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What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?

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Replies

  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    I'm finding this funny as kids are typically the most brutally honest of any age - seconded only by the elderly, who have learned not to care what others think. Yet the consensus seems to be that these statements would be stated to children as they have not yet learned to limit themselves.

    Also interesting how certain people tend to think of their personal experiences in expanding dimensions - personal struggles, obstacles overcome, tales of triumph and misery...but think of others as single dimension characters, in this case "privileged".



  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Agree to disagree...

    Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Agree to disagree...

    Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.

    again, agree to disagree...
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    edited October 2017
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Agree to disagree...

    Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.

    again, agree to disagree...

    LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    I would put intelligence in the category of circumstance rather then privilege...

    That works for me too.

    I guess I don't really care either way.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Intelligence is probably a privilege. I know I am sometimes unfair (when frustrated with someone else) in attributing to "not trying" or "intentionally being obtuse" things that sometimes just are a matter of intelligence or aptitude. I loved school and currently have a job that tends to appeal to people who loved school (uses many of the same skills) and saying "well, anyone else could have the exact same job I do, if they'd just bothered" is not actually true. Which of course isn't that important, since there are many other ways to make a living.

    estherdragon's point about it being so frustrating to work at something you know you will only be mediocre at best at is worth considering too. I'm bad at a lot of team sports in part because I did not work at them, but I did not work at them because I believe I would never have gotten more than eh at them and the work is unpleasant to me. Finding something I enjoy (running and biking and other solitary sports, not team things) was important for me. Similarly, I enjoy singing but am not musical, so haven't really worked at getting good or fooled myself I can. I sing privately, instead. ;-)

    There are things I wish I'd worked harder at despite a seeming lack of aptitude (learning another language), but it always comes with a tradeoff.

    So out of curiously, I can see disagreeing with this and would be interested in exchanging ideas, but how is it woo? Seems wimpy to me not to address it if you want to make an argument that it is.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?

    You've got me. But many times in my 40 years, I've been told that I got where I am through some sort of privilege.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    edited October 2017
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    I would put intelligence in the category of circumstance rather then privilege...

    I think that a person of average intelligence with a good work ethic will go farther in life than a highly intelligent person who lacks one.

    Agree. I think the saying is, "talent beats hard work until talent works hard..." Or somehting like that.

    Not really sure what the saying is, but I agree with you. I tell my son all the time, do your best. Don't worry about what others are doing, you focus on what you are doing and give it your all...
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    edited October 2017
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Agree to disagree...

    Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.

    again, agree to disagree...

    LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.

    Really?

    I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't we just leave it at that...?
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?

    It's not, of course. But having certain advantages can make a difference. It will be harder for someone who comes from a culture of lazy quitters to not be a lazy quitter than for someone who comes from a culture of hard work and success.
  • madwells1
    madwells1 Posts: 510 Member
    edited October 2017
    The impact of this phrase on me was basically an anxiety disorder.

    On the positive side, for society as a whole, some really good music came from realizing the flawed ideology that this phrase is based on. Grunge and 90's rock is so much better than what I am hearing on the radio now.

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm finding this funny as kids are typically the most brutally honest of any age - seconded only by the elderly, who have learned not to care what others think. Yet the consensus seems to be that these statements would be stated to children as they have not yet learned to limit themselves.

    Also interesting how certain people tend to think of their personal experiences in expanding dimensions - personal struggles, obstacles overcome, tales of triumph and misery...but think of others as single dimension characters, in this case "privileged".

    I think most of us seem to be defining ourselves as privileged in some ways, no?

    I know I think I am in some ways (and not in some other ways that I overcame). Acknowledging that in some ways I am lucky doesn't seem negative.

    For me the key is to focus on not giving up in your own life, but also not assuming that because something came naturally to you (or was something you chose to work at or enjoyed working at or wanted to pursue or even felt like you HAD to pursue) doesn't mean that everyone would have been equally capable.

    I do think our expectations are often too low of others in general, so would agree with that argument, but I do think people have different natural capacities and how we are raised makes a big difference in what our capacities are too. That I saw people living in a particular way and valuing certain things (work, education), was helpful for me and I picked up related skills despite a really problematic upbringing in some other ways.

    I used to volunteer at a program aimed at helping kids from an underprivileged background get GEDs or jobs or both, and with the job thing it was amazing how they didn't often have the skills to SEE opportunities or to know how to get them. Teaching these skills was also possible, but they ARE skills/knowledge that is learned, things we learn from the people around us in many cases.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    I haven't read any of the responses but honestly, when I hear those phrases being used I just think that they're often unrealistic and they tend to make people shoot for the stars when there's no hope in getting there.

    I'm very practical.

    You never know until you try. And if you're going to try, do your absolute best...
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    katsheare wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.

    Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...

    Depends on who you ask.

    No...

    Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.

    Agree to disagree...

    Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.

    again, agree to disagree...

    LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.

    Really?

    I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't we just leave it at that...?

    Because we're not talking about YOUR opinion, we're talking about other people's opinion. AND you're asserting... belligerently and erroneously, that no such opinion exists.

    if you say so...
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    In order . . .

    1. to me it means nothing. except that the person speaking is not thinking deeply enough for their thoughts to be worth anything.

    2. simple answer: i find most of the people say stuff like this sound brain-dead to me. more complex answer: i find it negative, for a small group of reasons.
    a. it's stupid. as you pointed out, manifestly not true
    b. in the usual contexts where it comes up it's dismissive, in an unpleasantly indirect way
    c. it's misdirective as well. assuming we're talking about health/weightloss/fitness here, those things are not even really about hard work. hard work is just a component of the whole picture.
    d. and finally, it's punitive. it sets the hearer up in this adversarial position with respect to their own goals. like not being there is a thing that has to be beaten with 'hard'ness and 'work'. not something that i agree with.
    e. i also find a great many of the people who say stuff like this to be intellectually/socially dishonest as well. this allows them to pull the 'just trying to be inspirational' card when challenged, rather than confronting any new information about the challenge but that's by the way.

    3. i'd agree with anyone who thinks it promotes/enables/validates an elitist kind of attitude among those who like to live by and hand out remarks of this kind.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    doesn't mean you can turn into a ball of incandescent gas if you try hard enough.

    !!! O_O you can't O_O ???


    welp. my whole entire life has been wasted then.

  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm finding this funny as kids are typically the most brutally honest of any age - seconded only by the elderly, who have learned not to care what others think. Yet the consensus seems to be that these statements would be stated to children as they have not yet learned to limit themselves.

    Also interesting how certain people tend to think of their personal experiences in expanding dimensions - personal struggles, obstacles overcome, tales of triumph and misery...but think of others as single dimension characters, in this case "privileged".

    I think most of us seem to be defining ourselves as privileged in some ways, no?

    I know I think I am in some ways (and not in some other ways that I overcame). Acknowledging that in some ways I am lucky doesn't seem negative.

    For me the key is to focus on not giving up in your own life, but also not assuming that because something came naturally to you (or was something you chose to work at or enjoyed working at or wanted to pursue or even felt like you HAD to pursue) doesn't mean that everyone would have been equally capable.

    I do think our expectations are often too low of others in general, so would agree with that argument, but I do think people have different natural capacities and how we are raised makes a big difference in what our capacities are too. That I saw people living in a particular way and valuing certain things (work, education), was helpful for me and I picked up related skills despite a really problematic upbringing in some other ways.

    I used to volunteer at a program aimed at helping kids from an underprivileged background get GEDs or jobs or both, and with the job thing it was amazing how they didn't often have the skills to SEE opportunities or to know how to get them. Teaching these skills was also possible, but they ARE skills/knowledge that is learned, things we learn from the people around us in many cases.

    I find the concept of privilege especially useless simply due to the subjective nature. Everyone is privileged and everyone is not privileged.

    Knowing what we now know of weight management I question the concept of things coming "naturally". Certainly there's a matter of interest in an area, but are elite athletes/academics a result of "natural" ability or a result of time and effort? Similar to the fallacy of naturally fat/thin, this is primarily driven by behavior and determination - the natural ability accounts for an extremely small percentage that only becomes perceptible when accompanied with supporting behavior.

    Negative people's expectations of others are lower than average. Positive people's expectations are higher than average. The question posed by the OP exposes people's view of the world and in that regard is a very helpful tool if it drives personal introspection.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    Ultimately, I think it means, since I haven't actually put my opinion in, that it's important to stay hungry. Hungry people are successful. Talent/circumstance/privilege have a role but not as big of a role as is commonly asserted.

    Look at Michael Phelps, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban, etc. And listen to them talk, they're hungry. And that hunger is what drives their success. The other driver of their success is that unless it's relevant, they don't look at other people. Michael Phelps may compare himself to Ryan Lochte, but he'll never compare himself to Usain Bolt. There's no point, and no benefit. Competition makes us stronger, but invalid comparison is just a distraction.

    Winners don't fear competition, they seek it out.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Ultimately, I think it means, since I haven't actually put my opinion in, that it's important to stay hungry. Hungry people are successful. Talent/circumstance/privilege have a role but not as big of a role as is commonly asserted.

    Look at Michael Phelps, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban, etc. And listen to them talk, they're hungry. And that hunger is what drives their success. The other driver of their success is that unless it's relevant, they don't look at other people. Michael Phelps may compare himself to Ryan Lochte, but he'll never compare himself to Usain Bolt. There's no point, and no benefit. Competition makes us stronger, but invalid comparison is just a distraction.

    Winners don't fear competition, they seek it out.

    I'm not saying that this applies to all of the men that you listed, but a lot of people who are successful in a grand way like this, they were often already in a position that favoured their dreams - whether it be that they knew someone who could help them or they had enough money to pursue what they wanted. But a lot of people aren't privy to being in those situations.

    Please explain how this position was favorable to Elon Musk's dreams:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-childhood-was-excruciating-2015-5
  • WorkerDrone83
    WorkerDrone83 Posts: 3,195 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I guess I'm really confused about the "opportunities" conversation.

    My mom introduced me to NHL hockey and the NY Rangers when I was a kid. I would literally dream of playing for the team, being a professional athlete. So is the idea that if I had just worked really hard, I could have been the NHL's first female player in 1992? That the reason there are now in 2017 still no female NHL players is because women just haven't worked hard enough? All those women who have played on the Olympic teams and continue to try to get at least a women's league going are failing because they haven't worked hard enough?

    If the goal is vague, like I want to get strong, or personal best motivated, like I want to get faster... then sure you can accomplish anything you want if you work hard enough. But there are plenty of specific goals that specific individuals will never have a realistic opportunity to accomplish, even if they work themselves into the ground.

    That's a good point, but I think it could be argued that no, they didn't work hard enough. Or they weren't directing their hard work into the right place. Apparently someone did though because there is a national women's hockey league. HQ'd in NY, actually.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    Ultimately, I think it means, since I haven't actually put my opinion in, that it's important to stay hungry. Hungry people are successful. Talent/circumstance/privilege have a role but not as big of a role as is commonly asserted.

    Look at Michael Phelps, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban, etc. And listen to them talk, they're hungry. And that hunger is what drives their success. The other driver of their success is that unless it's relevant, they don't look at other people. Michael Phelps may compare himself to Ryan Lochte, but he'll never compare himself to Usain Bolt. There's no point, and no benefit. Competition makes us stronger, but invalid comparison is just a distraction.

    Winners don't fear competition, they seek it out.

    I'm not saying that this applies to all of the men that you listed, but a lot of people who are successful in a grand way like this, they were often already in a position that favoured their dreams - whether it be that they knew someone who could help them or they had enough money to pursue what they wanted. But a lot of people aren't privy to being in those situations.

    I actually selected them because with the exception of Elon Musk, none of them started in a particularly advantaged situation.

    But, it's easy to see privilege instead of hard work as the background for success.

    "I'm not saying that this applies to all any of the men that you listed"

    FIFY