Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
-
Huh, look at that, I'm at 12 weeks today, so got through 11 weeks (with relative ease, I might add). I think my resolve has only slipped because we messed with my HRT dosing to see if it would help fatigue in the first half of my cycle. Bad idea. Bad, bad idea.5
-
Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
The damn virus is overtaking/going to overtake way too much...
Coming back to the pink book, in which I believe (cause I do), what does it say about length of break at the 12 to 16 week mark?
0 -
@PAV8888
I started at 375 lbs in January 2017 and lost right over 100 lbs that year. I had stalled out by December 2017, and then slowly regained that 25 lbs over the next 18 months. Its like whatever switch kicked on slowly switched back off, coupled with moving and remodeling at the end of 2017 and being back home near the family. And I began slacking on weighing and measuring, estimating things, letting myself slip back into getting half cut teas, a little here, a little there, and just over all not being able to stick to my deficit for that 18 month period. Or thinking I was in deficit but being sloppy in weighing and measuring and thus wasn't really.
I finally was able to get myself to losing again, but that 6 month period at the end of 2019 was a battle. Then for no reason I can discern, at the beginning of 2020, the battle eased and I've been able to stick to my ~1000 calorie deficit with little trouble for the last 3 months. I can't figure out what kicks that switch on and off at all.
So I am currently sitting at 259.8 lbs. I'm 5'8" with a definitely larger frame, and BMI charts say the upper end of my healthy weight range is around 160 lbs. I don't expect to actually lose the next 100 lbs, but my pipe dream would be to get at least 80 of it off and be decently below 200 lbs. I'm currently set at 1450 calories as my deficit, which is roughly 60 calories more than what MFP says I should be at for 2 lbs/wk. I've added in activity, trying to get at least a 30 minute walk daily and get over 5,000 steps in, but I'm still setting myself at sedentary because a large chunk of that 5,000 steps is the actual walk itself. I add back in about 1/4 - 1/3 of those calories. I know that I've hit the bottom of how many calories I can actually cut and stay satiated - I'm not going to be able to drop below 1400, which is why I've started adding in the activity, even if its just walking; that buys me a few more calories per day, especially as I lose and the deficit shrinks.
Right now, I'm tolerating the deficit and activity increase fine. I'm on a roll when it comes to the self control; I'm not having cravings, and even when I find myself wanting something, I can either successfully tell myself no (such as a half cut tea over a unsweet one) or I successfully moderate the portion size or adapt it to lower the calories (taking the top bun and the cheese off the turkey slider at Arby's). I've been able to successfully stay under my deficit or deficit + exercise calories just about every day of the last 3 months. My energy levels are what they've always been, and I've been tolerating the increased activity well.
Yup, I'm down 115 lbs from my highest weight, which is about 10 lbs lower than the lowest I hit before I started gaining again. No, I haven't had any refeed days since Christmas.
Everything I've read has seemed to indicate that I"m still in the range for the 2 lbs/week rate to be safe (I thought it was no more than 1% of your body weight to be safe), so I hadn't considered changing that yet. I had considered just doing maintenance + activity during the vacation period (I'll be doing a lot of hiking that week), but was concerned that going another 2 months would be too long before taking a break.
This weekend is actually a very good set up for doing a refeed - my birthday is Sunday and mom's planning a dinner on Saturday
To get this straight - a refeed is just eating at maintenance for 1 to 2 days, right? As opposed to the diet break which is maintenance for 1 to 2 weeks?
I wasn't really looking at the diet break as something to test for maintenance but more for the hormonal benefits that the post at the beginning of this thread stated. I've never done diet breaks in the past, and I've wondered if that might be part of the reason why I tended to stall out. I lost 90 lbs in about 8 months in 2012, then stalled and regained most of that over the next 4 years. I then lost a little over 100 lbs in 2017, stalled after about 8 months, and slowly regained 30 lbs. Better results, definitely, but I'd like to figure out what keeps flipping that switch to off and looking for ways to stop that or at least extend the loss periods.
At the same time, I admit I'm a little afraid to eat at maintenance for a week or two because I'm very much afraid I wouldn't be able to go back into deficit at the end - I'm of a if its working don't mess with it mentality. However, I'd also like to try to avoid the mistakes of the past and do this better this time around.
3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
The damn virus is overtaking/going to overtake way too much...
Coming back to the pink book, in which I believe (cause I do), what does it say about length of break at the 12 to 16 week mark?
Well I'm at work now (we can still do that here in NZ), and the Big Pink Book is at home, but from memory it's still the usual 1 to 2 weeks. Break length always stays the same (obviously you can do longer if you wish), it's frequency that increases with leanness.0 -
Ah, OK. My bad. I was thinking of the break as more extensive!
So re-feeds are one or two day events of eating at maintenance with carbs prioritized to get the most benefit.
I would often take the opportunity to engage in a re-feed when eating out with friends or in conjunction with various social events. I would not necessarily take the opportunity of prioritizing healthy carbs like potatoes like I should have
Diet breaks are maintenance breaks, eating normally and at maintenance. If we are talking 1 or 2 weeks then that would make them dove-tail nicely with a pre-defined event, or time period.
While I didn't plan for them, my frequent visits to and by my out of town parents created them for me! In fact, now that I think about it, they were 3 or 4 of them each year so easily in the 12 to 16 week time period as they tended to be 10-12 days in length, except for the Sept/Oct one which tended to be 21 to 28 days.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
The damn virus is overtaking/going to overtake way too much...
Coming back to the pink book, in which I believe (cause I do), what does it say about length of break at the 12 to 16 week mark?
Well I'm at work now (we can still do that here in NZ), and the Big Pink Book is at home, but from memory it's still the usual 1 to 2 weeks. Break length always stays the same (obviously you can do longer if you wish), it's frequency that increases with leanness.
Interesting. I was under the impression there was no standard recommendation for people who were still a distance from goal. Do you remember if it specified why there is a need other than the mental aspect?
I took mine every 6 months and I remember being told it was unnecessary for physical benefits. I did it anyway because it seemed prudent.1 -
Ah, OK. My bad. I was thinking of the break as more extensive!
So re-feeds are one or two day events of eating at maintenance with carbs prioritized to get the most benefit.
I would often take the opportunity to engage in a re-feed when eating out with friends or in conjunction with various social events. I would not necessarily take the opportunity of prioritizing healthy carbs like potatoes like I should have
Diet breaks are maintenance breaks, eating normally and at maintenance. If we are talking 1 or 2 weeks then that would make them dove-tail nicely with a pre-defined event, or time period.
While I didn't plan for them, my frequent visits to and by my out of town parents created them for me! In fact, now that I think about it, they were 3 or 4 of them each year so easily in the 12 to 16 week time period as they tended to be 10-12 days in length, except for the Sept/Oct one which tended to be 21 to 28 days.
Ah, but that wouldn't actually follow the 'rules' of a re-feed. Very specifically, cals at maintenance, prioritising complex carbs, and keeping fats at normal level or possibly lower. Re-feeds are all about the carbs. And two days to get the hormonal benefits, one day does nothing (this is all in the video, btw). Of course if you just want a mental benefit, or to boost glycogen a bit, then a one day re-feed is fine.Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
The damn virus is overtaking/going to overtake way too much...
Coming back to the pink book, in which I believe (cause I do), what does it say about length of break at the 12 to 16 week mark?
Well I'm at work now (we can still do that here in NZ), and the Big Pink Book is at home, but from memory it's still the usual 1 to 2 weeks. Break length always stays the same (obviously you can do longer if you wish), it's frequency that increases with leanness.
Interesting. I was under the impression there was no standard recommendation for people who were still a distance from goal. Do you remember if it specified why there is a need other than the mental aspect?
I took mine every 6 months and I remember being told it was unnecessary for physical benefits. I did it anyway because it seemed prudent.
They are certainly less necessary, physiologically. I will check the Big Pink Book when I get home. Unless I can Beetlejuice @anubis609 in here...4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
Also, we need to start chatting in here before that damn virus thread overtakes our post count!!
On that note, I'd been intending a diet break for somewhere in that 12-16 week range, but have inadvertently kinda found myself on one this week. Oops. And with less than stellar food choices nutritionally to boot. I figure I'll smarten up my act on the nutrition, do another couple of days at maintenance so I can call it a full diet break, then crack down again. I have a house full of nutritious food, so no excuse!
so I was remembering correctly! Though what is a Cat 3 dieter? (I don't have a big pink book)
And I'm trying to get more posting here! lol
I was thinking instead of going straight up 1,000 calories when I do take a break, to up it 500 calories the 1st week, then maintenance for the next week, then back down 500 and then back down to the full 1,000. Would that be enough? Or should I really be doing 2 weeks at maintenance?
and if I took a small break this weekend for the re-feed (I'm already at 50% carbs a day, so would I really need to add even more?), then would it still be advisable to stay in the 16 week range, or could I push it another 4 weeks? Though looking at the calendar, 12 weeks is next weekend, so if I started the 500 calorie deficit the 26th, then the maintenance week would start the 9th and cover Easter Sunday.
I had wanted to be down to 250 before I took a break and hoped I could have it before that vacation at the end of May, but perhaps taking it now at 260 will help in the long run?0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »The Big Pink Book says every 12 to 16 weeks for Cat 3 dieters.
Also, we need to start chatting in here before that damn virus thread overtakes our post count!!
On that note, I'd been intending a diet break for somewhere in that 12-16 week range, but have inadvertently kinda found myself on one this week. Oops. And with less than stellar food choices nutritionally to boot. I figure I'll smarten up my act on the nutrition, do another couple of days at maintenance so I can call it a full diet break, then crack down again. I have a house full of nutritious food, so no excuse!
so I was remembering correctly! Though what is a Cat 3 dieter? (I don't have a big pink book)
And I'm trying to get more posting here! lol
I was thinking instead of going straight up 1,000 calories when I do take a break, to up it 500 calories the 1st week, then maintenance for the next week, then back down 500 and then back down to the full 1,000. Would that be enough? Or should I really be doing 2 weeks at maintenance?
and if I took a small break this weekend for the re-feed (I'm already at 50% carbs a day, so would I really need to add even more?), then would it still be advisable to stay in the 16 week range, or could I push it another 4 weeks? Though looking at the calendar, 12 weeks is next weekend, so if I started the 500 calorie deficit the 26th, then the maintenance week would start the 9th and cover Easter Sunday.
I had wanted to be down to 250 before I took a break and hoped I could have it before that vacation at the end of May, but perhaps taking it now at 260 will help in the long run?
Categories are based on body fat percentage, can't remember the actual cut off between 2 and 3 (Cat 1 is 24% or below, for women), but based on your weight, you're a Cat 3.
You need to be at maintenance cals for at least a week to get the hormonal benefits, so yes, doing it that was would be fine if it's psychologically easier for you. Longer at maintenance is better, but it's up to you.
I checked my diary for when I was doing re-feeds, I was aiming to hit 300g a day, which was ~50% cals for me. Protein worked out to 30%, fats to 20%, though all of them were actually based on grams per lb of ideal weight. It's all in the video, from memory.2 -
@bmeadows380
Remember that banking calories is still an option during a break too in case you want to have a couple of really big food days.
There is another benefit of a diet/deficit break that helped me mentally. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. After the midpoint it became almost a chore to complete. All I really ever wanted was a couple of big food days and then I was ready to get back to it. This has helped reinforce my overall change.
To do this though I had to learn to be picky. As a rule I make my food earn its calories but I do this even more when I decide to eat over my normal goal. An example was a an experience last year with a funnel cake. I had not had one in years. I was really looking forward to it but it wasn't that good so I stopped eating it. I have done something similar with several other foods. I consider the number of calories in the item in front of me then after a couple of bites I ask if it is worth it before continuing. It irritates me now that past me would eat room temp french fries and burgers that had been sitting around too long. I had to lose weight I gained from high calorie food I didn't fully enjoy.
My maintenance days have done wonders in changing my perceptions. I am not sure if I outgrew some of this food a long time ago and just ate it out of habit/convenience, my new way of eating has changed what I think is good, or, more likely, a combination of both.6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Categories are based on body fat percentage, can't remember the actual cut off between 2 and 3 (Cat 1 is 24% or below, for women), but based on your weight, you're a Cat 3.
You need to be at maintenance cals for at least a week to get the hormonal benefits, so yes, doing it that was would be fine if it's psychologically easier for you. Longer at maintenance is better, but it's up to you.
I checked my diary for when I was doing re-feeds, I was aiming to hit 300g a day, which was ~50% cals for me. Protein worked out to 30%, fats to 20%, though all of them were actually based on grams per lb of ideal weight. It's all in the video, from memory.
I've only just started adding activity and that's all cardio, so my body fat % is definitely still higher. I'd like to start weights but can't afford both a gym membership and the jiu-jitsu class, so I'm sticking with the jiu-jitsu for now. I don't like weight machines and I really want to start out with a trainer when I can afford it because I want to make sure I've got the forms right and I'm doing it right, and I can't tell that from a video on Youtube.
I've found that I just naturally eat a low fat diet anyway. My macros are currently set to 40%C and 30%P and 30%F, but while I focus on getting the protein in, I'm routinely eating more like 45%C and 25%F; it definitely wouldn't be hard to get the fat even lower. (That's the big reason I already know not to even bother trying low carb or keto!)@bmeadows380
Remember that banking calories is still an option during a break too in case you want to have a couple of really big food days.
There is another benefit of a diet/deficit break that helped me mentally. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. After the midpoint it became almost a chore to complete. All I really ever wanted was a couple of big food days and then I was ready to get back to it. This has helped reinforce my overall change.
To do this though I had to learn to be picky. As a rule I make my food earn its calories but I do this even more when I decide to eat over my normal goal. An example was a an experience last year with a funnel cake. I had not had one in years. I was really looking forward to it but it wasn't that good so I stopped eating it. I have done something similar with several other foods. I consider the number of calories in the item in front of me then after a couple of bites I ask if it is worth it before continuing. It irritates me now that past me would eat room temp french fries and burgers that had been sitting around too long. I had to lose weight I gained from high calorie food I didn't fully enjoy.
My maintenance days have done wonders in changing my perceptions. I am not sure if I outgrew some of this food a long time ago and just ate it out of habit/convenience, my new way of eating has changed what I think is good, or, more likely, a combination of both.
I have found it interesting that things that used to catch my attention I no longer pay much attention to. Like donuts, for instance. If someone brought in donuts, I'd be eating at least 1 or 2, especially the filled ones. Now, I barely glance at them if someone has brought them in or when walking past a display case in the grocery store, and I don't really enjoy them when I do eat one because it tastes really artificial to me. I only crave french fries once in a while, but found that just that tiny kid's size that comes in a happy meal is plenty to satisfy that craving.
I really wish that were true for the half-cut teas.......
Thanks for all the input! I think I really will give the re-feed idea a go this weekend (that'll mean I won't have to skip breakfast to be able to eat dinner and birthday cake! And I can up the carbs easily by just adding in some homemade bread), and may still push a full diet break out to May, since I'm doing well at the moment.3 -
@bmeadows380
Remember that banking calories is still an option during a break too in case you want to have a couple of really big food days.
There is another benefit of a diet/deficit break that helped me mentally. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. After the midpoint it became almost a chore to complete. All I really ever wanted was a couple of big food days and then I was ready to get back to it. This has helped reinforce my overall change.
To do this though I had to learn to be picky. As a rule I make my food earn its calories but I do this even more when I decide to eat over my normal goal. An example was a an experience last year with a funnel cake. I had not had one in years. I was really looking forward to it but it wasn't that good so I stopped eating it. I have done something similar with several other foods. I consider the number of calories in the item in front of me then after a couple of bites I ask if it is worth it before continuing. It irritates me now that past me would eat room temp french fries and burgers that had been sitting around too long. I had to lose weight I gained from high calorie food I didn't fully enjoy.
My maintenance days have done wonders in changing my perceptions. I am not sure if I outgrew some of this food a long time ago and just ate it out of habit/convenience, my new way of eating has changed what I think is good, or, more likely, a combination of both.
For the hormonal benefits, no, not really. You need to be at, or close, to maintenance every day. Leptin levels tank very quickly at a deficit, like within days (again, it's in the video), if you're having deficit days during your diet break, you're reversing the work you've put in to raise leptin. Lyle is quite clear about this.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@bmeadows380
Remember that banking calories is still an option during a break too in case you want to have a couple of really big food days.
There is another benefit of a diet/deficit break that helped me mentally. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. After the midpoint it became almost a chore to complete. All I really ever wanted was a couple of big food days and then I was ready to get back to it. This has helped reinforce my overall change.
To do this though I had to learn to be picky. As a rule I make my food earn its calories but I do this even more when I decide to eat over my normal goal. An example was a an experience last year with a funnel cake. I had not had one in years. I was really looking forward to it but it wasn't that good so I stopped eating it. I have done something similar with several other foods. I consider the number of calories in the item in front of me then after a couple of bites I ask if it is worth it before continuing. It irritates me now that past me would eat room temp french fries and burgers that had been sitting around too long. I had to lose weight I gained from high calorie food I didn't fully enjoy.
My maintenance days have done wonders in changing my perceptions. I am not sure if I outgrew some of this food a long time ago and just ate it out of habit/convenience, my new way of eating has changed what I think is good, or, more likely, a combination of both.
For the hormonal benefits, no, not really. You need to be at, or close, to maintenance every day. Leptin levels tank very quickly at a deficit, like within days (again, it's in the video), if you're having deficit days during your diet break, you're reversing the work you've put in to raise leptin. Lyle is quite clear about this.
That would be hard to calculate since your maintenance should go up some once your BMR resets though, right? There is also the chance that your NEAT might go up at maintenance.
Does he say how close is close enough? Starting to seem like a slight surplus may be the only way to get the full hormonal benefit.
I am going to need this information now because I plan to resume a deficit next week and postpone recomp until the gym opens back up. I should probably follow the recommendation for overweight since I was right on the line before I fluctuated. What would that be?2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@bmeadows380
Remember that banking calories is still an option during a break too in case you want to have a couple of really big food days.
There is another benefit of a diet/deficit break that helped me mentally. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. After the midpoint it became almost a chore to complete. All I really ever wanted was a couple of big food days and then I was ready to get back to it. This has helped reinforce my overall change.
To do this though I had to learn to be picky. As a rule I make my food earn its calories but I do this even more when I decide to eat over my normal goal. An example was a an experience last year with a funnel cake. I had not had one in years. I was really looking forward to it but it wasn't that good so I stopped eating it. I have done something similar with several other foods. I consider the number of calories in the item in front of me then after a couple of bites I ask if it is worth it before continuing. It irritates me now that past me would eat room temp french fries and burgers that had been sitting around too long. I had to lose weight I gained from high calorie food I didn't fully enjoy.
My maintenance days have done wonders in changing my perceptions. I am not sure if I outgrew some of this food a long time ago and just ate it out of habit/convenience, my new way of eating has changed what I think is good, or, more likely, a combination of both.
For the hormonal benefits, no, not really. You need to be at, or close, to maintenance every day. Leptin levels tank very quickly at a deficit, like within days (again, it's in the video), if you're having deficit days during your diet break, you're reversing the work you've put in to raise leptin. Lyle is quite clear about this.
That would be hard to calculate since your maintenance should go up some once your BMR resets though, right? There is also the chance that your NEAT might go up at maintenance.
Does he say how close is close enough? Starting to seem like a slight surplus may be the only way to get the full hormonal benefit.
I am going to need this information now because I plan to resume a deficit next week and postpone recomp until the gym opens back up. I should probably follow the recommendation for overweight since I was right on the line before I fluctuated. What would that be?
That's why he says 'or close'. He recommends adjusting estimated maintenance down by 10% to allow for metabolic slowdown (https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break). But, if you're logging accurately, you can calculate your actual TDEE pretty easily using your own weight loss data. You're also probably going to know if you're getting more NEAT, and can adjust (this is where Fitbits etc are handy, to an extent).
I personally did my breaks at calculated maintenance (actually, ate however many cals my Fitbit said I'd burned, because I knew it was accurate for me).
Cat 1 - 4-6 weeks
Cat 2 - 6-12 weeks
Cat 3 - 12-16 weeks1 -
Obviously for those who have a proper body fat estimation, use that. ^^That second chart is based on a calculation using BMI to estimate BF%.1
-
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Obviously for those who have a proper body fat estimation, use that. ^^That second chart is based on a calculation using BMI to estimate BF%.
That second chart were truly true: beach ready I'd be!
2 -
Since not everyone follows the Bodybuilding section, i figured i would post my refeed results. A little background, i am a 37 yr old male at 170 (sub 20%), train 5 days a week (mostly a upper lower split with some cycling after lifting for additional cardio). I ran keto for about 4 months and then switched to a modified version (higher protein and fiber with net 50-60 carbs. Since everything was shut down and i had to go to an at home workout, i figured a 2 day controlled refeed of ultra high carb, high protein and low fat could be beneficial. I ran it Saturday and Sunday.
Day 1 of refeed went pretty well except i had too much fiber. But i hit 209g pro, 40g fat, 340g carb at 2504 calories. I definitely found that i need to use more starches and less fibrous fruits to increase carbs. Today i decided to use cereal, rice and oats. Still going to aim for 170-200g protein and 300g+ carbs with around 30-40g fat.
I felt and looked lean this morning (even saw some ab definition). Came in at 170.1 which is where i was at the beginning of the week. Kind of surprised based on my carb content (~3-4x over normal). I did a workout yesterday and performed really well.
Day 2 refeed update. It went much better once i went with more cereal, starches and candy. Total calories 2556, 180 protein, 45g fat, 361 carb. Weight dropped to 169.7. Overall, i consider it a very good learning experience and will probably incorporate them every 2 or 3 weeks.
I am also going to maintain a slightly lower deficit in hopes of pushing hard during my home workouts. Goal is to hit abs 5 days a week (more to core strength) and to help address my back issues. Will probably run the AthleanX program with supplementation of a Beachbody cardio/agility workout on the off days.8 -
I am bumping this thread with my question that is redirected from another thread. Forgive me if this has been covered here already. This is a long thread
Here it is:I am wondering when is a good time to start allowing or including refeed/ taking a break from calorie deficit days. I'm 2 months into my weight loss, and haven't lost enough weight yet (6 lbs so far) to where I'd feel confident doing this. But I'm wondering if it would be helpful.
As I understand it going a little off the rails with eating one day can help mentally (not feel so restricted all the dang time) and physiologically even bump your weight loss rate up a little. I'm just still so uncomfortable with my current weight/ appearance/ size and it's so slow going that it feels risky to do anything other than keep at that deficit every day until more significant weight loss is achieved.
Just wondering at what point others have Incorporated this (did you wait until you lost a certain amount?) and how often.
Edited to add: after reading the Lyle McDonald article, he makes a very compelling case. My only concern is that it feels sort of hard to keep track of... like timing your diet breaks, doing these refeed/ carb increases and then free meals. Does anyone do it like he recommends in a way that feels seamless and not hard to keep track of?2 -
I am bumping this thread with my question that is redirected from another thread. Forgive me if this has been covered here already. This is a long thread
Here it is:I am wondering when is a good time to start allowing or including refeed/ taking a break from calorie deficit days. I'm 2 months into my weight loss, and haven't lost enough weight yet (6 lbs so far) to where I'd feel confident doing this. But I'm wondering if it would be helpful.
As I understand it going a little off the rails with eating one day can help mentally (not feel so restricted all the dang time) and physiologically even bump your weight loss rate up a little. I'm just still so uncomfortable with my current weight/ appearance/ size and it's so slow going that it feels risky to do anything other than keep at that deficit every day until more significant weight loss is achieved.
Just wondering at what point others have Incorporated this (did you wait until you lost a certain amount?) and how often.
Edited to add: after reading the Lyle McDonald article, he makes a very compelling case. My only concern is that it feels sort of hard to keep track of... like timing your diet breaks, doing these refeed/ carb increases and then free meals. Does anyone do it like he recommends in a way that feels seamless and not hard to keep track of?
A lot of when to start/how often to take depends on your current weight and body fat %. The leaner you are, the more frequently you should take breaks. Just one thing, you say 'going off the rails a little', which isn't at all what diet breaks and refeeds are, they are planned times at maintenance.
A single day can definitely help mentally, and you can start incorporating those any time (though if you are feeling that restricted early on, I'd perhaps look at your approach first). It won't do anything physiologically though.
If you scroll back up this page, you'll see someone else recently asked the question about frequency, and I gave some further info on that based on current weight/body fat level
When I first started this thread, I was in healthy weight range, really just working with vanity weight, and chose to do weekly refeeds. That worked really well for me, and did feel seamless and obviously easy to keep track of. I ran a higher deficit during the week (mostly using exercise cals) so that I still had a decent rate of loss.
It really doesn't need to be complicated.4 -
Holy hell, I've been away from this thread for a good while. The summoning is a couple months late, but from memory, the more fat you carry (i.e. the more fat you have to lose), the diet break is still beneficial in entraining what maintenance portions look and feel like once done with the dieting phase. In other words, the foods that you are eating to get you lean are going to be what you will be eating keep you lean for the rest of your life, just with additional portions for maintenance.
As an update, since we've all been bound to the home, I've actually leaned out and regained strength, with the bonus of actually growing lats. I started cutting in January being 185 lbs, and hit 168.4 lbs in February. Started strength training after I got my power rack and weights set up in March, and have been maintaining since, as recomposition. As a support to the previous paragraph, what I've been eating is no different from how I used to eat to achieve leanness. I'm maintaining around 170 lbs, give or take a couple pounds in either direction. The method is grossly over simple: eat at least 150g protein per day, carbs and fat fall where they may as long as I'm around 2200-2400 kcal/day. Food supports my training in this case, as the focus is strength and a bit of hypertrophy. So, what started as a diet break, became maintenance.
If I feel the need to cut again, then I'll adjust carbs and fat down to reduce calories. As an additional bonus tip to support the idea of losing fat while gaining muscle, it happens for noobs, previously trained individuals coming back after a layoff (me), or anabolic users; and strength gains came back relatively quickly, and new muscle growth happened fairly quickly as well (e.g. lat growth).10 -
So the less you have to lose the more often you should do diet breaks? Can somebody break that down? Is that why the last 5-10lbs are the hardest to lose? Not taking enough breaks?0
-
So the less you have to lose the more often you should do diet breaks? Can somebody break that down? Is that why the last 5-10lbs are the hardest to lose? Not taking enough breaks?
The last 5lbs to lose are the hardest because of how insanely accurate you have to be. For me its taken me almost 6 months to go from the 160-165 range to the 155-160 range. Will probably be even longer to get to 150-155.
3 -
Correct on that concept, I think the extra info you are wondering about is page 2 updates.
Last 5-10 generally because of the accuracy issue. But also body has been under stress potentially for awhile, and waiting for a whoosh or such.
You can also skin that cat a different way since 250 cal deficit can be hard to keep. Take your week diet break.
Then keep 500 cal deficit for 2 weeks, take another break, then another 2 weeks. 3 weeks to lose 2 lbs instead of 4 on paper, and keeping that deficit perhaps in reality too.4 -
Correct on that concept, I think the extra info you are wondering about is page 2 updates.
Last 5-10 generally because of the accuracy issue. But also body has been under stress potentially for awhile, and waiting for a whoosh or such.
You can also skin that cat a different way since 250 cal deficit can be hard to keep. Take your week diet break.
Then keep 500 cal deficit for 2 weeks, take another break, then another 2 weeks. 3 weeks to lose 2 lbs instead of 4 on paper, and keeping that deficit perhaps in reality too.
I'm not anywhere near being ready for hte last 10 lbs, but I'm glad to see this post; I had never thought of working it out this way. a 500 calorie deficit would for me be much easier to manage!0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Categories are based on body fat percentage, can't remember the actual cut off between 2 and 3 (Cat 1 is 24% or below, for women), but based on your weight, you're a Cat 3.
You need to be at maintenance cals for at least a week to get the hormonal benefits, so yes, doing it that was would be fine if it's psychologically easier for you. Longer at maintenance is better, but it's up to you.
I checked my diary for when I was doing re-feeds, I was aiming to hit 300g a day, which was ~50% cals for me. Protein worked out to 30%, fats to 20%, though all of them were actually based on grams per lb of ideal weight. It's all in the video, from memory.
I've only just started adding activity and that's all cardio, so my body fat % is definitely still higher. I'd like to start weights but can't afford both a gym membership and the jiu-jitsu class, so I'm sticking with the jiu-jitsu for now. I don't like weight machines and I really want to start out with a trainer when I can afford it because I want to make sure I've got the forms right and I'm doing it right, and I can't tell that from a video on Youtube.
I am an experienced gym goer. It’ll be a long while before I can go back and do my workout the way I want (it’s not even open yet and when it is only hour-long slots by appointment, no drop-ins.)
I bought a couple sets of resistance bands (max weight for each set is 150 pounds). Love them! I may actually buy a third set next month. They come with handles and ankle wraps. (They anchor through a door.) I can’t replicate my beloved leg presses, but they give a run for my money on squats And other leg exercises. 😃💪🏻 And I have lots of room to go up regarding upper body. I’ve been enjoying myself Getting creative and trying new movements and increasing the weight. I track the exercises and weight on a google sheet. I use an app for the gym—I can never remember that stuff! 🤪
Quarantine has been tough, and I’ve made some good changes signed up for a meal delivery service and I’m getting more fruits and veggies. Still working on site some days—we had college students with no place to go so we kept them. And some who left and came back because home wasn’t good for them in one way or another. And all my maintenance and custodial staff stayed on site, they needed support, too.
We all do what we can with what we’ve got.
4 -
I am a couple of weeks away from a 90 day break. After 2.75 years and over 250 pounds lost I am feeling kind of worn down. I can't seem to shake the fatigue this time with normal breaks or trips away which usually does the trick.
A lot has needed to happen in the last almost 3 years for me to get to vanity pound range and I am thankful to be here. My instinct tells me I need a nice long break to recharge or going forward will just be an unnecessary upstream and hard current swim. That seems like a stupid way to proceed.
I am really just posting this here for any other person that comes along with a very long and very large weight loss. I am not sure that it is just me or if it should be expected that the cycles of fatigue eventually hits one that needs more than a couple of weeks to resolve. I will admit that I did not always take my breaks on schedule. I would sometimes delay them 2 or 3 weeks but I do not think that alone is the problem... it probably just didn't help.
I am not discontent so my process won't change. I love my process. I will just add the calories back in. What I do is sustainable but being in a calorie deficit forever is not for obvious reasons.11 -
Glad this got bumped.
Very true the physical pounding can just be tiring - what's bad is when that leads to wanting to chuck the logging when you know that may be required for a very long time.
I've been doing 1 week break based on lbs lost, which ends up being every 5th week anyway, but I really should have planned out by time and had it set for planning.
Why?
Trying to do 3 weeks of groceries at a time to limit exposures - when I don't plan that extra food eaten reduces that time span pretty bad. Plus I forget to fill in some fun calories!4 -
Glad this got bumped.
Very true the physical pounding can just be tiring - what's bad is when that leads to wanting to chuck the logging when you know that may be required for a very long time.
I've been doing 1 week break based on lbs lost, which ends up being every 5th week anyway, but I really should have planned out by time and had it set for planning.
Why?
Trying to do 3 weeks of groceries at a time to limit exposures - when I don't plan that extra food eaten reduces that time span pretty bad. Plus I forget to fill in some fun calories!
This.
The best way I know how to identify fatigue is that I feel my grip loosening. I do things like sacrifice a little deficit more days aka calorie creep. Some days I am just deciding to eat maintenance. I have always allowed maintenance days when I felt they were needed but these are last minute decisions that are happening more frequently than I like. I am still currently losing but now at a pace that is below my desired rate of loss. The danger is continuing much longer and allowing my grip to loosen more. I am not going to let that happen though. I see it. I have no fears that holding on to the 20th will be a problem. After that it will be an extended break.6 -
Just giving this a bump, it might interest some more recent members.6
-
Bumpity bump bump. Lots of good information in this thread.4
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions