Big OverFeed Ruins Everything? Nope.

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Replies

  • LivingtheLeanDream
    LivingtheLeanDream Posts: 13,342 Member
    edited November 2019
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    . I'm encouraging "let it go, keep going, see what happens in a week or so, don't do it often", instead.

    I totally agree with this^^

    I have book marked this thread because its a good one. I just was wanting to say it didn't seem to work that way with me - I am a long term maintainer (didn't have to lose a massive amount, 20lbs got me to a healthy weight). But there probably is something different about over eating a bit for several days rather than in one day, probably the way the body expels the extra energy when its taken in quickly. I'm not knowledgeable in science but there probably is an explanation.

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Ruth
  • beulah81
    beulah81 Posts: 168 Member
    edited April 2020
    Bump.
  • pink_mint
    pink_mint Posts: 103 Member
    Thank you for bumping this! I love seeing this.

    I am wondering when is a good time to start allowing or including refeed/ taking a break from calorie deficit days. I'm 2 months into my weight loss, and haven't lost enough weight yet (6 lbs so far) to where I'd feel confident doing this. But I'm wondering if it would be helpful.

    As I understand it going a little off the rails with eating one day can help mentally (not feel so restricted all the dang time) and physiologically even bump your weight loss rate up a little. I'm just still so uncomfortable with my current weight/ appearance/ size and it's so slow going that it feels risky to do anything other than keep at that deficit every day until more significant weight loss is achieved.

    Just wondering at what point others have Incorporated this (did you wait until you lost a certain amount?) and how often.
  • Unicorn_Bacon
    Unicorn_Bacon Posts: 491 Member
    edited April 2020
    @pink_mint I think the main point of this post is more geared towards people eating really well and then finding themselves at a party and eating a ton of sweets and food, having buyers remorse and thinking they ruined all their progress made.

    The OP is basically showing how she spent a week, somewhat tracking calories to the best of her ability, even went thousands of calories over on 2 days, and by the end, when she returned to normal, she was still in the same place she was when she started. She didnt ruin anything.

    Eating out once in a while can be doable with careful planning, and it can be done without ruining your deficit. You dont need to be a certain rate of success before you do this, but you need to be able to handle the water weight fluctuations that come with it and knowledge that you're fine.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    pink_mint wrote: »
    Thank you for bumping this! I love seeing this.

    I am wondering when is a good time to start allowing or including refeed/ taking a break from calorie deficit days. I'm 2 months into my weight loss, and haven't lost enough weight yet (6 lbs so far) to where I'd feel confident doing this. But I'm wondering if it would be helpful.

    As I understand it going a little off the rails with eating one day can help mentally (not feel so restricted all the dang time) and physiologically even bump your weight loss rate up a little. I'm just still so uncomfortable with my current weight/ appearance/ size and it's so slow going that it feels risky to do anything other than keep at that deficit every day until more significant weight loss is achieved.

    Just wondering at what point others have Incorporated this (did you wait until you lost a certain amount?) and how often.

    Have you read the refeeds & diet breaks thread?

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1

    I think that may be more helpful with your questions than this thread is . . . and more helpful than I personally can be. I never took a diet break per se, because I never felt particularly stressed nor did I plateau while losing. (I'm the OP of this thread, in case it isn't obvious. :) ) If you don't find what you're looking for in that thread, I'd suggest asking your question there.

    I'm just a self-indulgent kind of person who occasionally likes to take a trip and eat freely, or eat something mega-special calorie dense at a restaurant, sometimes . . . and that sometimes puts me way over maintenance calories, as in the case reported. These are not diet breaks in the usual sense, nor are they "OMG I can't control myself" events, for me . . . they're just choices. I'm a sybaritic, hedonistic kind of person, which means I'm happiest with eating strategies that allow for that, within certain bounds, sometimes. (My bounds = maintaining a healthy body weight long term. I'm in year 4+ of maintenance, at BMI 21-point-something this morning, so it seems to be working. It might or might not work for others, with different personalities.)

    As @KrissCanDoThis said, the point of my OP was to try to reassure people (of any personality type ;) ), that if they eat a large number of calories on a rare day or two, it isn't going to be as big a weight problem as they may emotionally feel it is, or as big a problem as the scale may suggest in the first day or two after it happens. They won't "wipe out all their progress".

    Best wishes!
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    pink_mint wrote: »
    Thank you for bumping this! I love seeing this.

    I am wondering when is a good time to start allowing or including refeed/ taking a break from calorie deficit days. I'm 2 months into my weight loss, and haven't lost enough weight yet (6 lbs so far) to where I'd feel confident doing this. But I'm wondering if it would be helpful.

    As I understand it going a little off the rails with eating one day can help mentally (not feel so restricted all the dang time) and physiologically even bump your weight loss rate up a little. I'm just still so uncomfortable with my current weight/ appearance/ size and it's so slow going that it feels risky to do anything other than keep at that deficit every day until more significant weight loss is achieved.

    Just wondering at what point others have Incorporated this (did you wait until you lost a certain amount?) and how often.

    There are two ways for me to answer this. I slipped up several times in the first couple of months and ate too much. By design I waited 6 months and then took a diet/deficit break.

    It helped that my plan was to bank enough calories each week to have a maintenance day every weekend. It always helped knowing it would never be very long before I got extra fun food. I could have had the fun food throughout the week with the same calories but I tend to find it more satisfying in big installments.
  • pink_mint
    pink_mint Posts: 103 Member
    Ok I see 😊

    Less of a strategic thing and more of a spontaneous thing. But of course people do it strategically too, per the other thread. Either way it's always good to be reminded that freaking out isn't helpful and nor is this idea of perfection.

    @AnnPT77 that sounds like a very doable and enjoyable way to go about things. Gives me encouragement!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    Updating to cross-link a related-topic post from @steveko89.

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10672255/examination-of-outlying-scale-fluctuation#latest

    (Thought I'd cross-linked it before, but re-reading the thread shows that that thought was optimistic 😉🙄.
  • biancamuyis
    biancamuyis Posts: 5 Member
    Bump, great thread!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    For fans of this line of thinking, see also: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10844569/what-happens-when-you-have-a-bad-day-go-over-your-calories/p1
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    Another recent post with a similar theme:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10893552/after-vacation-break-weekly-weigh-in-pleasantly-surprised/p1
  • Janellew86
    Janellew86 Posts: 43 Member
    I overate big time on my calories today, but less than a pound gained... ;) Happy Turkey Day to all my US members.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    Popular media coverage of diet and health usually makes me eye-roll or cringe. (Reporters seem to fall for trendy nonsense as often as the rest of us do!)

    But someone posted a link on another thread that I thought had some nuggets of goodness in it, even though I did read it with low expectations.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doctors-reveal-damage-thanksgiving-food_l_653aba36e4b01b411813a2d9

    Basic summary: People with certain major pre-existing health conditions may experience negative consequences from just one big meal, and eating differently from one's routine can cause various types of digestive distress. Short of that, one unusual indulgent meal on its own, in a context of overall healthy eating, is unlikely to have significant health, metabolic, or body weight consequences. The doctors interviewed are more specific.
  • dydn11402
    dydn11402 Posts: 103 Member
    If i overeat for say, 2 days, I will gain 4 lbs. 1 will come off over the next day or 2 and then the rest is here to stay despite getting back on track with a calorie deficit. Very depressing. Every lb has be be clawed off, always.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    An awesome thread.
    I'm wondering if there are any peer-reviewed studies which explore how one might create some type of "resilience" with regards to withstanding the occasional deviation from the recommended caloric intake. I have often wondered if the body becomes complacent with low caloric intake and slows down (metaphorically speaking). Could it be the case that a caloric spike might activate the more rigorous digestive machinery and help with the longer term weight loss process? Thank you in advance for your thoughts and expertise.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    An awesome thread.
    I'm wondering if there are any peer-reviewed studies which explore how one might create some type of "resilience" with regards to withstanding the occasional deviation from the recommended caloric intake. I have often wondered if the body becomes complacent with low caloric intake and slows down (metaphorically speaking). Could it be the case that a caloric spike might activate the more rigorous digestive machinery and help with the longer term weight loss process? Thank you in advance for your thoughts and expertise.

    Not sure how much you're asking about psychological effects vs. physical ones.

    I can't think of anything about that "resilience" idea.

    With respect to the other part, I think you might find some good info in these threads, including links to other resources:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1

    That's about the flip side, i.e., the slowing down part, but it has implications for the spiking idea.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1

    That's more about avoiding the slowing, or encouraging the spiking.

    All of the above only if I'm understanding your question correctly, though, @shel80kg.

    The full article is paywalled, the link is just the abstract, but I do think this next one speaks somewhat to the individual side of resilience and long term effects:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1106561?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub 0pubmed

    . . . but that's maybe a digression from the main point of this thread, and creeps over into this other one:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Hi Ann*

    I am guessing you tend to explain a significant dimension of weight management challenges as a function of psychological conditions, pathologies and learned responses. Although I do not disagree in a general sense, please consider that there can (and is quite likely) metabolic realities which may make weight gain more or less likely. I grow a bit weary with presuming that each body operates similarly and my previous question to this forum was rather specific. If one alters food quantity from low to high does the body benefit from this type of intentional fluctuation with reference to increasing or decreasing metabolic rate. I agree that my term "resilience" was ambiguous. My apologies. I was wondering if inconsistent food consumption can be one factor in creating a more sensitive and responsive metabolic process that may work in favour of legitimate and safe weight loss.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    edited November 2023
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Hi Ann*

    I am guessing you tend to explain a significant dimension of weight management challenges as a function of psychological conditions, pathologies and learned responses. Although I do not disagree in a general sense, please consider that there can (and is quite likely) metabolic realities which may make weight gain more or less likely. I grow a bit weary with presuming that each body operates similarly and my previous question to this forum was rather specific. If one alters food quantity from low to high does the body benefit from this type of intentional fluctuation with reference to increasing or decreasing metabolic rate. I agree that my term "resilience" was ambiguous. My apologies. I was wondering if inconsistent food consumption can be one factor in creating a more sensitive and responsive metabolic process that may work in favour of legitimate and safe weight loss.

    I do think genetic factors make weight gain more or less likely, and do think that personal history can result in metabolic adaptations that make weight gain/loss more or less difficult or easy. I don't think all bodies operate identically, either out of the gate (genetically) or down the road (after varying personal histories).

    Also, recall my comment to you on another thread that I don't see the mind and body as separate, i.e., I think that at least some "psychological" things are physical (and vice versa). Learning or knowledge also affect physical responses. See, for example, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21574706/ or https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-018-0483-4.)

    If I'm understanding your question correctly, I think the "starvation mode" and "diet breaks" threads discuss ways in which food consumption history affects metabolic factors which in turn affect the difficulty or ease of subsequent weight loss. Both of those refer to some fairly scientific sources of information to support that discussion, IIRC. That is why I suggested you might want to read them. Have you done?

    I absolutely believe that human bodies are dynamic, i.e., that calorie intake affects calorie expenditure. That's part of the reason, I believe, that "a big overfeed doesn't ruin everything".

    Because the threads I linked discuss physical ("metabolic") responses to changes in calorie intake, and how those changes relate to weight loss, I don't particularly want to try to summarize that material inexpertly here. I think it does bear on your question.

    Generally, though, I think that these issues - while very interesting and worthy of discussion - are somewhat tangent to this thread.

  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Hi Again,
    Apologies if I took your threat in a different direction. I did read the articles you were so kind to advise me of and they were helpful.
    The tendency for many of us "frequent flyers" in the weight management world to fall off the wagon and see how far we can deviate from the plan requires more research in my opinion. Perhaps the desire to know the consequences and reassure ourselves that we can get back on the horse with only a few scars gives us hope and perspective.

    I think there may well be an arrant child in me that keeps the narrative alive; reminding me that I should be able to eat whatever I like whenever I like. I am not angry at this "inner-child" and have decided that he gets an occasional trip to the ice-cream shop. But....he is not in charge. I am. And so far so good.

    Thanks again for the great thread and your intelligent responses.

    Shel
  • BCLadybug888
    BCLadybug888 Posts: 1,767 Member
    Bump for the season of feasting lol!
    Good reminder that you can't undo all your progress with one or 2 days of indulging, and that the scale WILL most likely jump, but as long as you return to normal levels of eating - it will also return to where you started, or darn close.

    Cheers! And Merry Christmas 🎅
  • SafariGalNYC
    SafariGalNYC Posts: 1,579 Member
    BCLadybug888 wrote: »
    Bump for the season of feasting lol!
    Good reminder that you can't undo all your progress with one or 2 days of indulging, and that the scale WILL most likely jump, but as long as you return to normal levels of eating - it will also return to where you started, or darn close.

    Cheers! And Merry Christmas 🎅

    @BCLadybug888 - one doesn’t have to binge to celebrate the holidays either!
  • BCLadybug888
    BCLadybug888 Posts: 1,767 Member
    SafariGalNYC wrote: »
    BCLadybug888 wrote: »
    Bump for the season of feasting lol!
    Good reminder that you can't undo all your progress with one or 2 days of indulging, and that the scale WILL most likely jump, but as long as you return to normal levels of eating - it will also return to where you started, or darn close.

    Cheers! And Merry Christmas 🎅

    @BCLadybug888 - one doesn’t have to binge to celebrate the holidays either!

    Of course not...but there are many traditions that centre around food and drink that are special to this season and I wouldn't want anyone to beat themselves up if they don't deprive themselves of those traditions. By all means partake, all the while trying to be at least a little discriminating, and as OP mentioned in another thread - try not to get to uncomfortable stuffed-ness 😝

    There is a wide enjoyable margin between eating at a deficit and uncontrolled bingeing...at least for most.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    Speaking as the OP here, my main point was not to encourage people to overeat wildly - call it "binge" if you will - on holidays or at any other time.

    The main point was to try to counter-balance a very common type of post we've seen here, where a person's plan didn't work as intended, and they think they've destroyed all progress in one day, or a few days. Some even decide they've failed so they might as well give up, temporarily or permanently.

    One unusual day doesn't totally make or break progress. It's a drop in the ocean. The ocean is regular daily habits we have on repeat. Many of us are trying to make plans that will work for us long term. Some mild indulgence on a literal handful of holidays per year is not The Big Deal. We may even want to have a few days a year - holidays or any other occasion - where we indulge a bit because really good food is part of a celebration.

    The scale jump on the day after isn't entirely fat regain . . . though some people who've posted with these "I failed" messages think it is. Most likely, only a tiny fraction - if any - is fat regain, once the weight trend plays out.

    Instead of "I failed", IMO the better reaction is to think whether the overage was worth it or not - recognizing that it will delay reaching goal weight a very small amount of time, or require rebalancing at some point if in maintenance. Then, sensibly adjust the plan as needed to accommodate that decision, get back on one's regular healthy routine, and don't catastrophize about it.

    The "I ruined everything" mindset can even lead some to just wallow in holiday food for days, because progress is destroyed anyway: "I'll start over in January", say . . . and maybe January never quite happens that way.

    If over goal, if over maintenance, just log it, adjust the plans for the future to be more realistic if necessary, go back to a healthy routine ASAP. The scale will sort itself out in a week or few, as long as an exception is treated as an exception and stays truly rare, pretty much.

  • Corina1143
    Corina1143 Posts: 3,832 Member
    I'm so lucky! For me, I've had the cake and pie. But nearly every every get-together, someone will bring a new salad or vegetable dish they found a recipe for that advertised " finally! A healthy dish your family will love for the holidays ". I'm the one who tries it, and sometimes likes it. Sometimes I even get to take home all the leftovers cause I'm the only one who liked it. Lol. Good for me!
    Unfortunately, I tend to overeat the meat, potatoes and gravy, too.
  • SafariGalNYC
    SafariGalNYC Posts: 1,579 Member
    Corina1143 wrote: »
    I'm so lucky! For me, I've had the cake and pie. But nearly every every get-together, someone will bring a new salad or vegetable dish they found a recipe for that advertised " finally! A healthy dish your family will love for the holidays ". I'm the one who tries it, and sometimes likes it. Sometimes I even get to take home all the leftovers cause I'm the only one who liked it. Lol. Good for me!
    Unfortunately, I tend to overeat the meat, potatoes and gravy, too.

    Great perspective @Corina1143 !

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