Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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I LOVE ice skating!! I could quite happily just lie on an ice rink right now. Maybe I'll go stick my head in the freezer for a bit (actually I just turned on the air con, which I hate using because it dries out my skin, not cool when you have eczema).
Eponine, will send preggers thoughts your way!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Okay, photo time
This little bridge was screaming out to have yoga done on it, but if you do yoga on a bridge and no one takes a photo, did you really do it? Also safety, blah, blah (I totally would have gotten up there if someone had been with me, and yes, I will be dragging a friend up that hill sometime so I can do just that)
I see that and see Inspector Clouseau - "Ah yes, the parallel bars..."
https://youtu.be/CzycofSj7EM 5 -
Haha, there was only a small ravine if I fell the wrong way...
Officially in worst eczema outbreak of my life. Totally new place, started at the very top of my thighs (outer) a couple of days ago, then when I was walking home from work I though 'man, the back of my leg is itchy', looked around, and yeah, backs of both thighs now a rashy mess too. Yay. I feel completely punk, not remotely like eating, except maybe cold fruit, of which I do not have ~800 cals worth.
So there goes outdoor exercise in sunshine hours, including walking to work, because no way I'm going near that with sunblock.
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Ouch2
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That is the mild word for it, yes.0
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I'd checked in with a totally non-sciency report on my own diet break a week or so ago, which is not in keeping with the spirit of this thread so sorry about that. Now, let the non-science continue!
No scale so no way to weigh myself daily with precision and report findings like many have done on here. The best I could do was to say my measurements were the same both before and after, which I realise is not saying a lot because imagine how much I would have had to eat in those two weeks to blow myself up significantly. Just saying. Muddying the waters, I ate well over the MFP-recommended maintenance rate during that period but that doesn't mean I necessarily ate over my 'real' maintenance because I'd previously also lost weight faster than MFP predicted. I figured if I overshot it would be worth knowing I'd at least made it high enough. Sleep problems had been one of the motivations for taking a break, so restoration of hormonal balance seemed like a big deal.
But again, I don't actually know for sure if I ate at or over, which I mention because someone upthread asked about it. If I had to guess I'd say I went a bit over because I was travelling and not in particularly good control of my food intake (fast food, pub food most nights). Plus there were definitely at least a couple of days where I went over by like 1000 calories and MFP can't be that far off.
Returned to deficit a week ago exactly but didn't actually do all that well on calories this past week. Trying to regain control after the travelling-related food free-for-all. Nevertheless, this morning I was down half an inch each on my waist, hips, and thighs. Once again muddying the scientific waters, unfortunately, I should also say that TOM arrived yesterday, which usually comes with a bit of a whoosh, but TOM wouldn't have whooshed my measurements PAST where they were before the diet break started, right?4 -
Nope, TOM whoosh wouldn't account for smaller measurements than before diet break
I am feeling craptastic. Went for a mega shake with dark choc PB to get a decent whack of cals in, but still have another ~180 to go (and that's not including going over Fitbit TDEE). I'll probably just have chocolate.
I've previously pondered whether these big eczema flares actually increase BMR, takes a lot to create a rash like that, and the heat that comes off it is quite impressive. Of course, the flares involving larger areas also tend to come with wicked fatigue, which tanks my NEAT. I'm actually glad I'm on a diet break, because it's not that big a deal if my TDEE (according to Fitbit) is a bit lower (read: virtually sedentary).
Could be interesting to see what happens the next few days though, since I'm monitoring so closely.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nope, TOM whoosh wouldn't account for smaller measurements than before diet break
Right then, so in the name of trying to encourage anybody on this board who is still scared of the idea of temporarily upping calories, let's gloss my case as: 2 week break, ate over maintenance, and even despite having a weak deficit in the first week back post-break still whooshed like a mother.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nope, TOM whoosh wouldn't account for smaller measurements than before diet break
Right then, so in the name of trying to encourage anybody on this board who is still scared of the idea of temporarily upping calories, let's gloss my case as: 2 week break, ate over maintenance, and even despite having a weak deficit in the first week back post-break still whooshed like a mother.
Yep, if you were holding on to cortisol-related fluid, diet break did the trick to get rid of it!1 -
Calorie target acquired (slightly over, even). I think I'm going to attempt sleep pretty soon.4
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*sigh* I started back into deficit on Friday, cutting down 500 calories until today where I went back to the full 1,000 calories off.
Except my weight actually increased this weekend, despite eating at a deficit. I was working hard in the house again this weekend, putting linoleum down, though yesterday was a complete break day - I napped most of the afternoon away. But this morning, I was still 3 lbs above what I ran the whole time I was on a diet break.
Now I didn't wear my constriction socks for the last several days, but I also didn't notice my legs swelling all that badly above my socks. I'm about 2 weeks out from my last TOM, so it's not that, either.
My all-time low right before the diet break was 276 lb, but the very next day after I started the diet break, I popped up to 280.9 and stayed there the entire break, so I'm thinking the 276 was probably a fib on my scale's part. But in any case, the day after I started back into deficit, and I popped up to 284. This morning read 283. My official weigh day is Thursday; it will be interesting to see if I at least get back down to the 280.9 (I hope, anyway!). Still frustrating because I need to get to 275 lbs to have lost 100 lbs since I started, and I really wanted to hit that goal number before my doctor's appointment on 12/18!0 -
Officially weighed in this morning. 187.8 lbs which was less than expected. I possibly underestimated my maintenance calories or over estimated my intake. It is still up a bit from my low weight, but I expected a bit more.0
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I'd checked in with a totally non-sciency report on my own diet break a week or so ago, which is not in keeping with the spirit of this thread so sorry about that. Now, let the non-science continue!
No scale so no way to weigh myself daily with precision and report findings like many have done on here. The best I could do was to say my measurements were the same both before and after, which I realise is not saying a lot because imagine how much I would have had to eat in those two weeks to blow myself up significantly. Just saying. Muddying the waters, I ate well over the MFP-recommended maintenance rate during that period but that doesn't mean I necessarily ate over my 'real' maintenance because I'd previously also lost weight faster than MFP predicted. I figured if I overshot it would be worth knowing I'd at least made it high enough. Sleep problems had been one of the motivations for taking a break, so restoration of hormonal balance seemed like a big deal.
But again, I don't actually know for sure if I ate at or over, which I mention because someone upthread asked about it. If I had to guess I'd say I went a bit over because I was travelling and not in particularly good control of my food intake (fast food, pub food most nights). Plus there were definitely at least a couple of days where I went over by like 1000 calories and MFP can't be that far off.
Returned to deficit a week ago exactly but didn't actually do all that well on calories this past week. Trying to regain control after the travelling-related food free-for-all. Nevertheless, this morning I was down half an inch each on my waist, hips, and thighs. Once again muddying the scientific waters, unfortunately, I should also say that TOM arrived yesterday, which usually comes with a bit of a whoosh, but TOM wouldn't have whooshed my measurements PAST where they were before the diet break started, right?
Your body may vary.
I know for me, my smallest measurements usually come the day before the cyclical fun starts.
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A bit of a dejected morning. Was the same this Monday as I was last Monday -- which makes sense, considering that I supposedly ate at maintenance last week. But last Monday was up two pounds from the day before, which ... is not helpful.
I know there's some cyclical water weight at play, but I am not feeling encouraged. I think I'd been at maintenance for almost two weeks, and I would have thought *something* would have budged by now.0 -
I weighed this morning and no gain and no loss. Considering Thanksgiving Day and Leftovers Friday, I'm not mad at that at all. I did use the refeed principals that I learned about on this thread to keep Friday and Saturday at maintenance. Thursday did go quite a bit over, but it was nice to not freak out when I didn't stay strict to my deficit. So thanks guys!
I don't plan to keep doing refeeds (except for Christmas, maybe), but it fit into life this time.
Can someone tell me what a whoosh is?2 -
Can someone tell me what a whoosh is?
I'm not the most knowledgeable one here on such things, so will not give the best explanation but as it's been explained to me (take with a grain of 'woo' salt) effectively it's when you suddenly lose a whole bunch of weight at once, like whoosh! It happens because our fat cells may first fill with water before flushing themselves out, so instead of losing steadily you seem to hang on to your extra weight for a while even after you've 'burned' the fat, then lose a lot at once on a delayed reaction.
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Probably should have gone directly with a Lyle McDonald-related link given the thread rather than attempting to put things in my own layman's words ... https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/1
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I'm finally back from my 4 day hibernation. I ate, Netflix and chilled, did some maintenance activity, and ate some more. Food was hardly tracked accurately and weight fluctuation settled around 176-178. Expected/10; would eat again. Lol.
The cycle speak doesn't deter the men folk as much as it's not too deep in our realm, or mine anyway
As far as addressing the benefit of having a full diet break go beyond 2 weeks, yes, there's a real benefit to having an "indefinite" break.. and that's lifetime maintenance. The ultimate goal for most. Trying to pinpoint a daily maintenance number is a bit of a hat trick since it's a moving target and each day is more or less variable, depending on your daily activity, stress level, cycle, etc. So take the average of what you're eating, compare it to an objective metric (scale weight/measurements/clothes/visual assessment/etc) and depending on the outcome, you adjust intake accordingly to add to that running average.
If anyone took the Thanksgiving holiday as a refeed/maintenance/diet break period, then hopefully it was a mental relief. If you're like me, you splurge the day of and repeat days of eating leftovers just tends to taper down in volume and indulgence as monotony sets in. So in the end, it's not too much of a spike.
Just as an interesting/funny side story, a fb buddy decided to surpass his previous victory of eating 10lbs of turkey, and almost single-handedly demolished a 21lb bird. I don't advise anyone attempt it but it was a source of pride among carnivores lol. And while Martin Berkhan doesn't seem to document the cheesecake life on holidays anymore, the primary takeaway is that a small blip in long term success isn't going to destroy progress as long as the rest of the year is pretty damn stable.
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WB @anubis609, I was starting to worry!!
I am feeling just awesome today /sarcasm. Stupid rash doesn't seem to have spread though, which is something, at least. But joint and muscle pain has set in (mild, but still...), and man, the fatigue
. Today should be strength training day, but given that lifting my coffee cup is an effort, that's certainly not happening this morning. Plus heat and sweat will just aggravate that lovely mess on my thighs. It's 8am, already 17 C, 86% humidity (no, it's not going to rain, we wish!), and heading for 22 C (which probably means more like 25).
Weight is down 100g, so essentially holding steady, unless I'm retaining a whack of fluid from inflammation.
I would love to just curl up and try to sleep through this, which is what I usually do with major flares, but I have work that needs to be done by tomorrow. That also involves kicking my brain into gear through the fatigue fog.
Shoot. Me. Now.3 -
I'm finally back from my 4 day hibernation. I ate, Netflix and chilled, did some maintenance activity, and ate some more. Food was hardly tracked accurately and weight fluctuation settled around 176-178. Expected/10; would eat again. Lol.
The cycle speak doesn't deter the men folk as much as it's not too deep in our realm, or mine anyway
As far as addressing the benefit of having a full diet break go beyond 2 weeks, yes, there's a real benefit to having an "indefinite" break.. and that's lifetime maintenance. The ultimate goal for most. Trying to pinpoint a daily maintenance number is a bit of a hat trick since it's a moving target and each day is more or less variable, depending on your daily activity, stress level, cycle, etc. So take the average of what you're eating, compare it to an objective metric (scale weight/measurements/clothes/visual assessment/etc) and depending on the outcome, you adjust intake accordingly to add to that running average.
If anyone took the Thanksgiving holiday as a refeed/maintenance/diet break period, then hopefully it was a mental relief. If you're like me, you splurge the day of and repeat days of eating leftovers just tends to taper down in volume and indulgence as monotony sets in. So in the end, it's not too much of a spike.
Just as an interesting/funny side story, a fb buddy decided to surpass his previous victory of eating 10lbs of turkey, and almost single-handedly demolished a 21lb bird. I don't advise anyone attempt it but it was a source of pride among carnivores lol. And while Martin Berkhan doesn't seem to document the cheesecake life on holidays anymore, the primary takeaway is that a small blip in long term success isn't going to destroy progress as long as the rest of the year is pretty damn stable.
This is how I've come to feel about holidays and vacations, and I think it's probably the most well-adjusted attitude to have towards them unless you are the type of person who gets sent into a spiral of bad behaviors that are really hard to claw your way out of.
Regardless, sounds like you had a great weekend!
I had to limit my indulgence to one day because the over consumption of that macro mix and my IBS did not play well together. Since the leftovers still consisted of that macro mix, discretion was the better part of valor and I noped out of them, mainly because I wanted some time with my family this past weekend that wasn't spent in the smallest room of the house
Scale is still up from my lowest by 3 pounds, but down 3 pounds from what it was yesterday. Yes, it was up by 6 pounds from my lowest, even though I've been eating at deficit since Friday. This is fairly normal for how my body reacts, so I'm not terribly surprised.
Meanwhile, my thyroid has been ruled out as the cause of what's going on with me. It is in fact, slightly on the over active side. My dosage was once again lowered just slightly. This has been an ongoing thing ever since my thyroid went crazy a couple years back and stopped responding to med doses. At that point, we went through a spell of constantly titrating the doses ever upward. The process took more than a year before I finally normalized and we added almost a 100mcg more to my dosage at that time. I stabilized at that point for a while, and then I started exercising and losing weight, and my thyroid's been running hot ever since.
Anyway, the fatigue and being slow to recover continues, so I can only assume it's a psoriatic arthritis flare. Nothing to do for one of those but continued milder forms of exercise, good nutrition and sleep hygiene, and waiting it out.
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Thanks for the welcome @Nony_Mouse .. and my condolences on the flare-up. 17C with that much humidity doesn't even register in my head as comfortable.. is it? Lol. It sounds like living in a humidifier.
Also wanted to just add this site as a reference point for anyone that wants to peruse through their article archives:
http://sci-fit.net/2017/energy-expenditure-study-collection/1 -
Thanks for the welcome @Nony_Mouse .. and my condolences on the flare-up. 17C with that much humidity doesn't even register in my head as comfortable.. is it? Lol. It sounds like living in a humidifier.
Also wanted to just add this site as a reference point for anyone that wants to peruse through their article archives:
http://sci-fit.net/2017/energy-expenditure-study-collection/
It's not particularly comfortable, though far more so than that humidity level and mid to high 20s! But, the cloud has already lifted, we're up to 18 C and down to 80% humidity. Basically I need it to get to a level where it's neither too dry (because it dries out my already dry skin) nor too wet (because that's sticky and sweaty, which hurts like a mofo). I will almost certainly be running the air con in my lab again today, which also dries my skin.
This will be me today
https://youtu.be/q75igh4TXw8 8 -
I missed ALOT of this thread recently and wanted to catch up:
First, I am supposedly an INFP-T. I haven't had time to read all the backup info, but the 93% introverted seems a little low LOL. I guess it's not a surprise that many of us communicating here on the interwebs are introverted. Hopefully you will all appreciate when someday I post my Manifesto right here in the MFP forums!
Figured I should post a pic of my dearly departed Simon, no current kitties as I can't afford all the extra fees for an animal in my apartment right now
Purposefully eating a bit under my normal 250 deficit during the week and then eating maintenance on the weekend is still helping with compliance, and my usual fluctuation between 126-131 lbs (for like the last year!) has suddenly changed to 124.5-129 lbs. While possibly a statistical anomaly, I have decided to consider that twitch of the scale a success and carry on with this pattern. Until the last week of the year, where all the holidays plus my birthday will probably mean not logging and vaguely trying to stay in spitting distance of maintenance
Loving the hiking, cat, and doggo pics and the continuing discussion! Best thread on MFP, kudos9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm finally back from my 4 day hibernation. I ate, Netflix and chilled, did some maintenance activity, and ate some more. Food was hardly tracked accurately and weight fluctuation settled around 176-178. Expected/10; would eat again. Lol.
The cycle speak doesn't deter the men folk as much as it's not too deep in our realm, or mine anyway
As far as addressing the benefit of having a full diet break go beyond 2 weeks, yes, there's a real benefit to having an "indefinite" break.. and that's lifetime maintenance. The ultimate goal for most. Trying to pinpoint a daily maintenance number is a bit of a hat trick since it's a moving target and each day is more or less variable, depending on your daily activity, stress level, cycle, etc. So take the average of what you're eating, compare it to an objective metric (scale weight/measurements/clothes/visual assessment/etc) and depending on the outcome, you adjust intake accordingly to add to that running average.
If anyone took the Thanksgiving holiday as a refeed/maintenance/diet break period, then hopefully it was a mental relief. If you're like me, you splurge the day of and repeat days of eating leftovers just tends to taper down in volume and indulgence as monotony sets in. So in the end, it's not too much of a spike.
Just as an interesting/funny side story, a fb buddy decided to surpass his previous victory of eating 10lbs of turkey, and almost single-handedly demolished a 21lb bird. I don't advise anyone attempt it but it was a source of pride among carnivores lol. And while Martin Berkhan doesn't seem to document the cheesecake life on holidays anymore, the primary takeaway is that a small blip in long term success isn't going to destroy progress as long as the rest of the year is pretty damn stable.
This is how I've come to feel about holidays and vacations, and I think it's probably the most well-adjusted attitude to have towards them unless you are the type of person who gets sent into a spiral of bad behaviors that are really hard to claw your way out of.
Regardless, sounds like you had a great weekend!
I had to limit my indulgence to one day because the over consumption of that macro mix and my IBS did not play well together. Since the leftovers still consisted of that macro mix, discretion was the better part of valor and I noped out of them, mainly because I wanted some time with my family this past weekend that wasn't spent in the smallest room of the house
Scale is still up from my lowest by 3 pounds, but down 3 pounds from what it was yesterday. Yes, it was up by 6 pounds from my lowest, even though I've been eating at deficit since Friday. This is fairly normal for how my body reacts, so I'm not terribly surprised.
Meanwhile, my thyroid has been ruled out as the cause of what's going on with me. It is in fact, slightly on the over active side. My dosage was once again lowered just slightly. This has been an ongoing thing ever since my thyroid went crazy a couple years back and stopped responding to med doses. At that point, we went through a spell of constantly titrating the doses ever upward. The process took more than a year before I finally normalized and we added almost a 100mcg more to my dosage at that time. I stabilized at that point for a while, and then I started exercising and losing weight, and my thyroid's been running hot ever since.
Anyway, the fatigue and being slow to recover continues, so I can only assume it's a psoriatic arthritis flare. Nothing to do for one of those but continued milder forms of exercise, good nutrition and sleep hygiene, and waiting it out.
And you make a great point here also. Celebrations are usually food-centric in the modern world where the actual reason for most events are to be focused on people. Granted, we all have relatives we'd rather not see, but I'm also of the mind that as adults, we truly don't need to interact with them or give any priority to certain people if we don't want to. Hell, if you don't want to see family then you're perfectly okay with spending downtime with people you choose to be around vs feeling obligated to see relatives.
My logic wants to tie the recovery/fatigue to the thyroid condition as well, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to make a complete hypothesis, but I will advocate the pulsing of tolerable activity, nutrition, and rest.1 -
Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.
Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.2 -
I missed ALOT of this thread recently and wanted to catch up:
First, I am supposedly an INFP-T. I haven't had time to read all the backup info, but the 93% introverted seems a little low LOL. I guess it's not a surprise that many of us communicating here on the interwebs are introverted. Hopefully you will all appreciate when someday I post my Manifesto right here in the MFP forums!
Figured I should post a pic of my dearly departed Simon, no current kitties as I can't afford all the extra fees for an animal in my apartment right now
Purposefully eating a bit under my normal 250 deficit during the week and then eating maintenance on the weekend is still helping with compliance, and my usual fluctuation between 126-131 lbs (for like the last year!) has suddenly changed to 124.5-129 lbs. While possibly a statistical anomaly, I have decided to consider that twitch of the scale a success and carry on with this pattern. Until the last week of the year, where all the holidays plus my birthday will probably mean not logging and vaguely trying to stay in spitting distance of maintenance
Loving the hiking, cat, and doggo pics and the continuing discussion! Best thread on MFP, kudos
As long as your manifesto involves paranoid conspiracy theories, it's fine by me
Sorry for the loss of your buddy and to everyone who has also experienced a loss.
But, I suppose I should introduce my gluttonous bulldog of a cat, Snickers AKA #captainasshole
He's my inner fat boy personified
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.
Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.
I can't argue with the archaeologist.. but I'm also under the impression that historical man has usually been with their tribe/group for a large duration of their lives, or were they also like modern society where small groups/individuals stayed to themselves and members would gather from a distance to a singular meeting place?
In context, I'm trying to pin the obligation to gather among people where food became the escape from interaction, or that food became the primary focus with disregard for socialization.2 -
I missed ALOT of this thread recently and wanted to catch up:
First, I am supposedly an INFP-T. I haven't had time to read all the backup info, but the 93% introverted seems a little low LOL. I guess it's not a surprise that many of us communicating here on the interwebs are introverted. Hopefully you will all appreciate when someday I post my Manifesto right here in the MFP forums!
Figured I should post a pic of my dearly departed Simon, no current kitties as I can't afford all the extra fees for an animal in my apartment right now
Purposefully eating a bit under my normal 250 deficit during the week and then eating maintenance on the weekend is still helping with compliance, and my usual fluctuation between 126-131 lbs (for like the last year!) has suddenly changed to 124.5-129 lbs. While possibly a statistical anomaly, I have decided to consider that twitch of the scale a success and carry on with this pattern. Until the last week of the year, where all the holidays plus my birthday will probably mean not logging and vaguely trying to stay in spitting distance of maintenance
Loving the hiking, cat, and doggo pics and the continuing discussion! Best thread on MFP, kudos
As long as your manifesto involves paranoid conspiracy theories, it's fine by me
Sorry for the loss of your buddy and to everyone who has also experienced a loss.
But, I suppose I should introduce my gluttonous bulldog of a cat, Snickers AKA #captainasshole
He's my inner fat boy personified
Aw, Simon and Snickers are kind of twinsies!1 -
I am all about gratuitous cat picture time. GirlCat, who is also my little old lady cat, and responds to Turkey.
She doesn't like to share the couch. Shortly before this picture was taken, she reached to stretch her claws and poked me in the foot. I'm not entirely sure it wasn't intentional.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.
Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.
I can't argue with the archaeologist.. but I'm also under the impression that historical man people have usually been with their tribe/group for a large duration of their lives, or were they also like modern society where small groups/individuals stayed to themselves and members would gather from a distance to a singular meeting place?
In context, I'm trying to pin the obligation to gather among people where food became the escape from interaction, or that food became the primary focus with disregard for socialization.
Based on archaeological evidence, and off the top of my very non-functioning brain, it would appear that tribes would gather together for large celebrations/events (think harvest ceremonies, funerals, marriages between tribes...).
As to food being an escape from interaction/socialisation, alas one of those things not visible in the archaeological record! But I would say food was part of interaction/socialisation, and a very important part, often as a display of wealth. Or to appease the gods.3
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