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What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?
Replies
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I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.4
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
You think try your hardest and never give up is defeatist?8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Someone getting anxiety over a simple saying does not make a saying bad. It means the person needs help.
How is saying never give up any better? I should keep trying to get in the NHL until the day I die?
I like words. Words are important. The words we choose and the emphasis behind them can lift people up or put people down. They can empower the status quo or break through it. In this thread alone, this saying has sparked controversy and debate. It's not just about the saying or the phrasing and it would be naive to boil this down to just one simple phrase. The thoughts behind the words and what they convey to others can be powerful. Why use a cliche that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone and that some people find to be negative if you can find words that convey your meaning better?7 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
What?1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
What?
Wot? lol. I don't get what you're not getting.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
I like words. Words are important. The words we choose and the emphasis behind them can lift people up or put people down. They can empower the status quo or break through it. In this thread alone, this saying has sparked controversy and debate. It's not just about the saying or the phrasing and it would be naive to boil this down to just one simple phrase. The thoughts behind the words and what they convey to others can be powerful. Why use a cliche that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone and that some people find to be negative if you can find words that convey your meaning better?
But how is saying never give up better than you can do anything? Either is bad advice if it turns out to be something truly impossible.1 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »
I disagree with this; if there was a female hockey player who could play in the NHL it would be a tremendous draw (I believe that there have been female goalies at the lower minor league levels and the fan support was huge). The reason why they aren't in the NHL isn't because of bias or marketing, it is because female players are not as large, fast, or strong as the males.
As evidence - Manon Rheaume:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume
I was at the exhibition game when she played and the arena was filled to capacity - in large to see Manon.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
But how is saying never give up better than you can do anything? Either is bad advice if it turns out to be something truly impossible.
Then choose different words. I know that you have the power to adjust your phrasing to say what you want. This debate is about who's trying harder or hardest, right? So why not try harder to convey your meaning instead of clinging to a cliche that's not going to say what you want it to say?2 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
How about "Try the impossible, you might just succeed."
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
But how is saying never give up better than you can do anything? Either is bad advice if it turns out to be something truly impossible.
Except that Edison and Tesla spent years trying and failing at the impossible until each succeeded at the same result with two divergent methods.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
I've always been a fan of: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."6 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »
Wot? lol. I don't get what you're not getting.
Alright, before I go any further I have to ask: Are we trying to understand each other or are you trying to score points? Because I have to say that it feels like you aren't listening to what I'm saying and I can't tell if that's me not being clear or you just looking for something to criticize.
But in general, I don't see how trying your hardest means that you wouldn't achieve something great or unexpected? I don't see that phrase as defeatist. And I'm having a hard time understanding how you go there unless you were trying to get there in an attempt to move the goalposts of this conversation yet again.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that Edison and Tesla spent years trying and failing at the impossible until each succeeded at the same result with two divergent methods.
Did everyone that never gave up achieve their goals?2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
I like that, though it is inherently untrue.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Did everyone that never gave up achieve their goals?
Do you believe that some goals are impossible or don't you? I'm having a hard time nailing down your actual opinion on the subject.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Then choose different words. I know that you have the power to adjust your phrasing to say what you want. This debate is about who's trying harder or hardest, right? So why not try harder to convey your meaning instead of clinging to a cliche that's not going to say what you want it to say?
The debate is about our feelings for the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you try hard enough'.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Yep. I'm a writer trying to get my first novel published and creative businesses are just as much about luck as they are about talent. I would love to be a NYT best-selling author one day. Is it impossible that I'll get there? Probably not. But the odds aren't good in my favor. I don't think it's pessimistic or insulting to say that this is a thing I want but it may never happen if the stars don't align in my favor. I could work non-stop towards this goal, let my health and mental well-being go to *kitten* trying to get it, and still not have that spark of pure luck hit me. So instead I work towards it the best that I can, I take care of myself, I enjoy hobbies and the company of friends, I keep my day job, and I accept that some things don't happen for everyone. I can take myself as far as I can take myself, but some things are out of my hands.
I agree. I'm a professional flutist with a B.Music degree. Out of everyone I went to school with maybe 2-3 now play in professional ensembles. The ones who are still involved in music mostly are freelance performers and/or have a private music studio or teach in schools. Connections make a big difference as well. Who you studied with surprisingly opens (or closes) doors. I studied with someone in high school who had a bad reputation as being a jerk (it was true. He was very emotionally abusive to me) and it hurt my chances pre university. I was even told after the fact that my university usually never accepts anyone with him (audition is more important than grades to get in) so I was lucky. I have never and will never get to play in a professional symphony (flute competition is insane as there are so many flutists for very little jobs) but before I was ill I played many gigs as a freelancer. I'm one of those that didn't naturally have the talent (if I had to do one of those which instrument is best for you based on physical attributes tests they do I would definitely not have been given flute as my jaw structure is completely wrong for it) but I had the passion and worked incredibly hard to the point of major over use injuries. I doubt if I worked harder that I would have ever gotten into one without getting a break or connections or anything.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Do you believe that some goals are impossible or don't you? I'm having a hard time nailing down your actual opinion on the subject.
Yes of course.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
I've always been a fan of: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
/agree Anything that ends up raising the bar and as @stanmann571 put it - "Stay hungry"
The underlying division in this thread seems to be a perception of lowering expectations based upon ad absurdum/straw-man examples and raising the bar.3 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
I don't see that as defeatist at all.
In fact, recognizing that some things are worthwhile even if you will never get part of what you want (a best-selling novel or a Booker Prize or a seat on the CSO or to play quarterback for the Bears (not that anyone would reasonably want that!)) is IMO mature. Doesn't mean don't try or do your best or achieve.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The debate is about our feelings for the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you try hard enough'.
My feelings are that it's a cliche that feels empowering to some people and doesn't to others. When I'm trying to lift someone up I try to avoid phrases that are 1. trite and 2. just as likely to make them feel bad as it is to make them feel good. Your feelings seem to be that if someone doesn't find the phrase empowering they need "help" and everyone should just use whatever inaccurate cliches they want as long as they feel good with no concern for others. Is that about right?3 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
I've always been a fan of: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
Yeah, that's a good one.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
My feelings are that it's a cliche that feels empowering to some people and doesn't to others. When I'm trying to lift someone up I try to avoid phrases that are 1. trite and 2. just as likely to make them feel bad as it is to make them feel good. Your feelings seem to be that if someone doesn't find the phrase empowering they need "help" and everyone should just use whatever inaccurate cliches they want as long as they feel good with no concern for others. Is that about right?
Now you are just trying to bait me I think. You know perfectly well I never suggested anything even close to that.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Now you are just trying to bait me I think. You know perfectly well I never suggested anything even close to that.
Honestly, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. You've made a lot of one-line statements in this debate and I honestly cannot narrow down whether you think this is a good phrase or a bad one. I included the message I've taken from your posts so far in the hope that you can correct or expand any points that I'm not getting.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Honestly, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. You've made a lot of one-line statements in this debate and I honestly cannot narrow down whether you think this is a good phrase or a bad one. I included the message I've taken from your posts so far in the hope that you can correct or expand any points that I'm not getting.
I don't have a problem with the phrase. I'm sure some hear it and think "Yeah, right." and others find it inspiring and likely most fall somewhere in between. I think this of just about every phrase.
Since we're clearing things up, how exactly does my saying someone getting anxiety over a simple phrase needs help equate to my thinking everyone that doesn't find the phrase empowering needs "help"?1 -
As evidence - Manon Rheaume:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume
I was at the exhibition game when she played and the arena was filled to capacity - in large to see Manon.
Yep, it was a draw for one game and it was a big publicity stunt that got her answering questions about getting her nails done and a Playboy offer she turned down. It also led to discussions about the ridiculousness of women competing in a men's league. About ruining team chemistry and how the male athletes would be at a disadvantage if more women got in because they would be afraid of hurting them. And it would be a waste because the women would only play a few years before they decided to start a family anyway. And where would they change into their uniforms? Not exactly a glowing endorsement for how ready most sports fans were to accept co-ed leagues.
Cam Newton's recent amusement that a woman was interested in routes comes to mind, and based on the dialogue I hear among sports fans and pundits about the WBNA, I don't personally believe that has changed much. Maybe that's just in my little corner of the world though!
Eta: I agree that even the elite female athlete would be at a physical disadvantage in a league like the NHL. Suggesting that would in fact be an impossible goal, no matter how hard she worked
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I don't have a problem with the phrase. I'm sure some hear it and think "Yeah, right." and others find it inspiring and likely most fall somewhere in between. I think this of just about every phrase.
Since we're clearing things up, how exactly does my saying someone getting anxiety over a simple phrase needs help equate to my thinking everyone that doesn't find the phrase empowering needs "help"?
I'm in the middle of writing a pep talk for a group of writers who will be undertaking the challenge to write a novel in a month next month. So what people find empowering vs. what they find discouraging is much on my mind today. In my experience, based on the people I've talked to who undertake various challenges -- whether it's writing or a new degree or weight loss or whatever -- things that people don't find empower tend to create some degree of anxiety when they're said by someone they perceive to have experience or authority in that particular field. I tried to bring up the anxiety as a part of what makes phrasing like this so useless when you're trying to empower someone who sees you as a figure they'll listen to and you brushed it off as simply them needing help. If I can stop someone from feeling anxiety by being realistic, avoiding platitudes, and telling them the truth about the world, then I'm going to do that and be careful how I phrase things. Your post read to me as though you felt that anyone who finds something to be not empowering, and thus likely feels some anxiety after it's said to them, needs help.2 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
I'm in the middle of writing a pep talk for a group of writers who will be undertaking the challenge to write a novel in a month next month. So what people find empowering vs. what they find discouraging is much on my mind today. In my experience, based on the people I've talked to who undertake various challenges -- whether it's writing or a new degree or weight loss or whatever -- things that people don't find empower tend to create some degree of anxiety when they're said by someone they perceive to have experience or authority in that particular field. I tried to bring up the anxiety as a part of what makes phrasing like this so useless when you're trying to empower someone who sees you as a figure they'll listen to and you brushed it off as simply them needing help. If I can stop someone from feeling anxiety by being realistic, avoiding platitudes, and telling them the truth about the world, then I'm going to do that and be careful how I phrase things. Your post read to me as though you felt that anyone who finds something to be not empowering, and thus likely feels some anxiety after it's said to them, needs help.
Just to be clear, do you think this simple little phrase causes many/most people anxiety? Like that would be a common enough thing to make the phrase something that should never be said?
And do you think a figure they'll listen to saying 'never give up' could never cause these same people anxiety?1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Since we're clearing things up, how exactly does my saying someone getting anxiety over a simple phrase needs help equate to my thinking everyone that doesn't find the phrase empowering needs "help"?
As I think the anxiety comment was directed at my comment, note that I was being sarcastic. It was more so to put into words the following feelings:
When people are told they can do anything, and when they realize they actually can't, then they have internal struggles that they need to deal with.
The way a person deals with these issues defines who they are and how they live their life.3 -
I also use similar phases with my children, in tones and discussion of encouragement. Children need to keep their eyes open to possibilities and their developing minds need to be encouraged to seek out the possibilities. They have not yet set their adult life in motion.
I also have a teenager with disabilities. Not mental, but physical. He dreamed of military service and as a parent, it was important to redirect his attention to the option of government service in other ways (like DOD for example) without crushing dreams. His very high intellect can be appreciated in places his hearing impairment could be dangerous...He needed to know he could still execute the idea of 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' in ways he could not see.
I teach adults with advanced degrees for my job...and this is not generally an adult learner friendly phrase. Many adults have worked hard to get where they are and the phrase tends to imply a lack of appreciation for their personal struggle. We are no longer the wide-eyed children full of possibilities. We have all made choices to go certain directions that pave our road.
There is a time in everyone's life where these phrases make perfect sense...but I think targeting phrases to specific goals is more appropriate for adults. Like "you can make that next weight goal...you got this!". Adults can have lots of desires...
My husband wants to live in the play boy mansion...the idea that if he works hard enough he can achieve that will never be embraced by his wife! His road has been paved with things that will not change. 13
This discussion has been closed.
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