Calories are NOT the enemy!
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bambi your comment about 1500 calories on only soda is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Go to the website actiononsugar and do some reading about sugar intake. It's a known and true fact that excessive sugar intake especially soft drinks are linked to weight gain. You are only suppose to have 10% of sugar intake on a daily basis of your entire calorie intake. Here's some facts for you:
A 20 year study of men and women who increased their sugary drink consumption by one 12 ounce serving a day gained weight over time than people who didn't change anything. And for each 12 ounce soda that children consumed each day, their obesity odds increased by 60%
People who consume sugary drinks regularly, 1-2 cans a day have a 26% chance of getting type 2 diabetes.
Children in the u.s from 1999 to 2004 averaged 224 calories a day from sugary drinks which is about 11% of sugar intake a day. by 2008 it increased to 60% of their daily sugar intake CAUSING SIGNIFICANT WEIGHT GAIN.
So don't tell me too much sugar doesn't cause weight gain. But I guess the people who did this study are wrong as well.
Increasing calorie consumption is what causes weight gain not sugar itself. BTW you really need to learn how to vet sources. If you want scientific information you should be using Google scholar and peer reviewed scientific research not a biased site like "action sugar". If 1500 is a calorie deficit you will lose weight even if it is only from soda.12 -
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Okay so if you eat 2000 calories a day with 300 grams of sugar included then it's the same as 2,000 calories a day with no sugar? Sugar doesn't make you fat? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
Really? You've only ever heard that sugar makes a person fat? So, hypothetically, if I eat 5,000 calories of tuna a day, I won't gain any weight even though my maintenance calories are around 2,000...because no sugar? Doesn't make much sense, does it.
Your hypothetically comment is ridiculous. I'm trying to make the point that added sugar is not good for you and it's a fact that too much sugar can cause weight gain. So mfp tells me on a 1800 calorie a day diet that I should only eat 100 grams MAXIMUM of sugar a day. So if I don't exercise or workout at all, eat only say 1500 calories a day but ingest 400 grams of sugar in my diet every day staying under my calories, I won't gain weight? I can't wait to go tell my two daughter's to drink all the pepsi, sunnyd and apple juice as much as they want because sugar won't make them fat. (lol) You should try googling and doing your research about sugar because it will make you gain weight if you have too much.
400 grams of sugar is 1600 calories...10 -
http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf
"There was convincing evidence that energy balance is critical to maintaining healthy
body weight and ensuring optimal nutrient intakes, regardless of macronutrient
distribution expressed in energy percentage (%E). "
But what do they know, they're just the WHO and FAO, not "actionsugar".10 -
Some of the misunderstandings about sugar here are concerning. The reason you should avoid bombing your system with sugar is not the calories, it's because our bodies need to regulate the amount of glucose in our bloodstream and if you just smash yourself with huge overdoses of it, you will eventually overwhelm your body's ability to cope....... In conclusion. Diabetes.23
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Some of the misunderstandings about sugar here are concerning. The reason you should avoid bombing your system with sugar is not the calories, it's because our bodies need to regulate the amount of glucose in our bloodstream and if you just smash yourself with huge overdoses of it, you will eventually overwhelm your body's ability to cope....... In conclusion. Diabetes.
who was suggesting that anyone "smash" themselves with overdoses of sugar???6 -
Some of the misunderstandings about sugar here are concerning. The reason you should avoid bombing your system with sugar is not the calories, it's because our bodies need to regulate the amount of glucose in our bloodstream and if you just smash yourself with huge overdoses of it, you will eventually overwhelm your body's ability to cope....... In conclusion. Diabetes.
That is not how diabetes works.8 -
Some of the misunderstandings about sugar here are concerning. The reason you should avoid bombing your system with sugar is not the calories, it's because our bodies need to regulate the amount of glucose in our bloodstream and if you just smash yourself with huge overdoses of it, you will eventually overwhelm your body's ability to cope....... In conclusion. Diabetes.
That's not at all proven.
What we do know is that on average people who eat huge amounts of sugar tend to also eat more calories than they should (it's easy to overeat if you consume a great deal of sugary soda -- which most don't find filling -- or lots of foods with added sugar, many of which ALSO have a ton of added fat). Thus, there is a correlation between eating lots of added sugar and being overweight, and obesity and overweight are significant risk factors for diabetes.
Eating lots of added sugar also correlates with other things that violate health advice (which makes sense, as if you aren't following the advice, you aren't following the advice) so many who eat lots of added sugar ALSO may not watch their diet at all, may get few vegetables or fruit or sources of fiber, may get their protein largely from fatty meat and fried things, and may fail to exercise. These tend to be risk factors for diabetes and other negative health results too.
I've yet to see anything that indicates that merely a high sugar intake -- let alone a high sugar intake from whole foods like fruits and veg, plus dairy -- leads to diabetes or anything else bad, if the overall diet is nutritionally adequate (i.e., not missing protein or essential fats, sufficient micros, not overly high or low cal).
More to the point, you can eat a terrible diet and not gain and even lose. I am NOT recommending this, but it's important to understand how it's actually works.
I'd love for someone claiming that a person with a TDEE of 2000 can fail to lose if she consistently consumes a diet made up of a couple of protein shakes and the rest soda, say, to make up 1200 calories. Obviously that's a ridiculous diet I don't think anyone sensible would do, and no one would not know it's a bad diet, but for pretend. Tell me how that person, physically, can gain or even fail to lose on that diet. If all the sugar calories go to fat, how does the person fuel their needs? Magic?4 -
bambi your comment about 1500 calories on only soda is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Go to the website actiononsugar and do some reading about sugar intake. It's a known and true fact that excessive sugar intake especially soft drinks are linked to weight gain. You are only suppose to have 10% of sugar intake on a daily basis of your entire calorie intake. Here's some facts for you:
A 20 year study of men and women who increased their sugary drink consumption by one 12 ounce serving a day gained weight over time than people who didn't change anything. And for each 12 ounce soda that children consumed each day, their obesity odds increased by 60%
People who consume sugary drinks regularly, 1-2 cans a day have a 26% chance of getting type 2 diabetes.
Children in the u.s from 1999 to 2004 averaged 224 calories a day from sugary drinks which is about 11% of sugar intake a day. by 2008 it increased to 60% of their daily sugar intake CAUSING SIGNIFICANT WEIGHT GAIN.
So don't tell me too much sugar doesn't cause weight gain. But I guess the people who did this study are wrong as well.
You are wrong. There is no other way to say it. Misinformed and incorrect in your assertions. I suggest you start reading science instead of fear-mongering websites.13 -
Some of the misunderstandings about sugar here are concerning. The reason you should avoid bombing your system with sugar is not the calories, it's because our bodies need to regulate the amount of glucose in our bloodstream and if you just smash yourself with huge overdoses of it, you will eventually overwhelm your body's ability to cope....... In conclusion. Diabetes.
I couldn't agree more with the first sentence - there clearly are a lot of misunderstandings about sugar expressed in this thread the last couple of pages and they are very concerning.
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Okay, I see now that your all right about the sugar intake. As everyone knows when you log in a food journal, you can delete it or change the portion sizes. I logged in a "fake" journal just for arguments sake to see what would happen. I had my sugar intake at 200grams but still kept all my food at 1600 calories for the day which is what I allow myself everyday including my 10k run I do and it still said after five weeks I would be the same weight. So why is everyone telling us that sugar is so bad and to stay away from it? I hear this all the time from co workers, family members etc... And even a crap load of websites saying how bad it is. You've all made you point but I'm still keeping my sugar intake at 50 grams daily. Having this debate will not make me go out a eat a ton of sugar now. The studies I found must be kids or adults exceeding their calories on a daily basis. That was one thing not included in these studies is how many calories they were having.8
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Okay, I see now that your all right about the sugar intake. As everyone knows when you log in a food journal, you can delete it or change the portion sizes. I logged in a "fake" journal just for arguments sake to see what would happen. I had my sugar intake at 200grams but still kept all my food at 1600 calories for the day which is what I allow myself everyday including my 10k run I do and it still said after five weeks I would be the same weight. So why is everyone telling us that sugar is so bad and to stay away from it? I hear this all the time from co workers, family members etc... And even a crap load of websites saying how bad it is. You've all made you point but I'm still keeping my sugar intake at 50 grams daily. Having this debate will not make me go out a eat a ton of sugar now. The studies I found must be kids or adults exceeding their calories on a daily basis. That was one thing not included in these studies is how many calories they were having.
There is a tremendous amount of misinformation available to people today - fear mongering blog sites, clickbait ads promoting 10 foods to never eat if you want to lose weight, sites that list the "white devils" of sugar, flour and salt, infographics showing how many grams of sugar are in a bottle of coke, etc. Your question about "why" is thi type of information so prevalent - most of it comes down to money. Ad funding, site clicks, sale of books, etc.
As is discussed time and again on these boards - no one is advocating for excessive sugar consumption. What we are trying to convey, and science supports, is that in an overall balanced, calorie controlled diet, with no medical reasons to avoid sugars, then sugar consumption (both natural and added) is fine in moderation. It's all about context and dosage, and that's what none of the sites you are referencing, ever mention.
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Okay, I see now that your all right about the sugar intake. As everyone knows when you log in a food journal, you can delete it or change the portion sizes. I logged in a "fake" journal just for arguments sake to see what would happen. I had my sugar intake at 200grams but still kept all my food at 1600 calories for the day which is what I allow myself everyday including my 10k run I do and it still said after five weeks I would be the same weight. So why is everyone telling us that sugar is so bad and to stay away from it? I hear this all the time from co workers, family members etc... And even a crap load of websites saying how bad it is. You've all made you point but I'm still keeping my sugar intake at 50 grams daily. Having this debate will not make me go out a eat a ton of sugar now. The studies I found must be kids or adults exceeding their calories on a daily basis. That was one thing not included in these studies is how many calories they were having.
You know that there are other reasons to watch what you eat besides weight loss, right? That I would certainly lose weight on a diet of 1200 calories of soda is NOT saying that such a diet is fine and good for me. It would be obviously terrible. Would one soda per day be terrible? Well, I dislike sugary soda, so for me, yeah, but in general, no, it would be okay if the diet as a whole was good.
So why are people saying that lots of ADDED sugar is generally not a good idea and that keeping it at 10% (or even 5%) of calories is recommended? I think this was explained above, but because (1) most people don't count calories, and if you eat lots of foods with added sugar (which often also have lots of calories from fat and not many nutrients) you are likely to overeat (eat too many calories); and (2) even if you avoid that you may crowd out with the sweets all the foods that you need to eat for a healthy diet (protein, healthy fats, fiber, micronutrients).
Sugar from foods that have lots of micronutrients (i.e., vegetables, fruit, some dairy) or a little sugar added to things like oats or even coffee or something with added sugar eaten in moderation within the context of a healthy diet do not pose this same issue.
Nor, generally, does something like a gel consumed by an endurance runner or biker who is only replenishing a small portion of overall calories burned during the activity.
None of this means that sugar has magical "causes weight gain in a deficit" properties, and saying it does not does not mean that your overall diet does not matter or that it's healthy to eat any amount of sugar and to ignore everything else.2 -
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bambi your comment about 1500 calories on only soda is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Go to the website actiononsugar and do some reading about sugar intake. It's a known and true fact that excessive sugar intake especially soft drinks are linked to weight gain. You are only suppose to have 10% of sugar intake on a daily basis of your entire calorie intake. Here's some facts for you:
A 20 year study of men and women who increased their sugary drink consumption by one 12 ounce serving a day gained weight over time than people who didn't change anything. And for each 12 ounce soda that children consumed each day, their obesity odds increased by 60%
People who consume sugary drinks regularly, 1-2 cans a day have a 26% chance of getting type 2 diabetes.
Children in the u.s from 1999 to 2004 averaged 224 calories a day from sugary drinks which is about 11% of sugar intake a day. by 2008 it increased to 60% of their daily sugar intake CAUSING SIGNIFICANT WEIGHT GAIN.
So don't tell me too much sugar doesn't cause weight gain. But I guess the people who did this study are wrong as well.
Because they're eating normally (probably) IN ADDITION TO the sugary foods and drinks. Not BECAUSE OF the sugar.1 -
Okay, I see now that your all right about the sugar intake. As everyone knows when you log in a food journal, you can delete it or change the portion sizes. I logged in a "fake" journal just for arguments sake to see what would happen. I had my sugar intake at 200grams but still kept all my food at 1600 calories for the day which is what I allow myself everyday including my 10k run I do and it still said after five weeks I would be the same weight. So why is everyone telling us that sugar is so bad and to stay away from it? I hear this all the time from co workers, family members etc... And even a crap load of websites saying how bad it is. You've all made you point but I'm still keeping my sugar intake at 50 grams daily. Having this debate will not make me go out a eat a ton of sugar now. The studies I found must be kids or adults exceeding their calories on a daily basis. That was one thing not included in these studies is how many calories they were having.
Excellent.
To the very good explanations in posts above, I'd add the cranky and arbitrary li'l ol' lady opinion that what you're seeing about sugar is not very different from what happens - especially in the internet era - with any other moderately complex scientific information that's of potential use to average (not very science oriented) people.
Press release writers at research institutions look at the research, and write a press release. They're commonly not scientists themselves, but take their work seriously. The press release usually isn't false, but it's written in a more definite (less hedged) style, and may emphasize different aspects than the research paper, because PR needs a "hook".
People in the general media read the press release, filter it through their own beliefs, plus often apply some inadequate reading comprehension and poor reasoning, then marry it with things they already "know", some of which are false. Few of them read the actual research paper. They then write news stories and blog articles for the rest of us. Things are getting pretty iffy, by this point.
Along the way, some hucksters see marketing potential, as mentioned in a PP, and exploit it, either intentionally and cynically, or out of self-deluded self-interest. Their fans and acolytes (lesser hucksters) spread the faith. (Hucksterism is MLM, sometimes literally, sometimes metaphorically.)
Finally, we and our friends see the hucksters' books/links/videos, and read the news articles, then create Facebook memes, have conversations, etc., that even further dilute the scant remaining underlying facts and logic. The ideas will spread faster if they come with an attractive aura of "it's not my fault, here's who's to blame", "it's a conspiracy by big-money exploiters" and "if I don't succeed, it's because I'm a powerless cog in the evil plot".
And there you have "sugar makes you fat", and lots of other similar nonsense.
P.S. I eat relatively little added sugar either, and ate almost none while losing weight. But I don't have a sugar gram limit, or even think much about sugar. (In my MFP diary, I swapped out the sugar column, and track fiber instead.) I prefer to focus on getting enough protein, enough healthy fats, plenty of veggies & fruit, all within my calorie goal, while eating things I personally find tasty and satiating.5 -
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Because there is a lot of fearmongering and a lot of uneducated people who don't understand (or choose to ignore) basic concepts of nutrition and/or basic physiology. Including many who consider themselves scientists/researchers (Fung, Taubes, Lustig, Mercola, etc.)....So why is everyone telling us that sugar is so bad and to stay away from it? I hear this all the time from co workers, family members etc... And even a crap load of websites saying how bad it is...
Nothing wrong with that, if that's what works for you....You've all made you point but I'm still keeping my sugar intake at 50 grams daily...
Nobody was advocating that you or anybody else should go out and eat a ton of sugar. The point being made (and correctly so) is that excess sugar/carbs don't make you gain weight - excess calories do. With that said, it's a good idea to eat a balanced, nutritious diet, for a lot of reasons (as many have already said in this thread and a thousand countless others like it)....Having this debate will not make me go out a eat a ton of sugar now...
If somebody's diet includes a lot of calorie-dense sugary foods, cutting back on them can certainly be an effective way to reduce calories (as long as they don't overcompensate elsewhere). If somebody drinks 3 cans of soda per day, substituting diet soda, iced tea, water or any other calorie-free drink immediately cuts 450 calories from their daily intake. If you eat 2 eggs, a slice of whole wheat toast and a cup of coffee for breakfast in the morning instead of that giant cinnamon bun and a big glass of orange juice, you've cut 400-500 calories right there. Those two changes alone could make a difference of almost 1000 calories per day. If you eat an apple for an afternoon snack instead of a Snickers bar, there goes another ~250 calorie reduction. If somebody made those three changes in their diet and suddenly started losing weight, it's not because they cut out sugar. It's because they just cut 1250 calories from their daily intake.
Of course it wasn't included. Funny how facts get omitted when fearmongerers cherry-pick studies in an attempt to prove their points....The studies I found must be kids or adults exceeding their calories on a daily basis. That was one thing not included in these studies is how many calories they were having.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
He'll be back soon enough. He always reappears2 -
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Muscleflex79 wrote: »CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »If you consume more calories than you burn, you'll gain weight. If you consume fewer than you burn, you'll lose weight. "Good" or "bad" has nothing to do with it, but you're correct they they aren't the enemy. It's just that you do have to pay attention to them whether you're looking to gain or lose weight.
The challenge with that is genetics. Good and bad have quite a bit to do with it, depending on how your body reacts to certain foods. Even if you eat at a deficit, some people are not able to lose weight.
My point is, if you see something that you really want to eat, than eat it. And yes, pay attention to what you want to enjoy, and then you can always enjoy a "healthier" option later.
who exactly are these people that do not lose weight in a calorie deficit??
Unicorns.4 -
CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »My apologies @Iamnotasenior and @cmriverside . What I should have said is that certain individuals are genetically susceptible to being obese through a number of causes. Eating is only one of these.
I'm not even sure how it got to this point, because this was never a part of my original post.
I would argue that this is a small percentage of the population, some people may be genetically predisposed to storing fat, but at the end of the day it is still a matter of creating a deficit.0 -
Lots of well read folk in this thread. I'm interested to know more about the effects of consuming different energy sources at different times of day. For example, I assume it is bad to eat a pile of carbs then go to bed. Or even just to consume most of your daily calories then go to sleep sort of thing. But I don't know the specifics of these things and have yet to find information that makes it abundantly clear.3
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Lots of well read folk in this thread. I'm interested to know more about the effects of consuming different energy sources at different times of day. For example, I assume it is bad to eat a pile of carbs then go to bed. Or even just to consume most of your daily calories then go to sleep sort of thing. But I don't know the specifics of these things and have yet to find information that makes it abundantly clear.
Eat what you want when you feel like it. Makes no difference.
When I eat too many carbs too close to bedtime I have too much energy to go to sleep, but for weight loss it doesn't matter when you eat your various macros.4 -
Lots of well read folk in this thread. I'm interested to know more about the effects of consuming different energy sources at different times of day. For example, I assume it is bad to eat a pile of carbs then go to bed. Or even just to consume most of your daily calories then go to sleep sort of thing. But I don't know the specifics of these things and have yet to find information that makes it abundantly clear.
Start here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9040548
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/214751370 -
Lots of well read folk in this thread. I'm interested to know more about the effects of consuming different energy sources at different times of day. For example, I assume it is bad to eat a pile of carbs then go to bed. Or even just to consume most of your daily calories then go to sleep sort of thing. But I don't know the specifics of these things and have yet to find information that makes it abundantly clear.
Unless you are an Olympic level athlete trying to get that last .01% of results, neither meal timing, meal make-up nor meal frequency has any significant effect on weight loss. The number of meals that you eat and the particular macro combinations of those meals are simply a matter of personal preference - i.e. do what works for you and helps you to reach your goals.5 -
This is the MFP I've missed these last couple of years
Hilarious!
"Correct me if I'm wrong..."
Don't mind if we do.
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"The effects" upon what?Lots of well read folk in this thread. I'm interested to know more about the effects of consuming different energy sources at different times of day. For example, I assume it is bad to eat a pile of carbs then go to bed. Or even just to consume most of your daily calories then go to sleep sort of thing. But I don't know the specifics of these things and have yet to find information that makes it abundantly clear.
For weight loss, nutrient/meal timing is irrelevant. Adherence is much more important to success, so eat in whatever pattern makes it easiest for you to stick to your calorie goal.
For workout performance, it's personal preference. Some like to train fasted, some prefer a light meal beforehand. It won't make any significant difference in fat loss, but it could help you feel/perform better during your workouts.
For muscle gain, there's some evidence that timing of protein intake could make a slight difference in hypertrophy results, but it's splitting hairs for most people and overall protein intake throughout the day matters much more.
Might be a good time to add Alan Aragon's graphic in. And to address an issue that's sometimes asked - if you have to ask if you're considered "advanced", you're not "advanced". In the context below, "advanced" is referring to athletes at high levels of performance who are near their genetic potential and striving for every last tiny percentage of improvement:
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Thanks for the replies all.. And interesting read on those links. One last question on topic. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day has been a common theme I've heard all my life. Is it a thing? or just marketing? Is there actual value to stoking the furnace in the morning? Will it make my first workout of the day easier and will it have a positive impact on my metabolic rate as I've seen suggested?0
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Thanks for the replies all.. And interesting read on those links. One last question on topic. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day has been a common theme I've heard all my life. Is it a thing? or just marketing? Is there actual value to stoking the furnace in the morning? Will it make my first workout of the day easier and will it have a positive impact on my metabolic rate as I've seen suggested?
Personal preference. Some people do really well with breakfast and others want to gnaw their own arm off after eating it. There's no advantage to weight loss that's worth worrying about. Some people might need it for health reasons (blood sugars, diabetics, people who need to take medications with food, etc) but most people can eat it or not as they please.3
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