was imaginary?
No one should have a diet consisting mostly of sugar. That's just silly. It wouldn't be healthy (*). But if they do, and it has fewer calories than they burn, they will lose weight.
(* It wouldn't be healthy because they wouldn't get enough protein, fats, fiber and micronutrients, not because sugar.)
Drinking the Kool-Aid is a Bad Plan even (especially?) if it's sugar free. Better Plan: Find more authoritative authorities.10 -
bambi your comment about 1500 calories on only soda is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Go to the website actiononsugar and do some reading about sugar intake. It's a known and true fact that excessive sugar intake especially soft drinks are linked to weight gain. You are only suppose to have 10% of sugar intake on a daily basis of your entire calorie intake. Here's some facts for you:
A 20 year study of men and women who increased their sugary drink consumption by one 12 ounce serving a day gained weight over time than people who didn't change anything. And for each 12 ounce soda that children consumed each day, their obesity odds increased by 60%
People who consume sugary drinks regularly, 1-2 cans a day have a 26% chance of getting type 2 diabetes.
Children in the u.s from 1999 to 2004 averaged 224 calories a day from sugary drinks which is about 11% of sugar intake a day. by 2008 it increased to 60% of their daily sugar intake CAUSING SIGNIFICANT WEIGHT GAIN.
So don't tell me too much sugar doesn't cause weight gain. But I guess the people who did this study are wrong as well.32 -
I've never had much of a sweet tooth but I've gained weight eating too much savory food. Because weight gain and loss and maintenance is about calories, from all sources not just the ones you deem "bad."5
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https://www.muscleforlife.com/sugar-facts/while it’s true that some people’s bodies do better with carbohydrate (all forms) than others, it’s simply not true that sucrose or even HFCS are especially fattening. As you now know, these two molecules just aren’t that special. They are just a source of glucose for the body like any other carbohydrate.
And in fact, carbohydrates (in all forms) aren’t stored as body fat as efficiently as dietary fats are. Yes, strictly speaking, olive oil is more fattening than table sugar.
What is especially fattening, then? Overeating. That is, feeding your body more energy than it needs every day, regardless of what foods are providing the excess energy.
The article links to a study that found that...higher intakes of sugar were related to leanness, not obesity, and had no detrimental effects on micronutrient intakes in most people. In the case of dental caries, there was a relationship between frequency of sugar intake and the incidence of decay. However, in populations where fluoride use was adequate, associations between sugar intake and caries rarely reached statistical significance.
Another one referenced in the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14522746The Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee discussed whether to specify added sugars rather than the broader term sugars but decided that it was not possible to conclude that added sugars per se play a negative role in the public's health. The Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee issued a call for more definitive studies of the role of sugars in current diets and the potential effect of a reduction in added sugars on both dietary quality and energy intake. The American Heart Association recently released a statement advising consumers to limit sugars consumption. The macronutrient report for the dietary reference intakes addresses many of these same issues; the expert panel concluded that it was not appropriate to set a tolerable upper intake level for added sugars but suggested a maximal intake level of 25% of energy from added sugars because of concerns about reduced intakes of essential micronutrients.
That's from the abstract. From the paper itself:
“It is important to state at the outset that there is no direct connection between added sugars intake and obesity unless excessive consumption of sugar-containing beverages and foods leads to energy imbalance and the resultant weight gain.”
The article adds:You see, if you give your body a lot more energy than it needs every day, whether from excess amounts of protein, carbohydrate, or dietary fat, you’ll get fatter. This has been conclusively proven in clinical research. There is no debating this fact.
And this is where we get to the actual problem with sugar intake and getting/staying fat: the more you eat foods with added sugars, the easier it is to overeat.
This is especially true of liquid carbohydrates, including beverages with added sugar. If you love caloric beverages, you’ll probably stay fat forever. You can drink 1,000 calories and be hungry an hour later, whereas eating 1,000 calories of food, including a good portion of protein and fiber, will probably keep you full for 5 to 6 hours.11
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