Anyone read the latest research on Keto by Alan Aragon?
Replies
-
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
clearly- because that's the only way to eat carbs.
Binge- or poverty.
Aren't we glad she's here to show us the way?8 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
Lol! I'm an equal opportunity binger. I can go to town on any of the 3 macros!11 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
LOL- I'm with @mmapags - I'm an equal opportunity binger. I want them all. People are like "sweet or savor"
*kitten* DON'T MAKE ME CHOSE! TEAM BOTH!6 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
LOL- I'm with @mmapags - I'm an equal opportunity binger. I want them all. People are like "sweet or savor"
*kitten* DON'T MAKE ME CHOSE! TEAM BOTH!
Me too. I lean more towards savoury but if I'm in a sweet mood outta my way while I hit the dessert and chocolate aisles.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
Lol! I'm an equal opportunity binger. I can go to town on any of the 3 macros!
I dont binge on meats because i call that normal. Why only eat 9oz when you can eat 15 or more! I love meats!!!3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
Lol! I'm an equal opportunity binger. I can go to town on any of the 3 macros!
I dont binge on meats because i call that normal. Why only eat 9oz when you can eat 15 or more! I love meats!!!
I lean towards the fattier Italian cured meats if I'm really going to town. Boy does that add up fast.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
LOL- I'm with @mmapags - I'm an equal opportunity binger. I want them all. People are like "sweet or savor"
*kitten* DON'T MAKE ME CHOSE! TEAM BOTH!
Me too. I lean more towards savoury but if I'm in a sweet mood outta my way while I hit the dessert and chocolate aisles.
Hell yes- big old steak- huge pile of greens.
Followed by a brownie and wine?
GIMMIE.ALL.OF.IT.IN.MAI.MOUF.
3 -
Just gonna say this once......BACON!0
-
And, to make this post total "food porn"......BLUE CHEESE!2
-
Bacon is actually not a calorie bomb unless you really really like to eat loads of it. Makes me thirsty just thinking about it.
Blue cheese though. We have a deli here that has good booze, good charcuterie and good cheese. Head down and scurry past 95% of the time. And then the owner went and opened a restaurant called Salt and Pickle. So good booze, good charcuterie, good cheese and good in house made pickles. It's a good job I don't love dining alone or I'd be in big trouble!1 -
I usually eat half the pack of bacon (like eight slices) at a time. I make it a calorie bomb! :-)1
-
VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
Lol! I'm an equal opportunity binger. I can go to town on any of the 3 macros!
Same. When I binge, if it isn't nailed down and it's something fast and easy to eat, I binge on it.
Heck, I binged on egg salad and chicken legs when I low carbed. I'd go out to the grocery store and buy those family packs of chicken legs (2 of them), bake them up to have handy snacks and just gorge myself on them.
0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Bacon is actually not a calorie bomb unless you really really like to eat loads of it. Makes me thirsty just thinking about it.
Blue cheese though. We have a deli here that has good booze, good charcuterie and good cheese. Head down and scurry past 95% of the time. And then the owner went and opened a restaurant called Salt and Pickle. So good booze, good charcuterie, good cheese and good in house made pickles. It's a good job I don't love dining alone or I'd be in big trouble!
When I was a teen, I worked in a nursing home and on weekends, I worked the morning shift serving breakfast in the dining hall.
There'd be a big industrial pan of bacon in the kitchen and we were allowed to snatch as much as we wanted from it.
Unlimited bacon. In huge mounds. Already cooked and waiting. I always embarrassed myself, no matter how furtive I thought I was being.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »So, like the obsessed ketoers, shaky sites. I agree that it's mostly nonsense, but the sites on both sides are.. questionable. You can woo me all you like but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. Anti-ketoers hate it and demonized it while ketoers evangelize it. I beginning to think you people just like to find something to fight about..like an old nagging couple. There needs to be a neutral group that can untangle this mess and show both sides that it isn't magic but it isn't ridiculous either. If it don't work for you.. try something else.. don't hate on those it works for. If it works for you, awesome, don't add pseudoscience to try and make it look better. Just leave it at CICO for those who binge on carbs.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this but i missed it first read around. Are you saying that for those of us who don't low carb we're by default bingeing on carbs?
Ironically, I binge on fats. Like eat the whole block of cheese.
LOL- I'm with @mmapags - I'm an equal opportunity binger. I want them all. People are like "sweet or savor"
*kitten* DON'T MAKE ME CHOSE! TEAM BOTH!
Me too. I lean more towards savoury but if I'm in a sweet mood outta my way while I hit the dessert and chocolate aisles.
Hell yes- big old steak- huge pile of greens.
Followed by a brownie and wine?
GIMMIE.ALL.OF.IT.IN.MAI.MOUF.
After reading this I am a little aroused. Is that so wrong??!!1 -
The keto diet for getting cut has been around for 70 years+.
Nothing new about it.
Vince Gironda used it to get ripped for bodybuilding contests in the 1940s.
Eat meat and eggs only. Eat only very small amounts of complex carbs.
Buy keto sticks at the pharmacy and test your urine to see if you are in ketosis.
It does get you ripped but eventually drives you bonkers.
_______________2 -
The keto diet for getting cut has been around for 70 years+.
Nothing new about it.
Vince Gironda used it to get ripped for bodybuilding contests in the 1940s.
Eat meat and eggs only. Eat only very small amounts of complex carbs.
Buy keto sticks at the pharmacy and test your urine to see if you are in ketosis.
It does get you ripped but eventually drives you bonkers.
_______________
It only works if you create a calorie deficit though. The same as all diets.7 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »I usually eat half the pack of bacon (like eight slices) at a time. I make it a calorie bomb! :-)
That's not a binge, just a meal.
3 -
It actually does fit in to my schedule.....so, no binge there! 0
-
What you all think of it? I am personally not surprised by the results, I kind of expect it infact.
Keto shouldn't be used for aesthetic reasons. It's a great diet for people with diabetes and other diseases involving kidneys and helps with epilepsy..not sure correct me if I'm wrong
Also, it's a great diet for those who are overweight from someone who was obese. The keto diet flattens you out quicker due to the lack of carbs. Which may motivate others to continue the diet even though the weightloss might be the same or even less. Also, holding less water helps battle inflammation.
There are benefits to the diet. Not everyone is built the same so putting someone on 300g carb 200g protein 80g fat will not work for another individual.
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
2 -
Fascinating stuff, thanks!0
-
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
3 -
orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
In all the bolded instances above. the statement many should be changed to "some". There are a good number of people who don't feel that way and I am one of them. I don't feel better, I'm not more satisfied and it doesn't work better for me. I am not alone and I don't think "most" people would agree with your statements. This is where keto proponents start sounding like fanatics. When they use these sweeping generalities. Great that it works for you. It is faulty to project that to "most" people and editorialize on the objective data presented.4 -
orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
In all the bolded instances above. the statement many should be changed to "some". There are a good number of people who don't feel that way and I am one of them. I don't feel better, I'm not more satisfied and it doesn't work better for me. I am not alone and I don't think "most" people would agree with your statements. This is where keto proponents start sounding like fanatics. When they use these sweeping generalities. Great that it works for you. It is faulty to project that to "most" people and editorialize on the objective data presented.
Exactly. Keto doesn't have an objective "edge", just a subjective one. What people find satiating varies. I personally don't find fat satiating, so keto would make me miserable.
My experience is that my arthritis does not respond to dietary intervention and I am just fine eating grains and sugar. The only positive intervention that I've noticed having any affect on my arthritis is exercise.
I often wonder how many keto proponents would do well on a more moderate carb approach of 100-150 grams of carb a day to allow for a more varied and nutritious diet. It would allow for more vegetables, they could still eliminate grains and starches if desired. I understand keto is the hot thing right now, but it just seems so unnecessarily restrictive for a vast majority of people who head straight to it. A lot of the issues they want to address could be addressed with plain old low carb.3 -
Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all10
-
KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
Nice. Because we don't extol the virtues of magical keto we aren't smart. Moving on.
This isn't necessarily about debate, the OP was sharing the first part in a multi-part review of various studies into keto and its varying effects. It wasn't at any point meant to be a them vs us, it's an objective view. Everything was just dandy until those who practice keto came in telling us we're wrong and demonising it. Which nobody is. We're just saying you do you boo but it isn't for everyone, not even most.
I know a lot more people who find starch satiating than I do fat. Me included. I just had a melting middle burger with a brioche bun. I am stuffed to the gills on just that. The starch is a major component because I had the same sans bun (because I forgot to buy them) so had it with just some non-starchy veg. Nowhere near as full.
It can help with health conditions in some people, IR and epilepsy being two of them. But most people aren't IR or epileptic.
And finally. I like starch, if I were to keto I'd go round the twist fantasising about bread and potatoes and some desserts. Not even things I eat an especially large amount of but I thoroughly enjoy them and see no reason to exclude them from my diet for no other reason than it's allegedly better in some way. Plus carbs fuel my pretty strenuous workouts.3 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
What are you on about? Why would someone who knows fat isn't satiating even try keto?
FTR? I did low carb, just not keto, for ten years.
Low carbing did nothing for my arthritis, in fact, I was worse then than I was now.
Personally, I find that finding a sustainable lifestyle and adhering to it is what is the determining factor in how smart someone is.
Anyone who'd be miserable on any sort of diet would be pretty foolish trying to stick with it.
If a person who's sated by fat tried to be a high carb vegan, that would be a pretty tough task as well.
There's not a single objectively best diet protocol in terms of satiety.
This research review (which is the subject of the thread) so far covered how keto impacts certain areas of training. There will be further parts of the review released relating, for example, to keto's impact on disease. It will be interesting to see the findings and what the current research supports from an objective standpoint.5 -
KarblessKreature wrote: »Flame war lol cause “I often wonder” if all the keto na sayers have actually followed a well formulated keto diet? Or just tried for a week or two. Doesn’t really matter cause people like to argue/debate why they’re ways the best. And no one like being told what they're doing isn’t the most effective. But it’s good cause it starts the sharing of info. And the smarter people will use all available tools at they’re disposal to increase ones health. I at least try every sides concepts if I believe they will be beneficial to me after doing the research. And then find a way to implement them into my custom lifestyle. Later and luck to all
My choice to not go keto has nothing to do with my intelligence.6 -
orangejulius wrote: »
Calories in < calories out will result in weight loss no matter what you put in your body but putting the right things in your body matter it's the difference of building your house with straw or bricks.
Sure, all compared diets may work essentially the same when perfectly followed (cal in<cal out), but where Keto has the edge (for me and many others) is the diet is highly satiating. After initial adjustment you simply aren't as hungry, what you eat is very satisfying, and (if you aren't a fake baker or using a ton of artificial sweetners in everything) you lose your cravings for sweets. So while it may not "work better", it is easier to stick to for a lot of people.
Also, many people feel better when they eat ketogenically. My arthritis is much improved when I am not eating grains and sugars. I also sleep better and have less brain fog. YMMV
I'm glad that you have what works for you figured out. It's freeing, isn't it?
For me, I find that a good exercise routine does the same things regarding sleep, brain fog, and improved aches and pains (old neck injury with inflammation being a big factor in flare ups). I didn't find keto satiating, although I didn't give it a long go. I find balance satiating, because I feel less deprived about my food selections. What I found to lessen the cravings for sweet treats most effective, was to stop trying to ban them.
Those are my experiences and thoughts. Of course, as is the case for you, others have different experiences.1 -
Never said keto was the smart way. Thats how you, who probably doesn’t like keto, reacted to what I wrote. Reread it. And for low carb vs keto it’s a whole different ball game my friend. Like I did said you didn’t even give keto a proper try. Most processed carbs cause some type of inflammation in the body. Can’t fight the science. And like I said I will try anything that will better my long term health and do a proper n=1 on it. I was fine even flourishing on a carb based diet. Keto was an attempt to help my sciatica issue (from too much sports, injury in my 20’s and genetics it seems) wanting to lean out a bit and gain lean mass(~1# a month). Didn’t like going thru a bulking cycle and having to cut after ward. So a super slow bulk for me from now on. Worked wonders on those accounts and seem to be chugging along just fine. Like I said you dismissed keto cause your mentally hook on carbs, body treats them like a drug. You never even really tried keto and look down upon it. I’ll be switching to a CKD at around year mark after staring keto to see how that works for me. And I’m sure I’ll which ever works best I’ll stick with. But like I said do you. Later and pass the butter.12
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 176K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions