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What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?
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I'm finding this funny as kids are typically the most brutally honest of any age - seconded only by the elderly, who have learned not to care what others think. Yet the consensus seems to be that these statements would be stated to children as they have not yet learned to limit themselves.
Also interesting how certain people tend to think of their personal experiences in expanding dimensions - personal struggles, obstacles overcome, tales of triumph and misery...but think of others as single dimension characters, in this case "privileged".
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It is amazing the amount of privilege you can attain if 1) your parents took an interest in you and raised you well (race/class neutral) 2) you work hard in school/work (race/class neutral)10
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stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
again, agree to disagree...2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
again, agree to disagree...
LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.
3 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Intelligence is probably a privilege. I know I am sometimes unfair (when frustrated with someone else) in attributing to "not trying" or "intentionally being obtuse" things that sometimes just are a matter of intelligence or aptitude. I loved school and currently have a job that tends to appeal to people who loved school (uses many of the same skills) and saying "well, anyone else could have the exact same job I do, if they'd just bothered" is not actually true. Which of course isn't that important, since there are many other ways to make a living.
estherdragon's point about it being so frustrating to work at something you know you will only be mediocre at best at is worth considering too. I'm bad at a lot of team sports in part because I did not work at them, but I did not work at them because I believe I would never have gotten more than eh at them and the work is unpleasant to me. Finding something I enjoy (running and biking and other solitary sports, not team things) was important for me. Similarly, I enjoy singing but am not musical, so haven't really worked at getting good or fooled myself I can. I sing privately, instead. ;-)
There are things I wish I'd worked harder at despite a seeming lack of aptitude (learning another language), but it always comes with a tradeoff.
So out of curiously, I can see disagreeing with this and would be interested in exchanging ideas, but how is it woo? Seems wimpy to me not to address it if you want to make an argument that it is.1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
You've got me. But many times in my 40 years, I've been told that I got where I am through some sort of privilege.3 -
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Bry_Lander wrote: »
Agree. I think the saying is, "talent beats hard work until talent works hard..." Or somehting like that.
Not really sure what the saying is, but I agree with you. I tell my son all the time, do your best. Don't worry about what others are doing, you focus on what you are doing and give it your all...2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
again, agree to disagree...
LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.
Really?
I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't we just leave it at that...?1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
It's not, of course. But having certain advantages can make a difference. It will be harder for someone who comes from a culture of lazy quitters to not be a lazy quitter than for someone who comes from a culture of hard work and success.2 -
The impact of this phrase on me was basically an anxiety disorder.
On the positive side, for society as a whole, some really good music came from realizing the flawed ideology that this phrase is based on. Grunge and 90's rock is so much better than what I am hearing on the radio now.
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I'm finding this funny as kids are typically the most brutally honest of any age - seconded only by the elderly, who have learned not to care what others think. Yet the consensus seems to be that these statements would be stated to children as they have not yet learned to limit themselves.
Also interesting how certain people tend to think of their personal experiences in expanding dimensions - personal struggles, obstacles overcome, tales of triumph and misery...but think of others as single dimension characters, in this case "privileged".
I think most of us seem to be defining ourselves as privileged in some ways, no?
I know I think I am in some ways (and not in some other ways that I overcame). Acknowledging that in some ways I am lucky doesn't seem negative.
For me the key is to focus on not giving up in your own life, but also not assuming that because something came naturally to you (or was something you chose to work at or enjoyed working at or wanted to pursue or even felt like you HAD to pursue) doesn't mean that everyone would have been equally capable.
I do think our expectations are often too low of others in general, so would agree with that argument, but I do think people have different natural capacities and how we are raised makes a big difference in what our capacities are too. That I saw people living in a particular way and valuing certain things (work, education), was helpful for me and I picked up related skills despite a really problematic upbringing in some other ways.
I used to volunteer at a program aimed at helping kids from an underprivileged background get GEDs or jobs or both, and with the job thing it was amazing how they didn't often have the skills to SEE opportunities or to know how to get them. Teaching these skills was also possible, but they ARE skills/knowledge that is learned, things we learn from the people around us in many cases.2 -
I think I've led an exceedingly privileged life. We weren't rich but we were never poor, even if we were broke. Large family so there was always someone around to help. Safe neighborhood. Good friends. Lots of love and encouragement.
Someone once commented to me how well I'd done in life considering everything I've overcome and I was honestly dumbfounded. I thought a lot about it and I suppose if you listed the negatives in my life it could sound kind of bad, but I have always felt like I have led a blessed life. Perspective is a funny thing.7 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
again, agree to disagree...
LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.
Really?
I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't we just leave it at that...?
Because we're not talking about YOUR opinion, we're talking about other people's opinion. AND you're asserting... belligerently and erroneously, that no such opinion exists.6 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I haven't read any of the responses but honestly, when I hear those phrases being used I just think that they're often unrealistic and they tend to make people shoot for the stars when there's no hope in getting there.
I'm very practical.
You never know until you try. And if you're going to try, do your absolute best...4 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Agree to disagree...
Just because it isn't YOUR opinion doesn't mean it's not a prevalent or dominant opinion.
again, agree to disagree...
LOL, You're disagreeing that people hold to an opinion. And you're incessant and belligerent about it.
Really?
I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't we just leave it at that...?
Because we're not talking about YOUR opinion, we're talking about other people's opinion. AND you're asserting... belligerently and erroneously, that no such opinion exists.
if you say so...2 -
In order . . .
1. to me it means nothing. except that the person speaking is not thinking deeply enough for their thoughts to be worth anything.
2. simple answer: i find most of the people say stuff like this sound brain-dead to me. more complex answer: i find it negative, for a small group of reasons.
a. it's stupid. as you pointed out, manifestly not true
b. in the usual contexts where it comes up it's dismissive, in an unpleasantly indirect way
c. it's misdirective as well. assuming we're talking about health/weightloss/fitness here, those things are not even really about hard work. hard work is just a component of the whole picture.
d. and finally, it's punitive. it sets the hearer up in this adversarial position with respect to their own goals. like not being there is a thing that has to be beaten with 'hard'ness and 'work'. not something that i agree with.
e. i also find a great many of the people who say stuff like this to be intellectually/socially dishonest as well. this allows them to pull the 'just trying to be inspirational' card when challenged, rather than confronting any new information about the challenge but that's by the way.
3. i'd agree with anyone who thinks it promotes/enables/validates an elitist kind of attitude among those who like to live by and hand out remarks of this kind.4 -
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